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So from the 8 lores, which do you find the best.

Lore of tzeentch totally awesome why not all lores?

For the 8 I would say shadow for woc.

Lore of beasts for ogres signature spell rocks.

cowpow16 wrote:Lore of tzeentch totally awesome why not all lores?
For the 8 I would say shadow for woc.
Lore of beasts for ogres signature spell rocks.

If I had to pick a single lore, and use it in every army, I'd take death.
The sniper spells can deal with enemy characters very effectively, the two hexes (-3 Leadership and -1S/T to a huge area) are game winning. Just the threat of purple sun often lets a lesser spell go off.
Then to top it all off, you're generating more power dice with kills.

On ogres, I tried beast a few times, but I found that 7+ for +1 Strength or 8+ for +1 toughness is a lot better than 10+ for both.
That's not even considering the 14+/16+ to have those spells hit every friendly near you.
I don't see a lot of death stars too often, so super buffing 1 unit isn't as powerful as a medium buff over an area.
When I do see death stars, I make them cry; I'm running 8 units of 10 gnoblars nows.

-Matt

My friend said that it was Metal, is there any backing for this or is that just him?

Lore of Beasts every time.

But I play Beastmen, so I may be biased

Well...

Well put Grey Templar, well put

That is quite excellent grey

Shadow is super nasty IMO and metal is good against brets and woc with their armor but other than that its not amazing.

What's magic?

Playing with Dwarfs, I can say the lore that makes my head explode is Shadow. Seems like you can back someone into a terrible position, and they can just Mindrazor right out of it.

Pit, enfeebling, withering, and miasma are all real solid too.

Whats your opinion on the pit vs dwellers debate?

HawaiiMatt wrote:

cowpow16 wrote:Lore of tzeentch totally awesome why not all lores?
For the 8 I would say shadow for woc.
Lore of beasts for ogres signature spell rocks.

If I had to pick a single lore, and use it in every army, I'd take death.
The sniper spells can deal with enemy characters very effectively, the two hexes (-3 Leadership and -1S/T to a huge area) are game winning. Just the threat of purple sun often lets a lesser spell go off.
Then to top it all off, you're generating more power dice with kills.

On ogres, I tried beast a few times, but I found that 7+ for +1 Strength or 8+ for +1 toughness is a lot better than 10+ for both.
That's not even considering the 14+/16+ to have those spells hit every friendly near you.
I don't see a lot of death stars too often, so super buffing 1 unit isn't as powerful as a medium buff over an area.
When I do see death stars, I make them cry; I'm running 8 units of 10 gnoblars nows.

-Matt

Can death snipe out a character from a unit without a look out sir roll?

schadenfreude wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:

cowpow16 wrote:Lore of tzeentch totally awesome why not all lores?
For the 8 I would say shadow for woc.
Lore of beasts for ogres signature spell rocks.

If I had to pick a single lore, and use it in every army, I'd take death.
The sniper spells can deal with enemy characters very effectively, the two hexes (-3 Leadership and -1S/T to a huge area) are game winning. Just the threat of purple sun often lets a lesser spell go off.
Then to top it all off, you're generating more power dice with kills.

On ogres, I tried beast a few times, but I found that 7+ for +1 Strength or 8+ for +1 toughness is a lot better than 10+ for both.
That's not even considering the 14+/16+ to have those spells hit every friendly near you.
I don't see a lot of death stars too often, so super buffing 1 unit isn't as powerful as a medium buff over an area.
When I do see death stars, I make them cry; I'm running 8 units of 10 gnoblars nows.

-Matt

Can death snipe out a character from a unit without a look out sir roll?

Death has two Sniper spells atm where you pick a target model and make them take wounds with no armour saves.

It's a very powerful sniper lore and very good for picking out characters like Teclis (if you can get it off)

my current favorite Lore is also Death
the combination of terror and Fear with Doom and Darkness make them much more reliable. Perfect for crushing opposition

Depends heavily on the army.

Dark Elves, for example, excell under Lore of Shadow. Bonus points for a secondary caster with Dark Lore; there are some wonderful synergies between the two lores.

For over-the-top action, DE double Lore of Death casters keep generating power dice above and beyond the already sick PD generation ability of the DE.

Bretonnia, on the other hand, works well with Lore of Heavens. Some nice hexes and augments, together with some damaging spells.

The also tend to live (and die) on the strenght of their characters. For that there is nothing like Lore of Beasts - imagine a unit of 6 paladins without magic/vows, with Pann's Pelt (+3T) and Savage Beast (+3 S and A). That's 6 T7 2+ armor, 5+ ward (blessing) models giving a total of 31 S9 attacks on the charge with lances. What steam tank?

But can't you only be affected by 1 Augment? Meaning either Pann's or Savage Beast?

More to the point, I like the Lore of Metal. While it's utility isn't always solid, I find if you have a model that can choose spells there are some spells that are always great.

Lore of Heavens, your general was in range

TheAngrySquig wrote:Whats your opinion on the pit vs dwellers debate?

Well, Pit is obviously more deadly to low I armies(Dwarves, Ogres, Lizardmen) while Dwellers is more deadly to low Str armies(everyone who's not Ogres, WoC(warriors, nor maruaders), and Lizardmen)

Pit has a slightly lower damage potential because its a template that can scatter.

Dwellers effects the entire unit, so a large horde of Spearmen or State Troops is losing ~1/2 the unit while against Pit they might have 10-15 dudes under the template and only lose 5-8 guys.

Lore of Death with Hagtree Fetish for me which allows rerolls to wound against a unit in the magic phase. Yes this works with Carress of Laniph and Fate of Bjuna those are to wound spells.

Top two definitely

1) Shadow - long range spells, two super ultimate spells (Pit of Shades is an ultimate spell and so is Okkam's Mindrazor.)
The signature debuff is great -d3 ballistic skill can cancel a whole archer unit.
Mindrazor can make a combat an auto-win. (30 Elf Spearmen getting 31 S8 attacks with rerolls to hit before enemy can remove an enemy unit of 40-50 troops easily or destroy a super unit.)
Pit of Shades can instantly annihilate initiative 2 and initiative 3 units. The pendulum cannonball could also devastate a whole unit of knights/ogres.

-D3 strength or -D3 toughness can make a whole unit and all heroes inside of it into weaklings.
Shadow just has like 4-5 amazingly good spells that handle any situation, unlike other lores like Life which usually only 1 or 2 are useful.

2) Death - best at actively killing annoying models like War Hydras and expensive characters hiding in units.

Spirit leech's unmodified leadership means that it's a monster-slaying move. What Leadership is a War Hydra? 6. Ancient Stegadon? 6. Engine of the Gods? 6. Orc Wyvern? 6. Griffon? 7. Stonehorn or Thundertusk? 5. Doomwheel? 7.
If you use a Leadership 9-10 wizard to cast it, this means your basic spell usually does 3-5 wounds on a big monster ignoring their armor.
Caress and Bjuna both are back-ups for killing monsters and characters.

The nice thing about Death is it has a passive which can earn back several power dice if you do damage, letting you do even more.

It has two good debuffs (-3 Leadership and -1 toughness) which can break enemy units or make them lose combats.


I take shadow when I want a chance to turn my troops into combat gods. I take death when I want to kill annoying single models without anything their armor can do to save them.

Life and Shadow. One buffs units and one debuffs them. Both have a pretty nasty uber spell.
For Lizards, Light is pretty cool too. It's buffs remove our main weaknesses. (Low WS and I)

WHAAAGH! Magic!!! Gobbos throwing magic missiles! Orcs summoning giant, green feet from the sky! WHAAAGH!!!

Ok I admit, I am biased. So what?

death is pretty good, but after you snipe the characters, it loses alot of its ability.

i rate lores on their all comers, all turns usage.

but metal imho is the big winner in the basic 8.
no armor saves at all and flaming.

basic spell though a little high on the cast can devistate anything with a 1-3+ save.
1) permanent hex spell for -1 AS, initially this seems redundant since you want the armor save to wound. but if you have any shooting in your army reducing that expensive enemy unit from a 5 to a 6 save can be huge.
2) +1 to hit with all attacks and magic and AP, combined with the above spell now that heavy armor unit has no save.
3) +2 armor save whats not good about that
4) maybe the only iffy spell but that hero in a unit of calvary is gonna feel it.
5) -1 ws/bs/as this is a bit high cast imho, but changing that unit from 4 to 3 ws can be huge also pay attention that there is no minimum combo that with fear.
6) this is decent, its a good average unit killer spell, at only 15 to cast its easy to get off, and average 1/3 of the unit dead. with the bonus you get to make your opponent take tests.

For my Empire I never leave home without my Metal Wizard. Even if he's only got the signature spell, it helps out with heavily armoured units that my State Troops have trouble with (looking at you Chaos Knights). Plague of Rust is awesome as well. Enchanted Blades of Aiban makes my troops more accurate and gives them armour piercing, Glittering Robe gives them a better armour save, with Gehenna's I can try and single out an up-armoured character, Final Transmutation, while not as good as other super spells, does have the added bonus of having every unit around the target test for stupidity. Transmutation of Lead is the only one I'm kind of "meh" about. It really shines in conjunction with Enchanted Blades, but that's hard to pull off.

And as an added bonus, in addition to no armour saves allowed, all the attacks count as flaming. Goodbye Hydra on a 4+. All in all it really complements my list well and fills in almost all the tactical holes. If I go up against something with minimal armour I shoot for the hexes and augments. But most armies have at least ONE unit with a decent save.

I don't get the love for the metal direct damage.
20+ to do 2D6 hits?
I wouldn't call 4-6 wounds on 1+/3+ models really wrecking a unit. When somebody is tossing that, I always think how much worse it would be if they hit me with anything else that's in the 20+ neighborhood.



-Matt


Automatically Appended Next Post:

lixulana wrote:death is pretty good, but after you snipe the characters, it loses alot of its ability.

Of the 7 spells, death has 3 snipes, which are good against characters, but also good against warmachines, chariots, monsters, or really anything with 3 or more wounds.
Spirit leech on 7+ and Caress on 6+ are decent for just killing an ogre, kroxigor, or other 3 wound monstrous infantry. Easy to cast, and good shot at bonus power dice.

Doom and Darkness is awesome for breaking steadfast, and Soulblight can give your opponents entire army -1 Strength and -1Toughness.
The thing with Death is that you need a mobile caster to really make it pay off, and you need most of the lore to take advantage of both it's damage dealing and it's hexes.


-Matt

My personal favorite is fire. It might not be the best lore but it's direct and simple and I find quite effective at the tasks I give it.

Metal, Death and Shadow are also contenders for me but not as fun as Fire.

Its pretty much a tie between Lore of Light and Lore of Shadow for me.

Me, its a tie between lore of death/shadow. That is why i take both.

With my High Elves, I usually bounce back and forth between Shadow, Life, Light, and High magic. Although, I haven't really experimented much with the others, except with Heavens a little.

Thanks for all your help with this, but can someone explain the fire Lore Attribute. If another fire spell has hit it, it gets + to casting total? Is that right?

TheAngrySquig wrote:Thanks for all your help with this, but can someone explain the fire Lore Attribute. If another fire spell has hit it, it gets + to casting total? Is that right?

If your current fire spell target was already hit by a fire magic missile or direct damage, then you add +D3 to your casting total.
Lore of Fire can really play very differently than most lores.
You can have a very effective magic phase from 3 or 4 level 1 casters, instead of running the big level 4.
I went up against empire with 3 level 1's, a level 2, and a ruby ring.
4 channeling attempts, and once a hit gets hit, it's going to keep getting hit.

I wouldn't say fire is the most effective, but I do think it is a lot of fun.

-Matt

Question: does the Lore of Life attribute bring back removed models, or does it only affect multi-wound models that have lost a wound?