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Hi all,

I cannot tell if I like the necron praetorians or not. They are expensive for a jump infantry S5 AP1 weapon.
How does everyone else feel about them?

This is a rules question....how?

Sorry, I realize I did post this in the wrong place.

Moving to Tactics.

Don't bother.
Use them as conversion fodder for crypteks. The Rods of Covenants would make nice Staffs of Light I think.

I don't think they are. They lose a lot of firepower, when one of them goes down, and I really think you need to stick a Destroyer lord W/Orb with them to help maintain that.

Their biggest issue is their I2. Swinging after almost every dedicated close combat unit is pretty brutal, even with the shooting to help soften up an enemy. Just about any unit at the same points cost will just wipe the floor with them. The 1 Attack is also terrible, in any protracted combat. At least they do have Fearless, so they don't get swept.

I plan to give them a try, but on paper they are not looking worth their points cost, at all.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Don't bother.
Use them as conversion fodder for crypteks. The Rods of Covenants would make nice Staffs of Light I think.

Or any of the special staffs (e.g. Tremorstave). The codex doesn't really give any indication of how to model Cryptek gear, so yeah, I think this is the best way to go.

It looks like the Rods and Warscythes share the "rod" bit though (right?)...that would be unfortunate as we could use the extra Warscythes too.

I plan on giving them a try. The idea will be to use them with a unit of wraiths to provide a fast-moving assault group in my army. The wraiths serve to provide cover for the praetorians on the way into combat and lower enemy initiative once in an assault.

I think the praetorians and the lychguard can make some cool cryptecks with the deathmark heads.

ZombieJoe wrote:I think the praetorians and the lychguard can make some cool cryptecks with the deathmark heads.

Agreed. I think this will be my plan when I get mine in.

Actually, come to think of it I think that the praetorians are meant to be anti-termy.

Consider this - they have AP2 weapons that wound MEQs on a 3+, that also count as power weapons.
The Low ini wouldn't matter as termies generally have fists or hammers, and the power weapons would ignore their saves. Having only 1 attack wouldn't matter as termies come in small squads anyway.

Of course, the problem with this is that the praetorians don't have an invul save, meaning that if the termies are given a chance to retaliate...they're dead.

Just something to put forward.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

whigwam wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Don't bother.
Use them as conversion fodder for crypteks. The Rods of Covenants would make nice Staffs of Light I think.

Or any of the special staffs (e.g. Tremorstave). The codex doesn't really give any indication of how to model Cryptek gear, so yeah, I think this is the best way to go.

It looks like the Rods and Warscythes share the "rod" bit though (right?)...that would be unfortunate as we could use the extra Warscythes too.

Yeah I noticed that too. It is a pity, but I think most would go for the shields anyway.

Also, on the subject of terminators... not every army has them so that puts a damper on things.
They should at least get a 2+ armor save for a bit of compensation.

That's true, but it seems that we have other options to deal with Termines...Annhilation ark! And it's cheaper. If the praetorians were like, 23 points apiece then I'd concider it, but 40! Come on, that's too steep, whose going to pay 400 to have a full ten dudes? I honestly think they were only meant to be run in sets of 5.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Actually, come to think of it I think that the praetorians are meant to be anti-termy.

Consider this - they have AP2 weapons that wound MEQs on a 3+, that also count as power weapons.
The Low ini wouldn't matter as termies generally have fists or hammers, and the power weapons would ignore their saves. Having only 1 attack wouldn't matter as termies come in small squads anyway.

Of course, the problem with this is that the praetorians don't have an invul save, meaning that if the termies are given a chance to retaliate...they're dead.

Just something to put forward.

I think they're definitely "anti-Termy" but how do you get them in there? You could easily get the 6" AP2 shots and charge Terminators while playing against a poor player, but it'll be hard to pull off against anyone who sees it coming. To me they're just too expensive and too inflexible. I feel like I'd need to build a list around them to get them to work.

The only type of Termies I ever see are Paladins and TH/SS anyway, so that shot isn't going to do much good against them.

I could see them keeping up with scarabs, and assaulting the innards of transports, after they break them open. It's just at their points cost, they really need more to them. It's a shame, because they have Awesome Models, and Awesome Fluff.

whigwam wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Actually, come to think of it I think that the praetorians are meant to be anti-termy.

Consider this - they have AP2 weapons that wound MEQs on a 3+, that also count as power weapons.
The Low ini wouldn't matter as termies generally have fists or hammers, and the power weapons would ignore their saves. Having only 1 attack wouldn't matter as termies come in small squads anyway.

Of course, the problem with this is that the praetorians don't have an invul save, meaning that if the termies are given a chance to retaliate...they're dead.

Just something to put forward.

I think they're definitely "anti-Termy" but how do you get them in there? You could easily get the 6" AP2 shots and charge Terminators while playing against a poor player, but it'll be hard to pull off against anyone who sees it coming. To me they're just too expensive and too inflexible. I feel like I'd need to build a list around them to get them to work.

They are jump infantry...but yeah, it is risky.

As I said, it was a theory as to what the purpose might be. I personally don't find them that useful.

They could also be anti-vehicle with the void blades...but so are scarabs. And scarabs are a lot better than praetorians.


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Sasori wrote:The only type of Termies I ever see are Paladins and TH/SS anyway, so that shot isn't going to do much good against them.

I could see them keeping up with scarabs, and assaulting the innards of transports, after they break them open. It's just at their points cost, they really need more to them. It's a shame, because they have Awesome Models, and Awesome Fluff.

Or make the stats better. Like an extra wound, or attack, or maybe an invul.

Actually, come to think of it I think that the praetorians are meant to be anti-termy.

Consider this - they have AP2 weapons that wound MEQs on a 3+, that also count as power weapons.
The Low ini wouldn't matter as termies generally have fists or hammers, and the power weapons would ignore their saves. Having only 1 attack wouldn't matter as termies come in small squads anyway.

Of course, the problem with this is that the praetorians don't have an invul save, meaning that if the termies are given a chance to retaliate...they're dead.

Just something to put forward.

This has been in the area of my thoughts as well. Let's keep in mind that RP IS an invulnerable save for all intents and purposes, especially on a fearless model. Of course the difference being that the invulnerable save against a CC attack ahead of your initiative in CC will allow you to strike, but against things like TH/SS that shouldn't come into play.

I see these guys as a group of 5-7 that can apply a quick punch in the face to an assault unit that is threatening the heart of the army, and in this vein I think the S5 AP2 is just what the doctor ordered.

Seasori makes a good point that this role might be fulfilled slightly better by the Destroyers, but if your hurting for FA slots because you fell in love with scarabs or some other FA unit, then I see Preas filling this role quite nicely from the elites slot. Also, unlike the Destroyers, the Prae's have a decent shot of not getting rolled in CC (preferred enemy be damned!). In fact, as Kharrak's Math Hammer shows, Praes tend to hang around for awhile against anything. That ability alone should amke them worth it. As long as they stall (insert nasty assault unit here) long enough for everyone else to get distance and blow them away, job well done IMHO.

Anyway, I'm in the minority club that thinks this unit has solid potential; this was reiterated by some one else on another thread but I think Jump infantry from a non FA slot with this much punch is definitely something to be considered.

Erhm, I mentioned that if you take them, you really Need a Destroyer lord and an Orb with them, not that Destroyers fill their niche better.

These guys are terrible against TH/SS termies, and any dedicated CC unit in general.

But the more I think about it, the more ridiculous a unit these guys are for peeling MEQ and GEQ dudes off of objectives.

Consider the following group:

Destroyer Lord with Res Orb
5 Praetorians with rods

The shots alone are going to tear right through a few MEQs on the way in, and during the assault a TAC squad won't even scratch them. Hell, an AM only inflicts about a wound after RP (assuming a PF sarge). Similarly, their T5 ensures they'll eat a unit of of most non-CC oriented units alive: Necron Warriors, Fire Warriors, Termagants, TAC squads, most guard units will fall pretty hard before them.Hell, if they can get the charge on a group of Boyz, a full squad will only take out 2.5 of them.

The real liability is the 1A, which I have to believe is a fething typo for a PW-equipped 40 pt model. The GW website says 2, maybe it'll be errata'd.

Sasori wrote:Erhm, I mentioned that if you take them, you really Need a Destroyer lord and an Orb with them, not that Destroyers fill their niche better.

Sorry, speed reading the thread and then posting on memory at work Fail .

2 Attacks or change Rod of Covenant to Assault 2 or something. (Hopeless wishlisting...)

I think the best support you can give them comes from a Destroyer Lord (with a Staff of Light and Ressurection Orb) + Triarch Stalker, if the situation allowed.

Hitting a vital unit with the Stalker to grant the benefit of the Targeting Relay to a unit of Praetorians and a Destroyer Lord who are within assault range could be scary.

TL Staff of Light shots (S5 AP3 Assault 3) and five TL Rod of Covenant shots (S5 AP2 Assaul 1) plus whatever the Stalker shot them with pretty much promises to turn the target unit (small squads of elite enemy infantry) into molten slag.

But getting the set up to work seems slightly more challenging. Luckly, Praetorians and Destroyer Lords can move 12" or can opt to DS by virtue of being Jump Infantry. A Stalker could get into position by cover of Night Fighting, perhaps?

Imo, a warscythe on the d.lord is manditory. Assuming you get to run at least a little rampant on your opponent's side of the board, you'll want him to be able to pop any stray vehicles you come across if you get an opportunity.

Triarch Praetorian

__________________ WS__BS___S__T ___W ___I ____A ___Ld__Sv
__Triarch Praetorian __4 ___4 ___5 __5 ___1 ___2 ____2 ___10 __3+

This is what GW's website says their stats are...Maybe the first FAQ will revive them?

Has anyone thought about particle casters and void blades? S6 pistol...Rending....Armor stripping...Extra attack!

Could have some utility.

Well GW are wrong on that front, they only have 1A. As for the rules themselves, I'd say no, I'd rather go for the Lychguard with Dispersion Shields.

i cant believe their is 23(24) posts on this! they suck.

the best think they are good for is pairing the box with the immortal/deathmarch box to make 10 awesome cryteks and even basic necron lords.

Has anyone thought about particle casters and void blades? S6 pistol...Rending....Armor stripping...Extra attack!

Imo, they'll try to compete with scarabs and fail. The loss of their power weapons is huge.

Theorius wrote:i cant believe their is 23(24) posts on this! they suck.

the best think they are good for is pairing the box with the immortal/deathmarch box to make 10 awesome cryteks and even basic necron lords.

Yeah, wonderful models, apart from their goofy tails.

The sc2 stuck in my brain keeps on thinking "oh it'll just be patched for balance later"... but then I remembered GW doesn't work that way so much.

I'm hoping that sixth edition rules shed some light on some of the weirdness regarding necron's heavy guys. I'm really not getting it. What's five strength and toughness worth on a guy that may well never get to attack? Or one shot made only with killing various types of marines in mind that is only at range six? Isn't that like giving your gun bad initiative too?

What I think is really funny, is that 3 of these guys is essentially the old destroyer lord w/staff of light, minus a little toughness, movement options and a whole lot of initiative.

To decrease the cost of warriors and immortals and then throw in a whole host of clunky overcosted melee units sends a lot of mixed messages to me.

I'm also wondering about the assault phase in general. They made delivery really weird too with the open-topped transport being limited to one of the weakest melee units. The scythe on the other hand doesn't have any good covering mechanics to screen guys waiting patiently to get into assault (because necrons hate carrying close close combat weapons and ranged weapons at the same time) while the silly teleport mechanic rules out letting the transport get popped to charge after their turn.

So weird. I have no idea why these things are as expensive as they are. I hope they do work out flushing dudes off objectives. I guess they don't mind striking after units in cover given that they were going to anyway...

If there is anything nice to say about them, it is that with one attack, they are much more likely to let the troop unit they assaulted survive until the opponent's assault phase.

Lucre wrote:
So weird. I have no idea why these things are as expensive as they are. I hope they do work out flushing dudes off objectives. I guess they don't mind striking after units in cover given that they were going to anyway...

Really?

I find them to be almost comparable to a howling banshee exarch with an executioner.
They give up 1 WS, 1 BS, 4 I (that one hurts), 1A, and the banshee's mask.
They gain 2 T, and RP.
They trade S4 AP 5 12" shooting for S5 AP2 6" shooting, and the fleet of foot special rule for the jump infantry designation.

They cost 2 points more per model than a sergeant who would be far more expensive if eldar could take entire squads of them (yes...full 10-man squads of howling banshee exarchs would be more expensive than a single exarch with an executioner is per model. There's an opportunity cost to be paid there).

I feel they're costed about right for a *shooty army*. The math supports their cost if you don't do something stupid with them.

Maybe the GW website is correct and they'll be faq'd to A2. Somehow, I doubt it. That would be a lot of power for cheap when you're talking about a range-bubble army like necrons.

I think the power of HTH necrons is in the attached necron lord with scarabs or a cryptek with a lightning field.
This is going to nerf praetorians as they lose their jump infantry ability.

The one use I can see for them is someone who wants to go overboard with wraiths and monoliths. Run 2 or 3 monoliths and jump your opponent on one flank or the other with you jump troops. But the cost of it is going to make that a limited tactic. 730 for 3 monoliths and two minimum warrior squads then you still have to get your wraiths, praetorians, ctan and an HQ.