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Space Wolves seem to be the most-hated Chapter after the Ultramarines. But why? Is it because of their "Vikings in SPAAAAACE!" feel? Their 'misguided' actions in the Heresy ( I favor this)? Or their arrogant attitude with the rest of the Imperium and the Codex Astartes in particular (even for Astartes Space Wolves are quite arrogant)?

Some people hate:
-They fact they killed the Thousand Sons (Technically not their fault)
-They get away with a few crimes where other chapter may not
-They 'have wolf in the name of everything' barring canis wolfborn (Even i will admit that went too far) there really isn't that much of a difference from the previous codex...
-Some people hate the super cheesy Sw lists (Though this isn't limited to SW)
-Some people just dislike their models/coulour scheme (perfectly fine IMO)
-Some people hate the vikings in space/werewolves in space thing. This is fairly silly because a fair amount of those people like the mongols in space... Go figure...
As it is i think most of those reasons barring the models/colour scheme are stupid reasons...
But that's just me.

I like the Space Wolves, though some of their fluff is a little odd.

JOTWW on the other hand...

While I agree that the Thousand Sons were already manipulated by Tzeentch, the Space Wolves, and Russ in particular, were idiots for obeying Horus and blowing Prospero to hell, Horus may be Warmaster, but the Emperor's orders were to take Magnus into custody, not to kill him.

Their flagrant disregard of the Inquisition and the fact that they made a loyal legion turn traitor during the HH are the two biggest reasons why I dislike them.

Tadashi wrote:While I agree that the Thousand Sons were already manipulated by Tzeentch, the Space Wolves, and Russ in particular, were idiots for obeying Horus and blowing Prospero to hell, Horus may be Warmaster, but the Emperor's orders were to take Magnus into custody, not to kill him.

And then Horus told them their orders had changed.
They should have checked back yes but why would they have reason to distrust Horus?
People keep saing it like the Wolves should be questioning Horus but he is the Warmaster. He has authority over almost everyone in the Imperium barring a select few individuals.
Moreover he is the Emperor's most trusted son (was rather) why should they have reason to doubt or distrust him?

Coolyo294 wrote:Their flagrant disregard of the Inquisition and the fact that they made a loyal legion turn traitor during the HH are the two biggest reasons why I dislike them.

The only thing that probably shields them from the Inquisition is their status as a Second Founding Chapter. And if the Emperor had survived the Heresy, I'm sure Russ would have been rebuked/censored for his actions on Prospero; "You could have tried to speak to Magnus and hear his side of the story, in light of Horus' orders contradicting mine. A follower of the Imperial Truth wouldn't have followed such callous orders and seen something was wrong with them. Russ, I am disappointed." - The Emperor


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purplefood wrote:

Tadashi wrote:While I agree that the Thousand Sons were already manipulated by Tzeentch, the Space Wolves, and Russ in particular, were idiots for obeying Horus and blowing Prospero to hell, Horus may be Warmaster, but the Emperor's orders were to take Magnus into custody, not to kill him.

And then Horus told them their orders had changed.
They should have checked back yes but why would they have reason to distrust Horus?
People keep saing it like the Wolves should be questioning Horus but he is the Warmaster. He has authority over almost everyone in the Imperium barring a select few individuals.
Moreover he is the Emperor's most trusted son (was rather) why should they have reason to doubt or distrust him?

Because the Emperor's orders were to bring Magnus in, not kill him. Horus may be Warmaster, but the Emperor is still the ruler. And the Emperor's commands supersede the Warmaster's. Not to mention that such orders would be unreasonable under the Imperial Truth.

I liked the Space Wolves in "A Thousand Sons", as they fit in with the setting well. Though well-intentioned, they're anti-intellectual space-barbarians granted super human powers. Very over the top and grim dark.

above. i dislike the whole superstitious to a fault, ours is the only true way thing. Though they are the only chapter with any real respect for human soldiers.

In truth Magnus & the TS were well down the path of Chaos it was just Magnus thought he knew better. If Horus hadn't given the order and the Heresy happening in the background. The Emperor would have at some stage anyway. Magnus was was warned not to dabble and his continued dabbling almost brought about the destruction of man by breaching the psychic seals in the palace causing untold damage at the worst possible time.

In a way it was handy for Horus as the SW's took out a foe that he would have found a real threat had if have suceeded in the coup. He would have probably ended up having to share his Chaos throne with Magnus or fighting him for it.

What you also have to remember is there was bad blood between the SW's and the TS's already so when Horus gave the new order I would imagine Russ quite happy to follow it on the Warmasters word. Why wouldn't he? The Emperor probably knew it could only end up one way anyway.

purplefood wrote:Some people hate:
-They fact they killed the Thousand Sons (Technically not their fault)

Honestly this seems like a fairly silly reason to hate them imho. It's pretty obvious that they were manipulated.

purplefood wrote:-They get away with a few crimes where other chapter may not

I'd like to see someone say this is the main reason why they hate Space Wolves.

purplefood wrote:-They 'have wolf in the name of everything' barring canis wolfborn (Even i will admit that went too far) there really isn't that much of a difference from the previous codex...

Valid, but people tend to exaggerate the claims greatly when they mention this one. Even then, it's more silly than hate-worthy.

purplefood wrote:-Some people hate the super cheesy Sw lists (Though this isn't limited to SW)

Again, totally valid and I'm sure this is the #1 reason why people might hate SW.

purplefood wrote:-Some people just dislike their models/coulour scheme (perfectly fine IMO)

Ehhhh I can understand if you didn't like their colour scheme/models, but is it worth hating them purely for that?

purplefood wrote:-Some people hate the vikings in space/werewolves in space thing. This is fairly silly because a fair amount of those people like the mongols in space... Go figure...

Oh c'mon, Vikings/Werewolves IN SPACE is awesome (equally awesome as Mongols IN SPACE)!

Tadashi wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:Their flagrant disregard of the Inquisition and the fact that they made a loyal legion turn traitor during the HH are the two biggest reasons why I dislike them.

The only thing that probably shields them from the Inquisition is their status as a Second Founding Chapter. And if the Emperor had survived the Heresy, I'm sure Russ would have been rebuked/censored for his actions on Prospero; "You could have tried to speak to Magnus and hear his side of the story, in light of Horus' orders contradicting mine. A follower of the Imperial Truth wouldn't have followed such callous orders and seen something was wrong with them. Russ, I am disappointed." - The Emperor

Pretty much this. To me, the SW/Russ should have questioned why the Emperor changed the order, and even tried to see what Magnus' beef was. Instead, they roflstomped the planet and forced a loyal legion to declare war on the Imperium. Buncha' douchebags.

The question is, do the Space Wolves know this? Do they know that, up until they destroyed Prospero, the Thousand Sons were loyal? Even if they don't, they seen rather elitist.

My main gripe is simply JOTWW. It shouldn't exist.

This isn't coming from me as a Tyranid player, because I don't know any Space Wolves players and I've never had it used against me. Simply, it's a powerful psychic power that avoids almost every hoop you jump through to remove a model from the table.

Roll to hit? Nah. Roll to wound? Nah. Enemy gets an armour save? Nah. Enemy gets an invulnerable save? Nah. Enemy gets a Feel No Pain save? Nah. Enemy gets a cover save? Nah. Enemy has multiple wounds? Doesn't matter. Enemy has Eternal Warrior? Doesn't matter. Model was in a squad, therefore not selectable by the SW player as a target? Doesn't matter.

Psychic test, enemy takes Initiative tests, models under the line (only those under the line, unlike every other shooting ability) that failed removed from the table. It's simply poor game design.

Tadashi wrote:Space Wolves seem to be the most-hated Chapter after the Ultramarines. But why? Is it because of their "Vikings in SPAAAAACE!" feel? Their 'misguided' actions in the Heresy ( I favor this)? Or their arrogant attitude with the rest of the Imperium and the Codex Astartes in particular (even for Astartes Space Wolves are quite arrogant)?

More than any of the above, its their overpowered, undercosted Codex, and the way it unequivocally demonstrates GW's contempt for their fanbase.

Oh, and Space Wolf players' insistence on how their psykers use special snowflake rune magic, and not the warp at all; that gets on my nerves too.

English Assassin wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Space Wolves seem to be the most-hated Chapter after the Ultramarines. But why? Is it because of their "Vikings in SPAAAAACE!" feel? Their 'misguided' actions in the Heresy ( I favor this)? Or their arrogant attitude with the rest of the Imperium and the Codex Astartes in particular (even for Astartes Space Wolves are quite arrogant)?

More than any of the above, its their overpowered, undercosted Codex, and the way it unequivocally demonstrates GW's contempt for their fanbase.

Oh, and Space Wolf players' insistence on how their psykers use special snowflake rune magic, and not the warp at all; that gets on my nerves too.

It also got on Ahriman's nerves. How is the Thousand Sons use of incantations sorcery, when the Space Wolves use runes and 'fenrisian magic' not sorcery?

Their Codex books have been perennially overpowered, dating back to 2nd Edition, and a lot of people think their back story is a bit too over the top for the setting.

Honestly, I prefer the old Pre-2nd Edition version of the Space Wolves. They were both vicious, and serious business.

These guys were bad ass:



These guys are kinda silly:

McNinja wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:Their flagrant disregard of the Inquisition and the fact that they made a loyal legion turn traitor during the HH are the two biggest reasons why I dislike them.

The only thing that probably shields them from the Inquisition is their status as a Second Founding Chapter. And if the Emperor had survived the Heresy, I'm sure Russ would have been rebuked/censored for his actions on Prospero; "You could have tried to speak to Magnus and hear his side of the story, in light of Horus' orders contradicting mine. A follower of the Imperial Truth wouldn't have followed such callous orders and seen something was wrong with them. Russ, I am disappointed." - The Emperor

Pretty much this. To me, the SW/Russ should have questioned why the Emperor changed the order, and even tried to see what Magnus' beef was. Instead, they roflstomped the planet and forced a loyal legion to declare war on the Imperium. Buncha' douchebags.

The question is, do the Space Wolves know this? Do they know that, up until they destroyed Prospero, the Thousand Sons were loyal? Even if they don't, they seen rather elitist.

They don't. Even if they did, they wouldn't care. Small wonder the Inquisition doesn't trust them. They care little what other Imperial organizations think of them. They disregard the Codex Astartes completely, so I think even the Ultramarines wouldn't trust the Wolves.


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skronk wrote:above. i dislike the whole superstitious to a fault, ours is the only true way thing. Though they are the only chapter with any real respect for human soldiers.

Salamanders would roast you over a slow flame for that.

They have beards and ride wolves. Nuff said...

When work ends and I can type on a computer, not a phone, I have a long response as to why the wolves can go themselves...

The only thing I've ever disliked about them is they seem too brightly coloured for what they are. Otherwise, I like them. What's wrong with vikings?

CuddlySquig wrote:The only thing I've ever disliked about them is they seem too brightly coloured for what they are.

Actually I kind of agree on that. Hence why I painted mine black + red.

I like them. To be fair, I think the gray color scheme is a little drab, but that's just me.

I think simply, dirty colours are the most appropriate for an army with the background of the space wolves. Those bright yellows don't do it for me. Jimsolo thinks the grey is drab? I think it's too bluish and pretty, it should be drabber.

Also, some of the hair on the space wolf plastics is just plain silly.

I dislike them for a mix of reasons, which include, but are not limited to:

Space WOLVES with far too much emphasis on the 'Wolves' part.
Wolves who ride wolves next to wolves made of metal which lead packs of wolves - Can be included into the above.
Counter-attack everywhere.
Cheap special weapons with no real justification.
Acute Senses everywhere.
Long Fangs with access to Loyalist weaponry and have Havoc statlines with the ability to take smaller squads and split fire for no extra cost at all.
Lone Wolves; how does being the last guy from your squad suddenly allow you to ignore small arms fire, take a lascannon to the face, headbutt demolisher shells, and still survive?
Wolf Scout Outflank, because only Space Wolf Scouts are that good...

I used to think they were a nice concept; Vikings are naturally cool, so Space Marines who are half Space Marine and half Viking are bound to be awesome. Then C: SW came along and made them 1/9th Space Marine, 2/9ths Viking, and 6/9ths Wolf.

Tadashi wrote:The only thing that probably shields them from the Inquisition is their status as a Second Founding Chapter.

NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Space Wolves are one of the ORIGINAL 18 legions.


Everybody that's posted anything other than this or agreed to anything other than this needs to either facepalm or facedesk themselves right now.

Oppressor wrote:

Tadashi wrote:The only thing that probably shields them from the Inquisition is their status as a Second Founding Chapter.

NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Space Wolves are one of the ORIGINAL 18 legions.


Everybody that's posted anything other than this or agreed to anything other than this needs to either facepalm or facedesk themselves right now.

Original 18? I don't think even GW have gone as far as to retcon out the 2 missing legions, considering that the 20th Legion is still in fluff.

Also technically, they're a Second Founding Chapter too, since the Second Founding was simply splitting the remaining loyalist Legions into Chapters, with one of the Chapters maintaining the colours, heraldry, name etc. of their parent Legion.

The current Space Wolves chapter is therefore both a First Founding Legion and a Second Founding Chapter, as is every loyalist First Founding Legion

Avatar 720 wrote:

Oppressor wrote:

Tadashi wrote:The only thing that probably shields them from the Inquisition is their status as a Second Founding Chapter.

NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Space Wolves are one of the ORIGINAL 18 legions.


Everybody that's posted anything other than this or agreed to anything other than this needs to either facepalm or facedesk themselves right now.

Original 18? I don't think even GW have gone as far as to retcon out the 2 missing legions, considering that the 20th Legion is still in fluff.

Name the 2 missing legions, their iconography, their colors, combat doctrine or any actions they have performed. Explain how they were even legions to begin with.

Also technically, they're a Second Founding Chapter too, since the Second Founding was simply splitting the remaining loyalist Legions into Chapters, with one of the Chapters maintaining the colours, heraldry, name etc. of their parent Legion.

This is a joke. Technically they are now called a chapter, but as they are still of the original 18 legions, and outside of one unsuccessful second founding successor chapter (wolf brothers), have NOT split up, they are still a legion... Read their codex and fluff.

The current Space Wolves chapter is therefore both a First Founding Legion and a Second Founding Chapter, as is every loyalist First Founding Legion

See the above response. The current state of the SW is that they are a founding legion, that is called a chapter.

As I promised (not that anyone cared), once I reached my hotel after a long day of work, I'd post why I hate the wolves. When I first saw the codex coming out and got peaks at it, I thought "cool, it's Norse mythology in 40k. I'm gonna love this-I just hate the wolf captain model with twin wolf claws. But the book is gonna be great. Thor and Loki are both in it-nice!"

But...then I got to know more about the chapter and the SW kits came out. I hate the wild hair-it looks ridiculous in power armor. It doesn't look grim, it doesn't look space age, it looks childish. The models really look like a lunatic with split personality disorder (not that all people with SPD are lunatics, just that the artist is both) designed them. (power armor and wild hair DON'T mix!!)

Then I saw the ridiculousness of JotWW. Wow. Just...wow. Plus Chaos Marine stats with counter attack, enhanced senses, better havocs and of course the standard ATSKNF (which chaos's lack of is the reason for their cheaper marines, however they need SOMETHING like it) at 15pts/model.

Finally, we get to the real fluff outside of Norse mythology-I finally read (sorta) the Thousand Sons book in audio format. Leman Russ is a donkey cave of the highest order-he hated Magnus, had obnoxiously arrogant battle leaders (I wanted Magnus to eat Arnie Skarson Skarsonson's head) who DEMANDED Magnus attend to Russ's needs. What STUPID, MORONIC marine makes a demand of a Primarch. Obviously Skarsonson rides the special bus (and his idiotic name proves it-anyone who finds that name cool needs his head examined). Ulfrik (I think) Weirdmake is another awful wolf-befriends Ahriman, acts like a buddy and shares secrets, then denounces them all at the council of Nikea (if spelled correctly). He is foolish enough to claim his abilities are given by his planet, not the warp-even when not ON his planet. An idiot? Oh yeah. Thank God Ahriman killed him. So we have morons who insult primarchs and lying, deceiving jackasses (which I learned is an appropriate term that is acceptable in childrens cartoons, MODs, so please don't edit it out-if seeking proof, watch the 90s Iron Man-Mandarin calls Fin Fang Foom a jackass in it) who betray those they call "friend" while it's convenient.

And because I felt it deserved its own paragraph, to the ignorant who claim Russ was "duped" by Horus-did you forget Russ and the Wolves hated the Thousand Sons already for their sorcery? Horus just gave them the opportunity to do what they wanted to do already. They were only too pleased to destroy the TSs. The whole damn wolfen society can burn to the ground.

Okay, my rant is finished, and can be summed up succinctly below:
-hate the models
-hate certain stupid rules
-hate the jackassary of the characters in the fluff

what a worthless army.

Tadashi wrote:

McNinja wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:Their flagrant disregard of the Inquisition and the fact that they made a loyal legion turn traitor during the HH are the two biggest reasons why I dislike them.

The only thing that probably shields them from the Inquisition is their status as a Second Founding Chapter. And if the Emperor had survived the Heresy, I'm sure Russ would have been rebuked/censored for his actions on Prospero; "You could have tried to speak to Magnus and hear his side of the story, in light of Horus' orders contradicting mine. A follower of the Imperial Truth wouldn't have followed such callous orders and seen something was wrong with them. Russ, I am disappointed." - The Emperor

Pretty much this. To me, the SW/Russ should have questioned why the Emperor changed the order, and even tried to see what Magnus' beef was. Instead, they roflstomped the planet and forced a loyal legion to declare war on the Imperium. Buncha' douchebags.

The question is, do the Space Wolves know this? Do they know that, up until they destroyed Prospero, the Thousand Sons were loyal? Even if they don't, they seen rather elitist.

They don't. Even if they did, they wouldn't care. Small wonder the Inquisition doesn't trust them. They care little what other Imperial organizations think of them. They disregard the Codex Astartes completely, so I think even the Ultramarines wouldn't trust the Wolves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

skronk wrote:above. i dislike the whole superstitious to a fault, ours is the only true way thing. Though they are the only chapter with any real respect for human soldiers.

Salamanders would roast you over a slow flame for that.

I think the Salamanders are one of the most humanitarian Chapters. I think there's another that cares more than they do about collateral damage (chapter name starts with a C, and it ain't the Carcharodons). Also, I don't trust them (the SWs) any further than I can throw them, and considering that if they did exist I couldn't throw them at all, I don't trust them. Or I wouldn't. Buncha mooks.

During 2nd to 4th edition I was a Space Wolf player myself (although I did not play or collect a lot during 4th). I really loved them and would have considered them the coolest marine legion evar. Now? I would not say I hate their current incarnation, but I really don't like it.

The reasons, for me, are:

1: Wolf wolfy wolfwolf. Before the 5th ed codex, Space Wolves were Vikings in Space, norse mythology and all that jazz - that was cool. There was a hint of werewolf, too, but only a hint. Now there is almost no vikingness left, but only werewolves in space. That's boring. I would like my vikings back, but I do not think I'll really try that anymore.

2: The models. They, too, were quite vikingy in 2nd to 4th ed, but the new ones are just too exaggerated. The hairdos are completely silly, and while I practically invented the idea of an extra sprue with wolf tails, tooth necklaces and gak during 2nd edition (ie, before there was one), the new sprues have entirely too many extra wolfy bits and entirely too few normal marine bits. Not to mention the size of some of the stuff.

3: Just having read Battle for the Abyss (not a terribly good read, but okay), I must add that the stereotypical dumb barbarian style that is used to depict them a lot nowadays is rather boring, too. I liked the old Ragnar books a lot, though. But those were written before everything was wolfed up...