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Hello all,

Today Lazuli Miniatures Studios tried out one of Gamesworkshop's new washes. We have had plenty of success with the old one. Here is what happened when Patrick applied Agrax Earthshade (aka Devlan Mud 2.0) was applied onto a walker:

Think you need to mix it. I had a similar-looking problem with washes. There seems to be some kind of "matting" pigment in them that leaves whitish residue.

Conspiracy: Games Workshop™ formulated their new Citadel™ Washes™ to turn white when combined with anything except Citadel™ Paint™ on Citadel™ Miniatures™.

Jokes aside, it looks acceptable on the upper portion of the model. What did you use to paint that? Is it varnished? Is there anything else that would chemically react?

Nobody else has reported this. It's odd.

Not questioning your painting abilities or honesty in any way whatsoever. Just honestly curious what causes that almost-verdigris effect.

I've been using the new thrakka green (biel tan I think?) and it works like a charm, none of that whitish stuff. Maybe its a bad pot?

I hope so.

Shake it up... twisting and shouting is optional.

My friends and I have had nothing but success with the new washes. Perhaps you got a bad batch?

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Shake it up... twisting and shouting is optional.

This forever. You've gotta shake up washes first.

One of my friends had an issue with the new version of Ogryn Flesh, whatever its name is- it came out shiny, like an ink.

Curious, I used the Agrax Earthshade. It did not come out as shiny as his, but it seemed to be slightly less flat than before, but I may be imagining things.

I just found an unopened pot of Devlan Mud, so this weekend I am going to paint up a few identical troops and do a side-by-side comparison.

No one in my area has mentioned that white... issue... yet.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Shake it up... twisting and shouting is optional.

That sir, is patently false.

In all seriousness the new washes do require quite a good shake prior to using. They aren't the old washes and don't work the same. In fact I think they are inferior to the old washes but still get the job done despite being a bit more finicky than I would like.

Most all reviews have been very good for the new washes, so I hope that this is an isolated incident.

I had that happen with Baal Red once. It looked very similiar. I have seen people post about it happening to them as well in the past using the old washes. Shake it more sounds like the answer. Someone also said to use distilled water, or to let your tap water stand for a while before using it with the wash.

Abyssal Failure?

Is that one of the new colours? It's hard to tell.

I believe it is either a bad batch or an older can (although the paints are very new...).

I have had something similar happen with a Baal Red that I left on the windowsill for a month, it lost the depth and came out whitish but not was bad. This makes me reluctant to continue to use the washes.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Abyssal Failure?

Is that one of the new colours? It's hard to tell.

Yes. It's the color of Finecast - matte grey, iirc.

You people and your washes. Just be big and stupid like me and layer for hours and hours only to finally wash things together.

I have a stockpile of the old washes

That said, they definitely form a white separate layer at the top if left for a long time and not shaken- I could see this possibly happening with them, as well.

The new GW washes are totally different from the previous washes. The new stuff flows into cracks and detail a lot better than the previous version. Washing any flat surface with the new stuff with look bad, that's because it is not supposed to be used that way! The new stuff sticks to the details and does not "Stain" flat surfaces as much as the old stuff.

Also the amount of shaking needed for the new paints is about triple the shakes needed for the old stuff. When I first got my cermite white, i was thoroughly disappointed, but after 5 minutes of shaking (every time you let it set for awhile), it was awesome.

Okay, people, let's get this straight once and for all. THERE ARE NO WASHES IN THE CURRENT RANGE OF GW PAINTS. Shades are more like the old inks except less glossy. Glazes are exactly that - glazes. Each has properties that are similar to the old washes but they are NOT washes.

If you want something that works the way the old washes did, you're either going to have to find some from an independent store that still has a stash or you're going to have to turn to a third party company that sells their own brand. Otherwise you'll just have to learn how shades and glazes work and learn the proper techniques for using them.

That being said, I am so glad I still have four pots of Devlin Mud.

Or just go to Army Painter, who's own washes are the same as the GW ones.

I had a problem with Baal Red too - white, chalky residue, even after shaking a lot. Took it back to GW and got a new pot. They'd never seen it happen before.

Nasty. It'd actually look relatively convincingly like mud, if there wasn't an outline around all the rivets. With the exception of those white bits. O_o

The white bits are indeed caused by separation of the matting agent. This can be caused by poor mixing, or more likely in the op's example because the wash was thinned with water when applied (a common technique when using washes on vehicles, to mitigate some of the pooling/staining on the flat surfaces). The orrid tidemarks also give this away (surface tension destroyed by over-thinning).

GW's new washes are not alone in this regard, and I have have this crop up while using other manufacturers washes too.

For panel work like this, it's far better to apply neat and then go over the panels afterwards with a damp brush (mops are best) to remove/thin any excess. This still allows the wash to pool correctly in the recesses, while giving a clean, stain-free surface.


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H.B.M.C. wrote:Or just go to Army Painter, who's own washes are the same as the GW ones.

I actually picked up a bottle of strongtone form Saulte this year, and it is by far the closet thing to Devlan Mud that I know of.

An approx 1:1 mix of Agrax:Nuln is very close too (using slightly more agrax than nuln), but in my initial tests the army painter appears closer in properties and composition, as well as being pretty much bang-on in tone. For those that haven't tried it yet I'd thoroughly recommend giving some a go.

Figured I'd chime in on this "deep" conversation -- I had this happen with one of the old washes too. Shaking it up thoroughly seemed to help.

This happens with the Vallejo washes as well (ask me how I destroyed a 1 week paintjob if you want me ranting). Shake, shake some more, and when you think you're done. Shake it a little more. Then look into using other brands. -.-

H.B.M.C. wrote:Or just go to Army Painter, who's own washes are the same as the GW ones.

I was just about to put in an order for some Primer from these guys and had completely forgotten about their washes because my unyielding love for Devlan Mud and Badab Black would not let me stray from their arms.

Now, I'll have to give Army Painter washes a try. Thanks for that.

So, does anyone have the official line on why they changed so soon in the first place? GW's known for NOT changing much... especially their paint lines.
With the washes being so popular, why did they change them (I'm looking for facts, rather than conjecture and hypoberle)?

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:So, does anyone have the official line on why they changed so soon in the first place? GW's known for NOT changing much... especially their paint lines.
With the washes being so popular, why did they change them (I'm looking for facts, rather than conjecture and hypoberle)?

Eric

The previous formulas and names were copyrighted by their previous supplier. They switched to a new supplier and had to change all the names to reflect that. I'm pretty sure that's the reasoning.

I have a majority of the new blue's and the new blue shade, something 'nightshade'. It didn't work quite as I had hoped. I guess I just need to get used to how these new ones flow.

Also, the two layer paints I have are a little strange, Altdorf Guard Blue and Calgar Blue. They're more like a gel than an acrylic paint. It's really strange to say the least. Anyone else have this 'gel' like issue?

If the previous supplier had copyright on the formula and names, is it plausable that one day someone may release them again perhaps with differing names but the same washes we know and love?