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So my Dakka mates i am here suggesting on how we kill the Grey Knights. In general we are looking for a weakness to exploit on the general purfier spamm/general grey knight codex. If we exaggerate it to far/ get to wide or too focus on one unit we are losing general capablities to fight them. Thus i am ending this rant by saying i am looking for whats a obivious exploit that we can use. I am also leaving it open ended for you to say general ideas on what would dare i say. . . counter the grey knights. To offer some humor/bait here is a video.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Their weakness is that they are very expensive while still only being MEQs.
A Purifier is just as easy to kill as a Tactical marine. He just costs 44% more and has more combat capabilities in both ranged and CC, but hes still just T4 with a 3+ armor.
Anything thats AP2-3 will mow down GKs very effectivly.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
AP 2 works if you have it. Not much of a weakness, as it works on everyone else too
Poison for the dreadknights, but you need to use a feth-load of it to get past 2+ 5++ ...
Shoot them to death seem s to work better than CC, as a whole, but again it takes a feth-load of firepower...
So in short, the same you'd use on everyone else, but way more of it. They don't really have an exploitable weakness beyond a relatively low model count, unless someone allows a 'all psykers on the board (psychic vehicles included) just die, no saves' piece of wargear.
The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
If they are lacking in purifiers, mob the hell out of them. Drown them in corpses. Stuff those fancy guns of theirs with bodies and then throw even more troops at them, mankind's finest won't look so fine when they're buried under a mound of hormagaunts. Try to avoid fighting draigowing unless it's a kill point game as these guys just don't die unless you have a demolisher cannon up your sleeve. As for henchmen, if it can kill guardsmen, with a little work it can kill henchmen too, though henchmen tend to be quite a bit harder than guardsmen.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/11 17:01:33
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Actually, dark eldar are pretty good against grey knights. Darklances mow down purifiers, and massed poison fire works on any infantry. Except for psyriflemen, they only have a 2' threat range.
Against purifiers, they go down to massed fire fairly easily. Regular terminators as well.
I only have problems with the dreads. Hard to get a melta close before the rifleman takes out the transport.
The most important rule of 40K-Page XVII of the 6th edition rulebook, the figure at the top right of the page. "Shake hands with your opponent and thank them for a good battle and fun experience." Then go out for a beer.
Shine bright like Iyanden
Dr. Serling wrote:Actually, dark eldar are pretty good against grey knights. Darklances mow down purifiers, and massed poison fire works on any infantry. Except for psyriflemen, they only have a 2' threat range.
Against purifiers, they go down to massed fire fairly easily. Regular terminators as well.
I only have problems with the dreads. Hard to get a melta close before the rifleman takes out the transport.
Psyfileman dreads have become popular lets discuss on how to deal them. Especially venerable ones..
Kain wrote:If they are lacking in purifiers, mob the hell out of them. Drown them in corpses. Stuff those fancy guns of theirs with bodies and then throw even more troops at them, mankind's finest won't look so fine when they're buried under a mound of hormagaunts. Try to avoid fighting draigowing unless it's a kill point game as these guys just don't die unless you have a demolisher cannon up your sleeve. As for henchmen, if it can kill guardsmen, with a little work it can kill henchmen too, though henchmen tend to be quite a bit harder than guardsmen.
What about clensing flame? drowning them is what i do with my orks, but i am wondering on how to gain more effective nist
Ascalam wrote:AP 2 works if you have it. Not much of a weakness, as it works on everyone else too
Poison for the dreadknights, but you need to use a feth-load of it to get past 2+ 5++ ...
Shoot them to death seem s to work better than CC, as a whole, but again it takes a feth-load of firepower...
So in short, the same you'd use on everyone else, but way more of it. They don't really have an exploitable weakness beyond a relatively low model count, unless someone allows a 'all psykers on the board (psychic vehicles included) just die, no saves' piece of wargear.
Grey Templar wrote:Their weakness is that they are very expensive while still only being MEQs.
A Purifier is just as easy to kill as a Tactical marine. He just costs 44% more and has more combat capabilities in both ranged and CC, but hes still just T4 with a 3+ armor.
Anything thats AP2-3 will mow down GKs very effectivly.
So pack plasma/lascnnons is what we are getting at?
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Yeah, Demolisher cannons, Battle cannons, Plasma, any AP2-3 blasts will take GKs out rapidly.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, Demolisher cannons, Battle cannons, Plasma, any AP2-3 blasts will take GKs out rapidly.
Sadly orks seem the least suited to do this and vanilla marines seem under par for it, the best spamm for that is imperial guard in my opinion.
Would would be the prefered melee weapon against grey knights, so far my best sucess for grey knights as ork was a flaming battlewagon with a mek with kff. I tankshock/deffrolla a unit and then stack 16 flamers on them. But i must know when play a "sub par dex" what would you take dakka? what is your favored? What has won you CC against grey knights?
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
A wagon full of Burnas will demolish purifiers just as easily as it kills any other marines.
Looted Wagons with Boomguns are another thing I don't like as a GK player.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, Demolisher cannons, Battle cannons, Plasma, any AP2-3 blasts will take GKs out rapidly.
Sadly orks seem the least suited to do this and vanilla marines seem under par for it, the best spamm for that is imperial guard in my opinion.
Would would be the prefered melee weapon against grey knights, so far my best sucess for grey knights as ork was a flaming battlewagon with a mek with kff. I tankshock/deffrolla a unit and then stack 16 flamers on them. But i must know when play a "sub par dex" what would you take dakka? what is your favored? What has won you CC against grey knights?
I played the knights just last night....I beat crowe and two purifier squads with guardians...not even storm guardians. Guardian defenders. It also helps when you have runes of warding and every time he tries to hammerhand or something like that somebody loses their head.
As long as they have no death cult assassins, henchmen and inquisitors are easy to beat in cc as well.
The most important rule of 40K-Page XVII of the 6th edition rulebook, the figure at the top right of the page. "Shake hands with your opponent and thank them for a good battle and fun experience." Then go out for a beer.
Shine bright like Iyanden
Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, Demolisher cannons, Battle cannons, Plasma, any AP2-3 blasts will take GKs out rapidly.
Sadly orks seem the least suited to do this and vanilla marines seem under par for it, the best spamm for that is imperial guard in my opinion.
Would would be the prefered melee weapon against grey knights, so far my best sucess for grey knights as ork was a flaming battlewagon with a mek with kff. I tankshock/deffrolla a unit and then stack 16 flamers on them. But i must know when play a "sub par dex" what would you take dakka? what is your favored? What has won you CC against grey knights?
I played the knights just last night....I beat crowe and two purifier squads with guardians...not even storm guardians. Guardian defenders. It also helps when you have runes of warding and every time he tries to hammerhand or something like that somebody loses their head.
As long as they have no death cult assassins, henchmen and inquisitors are easy to beat in cc as well.
Eldar just rape Grey knights in my opinion. Espeically because someones head does pop...lol nice game.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grey Templar wrote:A wagon full of Burnas will demolish purifiers just as easily as it kills any other marines.
Looted Wagons with Boomguns are another thing I don't like as a GK player.
As a GK player what do you shoot at first? whats the average most threatening to you? is their melee units you rather shoot todeath and avoid?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/11 17:32:07
I find that orks are incredibly easy to use against them, as you kill any purifiers they may have with shooting, and then laugh as your endless swarms of boys take down terminator after terminator
mattyrm wrote: Yeah, I don't have PTSD after five combat tours, and frankly I'd rather get parachuted back into Helmand province armed with only a fething Nerf gun and my underpants than go into my local GW.
The following is written by someone who has never played against GK except for fun, so take everything with a grain of salt. I'm only posting my own thoughts, not what I know for a certainty.
Melta/Plasma seem to work well and since many armies can field lots of them, I'm surprised Draigowing is so problematic when a single melta shot takes out a 60+ point model and IG can field a meltavet squad on the cheap. Heck when I played them my pair of TFCs chewed through their purifier squads with them unable to return fire because most of their stuff is range limited to 2 feet.
Lotus wrote:The following is written by someone who has never played against GK except for fun, so take everything with a grain of salt. I'm only posting my own thoughts, not what I know for a certainty.
Melta/Plasma seem to work well and since many armies can field lots of them, I'm surprised Draigowing is so problematic when a single melta shot takes out a 60+ point model and IG can field a meltavet squad on the cheap. Heck when I played them my pair of TFCs chewed through their purifier squads with them unable to return fire because most of their stuff is range limited to 2 feet.
y
i would agree.
FenWulf29 wrote:I find that orks are incredibly easy to use against them, as you kill any purifiers they may have with shooting, and then laugh as your endless swarms of boys take down terminator after terminator
for the most part i agree because everytime my opponet wanted to using cleansing flame he failed. :/ i laughed.
Grey Templar wrote:Their weakness is that they are very expensive while still only being MEQs.
.
People keep saying this. It is not true.
Or rather, it's a truism. It's like saying I could unleash Jon Jones into a karate tournament for 10-year olds, Cosmo Kramer-style, and it'd be balanced because he'd died from a shotgun blast to the face just as the kids, besides, he costs so much more to book!
The average GK has way more goodies than the average MeQ for only a slight price bump. There are many, many other units out there that actually cost more and deliver less (Thousand Sons, Noise Marines, Sanguinary Guard). They can get easy cover saves from allied psykers to get extra resiliency against AP3/2 fire. Most importantly, they can hunker down inside unshakeable, un-stunnable, cover-save-boosted transports while returning high-quality fire from mid-range.
In Boxing matches, you actually get paid to take a dive and make the other guy look good.
In Warhammer 40K, you're expected to pay cash out of your pocket for the privilege of having Marines and IG trample all over your Xenos/Chaos.
In order to beat GK, your first step is to stop convincing yourself that they're unbeatable. That's the most significant step.
After that, you shoot power armor infantry with AP3, and Terminator armor infantry with AP2. Torrent fire works well on both, also.
You don't assault Purifiers if you can avoid it, and you try to tarpit Paladin squads. If you want to shoot Paladins to death, use S8.
You use Melta or the most powerful equivalent you have for taking out Dreadnoughts. Use alternate delivery methods for it to make sure it gets close enough to the Dreads to be effective. Storm Troopers, Drop pods, outflanking, or Eldar Vehicles are all examples of mechanisms for facilitating this.
Not really sure what can be said otherwise other than the tired old "square peg goes in the square hole" mantra. It still works.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Sephyr wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:Their weakness is that they are very expensive while still only being MEQs.
.
People keep saying this. It is not true.
Or rather, it's a truism. It's like saying I could unleash Jon Jones into a karate tournament for 10-year olds, Cosmo Kramer-style, and it'd be balanced because he'd died from a shotgun blast to the face just as the kids, besides, he costs so much more to book!
The average GK has way more goodies than the average MeQ for only a slight price bump. There are many, many other units out there that actually cost more and deliver less (Thousand Sons, Noise Marines, Sanguinary Guard). They can get easy cover saves from allied psykers to get extra resiliency against AP3/2 fire. Most importantly, they can hunker down inside unshakeable, un-stunnable, cover-save-boosted transports while returning high-quality fire from mid-range.
44% is a 'slight' price bump?
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote:Their weakness is that they are very expensive while still only being MEQs.
.
People keep saying this. It is not true.
Or rather, it's a truism. It's like saying I could unleash Jon Jones into a karate tournament for 10-year olds, Cosmo Kramer-style, and it'd be balanced because he'd died from a shotgun blast to the face just as the kids, besides, he costs so much more to book!
The average GK has way more goodies than the average MeQ for only a slight price bump. There are many, many other units out there that actually cost more and deliver less (Thousand Sons, Noise Marines, Sanguinary Guard). They can get easy cover saves from allied psykers to get extra resiliency against AP3/2 fire. Most importantly, they can hunker down inside unshakeable, un-stunnable, cover-save-boosted transports while returning high-quality fire from mid-range.
You raise good points, but i have still seen grey knights crushed.
daedalus wrote:In order to beat GK, your first step is to stop convincing yourself that they're unbeatable. That's the most significant step.
After that, you shoot power armor infantry with AP3, and Terminator armor infantry with AP2. Torrent fire works well on both, also.
You don't assault Purifiers if you can avoid it, and you try to tarpit Paladin squads. If you want to shoot Paladins to death, use S8.
You use Melta or the most powerful equivalent you have for taking out Dreadnoughts. Use alternate delivery methods for it to make sure it gets close enough to the Dreads to be effective. Storm Troopers, Drop pods, outflanking, or Eldar Vehicles are all examples of mechanisms for facilitating this.
Not really sure what can be said otherwise other than the tired old "square peg goes in the square hole" mantra. It still works.
I completely agree with the mentality thing. I often find players that have it convinced they are going to lose roll worse and players who at least want to try to win and give it their best end up rolling better. It seems like what this thread has shown us is, abuse the weak range of grey knight, deal with their dreads or rifle men with a alternative/abnormal approach, excercise caution into melee, but dont run away from it and lastly apply the right weapon to the right spot at the right time. For everything else praise the dice gods. Unless Meta Knight players have any other words to add to this preferably what they hate to run into/what has been their down fall i dont see anything else to say here.
Well, GK excel with their psycannons at the range of 24'' or less. One weakness is that they are rather slow, as slow as any Marine army up to BA. Some fast armies can avoid their shooting at 24'' to a certain extend. Psychic hood can block psychic powers and this is what oppenents can annoy.
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With the grey knights you can at least be thankful for one thing. At least their venerable dreads can't get Tankhunters...they can't right?
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Kain wrote:With the grey knights you can at least be thankful for one thing. At least their venerable dreads can't get Tankhunters...they can't right?
True, there is no tankhunter upgrade available.
Oh thank Gork, if they could I don't think anybody would take vehicles anymore if there was a single psyfleman on the table.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
As a GK player, it makes me sad that no one wants to play me, I'd even use the old codex as long as I wasn't paying 50 points for every friggen squad leader.
However:
1. they are nasty, but only shoot 24" and GK lack blast templates, by letting him go first you can go heavy on one flank and take on his army a half at a time. They are only marines, fight them just like you would a big, nasty marine army with half the models.
2. a strong long range, or alpha strike can cripple the entire army. pop the transports and you have a bunch of marines on foot, dangerous as they are, they still only shoot half way across the board or run as fast as they run.
3. many GK players are just straight-up bad. By taunting a flank with a juicy "boy that squad sure will pay for itself" unit, such as multiwound models begging to be ID'd or a big horde begging to be multi-assaulted. you can dictate the game to your advantage.
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wuestenfux wrote:Psyfleman Dreads are one of the strengths of a GK army. They don't get tankhunter but psyammunition which provides a strength boost.
I'm saying if they could have both, mech lists would disappear overnight as they'd drown everything that doesn't have wounds in effectively a hail of S9 shooting.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Kain wrote:With the grey knights you can at least be thankful for one thing. At least their venerable dreads can't get Tankhunters...they can't right?
True, there is no tankhunter upgrade available.
Oh thank Gork, if they could I don't think anybody would take vehicles anymore if there was a single psyfleman on the table.
Yeah a buddy of mine has 3 vernables pysfilemen dreads...to which he only runs them because i run 9 valkyires :/ (not vendettas be sirprised punks) Basically here is what happens i fly in on scount depending on turn 1 i pop all his rifle with melta cause i can roll 4+ twice. Or He shoots down 3 valkyires and i kill 2 dreads and like 10 purfiers... again my ig are not mega competeive and require great skill on the table to pull wins off because that list is the definition of glass cannon.
But yeah grey knights can be beat and the best way to do it is froma tactical stand point not a rule stand point. If you see that 5 pyscannon squad on the side in the open go take advantage of it. Because with Grey knights being the most recent they will have the most power it just happens will all the codexs. Orks were amazing, Imp Guard were the meta, Dark Eldar were fantastic now Grey knights are fantastic. I most believe it to be meta hype/ new hype then anything. Raw wise grey knights just work amazingly at 2ft or less...and only 2ft or less. Pysfilemen provide that 4ft 3 target hurrasment, but its only 3 targets...kinda silly really if you run any good redundent list with lascannons or equal you wil destory those dreads.
Paladins are just 2 wound Termies. You throw enough boys at them, they will die. Purifiers are better at shooting Tact marines. You shoot them and they will die. So send boys into Paladins and Lootas into Purifiers.
Other armies have better shooting than orks so it is easier to blast them off the board. It's the assaulting the Paladins as non hordes that becomes the issue. But, enough AP 1-2 will take down the Paladins.
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GK v. DE would favor the DE, I think. The sheer amount of Blasters and Disintegrators DE can take, even in a 1000 point list, is insane.
Also, Duke Sliscus with a full unit of trueborn, all with shardcarbines, will most certainly kill something, as 29 shots that hit and wound on 3+ are very helpful.
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