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This damn book is too big (thats what she said). My book is already filled with highlighted and tons of post it notes book marking areas. Cant wait for the "mini" book that will hopefully be in the boxed set.

We really need a cliffs notes version or how about 6th edition for dummies.

The rulebook, IMHO, could actually do with having a bit more. It's too vague in too many areas, almost as if the rules were a half-arsed job of only secondary importance to the advertising-model-showcase section which takes up a fair chunk of the book.

Would have liked the "choose your army," "paint your army" and everything else that isn't a rule to be in a seperate book bundled with the rulebook. It's all cool, but I have to carry this beast with me!

It's enough to make you want to not buy it and just download the PDF to the ipad instead.

Purifier wrote:Would have liked the "choose your army," "paint your army" and everything else that isn't a rule to be in a seperate book bundled with the rulebook. It's all cool, but I have to carry this beast with me!

It's enough to make you want to not buy it and just download the PDF to the ipad instead.

But, ultimatley, I don't want to waste even more money on an Ipad...

And to actually add something to this thread; One of the reasons the book is so fething huge is because they like to turn 50% of all game books into an ad campaign.

i like it. if im spending 90$ on a book it better have alot in it. this one has a great amount of stuff, and good background pics, art and so on. pretty much = win imho

that said ive always got the big book, so ive always had to haul it around. nothing new there.

Its a book where the rules were second to the sell stuff and its way too big

I like its size, though I see the point about it being difficult to transport. Sizewise, the army would easily top it, but paper can be incredibly heavy.

That said, I do like the amount of fluff they've put in this time. Much more than in 5E. On the other hand I would agree that they could've toned down on the (perceived) 100+ pages of colourful photos showcasing the individual minis.

I think it’s the perfect size for taking care of small annoying dogs.

Wrakkar wrote: It's too vague in too many areas, almost as if the rules were a half-arsed job of only secondary importance to the advertising-model-showcase section which takes up a fair chunk of the book.

You have just stumbled upon the great truth of 6th edition right here.

It's not advertising. It's to get you inspired. To show people what can be done with the models, how great they can look. It's a showcase. Man, if I had a penny for every half-baked conspiracy hypothesis (Yes, you heard me. Hypothesis. They don't even warrant the label "theory") on this site, I'd be f-ing rich.

It seems lately that three out of every four thread on this site is some whiny QQ thread about how evil and ruthless games-workshop is. If you guys think this about games-workshop, I can only imagine that you guys are sitting in a log cabin in the forest somewhere, never even thinking about entering a supermarket, because those guys really rip you the F off. I'm even amazed you guys have internet access, because the ISP's are even worse than the supermarkets.

If you guys want to avoid companies trying to make money off of you, you'll have to start living like Robinson F-ing Cruso. And trust me when I say, Games-Worksho is one of the less exploitative companies out there. If the only advertising they do is in their own product, then I think that's pretty tame, compared to the predatory advertising schemes of most other companies.

I used to think dakkadakka was a great community, but it turns out it's chock full of whiners and crybabies. Seriously, if GW is so evil, why keep giving them your money?

TL;DR "leave Britney alone!"

I was annoyed by some of the vagueness and difficulty of navigation off the Rulebook, it's nothing major but it's still an annoyance.

SgtSixkilla wrote:It's not advertising. It's to get you inspired. To show people what can be done with the models, how great they can look. It's a showcase. Man, if I had a penny for every half-baked conspiracy hypothesis (Yes, you heard me. Hypothesis. They don't even warrant the label "theory") on this site, I'd be f-ing rich.

It seems lately that three out of every four thread on this site is some whiny QQ thread about how evil and ruthless games-workshop is. If you guys think this about games-workshop, I can only imagine that you guys are sitting in a log cabin in the forest somewhere, never even thinking about entering a supermarket, because those guys really rip you the F off. I'm even amazed you guys have internet access, because the ISP's are even worse than the supermarkets.

If you guys want to avoid companies trying to make money off of you, you'll have to start living like Robinson F-ing Cruso. And trust me when I say, Games-Worksho is one of the less exploitative companies out there. If the only advertising they do is in their own product, then I think that's pretty tame, compared to the predatory advertising schemes of most other companies.

I used to think dakkadakka was a great community, but it turns out it's chock full of whiners and crybabies. Seriously, if GW is so evil, why keep giving them your money?

Umm... it is advertising, they have doing from the start with there games. It is one of the ways they sell models. It has always been the point of the eavy metal parts of all there books. You can think what you want, dose change the fact, that is what the pics are for.

SgtSixkilla wrote:

If you guys want to avoid companies trying to make money off of you, you'll have to start living like Robinson F-ing Cruso. And trust me when I say, Games-Worksho is one of the less exploitative companies out there. If the only advertising they do is in their own product, then I think that's pretty tame, compared to the predatory advertising schemes of most other companies.

Except when compared to practically every other company in the miniature and wargaming industry, and even then by some margin. In this small niche of the world, they deserve a lot of the scorn they receive. But ultimately I agree, there are a lot more worthwhile things to be worried about and many other businesses that make GW look like Mother Teresa made Limited company by comparison.

Regarding the pictures in the book, why must people go to extremes regarding it? It serves both purposes - helps to inspire players of the games, and also serves as an advertising and marketing tool to help sell mins. As long as you don't make the argument that there are too many pictures, and the game has suffered in other areas, then what does it matter?

Pacific wrote:

SgtSixkilla wrote:

If you guys want to avoid companies trying to make money off of you, you'll have to start living like Robinson F-ing Cruso. And trust me when I say, Games-Worksho is one of the less exploitative companies out there. If the only advertising they do is in their own product, then I think that's pretty tame, compared to the predatory advertising schemes of most other companies.

Except when compared to practically every other company in the miniature and wargaming industry, and even then by some margin. In this small niche of the world, they deserve a lot of the scorn they receive. But ultimately I agree, there are a lot more worthwhile things to be worried about and many other businesses that make GW look like Mother Teresa made Limited company by comparison.

But to be fair, GW is the biggest of the companies (by quite a large margin) and is a massive machine run for profit. I think that's the main reason they are the biggest, and on the receiving end of so much whining and QQ'ing. If the other miniature companies had been run like GW, they'd be much bigger than they are. It was a long while after I got into this hobby that I even heard of another company that made minis.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On another note. "This book is too big" is in my opinion a ludicrous thing to say about a book like the 40K rulebook. If it had been any smaller, I'd have been disappointed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vaktathi wrote:TL;DR "leave Britney alone!"

"George Bush caused 9/11!!111!!11."

spanker.

Did you play at something other than a GW store? My local FLGS carries

GW
Privateer Press (Warmachine/Hordes)
Spartan Games (Firestorm Armada/Dystopian Wars/Uncharted Seas)
Corvus Belli (Infinity)
Dream Pod 9 (Heavy Gear)
Battlefront (Flames of War)
Topps (Battletech, formerly of FASA)
Dark Age
Cool Mini or Not
and more.

So there's definitely more out there if you don't just play at GW shops.

Hell, some of those have had multiple videos games and even TV shows (Battletech, Heavy Gear, etc)

Noir wrote:
Umm... it is advertising, they have doing from the start with there games. It is one of the ways they sell models. It has always been the point of the eavy metal parts of all there books. You can think what you want, dose change the fact, that is what the pics are for.

If it's always been there, is it really shocking that it still is? Indeed, if it had been such a problem, why are you people still buying their product?

BTW: Where games? And which dose changes the fact?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vaktathi wrote:Did you play at something other than a GW store? My local FLGS carries

GW
Privateer Press (Warmachine/Hordes)
Spartan Games (Firestorm Armada/Dystopian Wars/Uncharted Seas)
Corvus Belli (Infinity)
Dream Pod 9 (Heavy Gear)
Battlefront (Flames of War)
Topps (Battletech, formerly of FASA)
Dark Age
Cool Mini or Not
and more.

So there's definitely more out there if you don't just play at GW shops.

Hell, some of those have had multiple videos games and even TV shows (Battletech, Heavy Gear, etc)

I know now that they exist, I just don't think any of them are good enough to play. And AFAIK there are no independent gaming clubs anywhere within 500mi of where I live, and no, I never played at GW. But that's my point exactly. If those companies had been run the way GW is run, maybe I'd have seen them in a store somewhere. I haven't, ever. Only on the web. GW got me into the hobby because they were visible from where I was standing at that time. All those other companies were so far over my horizon I'd need a satellite to be able to see them. And Why? Because they're small, and usually, bad.

The rules would probably only take about 30-40 pages

It barely should be worth around $20-30

but its not like anyone doesnt know the reason why it is the way it is

SgtSixkilla wrote:
I know now that they exist, I just don't think any of them are good enough to play. And AFAIK there are no independent gaming clubs anywhere within 500mi of where I live, and no, I never played at GW. But that's my point exactly. If those companies had been run the way GW is run, maybe I'd have seen them in a store somewhere. I haven't, ever. Only on the web. GW got me into the hobby because they were visible from where I was standing at that time. All those other companies were so far over my horizon I'd need a satellite to be able to see them. And Why? Because they're small, and usually, bad.

I lolled.

I was somewhat disappointed with the Rulebook. I thought it wasn't big enough. But I also had the fantasy book sitting right next to it, and the fantasy book is just a wee bit bigger. Like maybe another 70-80 pages bigger. But other than that I'm happy. they added some new rules/battle missions/deployments and it all looks good so far.

If it is advertising, it's not working. I see well painted stuff and it inspires me to finish what I have instead of buying new models to never finish.

Wait another month or so for the starter kit to come out with a baby rule book.

I recently printed out the rules part of the book so I wouldn't need to carry that monster around. The thing is the rules part still take up over 150 pages with some pictures cut out and layout slightly changed...

SgtSixkilla wrote:
I know now that they exist, I just don't think any of them are good enough to play. And AFAIK there are no independent gaming clubs anywhere within 500mi of where I live, and no, I never played at GW. But that's my point exactly. If those companies had been run the way GW is run, maybe I'd have seen them in a store somewhere. I haven't, ever. Only on the web. GW got me into the hobby because they were visible from where I was standing at that time. All those other companies were so far over my horizon I'd need a satellite to be able to see them. And Why? Because they're small, and usually, bad.

So a small company automatically made "bad games"

Don't take this as a personal attack, but define what is a "good game" for you. Or better, a game that suits you.

I play a lots of other games (Warmachine, Infinity, Malifaux, Anima Tactics, Dystopian wars), bought some more (still have ronin, confrontation, alkemy, Hell Dorado, and other things...), and also have new things in the mail (like Dropzone Commander) ; and I tell you, most, if not all of them are good in a way or another. Some of them are dead, but most are still alive.

If I look at a good rule set, I'll play Warmachine (unfortunately, GW is still in the RAW vs RAI debate after 8th ed of fatasy and 6th ed of 40k...)
If I want a rich universe, sure 40K is right there. Pretty good minis too.
If I want to play a light skirmish game Anima is great. Lots of possibility with very simple rules

Well I could continue, but each of this game has a advantage, and I understand that they are not for everybody.

And you know why I have so many games? Because how GW is run...


To the OP : I fell the same way, and I would buy a small rulebook (like the one that will be in the next starter set..) right now... At least to have a good grasp of the new rules when another player ask something in the store...

SgtSixkilla wrote:

I know now that they exist, I just don't think any of them are good enough to play.

And you base that on....what?

And AFAIK there are no independent gaming clubs anywhere within 500mi of where I liv

Where on earth do you live? Because I can't think of anywhere in the US or Europe that's got a gap of independents 1,000 miles in diameter.

But that's my point exactly. If those companies had been run the way GW is run, maybe I'd have seen them in a store somewhere. I haven't, ever. Only on the web.

The stores in your area subsist entirely on GW stuff for tabletop games? Because I've never seen a game store that did so, at least not anywhere in the US. Methinks you are grossly understating the existence of a lot of these other games. Hell, Warmachine generates more sales and revenue than Warhammer Fantasy does. Both BattleTech and Heavy Gear have had multiple video games made from their IP's (Battletech has IIRC 15+ PC games/expansions over 20something years with another on the way, Heavy Gear has had 2) and even had their own TV shows, while BattleTech got as many fiction books/novels as Black Library has published.

GW has a market position that gives it a market power others can't match, gained in large part because of events in the late 80's/early90's when most other companies around today simply didn't exist to exploit such circumstances (such as the near extermination of most of the US tabletop/miniatures gaming market by Hasbro buying everyone and then collapsing everything, one will notice more miniatures games come out of the UK than the US).

That said, as noted above, many of these other games have had plenty of exposure, if you weren't aware of them, it's not their fault you missed them.

As for the way GW is run, GW does many things well, their IP is very appealing (though heavily based on/inspired by other popular IP's), they make largely good models and have the best plastic kits in the industry, and generally have very good customer service, but GW as a *business* is laughably run. The same company that *BORROWED* money to pay dividends in a year they didn't make it into the black (hint: in the business world, this is insane) while the CEO-who-was-illegally-Chairman (can't be both under UK law for a reason) nicely doubled his yearly income due to his share holdings thanks to said dividends, and that increases it's prices at a rate double to triple that of inflation every year and then wonders why they have trouble growing.

GW got me into the hobby because they were visible from where I was standing at that time. All those other companies were so far over my horizon I'd need a satellite to be able to see them. And Why? Because they're small, and usually, bad.

Again, you base this on what other than they're small? If company size is all you are basing the quality of other games on, then you really are screaming how little you know of them rest of the tabletop gaming world. Have you ever even played a game of Flames of War, Warmachine, Heavy Gear, Dystopian Wars, Dark Age, or Malifaux? Because it really doesn't seem like you've even tried. I'll tell you this, I can't think of another game that has the same repeated balance and rules controversies that GW's games do.

and, just a point: if the rulebook had been a 80 page job, with no fluff, no pics, no armie backgrounds, nothing else, aside from an intro and explanation of play and the rules.... people would STILL be up in arms, complaining that the book is too small, and its not worth it. heck, if gw even lowered the price to 40-50$ and didnt even bother with the cheapo version in the starter box (maybe you just get 50% off brb with starter set purchase) there would be a massive uproar. i agree with sgtsix here...

latley people on dakka have just.....got WHINEY. everything is bad. omg my army nerfed, the rules suck, the book is too big, fliers are broke, overwatch is broke, CC got nerfed, shooting didnt get nerfed enough, transports and vehicles got nerfed, mat ward... and so on and so on.... like really... if GW wasent a CORPORATION and instead an individual, he wouldnt be able to please anyone, because so far everything GW has done in the last year or more has been wrong. FFS...please...stop...the ...whining!

the rulebook is awsome. its not bigger then 5th, its a respectable size, has alot of great reading, and makes alot of stuff that was vague in 5th clearer. and as with any massive game there will be "grey areas" - to be addressed via FAQ... but im betting even that wont be really good enough for anyone here.

Welsh_Furey wrote:Its a book where the rules were second to the sell stuff and its way too big

I take it your talking about the model showcase section? I don't think it's to advertise but more of an inclination to give you ideas but also for art appreciation. Some people do like looking at the models and lets not forget we do get Golden Daemon winners. SO there is a aprt of the hobby for aesthestic purposes.

DarthSpader wrote:

latley people on dakka have just.....got WHINEY. everything is bad. omg my army nerfed, the rules suck, the book is too big, fliers are broke, overwatch is broke, CC got nerfed, shooting didnt get nerfed enough, transports and vehicles got nerfed, mat ward... and so on and so on.... like really... if GW wasent a CORPORATION and instead an individual, he wouldnt be able to please anyone, because so far everything GW has done in the last year or more has been wrong.

All this is new...how? Dakka, and the internet in general, has always been like that.

Hopefully they will bring out the downloadable quick reference sheet for it soon, the 5th Ed one is still on the site.

I like the book, but I don't really want to carry it about, it cost a lot of money and I don't want to mess it up.

Noir wrote: Umm... it is advertising, they have doing from the start with there games. It is one of the ways they sell models. It has always been the point of the eavy metal parts of all there books. You can think what you want, dose change the fact, that is what the pics are for.

If GW didn't put these pictures in I bet people would complain about not seeing any great artwork in their books to inspire ideas on their painting.

DarthSpader wrote:if im spending 90$ on a book it better have alot in it.

I agree