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Being a robo-sapien, aka Necron, I will start with Necron tactics for beating down this new Tau MC.

Before the new Tau Codex came out, I already knew we Necrons may be in for a fight when I saw rumors of an 'uber suit'. I hoped that it would be a vehicle, like a Dreadnought or Maulerfiend, but since we had no such luck its time to suck it up and come up with a way to fight this new enemy.

The Necrons codex already has some difficulty with MCs and it only gets harder when said MC has a 2+ armor save.

Until now, that hasn't really been too hard to avoid because there aren't very many MCs that fit that profile -

- Tyrannofex: Not very popular with Tyranid players it seems
- Hive Tyrant: Can have a 2+ save, but I don' think I've ever seen anyone take a Hive Tyrant who didn't have wings, especially not in 6th Ed.
- Nemesis Dreadknight: a tough cookie, but his 5+ invuln meant that most rending hits would cause a wound, so Deathmarks and Wraiths with Whip Coils are a solid counter for this guy

Which brings us to our new foe, the XV104 Riptide. With his T6 5 Wounds 2+ armor and possible 3+ invulnerable save, he is now easily the hardest monstrous creature to crack. For shear durability, I think only a Greater Unclean One who has Iron Arm and re-rollable invulnerable is tougher.

So how do we kill this guy?

I did some dice rolling and was disappointed in the repeated results I saw.

I'll start with the ones I was pretty sure would fail.

Heavy Destroyers - that 3+ invulnerable kills these guys. They simply do not cause nearly enough damage to justify their cost and almost never survive the Riptides return fire.

Destroyer Lord - I actually thought this may be the answer, but it wasn't. Armed with Mindshackle, the Riptide still passes his Ld check about half the time, and usually puts a wound on the Destroyer Lord when he hits back and the Lord usually puts one on him with his Warscythe. This means that all the Destroyer Lord does is tie him up for about 4-5 Assault phases before he gets killed and the Riptide starts shooting at you again.

Scarab Swarms - These little guys actually did better than I thought, but still I don't think they are the answer. Most of the time, the scarabs would put a wound on him at some point, making his armor save -. The problem here is two fold. Firstly, the Riptide is instantly killing bases, so you are in a race against time to put a wound on him so afterwords he can be killed with shooting. Secondly, he still has the 3+ invulnerable, meaning he is never going to be without a decent save.

Lychguard - The Lychguard had by far the best results in CC usually killing it in 1 or 2 rounds of close combat, but I'm pretty sure they are never, ever going to make it to the Riptide before they get killed. Even getting their own Nightscythe to drop them right next to the Riptide, he can move 4d6 to get away, so even after paying 100 points for that Nightscythe gets you nothing.

There are a few other things I didn't try. Such as C'tan Shards which would surely beat him down in CC, but once again would never make it there. Or massed Tesla Destructor fire, which would take so much fire power to get passed that 2+ I really don't think its worth it.

Now for the real best chances we've got.

Deathmarks - I tried this about 7-8 times, each time assuming the Deathmarks get within rapid fire range before taking any damage themselves, which because of Deepstrike and Nightscythes is fairly easy to do. Now for the depressing part. On average, a 10 man squad of Deathmarks usually put 2 wounds on him, 2 wounds...... That's all. Sometimes they would put more, sometimes they would cause no wounds. After that, I really don't think Deathmarks are the answer.

Wraiths - When I did rolls for the Wraiths, I did it using different squad sizes. This fight is usually a total stalemate. A squad of 2 Wraiths would usually cause 0 wounds and take 0 in return, and thus stay in CC forever. A squad of 3 Wraiths was pretty much the same, maybe causing a wound here and there, but not enough to kill it. 4 Wraiths would usually kill it, but only after about 6-8 assault phases, that's 4 turns. After that I decided to just try it with max Wraith squad size, 6 Wraiths. A squad of 6 Wraiths would usually kill him in 2 rounds of CC and take 0 wounds in return. This is the first thing I think really came out as a good answer for the Riptide.

This last one took me by surprise, but had good results.

Necron Overlord on Catacomb Command Barge - With MSS, Phase Shifter and Warscythe, I was pleasantly surprised to see that an Overlord would usually kill the Riptide in about 4 rounds of CC. That Phase Shifter is what swings the fight decisively in the Overlords favor.

So there you have it.

Small squads of Wraiths if you are ok with just holding him down forever, big squads of Wraiths if you want to kill him. Or, Overlord on Catacomb Command Barge.

What is your plan to kill the XV104 Riptide?

Wraithguard + doom Unless he is eternal warrior? Possibly using null zone and a force weapon could do the trick as well.

First, he doesnt always have a 3++ save. He could actually end up failing that and taking a wound.

Dlord with some scarabs is usually the best way to kill tough MCs. Dlord can take the few wounds that the riptide can put out, the scarabs knock off the armor save, then eat it.

For the wraiths, did you factor in smash? Sure the riptide gets less attacks, but doing twice as effective attacks in return.

Generally the best way to deal with 2+ MCS in shooting is quantity of high str. With all the S7 shooting that Crons can get, you can put quite a few wounds on the riptide in a turn before the riptide can get assaulted .The S7 shooting is rarely going to have better targets as new tau is generally less about transports and more about vehicles being fire support.

Keep in mind the cost of the riptide. Its ~200 points. If he has more than one, hes spending a good portion of his army on them.


For eldar, harlequins still eat him with doom. It takes 1 full game turn to kill him in assault and he really does nothing to the harlequins in return, either in shooting or melee. Marker lights will be a problem, but those are first priority dead for my whole army.

Corsairs are going to have a problem with him, but between warp hunder's ID, Nightwings, misfortune, psychic shreak, and dropped fire dragon suicide squads i should be fine.

For IG.... ignore it for the most part. Who cares about S8 AP2 blasts when im sitting behind a line that gives 2+ cover to inf and 4+ to AV14 russes.

Did you factor in fnp to that math?

 spears wrote:
Did you factor in fnp to that math?

Wow, no I didn't. That makes it even worse.

@Zephoid

He pretty much is going to have that 3++ all the time. Nova-charge on Ion Accelerator is really not worth it. That Invulnerable is by far the best choice.

The Destroyer Lord loses, pull out some dice and see for yourself. Not having a invulnerable save kills him.

Yes, I did factor in Smash for the Wraiths, that 3++ on Wraiths is quite handy.

Well, how about this? The GKs Vinidicare Assassin has one type of shot that takes away an invulnerable save. For you necrons, take Gk as allies, use scarabs to take his armor away, and Vindicare for the invulnerable.

For CSM.

My best guess would be having Abaddon, Kharn, maybe typhus, or a defiler get him. Another idea that oculd work is a bunch of Khorne Berzerkers. A tarpit could be Cultists getting him tied up every turn with a unit of 5-10 cultists is a funny thought, because he can never shoot.

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
Well, how about this? The GKs Vinidicare Assassin has one type of shot that takes away an invulnerable save. For you necrons, take Gk as allies, use scarabs to take his armor away, and Vindicare for the invulnerable.

For CSM.

My best guess would be having Abaddon, Kharn, maybe typhus, or a defiler get him. Another idea that oculd work is a bunch of Khorne Berzerkers. A tarpit could be Cultists getting him tied up every turn with a unit of 5-10 cultists is a funny thought, because he can never shoot.

The Vindicares shield penetrator only removes a piece of wargear that grants an invulnerable save. The 3++ comes from Nova Reactor which is a special rule, not wargear...strangely enough.

 zephoid wrote:
First, he doesnt always have a 3++ save. He could actually end up failing that and taking a wound.

For IG.... ignore it for the most part. Who cares about S8 AP2 blasts when im sitting behind a line that gives 2+ cover to inf and 4+ to AV14 russes.

Yeah because the rest of the army does not have gear that removes cover....oh wait how about a commander with a drone controller and a 6 Drone markerlight hitting on 2+ and then that means at least 5 hit. 2 ML removes cover, and 3 ML to Improve the BS to 6. Oh look dead IG 75% of time.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
Well, how about this? The GKs Vinidicare Assassin has one type of shot that takes away an invulnerable save. For you necrons, take Gk as allies, use scarabs to take his armor away, and Vindicare for the invulnerable.

For CSM.

My best guess would be having Abaddon, Kharn, maybe typhus, or a defiler get him. Another idea that oculd work is a bunch of Khorne Berzerkers. A tarpit could be Cultists getting him tied up every turn with a unit of 5-10 cultists is a funny thought, because he can never shoot.

The Vindicares shield penetrator only removes a piece of wargear that grants an invulnerable save. The 3++ comes from Nova Reactor which is a special rule, not wargear...strangely enough.

Oh, I didn't know that. I was thinking and thinking and I could have a solution. Rad grenades with GK take -1 T if you charge. This could be useful with a GK allies/ army. Have a chapter master or captain, idk it doesn't matter so much, give them a daemon hammer and put them in a terminator squad with all daemon hammers. This has 13 s8 attacks with AP2 and instant death if you activate the weapons. This most likely kills him in one turn. IDK his I or that, but my guess is it would work. If he has a higher initiative than I thought, then have a grand master with terminator squad with all of them having halberds for the initiative. For this, you have to pass the test for force weapons, or you could choose to have falchions for the pure amount of attacks on the charge and hope there is one left.

For the Math on those 3. I don't know the Riptides' stats, but here is the GK, assuming they charge each turn and pass their tests.

Grandmaster with rad grenades, 5 terminators, all have daemonhammers and force weapon test: 19 S8, AP2, ID, attacks at I 1, hitting against a T5 MC.

Grandmaster, 5 terminators, all with falchions and force weapon test: 31 S4, AP3, ID, attacks at I 5/4, hitting against a T6 MC.

Grandmaster, 5 terminators, all with halberds and force weapon test: 19 S5, AP2, ID, attacks hitting at I 3 (I think), against a T6 MC.

These all seem to work enough so that it dies easily, unless the damn suit has eternal warrior.

Honestly, you don't really *HAVE* to take it down. Just keep it stuck in combat and you've stopped it from participating in firing - good enough if you ask me. Otherwise, Necrons are going to have a tough time taking it down.

I don't have the Necron Codex to hand, so I can't look for any neat tricks, but I would think something in the Cryptek or C'Tan abilities might hold an answer. Outside of Necrons, one thing occurred to me almost straight away - it's vulnerable to Instant Death despite having T6. We're talking things like Force Weapons, wargear with the Instant Death ability... and so on. These only have to cause a single wound in order to down the thing, so even with a 3++ it's a valid tactic to try if you can pile enough attempts on the thing.

Grey Knights in particular are going to have a field day with it, along with properly kitted out Daemons.

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:

For the Math on those 3. I don't know the Riptides' stats, but here is the GK, assuming they charge each turn and pass their tests.

Grandmaster with rad grenades, 5 terminators, all have daemonhammers and force weapon test: 19 S8, AP2, ID, attacks at I 1, hitting against a T5 MC.
Grandmaster, 5 terminators, all with falchions and force weapon test: 31 S4, AP3, ID, attacks at I 5/4, hitting against a T6 MC.
Grandmaster, 5 terminators, all with halberds and force weapon test: 19 S5, AP2, ID, attacks hitting at I 3 (I think), against a T6 MC.
These all seem to work enough so that it dies easily, unless the damn suit has eternal warrior.

Nem. Halberd is S4 AP3 +2 init, so you're swinging on init 6.

My plan is staff of warding. S4 AP3, 2+ invul in combat. Then a daemon hammer or two in the unit.

-Matt

thejughead wrote:
First, he doesnt always have a 3++ save. He could actually end up failing that and taking a wound.

Yeah because the rest of the army does not have gear that removes cover....oh wait how about a commander with a drone controller and a 6 Drone markerlight hitting on 2+ and then that means at least 5 hit. 2 ML removes cover, and 3 ML to Improve the BS to 6. Oh look dead IG 75% of time.

Congrats, you now spent ~400 points to kill a guardsman squad. And while the riptide is strong, the commander isnt. Pretty much the obvious tactic vs tau at this point is shoot the markerlights. They are mostly on things that arent particularly hard to get rid of. Between some thudd guns and some heavy artillery, i will have no problem at all killing that commander, even if he tries to get out of sight. Guard outshoots tau any day of the week.

Isnt the inv off the reactor? If so, it still has that chance to activate every turn. If it fails, throw everything at it while its inv is lower and its already taken a wound.


I didnt look, but is the riptide a character? Seems silly if he is, but that hasnt ever stopped gw.

Enfeeble. Enfeeble and anything S10, unless I am lucky enough to get a few Enfeebles, then the Hive Guard can have fun with it. JSJ means nothing to them, heh. This hinges on proper rolls, though, so I might just have to punch it a lot. Poison will be handy for this one.

Poison gargoyles might be my answer, but only trying it out will tell. I usually try overloading the tau with bodies, and it has been a viable tactic so far... not sure if this will change. Flamersuits have been problematic.

The entire codex is built with ML multipliers. implying that point for point comparison is they way to judge its effectiveness is not really grasping the concept of Tau tactics.

For Wolves, TWC and/or a decently tooled-up Lord look like the way to go. A Lone Wolf can probably kill or severely hurt it as well.

For Guard... shot it. AP2 preferably.

For Nids, assault it with your MCs or Genestealers.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
For Wolves, TWC and/or a decently tooled-up Lord look like the way to go. A Lone Wolf can probably kill or severely hurt it as well.

For Guard... shot it. AP2 preferably.

For Nids, assault it with your MCs or Genestealers.

Or you could do it the easy way and just jaws his ass lol. Tau are not known for their speed.

More importantly though the OP was asking for necron advice, or implied it anyway. I don't think any thing imperial has an issue killing that thing.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
For Wolves, TWC and/or a decently tooled-up Lord look like the way to go. A Lone Wolf can probably kill or severely hurt it as well.

For Guard... shot it. AP2 preferably.

For Nids, assault it with your MCs or Genestealers.

Or you could do it the easy way and just jaws his ass lol. Tau are not known for their speed.

More importantly though the OP was asking for necron advice, or implied it anyway. I don't think any thing imperial has an issue killing that thing.

No no, I was just wondering what anyone is planning to do, regardless of army.

@SBG, what I wouldn't give for some Enfeeble. Hit him with it just once, and then splat him with a Doomscythe. If only it where that easy.

My heavy bolter Retributor squad would have a good time with one. Or failing that, an Exorcist barrage or two should do the trick.

Tie him up with Ogryns! But that means you would have to take them in the first place...

Dark Eldar laugh at Tau, an Archon with his court and a husk blade will kill him on the charge

i dnt play crons but my friend does, and every time he faces GK his has his Destroyer Lord own the GK player's DKs via mindshackles. Ive never seen that fail since its a 3D6 leadership test, and it completely negates the model and usually kills itself.

Yes, if it fails then whoops sorry destroyer lord is dead. The odds of it failing are even less than him wiffing enough 2+ saves from random infantry using Gauss or Tesla trying to get lucky.

Jaws of the World Wolf, meet initiative two.

As an Eldar player, my pathfinders will shoot at nothing else until it's down.

Also, the typical Eldar approach. Fire Dragons. Fire Dragons solve all.

I think taking it down is going to be a lot harder than people actually think. With jsj it will be very hard to catch him for an assault and with a 72'' gun he can jump across the board and still fire just fine. How often have you guys caught crisis suits in close combat? One unit alone will not outrun him.

For shooting, he out ranges most guns. Threats to him will be high priority targets because once those are gone he can go around smashing face. Also you can take more than one.

Shoot it with my riptides first I guess.

Still waiting on my dex

Does the Riptide move like normal Infantry or does he have jetpacks or something? If its just 6inch move than any biker force could easily catch it even with its jsj

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Still waiting on my dex

Does the Riptide move like normal Infantry or does he have jetpacks or something? If its just 6inch move than any biker force could easily catch it even with its jsj

Riptides are Jet Pack MCs.

Plan 1: DP --> JotWW

Plan 2: Plasma

Plan 3: Vendettas

Plan 4: Tarpit

Jetpack? K that could be hard to catch even for my bikernobz lol (which isnt the optimum group for MC killing anyway cuz of Smash attacks)

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
For Wolves, TWC and/or a decently tooled-up Lord look like the way to go. A Lone Wolf can probably kill or severely hurt it as well.

For Guard... shot it. AP2 preferably.

For Nids, assault it with your MCs or Genestealers.

Or you could do it the easy way and just jaws his ass lol. Tau are not known for their speed.

More importantly though the OP was asking for necron advice, or implied it anyway. I don't think any thing imperial has an issue killing that thing.

No no, I was just wondering what anyone is planning to do, regardless of army.

@SBG, what I wouldn't give for some Enfeeble. Hit him with it just once, and then splat him with a Doomscythe. If only it where that easy.

Yeah, enfeeble is amazing. Now I know it will work well once, but then getting into range after they realize what it does will be hard. My psykers are likely going to be high priority targets... and that jsj is really going to be difficult to work around. Swarms of gaunts might help limit movement, however.