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Lol, Riptide is 72" away and none of those things you shot can reach him.

I never knew a table was 72" long.....Lets just assume that in the 1/3 chance it is long ways and on a 6x4 table, that the pathfinders don't infiltrate, walkers move and the quad gun is in the back field...we still got warp spiders that can at least bring it down a peg or two and then jump into cover.

72" range doesnt mean the model is always 72" away... its 48" - base diameter at most 95% of the time... get over it

my lemen russes have 72" range, yet peopl ehave no problem engaging them with lascannons,

tactics man... if that riptide is 72" away from me, I win, its not anywhere near an opbjective if its sitting the back corner, and in any deployment other then the short table edges, its only 48" away

the rip tide is powerful, but very easy to deal with if you have a TAC army that has dealth with a t6 2+ monstrous creature before

same strategies that work against nids, GK dreadknights, demon princes ect.. will all work on rip tides.

I also forget that if the riptide comes into wraithcannon or d-cannon range and we get an unsaved 6 then riptide goes....bye bye.

I think the thing that makes the Riptide super tough is not its defensive stats (which are really good, especially with FNP), it's that it's a shoot-first unit. It comes with close to the heaviest firepower in a Codex of firepower units. Most every other MC spends a few turns getting into position, then goes for a close combat payoff, the trick is to tarpit them or intercept them. The Riptide just hangs out, meting out the pain from Turn 1. You have to chase it down with assault units, and get those assault units through one of the better anti-infantry armies in the game. If you finally catch this thing, with it moving and firing the whole time, it won't be before it's had a chance to kill a bunch of units itself, so it ends up being a bit of a hollow victory. There's a few hard counters (Jaws), but I think anyone who deals with it like a "normal" MC will get badly stomped. The more I think about it, the more I think it's probably the most reliable Big Gun in the game, thanks to tank-like long-range heavy weapons, jet-pack mobility, near small-arms immunity, and more resistance to AT weapons than anything in its weight class.

Here's the foundation for the new Tau: HQ suits with bodyguard units of Crisis suits, 3 Riptides, Fire Warriors/Kroot units on foot, Missilesides with Missile Drones, and an Aegis Defence Line with Quad Gun. Extra points to whatever you want to specialise your army towards. They're going to give a game to anyone whether the opponent has units that can attempt to deal with the Riptides or not.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
No, they're not.

Black Knights are good MC hunters, but you're forgetting it has a 2+ 3++ and your Knights don't get a save against its attacks, so you'll be losing a bike each phase.

Not to mention the BS2 Overwatch from its supporting units- and the Stealth/Shrouded from invis can be removed by Markerlights. The best chance is for the Librarian to hit it. Where are you getting re-roll invulnerable saves from? Allied Null Zone SM Librarian?

IIRC (I don't have the BRB at work) there is a divination malediction that forces rerolls of all saves. There is also a blessing IIRC that gives the whole unit a 4++ invul save. Granted these tactics all rely on luck on the Divination power table. If I was really worried about making armor saves you can put a techmarine on a bike with a powerfield generator with the rest of the squad and call it a day (not a bad little deathstar there, may have to give it a try).

But I was just going on how to handle the Riptide not the whole Tau army.

As for marker lights, well, I'd have some higher priority targets on the table to worry about as well as the black knights. Deathwing on your doorstep for one. Two TL heavy flamers are a beast against Tau infantry.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

cryhavok wrote:
When you plan to assault a riptide, I advise you plan for the massed support fire of his entire army as well. Assaulting the tau is not as easy as it used to be.

That's just the thing. Nothing in the Tau codex really worries me like the Riptide does. Due to Nightscythes and Veilteks, I'm not worried about getting close enough to rapid fire pretty much everything else the Tau have straight into oblivions sweet embrace. So, with some average rolling, I should have killed anything else that's nearby, but then again, s*** happens.

yeah well you should be, the suit bomb with mr no scatter is going to hit hard also and he can have both, dont worry tau will be hard as nails in a skilled generals hands...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the othe thing is that the riptide isn't alone, you will not be able to force your whole army against him while ignoring the rest. But tbh those lone-counter droppods will be blown out of the sky by most Tau lists.

However i would consider a Riptide as ally in my cron armie, muhaha, shackle those young tau puppies and use them...

easysauce wrote:
72" range doesnt mean the model is always 72" away... its 48" - base diameter at most 95% of the time... get over it

my lemen russes have 72" range, yet peopl ehave no problem engaging them with lascannons,

my basilisk has 160" range and gets killed on turn one more often than not.

 Red Corsair wrote:

cryhavok wrote:
Baring outside (allied) interference, and assuming that the tau could not deal with them before they get it off, yes jotww would indeed make them cry. I think you are underestimating thier ability to deal with a drop pod assault though. Also my tau have a farseer running around with them, can't speak for anyone elses.

Well to start, I consider the tau codex as codex: Tau allies as they are now the village bicycle to 40k armies IMO. So generally yes I agree they will have allies but I think the most common will end up being marines as the ability for the new tau characters to dole out USR in seeming broken ways is just being touched on and I think some silly combinations are going to arise. Also note that tau still have a weakness in regards to their troops, not at holding home court but at taking away distant objectives, I think space marines fill this roll best.

In regards to drop pods, as tau I would be more afraid of the actual marines then the psychers, pods of stern guard or wolf guard will really hurt turn one unless you castle up and bubble wrap really well. This of course causes issues of its own in objective missions, in any case I am excited to see what blossoms from this release as it really is going to shake up 40k. I am just dreading seeing the ubiquitous tau allied detachments that I fear are going to arise.

Indeed I am looking forward to playtesting all this theory crafting. I'll keep your advice in mind when I do. I'll never claim to be the most experienced player, so you could very well prove correct. I have about six lists that I'm in the process of testing out, and I haven't gotten to the riptide lists yet. Coming from chaos deamons I am wary of fielding too many points into MC, they are rarely as durable as thier hype suggests, and need a good list capitolizing on what they do.

 Exergy wrote:

easysauce wrote:
72" range doesnt mean the model is always 72" away... its 48" - base diameter at most 95% of the time... get over it

my lemen russes have 72" range, yet peopl ehave no problem engaging them with lascannons,

my basilisk has 160" range and gets killed on turn one more often than not.

yes so do mine, very good point! range isnt everything!

riptides are part of the changing meta in 6th,

If you are not mobile or long ranged enough to engage something far away, your army is not really TAC to begin with

while they are a strong unit, they will take wounds to nova generator, and will die to any real CC unit or your standard anti tank/terminator ranged weapons.

ranged, and flyers were very strong up till now, still will be but just not in such a lopsided way with so many things stuck with previous edition rules.

we now get more AA, and there will be a shift a bit as mobility becomes more important, and CC get a bit more useful again

I like the people talking about drop pods as an answer because Tau players never learned how to bubblewrap our strategic assets... The riptide starts the game on the table edge, behind 3 units of firewarriors (with supporting fire) who are behind an ADL. Everybody mentioned supported by Aun Va and a fireblade or two thrown in and hammerheads on the flanks to take out opposing armor.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
Well, how about this? The GKs Vinidicare Assassin has one type of shot that takes away an invulnerable save. For you necrons, take Gk as allies, use scarabs to take his armor away, and Vindicare for the invulnerable.

For CSM.

My best guess would be having Abaddon, Kharn, maybe typhus, or a defiler get him. Another idea that oculd work is a bunch of Khorne Berzerkers. A tarpit could be Cultists getting him tied up every turn with a unit of 5-10 cultists is a funny thought, because he can never shoot.

The Vindicares shield penetrator only removes a piece of wargear that grants an invulnerable save. The 3++ comes from Nova Reactor which is a special rule, not wargear...strangely enough.

The Novacharged Ion Accelerator is a Str: 9 AP 2 Large Blase that can have interceptor on it. It will always be worth it, especially in an army that lost a good chuck of it's 9+ Str shooting. Secondly the Invulnerable save actually does come from a piece of wargear. The Riptide Shield Generator. It's normally a 5+, but the Nova Reactor turns it into a 3+. However it is still the same piece of wargear, and if it can't use the 5+ it can't get the 3+.

I think your best tactic is double-tap plasma... but the trick is getting enough of it on a super-fast death machine before your guys are dead.

Deepstrike plasma-cide Chaos Terminators?
Deepstrike plasma raptors?
Autocannon spam (ugh, this is a terrible idea)?
What does a pask-punisher boat put out on this thing?

Enfeeble/shoot also seems very viable.

The Riptide is a shooting unit through and through. It's really weak in close combat. WS2, I2, and 3 attacks? He gets to hit almost everyone on 4's, many on 5's, and with only 3 attacks, he will probably only do one wound. If he gets in with a unit of TH/SS terminators, he is going down real fast. All he needs to do is lose by one wound (not that hard, since he won't be doing any), fail his Ld 9 (which is going to be at most 8), and then get swept. And I just remembered that terminators can't sweep, but many other similar units can. The point still stands.

Even worse, he will be tarpitted by anything. Anything. 5 tactical marines? He will only kill 1 a turn. Guardsmen? Oh great he splatted 2. Anything with an invulnerable save? My point is he's a push over in combat.

If the riptide is supposed to be a meat shield for tau to keep the rest of the gun line out of CC then wouldn't chasing it further away from the other units its supposed to be protecting be an effective tactic? So just deepstriking next to it and letting it fall back for a turn while you go and chew up something else would be a good strategy.

 agnosto wrote:
I like the people talking about drop pods as an answer because Tau players never learned how to bubblewrap our strategic assets... The riptide starts the game on the table edge, behind 3 units of firewarriors (with supporting fire) who are behind an ADL. Everybody mentioned supported by Aun Va and a fireblade or two thrown in and hammerheads on the flanks to take out opposing armor.

Yes and this doesn't gain you any objectives does it. Tau are still very much a slow army and DP armies can easily get first blood and line breaker from you cramping up in one corner. I personally think DP armies are one of the best builds in 6th because they can really dominate in objective games by making your opponent bubble wrap himself into immobility.


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 PraetorDave wrote:
The Riptide is a shooting unit through and through. It's really weak in close combat. WS2, I2, and 3 attacks? He gets to hit almost everyone on 4's, many on 5's, and with only 3 attacks, he will probably only do one wound. If he gets in with a unit of TH/SS terminators, he is going down real fast. All he needs to do is lose by one wound (not that hard, since he won't be doing any), fail his Ld 9 (which is going to be at most 8), and then get swept. And I just remembered that terminators can't sweep, but many other similar units can. The point still stands.

Even worse, he will be tarpitted by anything. Anything. 5 tactical marines? He will only kill 1 a turn. Guardsmen? Oh great he splatted 2. Anything with an invulnerable save? My point is he's a push over in combat.

This was more my point with DP armies, they focus on bubble wrapping the RT with precious troops and I will just ruin all the troops turn one lol. I think he will work best on the flanks where he can draw units away from your troops and add fire from range that is hard to ignore.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
I like the people talking about drop pods as an answer because Tau players never learned how to bubblewrap our strategic assets... The riptide starts the game on the table edge, behind 3 units of firewarriors (with supporting fire) who are behind an ADL. Everybody mentioned supported by Aun Va and a fireblade or two thrown in and hammerheads on the flanks to take out opposing armor.

Yes and this doesn't gain you any objectives does it. Tau are still very much a slow army and DP armies can easily get first blood and line breaker from you cramping up in one corner. I personally think DP armies are one of the best builds in 6th because they can really dominate in objective games by making your opponent bubble wrap himself into immobility.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PraetorDave wrote:
The Riptide is a shooting unit through and through. It's really weak in close combat. WS2, I2, and 3 attacks? He gets to hit almost everyone on 4's, many on 5's, and with only 3 attacks, he will probably only do one wound. If he gets in with a unit of TH/SS terminators, he is going down real fast. All he needs to do is lose by one wound (not that hard, since he won't be doing any), fail his Ld 9 (which is going to be at most 8), and then get swept. And I just remembered that terminators can't sweep, but many other similar units can. The point still stands.

Even worse, he will be tarpitted by anything. Anything. 5 tactical marines? He will only kill 1 a turn. Guardsmen? Oh great he splatted 2. Anything with an invulnerable save? My point is he's a push over in combat.

This was more my point with DP armies, they focus on bubble wrapping the RT with precious troops and I will just ruin all the troops turn one lol. I think he will work best on the flanks where he can draw units away from your troops and add fire from range that is hard to ignore.

Funny thing about kroot....cheap, troops that can hold objectives and can pop up in interesting places. You do have a point; the new edition will require me to reexamine my strategies with the army.

I actually love the new kroot. The krootox is basically an auto canon with the new rapid fire rules so infiltrating them will get you 3 cheap auto canons that can hit side armor and hurt MC for dirt cheap. I think they will still be key if playing a pure tau army but with allies not so much.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I actually love the new kroot. The krootox is basically an auto canon with the new rapid fire rules so infiltrating them will get you 3 cheap auto canons that can hit side armor and hurt MC for dirt cheap. I think they will still be key if playing a pure tau army but with allies not so much.

Let's not derail this thread, but kroot are horrible. For 2 more points, you can have a 4+ save, a great gun, and the supporting fire rule. Krootox are decent, but having the 60 points of ablative wounds really isn't worth it.

Well, after reading through 3 pages, I think I know the best answers.

Anything like warp rift, jotww, or test that removes. However the CSM's black mace wouldn't work because he's T6.

Vinidcare assassin taking out his invulnerable save.

Force weapons that are ap 2 such as GK termies with hammers or falchions for number of attacks.

Tarpit.

Drop pod his sorry ass.

 TheMind wrote:

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
Well, how about this? The GKs Vinidicare Assassin has one type of shot that takes away an invulnerable save. For you necrons, take Gk as allies, use scarabs to take his armor away, and Vindicare for the invulnerable.

For CSM.

My best guess would be having Abaddon, Kharn, maybe typhus, or a defiler get him. Another idea that oculd work is a bunch of Khorne Berzerkers. A tarpit could be Cultists getting him tied up every turn with a unit of 5-10 cultists is a funny thought, because he can never shoot.

The Vindicares shield penetrator only removes a piece of wargear that grants an invulnerable save. The 3++ comes from Nova Reactor which is a special rule, not wargear...strangely enough.

The Novacharged Ion Accelerator is a Str: 9 AP 2 Large Blase that can have interceptor on it. It will always be worth it, especially in an army that lost a good chuck of it's 9+ Str shooting. Secondly the Invulnerable save actually does come from a piece of wargear. The Riptide Shield Generator. It's normally a 5+, but the Nova Reactor turns it into a 3+. However it is still the same piece of wargear, and if it can't use the 5+ it can't get the 3+.

Where does it say that the Nova Reactor's 3++ comes from the Riptide Shield Generator?

 TheMind wrote:

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
Well, how about this? The GKs Vinidicare Assassin has one type of shot that takes away an invulnerable save. For you necrons, take Gk as allies, use scarabs to take his armor away, and Vindicare for the invulnerable.

For CSM.

My best guess would be having Abaddon, Kharn, maybe typhus, or a defiler get him. Another idea that oculd work is a bunch of Khorne Berzerkers. A tarpit could be Cultists getting him tied up every turn with a unit of 5-10 cultists is a funny thought, because he can never shoot.

The Vindicares shield penetrator only removes a piece of wargear that grants an invulnerable save. The 3++ comes from Nova Reactor which is a special rule, not wargear...strangely enough.

The Novacharged Ion Accelerator is a Str: 9 AP 2 Large Blase that can have interceptor on it. It will always be worth it, especially in an army that lost a good chuck of it's 9+ Str shooting. Secondly the Invulnerable save actually does come from a piece of wargear. The Riptide Shield Generator. It's normally a 5+, but the Nova Reactor turns it into a 3+. However it is still the same piece of wargear, and if it can't use the 5+ it can't get the 3+.

Re-read this myself, and your wrong. The Nova Reactor gives him the Nova Shield which grants the 3++. It's totally separate from the Riptide Shield Generator which gives it it's 5++.

Yeah, it would be nice to take a dirt cheap Grey Knights allied detachment just for the Vindicare and take away his shield, but not that easy I guess.

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
However the CSM's black mace wouldn't work because he's T6.

It could still work. 5 + D6 Attacks with Fleshbane should be enough to take down the Riptide in one attack. Just hope the Daemon survives when the Riptide decides to smash and Instant-Kill it.

Chaos Deamon Prine, mon, balesword.

With my slaanesh daemons if I ever face it (likely as I have at least 2 tau players in the club I go to) I'll just send a squad of daemonettes and a herald with witstealer and beguilement

bunch of rending attacks + re-rolls to hit + failed Ini test upon wounding means another wound = hopefully he's hurt.

And if fiends = I 0 works, then good tactic so he can't hit you back.


Not reliable, but safer, and can easily tie him up.

Is he fearless? if not then he can (even if it is a small chance) fail his fear test and become WS1... but anyway.

Tessaract Labrinyth?

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
Yeah, it would be nice to take a dirt cheap Grey Knights allied detachment just for the Vindicare and take away his shield, but not that easy I guess.

Coteaz, 3x Warrior Acolytes with nothing, Vindicare - 269pts

Inquisitor, 5 man Strike Squad with nothing, Vindicare - 270pts

After reading this I'm not seeing a very strong TAC list for guard if you don't use artillery platforms (ie the toughness based ones). The one battle against tau even with lots of flyers cost me dearly.