Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

After seeing the new C:SM book and the variety it allows in choosing chapter tactics and allowing you to build your own army it got me thinking.

Would you be in favor of CSM getting a codex supplement that would give them chapter tactics and more freedom to design their army with personality?

Yes, definitely

This is something most of us were hoping for before ANY of the new Marine books came out. It would be nice to have a few USRs for some of the more popular legions.

I'm a fan of customisation, and I think we require some sort of buff to be in line with our Loyalist counterparts. Perhaps new supplements for the Big 4 Legions?

Yes please!

I find myself unable to vote with the options given.

My vote would be 'no'... but not because I think they are good enough (the current codex is ridiculously bland) but simply because supplements will bring about the end of all civilisation as we know it.

I would rather that they receive a Codex update that actually makes them interesting, so we can all forget that the last two codexes ever happened.

I'm wondering if they did something like that and how it would affect cult troops and marks. Like having Emperor's Children Warband Tactics means you can't have Plague Marines or any mark besides Slaanesh.

while I agree, that supplements are well........... a pain, I say that because they come in at 50.00 for not a lot of content and are that same price even if you pick them up in digital form. I do think they are however the future for GW considering the money earning potential for them, while allowing them to pop out codexs at a faster rate and still give them an option for releasing new material after a codex has been released.

As for the supplement I'm not a CSM player at all but I think its a shame that they don't have the options for customization that their loyalist counterparts do ( I want to say I'm really happy GW did what they did with the new C:SM), Im a huge fan of customizable armies. It makes it a lot more fun to play against others when there isn't just one stagnant list they're going to bring because that's all that works.

I don't think this would be terribly difficult to make and implement into the game and I think it would sell well, so a win for everyone in my book.

I would take a LEGION tactics supplement any day. Just give us World Eaters, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Death Guard, 1k Sons, Emperor's Children. Black legion already has theirs.

I'd be fine with a special character tax even.

I'm hoping that future CSM supplements will provide us with unique rules that help differentiate the legions in the game.

Given the trends, they would have to release a supplement that switches some units FOC around. Otherwise the bastards won't sell.

The tau supplement is selling for two reasons: Battlesuits are troops and the ability to ally for more riptides/special nodes.

In contrast, while the BL one allows for chosen to be troops, and upgrade one group of termies, as well as different artefacts, it's just not as good atm. While massed chosen are excellent, no one notices that.

Maybe I'm just dumb and don't know what the Legion Supplements would look like in comparison to their Loyalist counterparts, however I feel like they tried to do that with Marks and such. Like the Chaos Allegiances were supposed to be compensatory to the SM tactics.

Would I like to see more? Who wouldn't?! XD

 Lobukia wrote:
I would take a LEGION tactics supplement any day. Just give us World Eaters, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Death Guard, 1k Sons, Emperor's Children. Black legion already has theirs.

I'd be fine with a special character tax even.

Uh, you forgot Alpha Legion there boss...

 LoyalistAlphaLegion wrote:
Uh, you forgot Alpha Legion there boss...

Wait, what? Never heard about them. Like, totally.

They should do it just like Forgeworld did. A quick update and that´s all.

No supplement thanks. The Black Legion one is awful. And they are not gonna do an all-legion supplement, mostly because that´s what countless players have been asking for since forever. It would be a major success, but GW feeds on our suffering, not on our wallets.

They shouldn't get stuff. They already have the helldrake and can take up to 4 of them , it is enough . They don't need extra rules to make the army better. Plaguemarines are cheap and resilient , same with oblits etc If chaos players want something different they should ally in some demons .

Fluffwise it also wouldn't make sense , there is no legions anymore , just small bands of marines from different units. Unlike loyalists , who have distinct traits , csm are all the same and those that are different already have their separate cult units.

Makumba wrote:
They shouldn't get stuff. They already have the helldrake and can take up to 4 of them , it is enough . They don't need extra rules to make the army better. Plaguemarines are cheap and resilient , same with oblits etc If chaos players want something different they should ally in some demons .

Fluffwise it also wouldn't make sense , there is no legions anymore , just small bands of marines from different units. Unlike loyalists , who have distinct traits , csm are all the same and those that are different already have their separate cult units.

Ahhh, another one of these posts that continues to parrot that information people seem to get wrong.

No Distinct traits hmm? Despite how many following the Codex Astartes to a tee and still getting their own codex? Considering that their "distinct traits" are so minor compared to every single other faction, despite the fact that you don't have an entire 'chapter' or 'warband' on the field, for example.

Despite the Warbands being mostly separate, such as a World Eater Warband, filled with Khorne Daemon Engines, Khornate Warriors with Khorne daemon weapons in blood and daemon forged armor with slaughterfiends and vehicles marked by Khorne. This example would be far greater in scope then any Loyalist Codex, and would certainly beat out something like say, Blood Angels in uniqueness. Because the blood angels have minor differences compared to C:SM, while a World Eater codex would be drastically different then a Thousand Sons codex.

Here's a good quote from CalgarsPimpHand.

This argument is weak, old, and deserves to die a painful death. It's irrelevant at best, and honestly disrespectful toward Chaos Marine players who have been saddled with bland, insipid dexes for many years while loyal chapters are showered with rules and models.

Why? Allow me to rant:

The traitor legions did mostly break up into warbands, to a greater or lesser extent depending on the legion. And the Word Bearers are the most unified of the traitor legions, still operating as a basically intact legion. Congrats, you got that correct. But you know who else also split up their legion organization? All the loyalist legions (minus the Space Wolves). In fact, in many cases, there are fragments of traitor legions still operating in formations as large as or larger than any codex chapter. Take for instance the Iron Warriors, who retain a great degree of cohesion and still nominally operate as Grand Companies, similar in size to loyalist chapters. Or Typhus's Plague Fleet, which rivals the fleet of any individual codex chapter. Even the freakin' Alpha Legion still coordinate among their independent cells scattered across the galaxy.

So while it's true the traitor legions mostly don't operate as unified organizations tens of thousands of marines strong, it's also true that no one does anymore, except possibly the Black Templars. But even the traitors who did scatter still fight as warbands whose sizes easily range from dozens of marines to many hundreds. And those warbands are sometimes comprised mostly, or entirely, of marines from a single traitor legion. Even the most completely shattered legions, like the World Eaters, probably still have some warbands kicking around comprising a few dozen World Eaters and no one else.

Incidentally, we play a game called Warhammer 40,000 where you're not likely to have more than a few dozen models on the table at once. So when my army is a few dozen Night Lords, and yours is a few dozen Blood Angels, why does your army deserve an entire codex, while mine gets a few pages of fluff and not a single rule or special character? Heck, there are only a few hundred Blood Angels left at this point, and they don't even diverge from the Codex Astartes as much as the Black Templars. Why not just roll them into Codex: Space Marines and give them a Chapter Trait? They're basically a warband leftover from the splitting of the loyalist legions after the scouring.

Do you see where I'm going with this? Don't condescendingly tell someone to go read the Horus Heresy books to learn about why their own army doesn't deserve rules when you seem to have a poor grasp on the fluff yourself (and appear to play an army that barely needs its own codex anyway).

 LoyalistAlphaLegion wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
I would take a LEGION tactics supplement any day. Just give us World Eaters, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Death Guard, 1k Sons, Emperor's Children. Black legion already has theirs.

I'd be fine with a special character tax even.

deleted by Alpharius

Whew, fixed that just in time.

Makumba wrote:
They shouldn't get stuff. They already have the helldrake and can take up to 4 of them , it is enough . They don't need extra rules to make the army better. Plaguemarines are cheap and resilient , same with oblits etc If chaos players want something different they should ally in some demons .

Fluffwise it also wouldn't make sense , there is no legions anymore , just small bands of marines from different units. Unlike loyalists , who have distinct traits , csm are all the same and those that are different already have their separate cult units.

Okay then ready for this? Oh tau don't deserve anything because of that riptide and those Eldar don't deserve anything because of I dunno the ability to spam the most cost effecient and arguably broken transports that are better than many tanks in the game. Bravo, a codex has a cheap unit in PM, a good choice in Oblits, the helldrake, and a few other good picks and that is it. Also then I say that the SM book shouldn't have gained their traits since they could just ally with pretty much the majority of other factions.

Also it WOULD make sense. Here's the problem with saying everything is a warband, the warband are like chapters. Some of them are very small... others are larger than what chapters are commonly regarded to be. Through all that though, they have diistinctive styles. Just because certain legions fragmented dramatically doesn't mean that they don't still follow the tenents of their original legion. Along with that, look at the Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, and even Black Legion for large legions that are decently-> phenominally organized and unified through it all and still follow many of their old traditions to this day. Also they are more diverse than all the loyalists that follow the codex to a tee only having a tendency for a few extra guns and the sorts.

Even disregarding the former legions, there are several sects of chaos. The khornate followers, Slaanesh worshipers, Tzeentch tricksters, nurgle fans, worship all the gods, worship none of the gods, and use the gods to your benefit.

Makumba wrote:
They shouldn't get stuff. They already have the helldrake and can take up to 4 of them , it is enough . They don't need extra rules to make the army better. Plaguemarines are cheap and resilient , same with oblits etc If chaos players want something different they should ally in some demons .

Fluffwise it also wouldn't make sense , there is no legions anymore , just small bands of marines from different units. Unlike loyalists , who have distinct traits , csm are all the same and those that are different already have their separate cult units.

Not sure if being sarcastic or trolling...

 Lobukia wrote:

 LoyalistAlphaLegion wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
I would take a LEGION tactics supplement any day. Just give us World Eaters, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Death Guard, 1k Sons, Emperor's Children. Black legion already has theirs.

I'd be fine with a special character tax even.

deleted by nobody at all, there was never a anything here only your imagination

Whew, fixed that just in time.

*flicks sweat off head* Now we are safe.

Despite the Warbands being mostly separate, such as a World Eater Warband, filled with Khorne Daemon Engines, Khornate Warriors with Khorne daemon weapons in blood and daemon forged armor with slaughterfiends and vehicles marked by Khorne. This example would be far greater in scope then any Loyalist Codex, and would certainly beat out something like say, Blood Angels in uniqueness. Because the blood angels have minor differences compared to C:SM, while a World Eater codex would be drastically different then a Thousand Sons codex.

I don't know who pimp hand is , but chaos writers say there are no legions anymore . the codex writer say it so , the BL writers say it so , even the codex says they broke up . If the fluff says they are all mixed up , then an avarge is taken out . And then yes you have berzerkers who can be WE and DG who are plague marines , GW sees that they are different and there for gives options to run such units . CSM are all the same there for they get one option , if GW thought that csm for Iron Warriors and Word Bearers are different , they would give options to make it so .Maybe by adding squad leaders like telion , I don't know am not a game designer .

Blood angels on the other hand are different from ultramarines or space wolfs, they have their different weapons and different vehicles , honor guards . Yes , they are codex , but also have the whole cool vampire thing going on with DC and mefiston . This makes them drasticly different from Space Wolfs or Ultramarines . Chaos marines don't have that . Only chaos players seem to not understand that the times of their old 4th ed codex are gone . Besides nothing stops them from painting their models in a different way , in fact am sure it is encouraged .

But the real truth is that chaos players just want more special snow flake rules , more OP stuff like helldrakes and if it is possible more helldrakes.

Makumba wrote:

Despite the Warbands being mostly separate, such as a World Eater Warband, filled with Khorne Daemon Engines, Khornate Warriors with Khorne daemon weapons in blood and daemon forged armor with slaughterfiends and vehicles marked by Khorne. This example would be far greater in scope then any Loyalist Codex, and would certainly beat out something like say, Blood Angels in uniqueness. Because the blood angels have minor differences compared to C:SM, while a World Eater codex would be drastically different then a Thousand Sons codex.

I don't know who pimp hand is , but chaos writers say there are no legions anymore . the codex writer say it so , the BL writers say it so , even the codex says they broke up . If the fluff says they are all mixed up , then an avarge is taken out . And then yes you have berzerkers who can be WE and DG who are plague marines , GW sees that they are different and there for gives options to run such units . CSM are all the same there for they get one option , if GW thought that csm for Iron Warriors and Word Bearers are different , they would give options to make it so .Maybe by adding squad leaders like telion , I don't know am not a game designer .

Blood angels on the other hand are different from ultramarines or space wolfs, they have their different weapons and different vehicles , honor guards . Yes , they are codex , but also have the whole cool vampire thing going on with DC and mefiston . This makes them drasticly different from Space Wolfs or Ultramarines . Chaos marines don't have that . Only chaos players seem to not understand that the times of their old 4th ed codex are gone . Besides nothing stops them from painting their models in a different way , in fact am sure it is encouraged .

But the real truth is that chaos players just want more special snow flake rules , more OP stuff like helldrakes and if it is possible more helldrakes.

Okay then. Please grab all the marine players including space wolves and grey knights and shove them into one codex because they aren't diverse enough to diserve 50 thousand codices and the sorts.

Oh and I don't want that. I want to be able to play my favorite god army without having to remember that by the very nature of even specializing in one god even with almost every model having the opportunity to have the mark of tzeentch, I am cutting off any capability of playing. Also... ANY supplement is just adding special snowflake rules on top of others. GK, SW, BA are all SM+ or ++ and the SM codex is the magical fairy land of special rules. And I gotta ask why did the two xenos races get supplements when they both are arguably more broken and have far better internal balance than chaos. And for all the claims the legions mean nothing... then why does the codex have blurbs for each and every single ancient legion? It's because although some have fractured horridly and others have been able to be warbands that are still closer to their legion status (Iron Warriors are more like chapters, Word Bearers are generally pretty united), it is because certain warbands aren't melting pots. Heck, chaos gods hate eachother and have an arch nemesis (Tzeentch and Nurgle aren't pals)

Also please remember that Tau, Eldar, and IG also have many different regiment styles. Yet are there always options for it? Not quite. Bar just bringing more of THIS unit or THAT unit.... there really isn't a way. Unless you grab a forgeowrld book or the new supplement books. WHat about the Tau farsight? Obviously they are different yet until now they have been in the same codex as all other tau. Eldar? All those different places yet only recently did they make a Eldar book for it.. IG? IG are some of the most diverse when it comes to regiments just because of the planets they are raised on yet they lost doctrines.

---------------------------
But how does BA deserve its own codex when BT don't? Why don't Salamanders or any others get their own? Salamanders have their own relics and due to their nature probably their own vehicles. Finally, themes are worthless. If so, Salamanders also deserve a codex. And what about you know the egyptian Thousand Sons? Or the barbarian World Eaters? or the plague inducers? Or the ear splitting mad men? Or the devout and religious forces of chaos? Or the chaos members that don't even use chaos icons and the sorts? How is it that their relics, unique weapons (and trust me chaos has far more diverse weapons and vehicles) with more varied members some being all warped up and some not even some daemon prince leaders somehow less diverse than some vampire marines deserving their own codex when so many other loyalists don't?

 Lobukia wrote:

 LoyalistAlphaLegion wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
I would take a LEGION tactics supplement any day. Just give us World Eaters, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Death Guard, 1k Sons, Emperor's Children. Black legion already has theirs.

I'd be fine with a special character tax even.

deleted by Alpharius

Whew, fixed that just in time.

Heh, you're alright

That aside, I'd slit ... open a whole sack of cash into GW's money pool to be able to play a CSM army that isn't Mark o' Nurgle day in and out, or can just not rely on the daemonforge stuff (i.e. Heldrakes). I play casual (thank some god), so I don't mind as much that my AL is kinda* gimped, but it's got no flavor to it. If I played Raven Guard (or whatever the loyalist analogue is to the AL), I'd have my own named character, tactics geared toward my play style, and that smug satisfaction knowing MY army is cared about among-st the higher ups, which I seem to see mostly in SM players.

* By kinda, I mean that if I didn't play casual (or just fought IG at all, or Tau, or Eldar, or SM) I'd have more losses to my name then letters.

Well supplements seem kinda cheap. You pay almost as much for the supplement as you do the codex, so why not just write better codices? I mean, why does SM need 5+ books to cover things that are relatively the same? Why would Chaos or Tau or anyone else need supplements? Leave that sort of thing to Forgeworld. Clump all the SM Chapters into one big book, expand the CSM Legions and do the same for other books. Have all the books come pre-cooked and let people go to FW for spices. The stuff in the Farsight Supplement could have easily been added to their main codex.

darkcloak wrote:
Well supplements seem kinda cheap. You pay almost as much for the supplement as you do the codex, so why noy just write better codices? I mean, why does SM need 5+ books to cover things that are relatively the same? Why would Chaos or Tau or anyone else need supplements? Leave that sort of thing to Forgeworld. Clump all the SM Chapters into one big book, expand the CSM Legions and do the same for other books. Have all the books come pre-cooked and let people go to FW for spices.

Actually I'll admit I concur with you to some extent. Whilst I wish for supplements, that is primarily because of a hunch that 6th edition will be here longer than other editions if the supplements are succesful enough. Also because I'd be spending way too much on 50k supplements. Salamanders you say? Unique guardsmen ones for those more connected to line guardsman, mech, armoured, and the sorts? The SoB and Inquisitor you say? All of these chaos supplements? Why yes please!

Makumba wrote:

Despite the Warbands being mostly separate, such as a World Eater Warband, filled with Khorne Daemon Engines, Khornate Warriors with Khorne daemon weapons in blood and daemon forged armor with slaughterfiends and vehicles marked by Khorne. This example would be far greater in scope then any Loyalist Codex, and would certainly beat out something like say, Blood Angels in uniqueness. Because the blood angels have minor differences compared to C:SM, while a World Eater codex would be drastically different then a Thousand Sons codex.

I don't know who pimp hand is , but chaos writers say there are no legions anymore . the codex writer say it so , the BL writers say it so , even the codex says they broke up . If the fluff says they are all mixed up , then an avarge is taken out . And then yes you have berzerkers who can be WE and DG who are plague marines , GW sees that they are different and there for gives options to run such units . CSM are all the same there for they get one option , if GW thought that csm for Iron Warriors and Word Bearers are different , they would give options to make it so .Maybe by adding squad leaders like telion , I don't know am not a game designer .

Blood angels on the other hand are different from ultramarines or space wolfs, they have their different weapons and different vehicles , honor guards . Yes , they are codex , but also have the whole cool vampire thing going on with DC and mefiston . This makes them drasticly different from Space Wolfs or Ultramarines . Chaos marines don't have that . Only chaos players seem to not understand that the times of their old 4th ed codex are gone . Besides nothing stops them from painting their models in a different way , in fact am sure it is encouraged .

But the real truth is that chaos players just want more special snow flake rules , more OP stuff like helldrakes and if it is possible more helldrakes.

Ahhh, so your trolling, gotcha.

Makumba wrote:

Despite the Warbands being mostly separate, such as a World Eater Warband, filled with Khorne Daemon Engines, Khornate Warriors with Khorne daemon weapons in blood and daemon forged armor with slaughterfiends and vehicles marked by Khorne. This example would be far greater in scope then any Loyalist Codex, and would certainly beat out something like say, Blood Angels in uniqueness. Because the blood angels have minor differences compared to C:SM, while a World Eater codex would be drastically different then a Thousand Sons codex.

I don't know who pimp hand is , but chaos writers say there are no legions anymore . the codex writer say it so , the BL writers say it so , even the codex says they broke up . If the fluff says they are all mixed up , then an avarge is taken out . And then yes you have berzerkers who can be WE and DG who are plague marines , GW sees that they are different and there for gives options to run such units . CSM are all the same there for they get one option , if GW thought that csm for Iron Warriors and Word Bearers are different , they would give options to make it so .Maybe by adding squad leaders like telion , I don't know am not a game designer .

Blood angels on the other hand are different from ultramarines or space wolfs, they have their different weapons and different vehicles , honor guards . Yes , they are codex , but also have the whole cool vampire thing going on with DC and mefiston . This makes them drasticly different from Space Wolfs or Ultramarines . Chaos marines don't have that . Only chaos players seem to not understand that the times of their old 4th ed codex are gone . Besides nothing stops them from painting their models in a different way , in fact am sure it is encouraged .

But the real truth is that chaos players just want more special snow flake rules , more OP stuff like helldrakes and if it is possible more helldrakes.

Your hatred for heldrakes seems to be getting in the way of your ability to make a reasoned argument or even construct a readable sentence. Paragraph one and paragraph two are essentially completely contradictory.

As a Word Bearer player, I am sick of people saying they are scattered war bands. We are Legio and proud of it! So, after you learn English go read some WB novels. For the record, I don't use drakes and never will. Just because you can't learn to bring some AA, don't lump us all together . We just want a balanced codex that represents our favorite legions. We don't want OP or snowflake status. Is that too much to ask for?

 Musashi363 wrote:
As a Word Bearer player, I am sick of people saying they are scattered war bands. We are Legio and proud of it! So, after you learn English go read some WB novels. For the record, I don't use drakes and never will. Just because you can't learn to bring some AA, don't lump us all together . We just want a balanced codex that represents our favorite legions. We don't want OP or snowflake status. Is that too much to ask for?

This.

I often use C:SM CT:IH for my Iron Warriors because (imo) it is a better representation of Iron Warriors in general. And it's a shame, because it means I rarely get to use daemon engines. I would love to see a supplement that gave at least the legions* a 'chapter trait'.

_e

*No, they don't fight as legions. But when you see DG Bezerkers, let me know.