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I'd like to see more supplements. Variety doesn't suck.

Just print the damn things already. I want REAL books.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
The problem with that, is that if you use "Khorne Berserkers" how are you supposed to model them in an Iron Warriors army, or Death Guard? In order to play in most pickup games around my area, if you are using Khorne Berserkers in your list, regardless of what you say your army is, those berserkers had better have bunny ears, even if it goes against the fluff of an old legion.

I agree that the old legions who fell to chaos would still have "assault troops" but there are many who do not follow any gods or any particular god, so therefore they wouldn't have Khorne Berserkers, and therefore it would be unfluffy to take them in your force.

It is sad that you play in a meta where your berserkers "must" have bunny ears. Those miniatures look terrible... As for modeling berserkers for Iron warriors or Death guard, just kit out appropriate looking models with chain swords and axes, bolt pistols and a selection of plasma pistols. Add extra details to the models to highlight their "elite" status and go from there. It is a totally simple conversion project and would be alot more satisfying that using bunny eared marines. Your Iron warriors could have bionic parts, and could be modeled with cool looking powered chainsaw like weapons (I am imagining the goblin bloodbowl star player with the chainsaw who's name is eluding me at the moment). Meanwhile the death guard "berserkers" would be bloated, poxy and disgusting just like all the other death guard.

Your last line is just completely missing the point. You are not including khorne berserkers in your force. You are including an aggressive, elite assault unit that uses the *rules* of "khorne berserkers". There is a massive difference here. I am not saying play Alpha Legion and just have random units of khorne berserkers dolled up like khorne berserkers and ranting blood for the blood god six ways to Sunday in your army. I am saying add an assault unit to your AL force, painted up in alpha legion colors, converted to have the weapons listed for berserkers and using the rules for berserkers, but they are NOT actually khorne berserkers. The mark on the unit becomes a mechanic and not a hard core dedication to a chaos god. The former option would be, as you say, unfluffy, while the second is just fine. You really need to stop obsessing over the name of the unit so much.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:
I'd like to see more supplements. Variety doesn't suck.

Just print the damn things already. I want REAL books.

Yes real books are a nice touch. Annoying release of ebook only in the hope of getting people to buy the things twice once they actually print a book.

Skriker

There is not a single rule in the chaos codex that requires Night Lords to not have any marks on their units, nor is there any restriction on having slaanesh and khorne in a force together in CSM, though I would argue that playing night lords and using slaanesh and khorne marks to set your units up as you prefer is not actually play slaanesh and khorne in a force together because you are playing nightlords and not a mix of Emeperor's Children and World Eater's.

There is none, but at the same time most people are finding that it's far better to do space marines for their Chaos Codex's then the actual CSM codex, which is kinda depressing when you can use the Special Snowflake chapters and get your Warband over the actual Chaos Codex.

The Black Legion codex supplement is now available in print, but only in the Chaos Collection, which includes the CSM book, The CD book, and the BL Book, along with artwork book. Hopefully they will make it available soon just by itself.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
There is none, but at the same time most people are finding that it's far better to do space marines for their Chaos Codex's then the actual CSM codex, which is kinda depressing when you can use the Special Snowflake chapters and get your Warband over the actual Chaos Codex.

Sadly this is what we get with codecies when there is no unified vision for each edition of the game and codex authors are left to their own devices almost completely. This lack of vision is also what let's some books be super awesome while others are just ok and still others are completely meh. :\ It still confounds me that after so many years it is almost as if the authors of a new codex will lock themselves in a room away from any and all other influences, including the current rules and existing codecies, to write their "masterpiece" which in the end can fit in nicely, not fit in at all, or be way too over the top and there doesn't seem to be anyone overseeing the process or calling anyone out on making lame or OP codex in the least...

Skriker

 chaosvoices wrote:
The Black Legion codex supplement is now available in print, but only in the Chaos Collection, which includes the CSM book, The CD book, and the BL Book, along with artwork book. Hopefully they will make it available soon just by itself.

I've been told by the local gw manager it will be available on saturday, presumably to order.

I've been pestering him for 3 weeks, since the last WD said it was out...

I agree with most of what the guys here say. the main book itself already described the renegades and black legion quite happily. Where the cult troops were, just the warbands who had split up and came and gave the BL or RCs a hand. Hence just a single unit fighting alongside the main force. (Except that under half of the legions might as well be smurfs for all the differences that they seemed to get out of our book).

What we want though is a full army of our given flavour. With something that suits what they are about. Yes the Zerkers may have fractured and are just a bunch of loons (Though why there would even be any left I have no idea - Where are they getting their recruits from? Surely those recruits, may be Khorny, but the bionics wouldnt be there). The others may have fractured as well, but lets face it not as badly.

Don't you think it likely that a "warband" would number around 100 guys? Heck even 50. Then look at how many of those dudes you have in your 1500pt list? Why wouldn't that be a single legion force still under 1 crazy lord/sob.

Trolling aside (Looking at you Mugumbo, whatever your name is), we don't want to play black legion armies.... Hence why we have 10 different legions to choose from (Yes counting one of the unknown primarchs here).

I originally started a khorne army. But having 1 lord, Kharne and as many zerkers as I can fit on a board doesn't really fit with what their legion was (Well kinda). But giving them something else to use, Drop pods, less shooty and a fanatical devotion to killing pinkos... Would just be nice.

I enjoyed the last book. Still enjoy the new book most of the time (Not against Tau). But desperately wanted to be able to split my army into better flavours. Pretty much exactly what I could do if I was a loyalist player.

My only hope is that they bring out some suppliments that allow me to do this instead.

And tbh it will only promote "others" from downloading PDFs of the suppliments now that we've got to fork out all of that cash for the books.

But if you want to play IW, NL, AL, WBs the current book really does let you down. yes you can still manage it.

Oh and for the troller, I think you'll find most CSM players don't really like the dragon that much, they just feel they need 3 of them to be comfortable with their own inadequicies. Personally I prefer to play a Chaos Marine army, not a cultist army. Thats now why I got into the game. Having a flier is good, cause we never got one. But I would also have preferred to have a troop carrier drop ship/drop pod as part of our book. Just cause we're chaos marines, don't mean we've stopped using space ships and (most of) the other trappings of a marine army. Sure it's OP. But just cause you don't like them, don't be a hater on the user. I can't stand the Tau codex cause I get tabled every time. Doesn't mean I hate the riptide.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh actually Mukumbu. Since you hate the dragon so.

If you did get a Khorne Zerker suppliment that prevented them from having a Helturkey entirely and forced them to use actual troops, assault style armies... don't you think that would be something better?

Even with allies, you'd only be left with the 1 drake at that point.

Just sayin.

I would like to hear what the Black Templers players have to say now that they've been rolled up into the main book.

Anyone know?

 chaosvoices wrote:
The Black Legion codex supplement is now available in print, but only in the Chaos Collection, which includes the CSM book, The CD book, and the BL Book, along with artwork book. Hopefully they will make it available soon just by itself.

The black legion supplement is now available to pre order on its own

I got to page two and stopped reading because I had to get something off of my chest.

You KNOW GW doesn't care about Chaos because they've done everything in reverse with this double-edged sword attitude about how to make every good thing ,suck simultaneously.

Case in point: CHAOS DOESN'T EVEN HAVE STORM BOLTERS FOR IT'S TERMINATORS!!! We have COMBI-BOLTERS. The crap Chosen upgrade too! Combi-bolters! Rapid-fire, no assault, combi-suck bolters.

Chaos is pirating Imperium technology....haven't gotten any Storm Bolters yet....or Thunder Hammers, or Storm Shields, or Chapter Tactics. We don't get all the vehicles like different Land Raiders and flame-tanks like the Sisters of Battle get. GW DOESN'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THERE ARE WOMEN IN THE CHAOS ARMY, OUTSIDE OF DAEMONETTES WHO HAD TO DIE AND BE REINCARNATED AS A SLAANESHI DAEMON TO BE RECOGNIZED. We don't get assault transport drop ships that hover and shoot through themselves, and we don't get to shoot 4 aerial weapons off in one firing run.

And SM players have the GALL to cry foul about a Heldrake? The best thing about it, aside from Daemonforge and it's invulnerable save is that even if you knock out the baleflamer, it can still vector strike! But no! We screwed up the vector strike enough so that it's no threat to loyalist Land Raiders.

It's like they're trying just hard enough to pretend like they're saying "We're trying and we care." They don't. They need some real CSM inspiration over there to give the freaking loyalists a run for the money instead of this "Well...we won't give you chapter tactics....but if you pay for these two things you can kinda have something like that! You know with those Chaos Gods ya'll like so much more than your Legions?"

Sorry, but if Chaos get's shafted with Marks of Devotion to the Chaos Gods then Space Marines should have to buy Marks of Devotion to their freaking Primarchs or the Emperor himself. How would that chap your ass, Loyalists?

No more Blood Angels. No more Black Templar. All you get is Mark of the Emperor: +1 Toughness. Or Mark of Dorn: +1 Ballistic Skill + Banner of Fists gives your Bolters rapid fire. Not even rapid fire at any range. Just normal rapid fire your bolters already have.

So it's just flat out insulting to Chaos players for anyone to think for one second we're not being booted in the Codex. Hell, they would've been better off releasing a Codex that was like the Black Legion supplemental and then releasing a supplemental to the Chaos Gods themselves. Do it the other way around instead of this crap-fest we've got now. :\

I'm a sisters player and sometimes I come close to feeling sorry for Chaos players.
"Next up in our release schedule, Chaos Supplement: Warbands! Now you can have an unispired, boring warband of your own! What? You want...legions? Well...um...you can't have legions. I don't care how many times you ask. No, I don't care that there are still enormous legions around, you aint getting them. So stop asking." - GW

TheRedWingArmada wrote:

And SM players have the GALL to cry foul about a Heldrake? The best thing about it, aside from Daemonforge and it's invulnerable save is that even if you knock out the baleflamer, it can still vector strike! But no! We screwed up the vector strike enough so that it's no threat to loyalist Land Raiders.

Wait. Your complaint is that the Helldrake hs been nerfed because it cannot hurt one] expensive unit in C:SM while it murders just about everything else?

I've read some hilariously ridiculous complaints, but this one is way up there.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

TheRedWingArmada wrote:

And SM players have the GALL to cry foul about a Heldrake? The best thing about it, aside from Daemonforge and it's invulnerable save is that even if you knock out the baleflamer, it can still vector strike! But no! We screwed up the vector strike enough so that it's no threat to loyalist Land Raiders.

Wait. Your complaint is that the Helldrake hs been nerfed because it cannot hurt one] expensive unit in C:SM while it murders just about everything else?

I've read some hilariously ridiculous complaints, but this one is way up there.

No. It's not that the Heldrake was nerfed. It CAME nerfed. Especially when you consider crap like a Vendetta throwing four Lascannon shots out of its nose into the ass of a Heldrake, while still having room left over for Deathstrike Missiles or whatever the hell other OP piece of crap the Space Marines can get there hands on.

I like the Heldrake. I won't apologize for it. Even with it's stunted weapon options, it is still a good flier while probably not good for fighting other fliers. Personally, I'd rather have Hell Talons. And the only thing Heldrakes murder that Space Marine players are sad about is the Baleflamer. Honestly, ya'll don't give a crap about the Hades Autocannon, in fact you'd prefer it because it would make our Heldrakes suck a little more. But we had to have something, even if it's a failed attempt at feigning consideration for ones business model and those invested in it.

If you bothered to read my post instead of Cherry Pick the point about Heldrake, you'd realize my problem is with the complete under-equpping of the Traitor Legions.

It's pretty bad when other Space Marine players look at you and ask "What's a combi bolter?"

You know your storm bolters? "Yeah." It's like that but worse. "Yeah, but what is it?" Exactly like it sounds. Two bolters duct taped together. :\

EVEN THE LANGUAGE ISN'T THE SAME. We have "combi" bolters. Space Marines have Twin-Linked Boltguns. One of these sounds like a weapon and the other sounds like a McGuyver experiment.

So, in 10,000 years the Chaos Marines haven't made ANY changes to a land raider?

 MWHistorian wrote:
So, in 10,000 years the Chaos Marines haven't made ANY changes to a land raider?

They put spikes on it.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
So, in 10,000 years the Chaos Marines haven't made ANY changes to a land raider?

They put spikes on it.

And more guns, according to a description for Chaos Rhinos. And rams...with spikes.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/560292.page

I stand corrected.
(facepalm)

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

TheRedWingArmada wrote:

And SM players have the GALL to cry foul about a Heldrake? The best thing about it, aside from Daemonforge and it's invulnerable save is that even if you knock out the baleflamer, it can still vector strike! But no! We screwed up the vector strike enough so that it's no threat to loyalist Land Raiders.

Wait. Your complaint is that the Helldrake hs been nerfed because it cannot hurt one] expensive unit in C:SM while it murders just about everything else?

I've read some hilariously ridiculous complaints, but this one is way up there.

I think the rage came from the fact that mansa or whatever was raging and saying they don't deserve a supplement because of a heldrake in particular whining about how broken op it is (even though there are many other broken units in this game that also get upgrades)

I don't think that's really what you should be going up against AV 14 with anyway, Most armies struggle against that. Its why you tool up on Melta Chosen or Nurgle. Or chainfists.

Anyway apologies for his link. Its probably rubbish, but this would be pretty awesome.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/khorne-codex-supplement-with-cover-art.html

Finally something that makes World Eaters similar to how they would get onto the field other than lord, zerkers and lots of Rhinos.

Zerkers in drop pods and jugger zerkers. With a 6+ FnP for the butchers nails. Thats what I'm talking about.

If you could do something that specific for each actual legion, we'd have so much variety in the forces people bring to the table.

We'd not see the internet listings of 4 heldrakes and cultists from anyone but the hard core competetives.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I'm a sisters player and sometimes I come close to feeling sorry for Chaos players.
"Next up in our release schedule, Chaos Supplement: Warbands! Now you can have an unispired, boring warband of your own! What? You want...legions? Well...um...you can't have legions. I don't care how many times you ask. No, I don't care that there are still enormous legions around, you aint getting them. So stop asking." - GW

My guess is there are 3 "countdown clocks" on the walls of GW HQ.

One clock is for Squats, One for Chaos Legions, and one is now present for Sisters. And they get reset each time we mention how much we want one or all of them back

I just want a better warlord trait table, and artefacts. Im fine with 2 pages of additional stuff.

Oh, and FREE USR modifiers for the existing units in the book. Turn my CSM Plague Marines into 4+FNP Plague Marines that all carry Nurgles Rot, which would be like a Soul Blaze thing.

Or Night Vision and Stealth for Night Lords, with a first turn is ALWAYS night rule, and on further 4+ rolls it can keep going that way, like the damn Necrons can do. I mean, Night Lords bombard the atmosphere just to do this!

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I'm a sisters player and sometimes I come close to feeling sorry for Chaos players.
"Next up in our release schedule, Chaos Supplement: Warbands! Now you can have an unispired, boring warband of your own! What? You want...legions? Well...um...you can't have legions. I don't care how many times you ask. No, I don't care that there are still enormous legions around, you aint getting them. So stop asking." - GW

My guess is there are 3 "countdown clocks" on the walls of GW HQ.

One clock is for Squats, One for Chaos Legions, and one is now present for Sisters. And they get reset each time we mention how much we want one or all of them back

Sounds crazy, but it does seem to fit the facts. I think you may be on to something.

Yeah I have this impression too.

 Grumzimus wrote:
I don't think that's really what you should be going up against AV 14 with anyway, Most armies struggle against that. Its why you tool up on Melta Chosen or Nurgle. Or chainfists.

Anyway apologies for his link. Its probably rubbish, but this would be pretty awesome.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/khorne-codex-supplement-with-cover-art.html

Finally something that makes World Eaters similar to how they would get onto the field other than lord, zerkers and lots of Rhinos.

Zerkers in drop pods and jugger zerkers. With a 6+ FnP for the butchers nails. Thats what I'm talking about.

If you could do something that specific for each actual legion, we'd have so much variety in the forces people bring to the table.

We'd not see the internet listings of 4 heldrakes and cultists from anyone but the hard core competetives.

Yeah it's very likely thats fake, considering supplements, their treatment of chaos, and thus so far.

I am afraid it is wishlisting.

1) It will be too good.
2) It will be a massive success
3) It will involve work.

Not gonna happen.

The Chaos supplements will be bland, I prefer using Forgeworld Chaos rules and home-brew rules.

I for one wish my Dragon Warriors got some sort of perk other then just looking cool

I had a look at chaos 3.5 last night - at the night lords rules.

May only take the mark of chaos undivided.
May only use furies (no other deamons)
May use dp's and possessed as these are Night Lords with extra abilities
Night Vision
Can buy Stealth
Can swap 2 HS slots for 1 FA slot
Can have more than 1 raptor squad
I think thats about it - I'd take Night Vision and Stealth and be happy from that list...(the FA for 2 HS would be a bit much now - with BL allies, that'd be 5 Heldrakes in some armies.)

But I've had a thought - how would everyone else do the WB, NL, AL and IW in the current dex?

I think Night Lords work well with slaanesh (I5 = Scream, FNP icon bearer as apothecaries)
IW work very well with the MoN (to represent bionics)

What about the AL and the WB? how could we represent them?

 PredaKhaine wrote:
What about the AL and the WB? how could we represent them?

Using just the current Codex, WB should make extensive use of Possessed, Cultists and Dark Apostles, and take Chaos Daemons as allies.

AL, on the other hand... good ol' CSM, Terminators, Dreadnoughts, Tanks... No Marks, no Daemons, no Sorcerors.

 SarisKhan wrote:

 PredaKhaine wrote:
What about the AL and the WB? how could we represent them?

Using just the current Codex, WB should make extensive use of Possessed, Cultists and Dark Apostles, and take Chaos Daemons as allies.

AL, on the other hand... good ol' CSM, Terminators, Dreadnoughts, Tanks... No Marks, no Daemons, no Sorcerors.

So, no the chaos codex doesn't support those two legions then.
The Alpha's would get nothing of note and some self imposed nerfs and the word bearers need to ally in a separate codex and take other self imposed nerfs - Possessed/Dark Apostles I'm looking at you

IMO - those two legions need supplements next GW

I'm not playing any of those Legions, but I'd like to see them getting some love. I feel solidarity with my fellow Traitors, even those Khorne guys...