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Anyone notice the reversal of rules on barrages and minimum ranges? Now it appears that you have to fire directly when within minimum range with your barrage weapons, this is like a pendulum thing for GW, so maybe it will be back next edition? Its at least a logical and not crazy change to say the least! It appears that Bassies got a bit of a nerf but for me not a huge change since i always parked them behind the aegis anyways (i have terrible aim, so any reduction helps!)

I also can't find where if a barrage hits only a single level of a ruin. It appears it hits everything under the blast regardless of LOS.

Big time sniping ability.

This is also true for flamers. Couldnt find a rule that said it only hits one level

Voldrak wrote:
This is also true for flamers. Couldnt find a rule that said it only hits one level

Good.

Yea, I'd say firing a mortar vertically to hit a closing enemy is probably bad strategy.

Is barrage sniping still a thing?

 Dakkamite wrote:
Is barrage sniping still a thing?

Yes the blast is still treated as coming from the center of the circle.

Also the fact that templates and barrage can hit multiple floors wyverns are stupid good now. Ive play tested them in multiple games and a squad of 2 can stack many wounds on a squad. Now that they can hit dudes hiding and ignore their cover is insane!

Barrage doesn't cause pinning tests anymore, white we are on it

Templates still have an LOS restriction on them though, yeah?

Rugrud wrote:
Barrage doesn't cause pinning tests anymore, white we are on it

Ah bull this is going to require an email to GW, now mortars are even more worthless!

Barrage and sniper weapons both lost their pinning. Given that being pinned now denies Overwatch, I'm not surprised to see it more restricted.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
Barrage and sniper weapons both lost their pinning. Given that being pinned now denies Overwatch, I'm not surprised to see it more restricted.

Suddenly Tyranids are some of the happiest things in the game for pinning tests.

ooh So my idea of a pinning heavy tyranids list could be pretty useful. Does charging a pinned unit still remove penalties for charging through terrain.

It's a shame devourers don't cause pinning anymore.

Barrage and blast weapons got a huge buff, being able to affect units on multiple floors of ruins. Basilisks now work as they should, they can wreck units hiding in ruins. The Manticore's 24" minimum range is going to hurt, although it will also be able to wreck units in ruins.

 generalchaos34 wrote:
Anyone notice the reversal of rules on barrages and minimum ranges? Now it appears that you have to fire directly when within minimum range with your barrage weapons

Isnt this 6th edition as well?

Wow wyverns and thudd guns became even more murderlicious.

I wonder if thudd guns still pin because of their special take a pin test -1 rule.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Wow wyverns and thudd guns became even more murderlicious.

I wonder if thudd guns still pin because of their special take a pin test -1 rule.

I would say that they don't, as it doesn't actually say they causing pinning checks. However, it is likely to be cleaned up by a future IA1 faq. You could always do the pinning order, in which case you would get the -1.

 Trickstick wrote:
Barrage and blast weapons got a huge buff, being able to affect units on multiple floors of ruins. Basilisks now work as they should, they can wreck units hiding in ruins. The Manticore's 24" minimum range is going to hurt, although it will also be able to wreck units in ruins.

Dumb question that I think I know the answer to, but I want to be sure.
The Manticore 24" min/ not firing direct just means I'll never be able to - the bs3, correct?

If I'm shooting at a squad 20" away, that I can see, it's just the full scatter, right?

 alarmingrick wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
Barrage and blast weapons got a huge buff, being able to affect units on multiple floors of ruins. Basilisks now work as they should, they can wreck units hiding in ruins. The Manticore's 24" minimum range is going to hurt, although it will also be able to wreck units in ruins.

Dumb question that I think I know the answer to, but I want to be sure.
The Manticore 24" min/ not firing direct just means I'll never be able to - the bs3, correct?

If I'm shooting at a squad 20" away, that I can see, it's just the full scatter, right?

If you can see it you get your -3 to scatter, the rules just state that there is no option for indirect fire whilst inside the minimum range

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 alarmingrick wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
Barrage and blast weapons got a huge buff, being able to affect units on multiple floors of ruins. Basilisks now work as they should, they can wreck units hiding in ruins. The Manticore's 24" minimum range is going to hurt, although it will also be able to wreck units in ruins.

Dumb question that I think I know the answer to, but I want to be sure.
The Manticore 24" min/ not firing direct just means I'll never be able to - the bs3, correct?

If I'm shooting at a squad 20" away, that I can see, it's just the full scatter, right?

If you can see it you get your -3 to scatter, the rules just state that there is no option for indirect fire whilst inside the minimum range

I'm referring to the SER rules specifically though. "Can not fire directlty" just means it will never get the minus 3 to the scatter for the bs 3, correct?

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 alarmingrick wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
Barrage and blast weapons got a huge buff, being able to affect units on multiple floors of ruins. Basilisks now work as they should, they can wreck units hiding in ruins. The Manticore's 24" minimum range is going to hurt, although it will also be able to wreck units in ruins.

Dumb question that I think I know the answer to, but I want to be sure.
The Manticore 24" min/ not firing direct just means I'll never be able to - the bs3, correct?

If I'm shooting at a squad 20" away, that I can see, it's just the full scatter, right?

If you can see it you get your -3 to scatter, the rules just state that there is no option for indirect fire whilst inside the minimum range

The Manticore can't fire directly, so can't fire at targets within 24" and can never us its BS to reduce scatter.

Still going to play my Thudd gun as pinnig

 Trickstick wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 alarmingrick wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
Barrage and blast weapons got a huge buff, being able to affect units on multiple floors of ruins. Basilisks now work as they should, they can wreck units hiding in ruins. The Manticore's 24" minimum range is going to hurt, although it will also be able to wreck units in ruins.

Dumb question that I think I know the answer to, but I want to be sure.
The Manticore 24" min/ not firing direct just means I'll never be able to - the bs3, correct?

If I'm shooting at a squad 20" away, that I can see, it's just the full scatter, right?

If you can see it you get your -3 to scatter, the rules just state that there is no option for indirect fire whilst inside the minimum range

The Manticore can't fire directly, so can't fire at targets within 24" and can never us its BS to reduce scatter.

Supply a reference.

 Trickstick wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 alarmingrick wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
Barrage and blast weapons got a huge buff, being able to affect units on multiple floors of ruins. Basilisks now work as they should, they can wreck units hiding in ruins. The Manticore's 24" minimum range is going to hurt, although it will also be able to wreck units in ruins.

Dumb question that I think I know the answer to, but I want to be sure.
The Manticore 24" min/ not firing direct just means I'll never be able to - the bs3, correct?

If I'm shooting at a squad 20" away, that I can see, it's just the full scatter, right?

If you can see it you get your -3 to scatter, the rules just state that there is no option for indirect fire whilst inside the minimum range

The Manticore can't fire directly, so can't fire at targets within 24" and can never us its BS to reduce scatter.

As much as I love the Manticore, that may get mine shelved. I don't get a lot of the new nerfs/buffs, but this one really doesn't make sense.
Being able to fire within it's min just caused the Bassy to leapfrog it.

 Byte wrote:
Supply a reference.

AM codex, page 62, "Storm eagle rockets cannot fire directly".

Rule book, page 160, "When firing indirectly, the Ballistic Skill of the firer is not subtracted..."

Also, "Barrage weapons can fire indirectly. This means that they can fire at a target that they do not have line of sight to, as long as the target is beyond their minimum range (if applicable)."

 Trickstick wrote:

 Byte wrote:
Supply a reference.

AM codex, page 62, "Storm eagle rockets cannot fire directly".

Rule book, page 160, "When firing indirectly, the Ballistic Skill of the firer is not subtracted..."

Also, "Barrage weapons can fire indirectly. This means that they can fire at a target that they do not have line of sight to, as long as the target is beyond their minimum range (if applicable)."

Solid, thanks.

Did not see that coming, looks like the era of the manticore is over, not only can it not fire indirectly in 24 it cant pop tanks like it used to

 Jimsolo wrote:

Voldrak wrote:
This is also true for flamers. Couldnt find a rule that said it only hits one level

Good.

The flame template now has to touch the base of the firer, so it can't fire up levels at all.

For both blast and templates you one, need line of sight, but more importantly you have to be able to see the models under the template which is way trickier then it sounds.
if you target a model on the 3rd floor (you still target individual models) and hit and look under the template, it's unlikely that you see any of the models on the second floor or first floor (depending on construction of course). The wording is still look through the templates to see how is hit, if you can't see them they aren't hit.

Also blasts don't scatter vertically, meaning when you target the lower floors you can never hit the models on the upper floors.

Kisada II wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:

Voldrak wrote:
This is also true for flamers. Couldnt find a rule that said it only hits one level

Good.

The flame template now has to touch the base of the firer, so it can't fire up levels at all.

For both blast and templates you one, need line of sight, but more importantly you have to be able to see the models under the template which is way trickier then it sounds.

Odd, so a guy from above will hit everyone below (they are under the template), but it doesn't work the other way. Guess fire rolls downhill, and heat no longer rises.
I'm not seeing the requirement to see the models under the template/blast. The only restriction I see is when you empty the wound pool you can only apply the wounds to models in line of sight.

What page is the must see rule?