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7th edition beeing out for a while and the new codex too, how does the guard kill tanks due to 7th and new codex changes ?

Are there more options out now, or not ?

Vendettas beeing 170 points each ( ouch ) and armored sentinels beeing cheaper ( LC one for just 50 points ) and the new Scions who can pack alot of deepstricking meltas, etc...

What do you guys think ?

as far as can openers, i run battle tanks or vanquishers..i've dabbled with the tempust melta deep strike, but they are fragile,expensive and unreliable unless you somehow get an augar array up there for a melta strike. Sentinels are not a bad option but it really depends what sort of armor your facing off against...in a pinch even plasma toting grunts can work

Pask is fairly reliable. Otherwise, most everything in the army is good at stripping hull points - Chimeras (Multilasers threaten up to AV12), Russes, Vets, Autocannons, etc.

Infantry Squads with Lascannons, with either the Ignore Cover or the Tank Hunter order.

Knight commander Pask in a Leman Russ Exterminator packing an extra lascannon and a pair of multi meltas has been my go to. Freaking nuts how many HPs you put out, and for his buddy I just take an ordnance Russ and issue the split fire order all day.

 General Orange wrote:
7th edition beeing out for a while and the new codex too, how does the guard kill tanks due to 7th and new codex changes ?

Are there more options out now, or not ?

Vendettas beeing 170 points each ( ouch ) and armored sentinels beeing cheaper ( LC one for just 50 points ) and the new Scions who can pack alot of deepstricking meltas, etc...

What do you guys think ?

In my Guard army i use two blobs and I pretty much shove them down the enemy throat using Straken. My Psykers and Coteaz add to the units power as do their orders. The 9 Lascannons do the early heavy lifting while the rest of the unit surges. It's kinda awesome.

Demolition vets are quite the vehicle killers as well. They kill just about everything well. Surprisingly versatile but expensive unit. still, you could do far worse.

 Jancoran wrote:

 General Orange wrote:
7th edition beeing out for a while and the new codex too, how does the guard kill tanks due to 7th and new codex changes ?

Are there more options out now, or not ?

Vendettas beeing 170 points each ( ouch ) and armored sentinels beeing cheaper ( LC one for just 50 points ) and the new Scions who can pack alot of deepstricking meltas, etc...

What do you guys think ?

In my Guard army i use two blobs and I pretty much shove them down the enemy throat using Straken. My Psykers and Coteaz add to the units power as do their orders. The 9 Lascannons do the early heavy lifting while the rest of the unit surges. It's kinda awesome.

Demolition vets are quite the vehicle killers as well. They kill just about everything well. Surprisingly versatile but expensive unit. still, you could do far worse.

Demolition vets? Thought only Special Weapons teams could take Demolition Charges?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
Knight commander Pask in a Leman Russ Exterminator packing an extra lascannon and a pair of multi meltas has been my go to. Freaking nuts how many HPs you put out, and for his buddy I just take an ordnance Russ and issue the split fire order all day.

Pak in an Exterminator over Pask in a Punisher? I think Pask in a Punisher with Prescience is more versatile and just as good at anti-armor.

If you like watching First Blood Be your Warlord, I suppose Pasks potential can overcome that occasional reality.

I lose Pask. I do. I love you can protect him in a unit of those bad boys. But I honestly would suggest that you keep pask and his buddies firing from a far downtown as you can and repeatedly. short range weapons are the soup du jour I know for him but it seems like he\s get a lot more mileage and be a lot oless liability if you put anti-tank duties elsewhere. Its not that hes bad. Its that he has to get so derned close if he does that.

Obviously, it puts you at a huge risk (even a likelihood) of giving up Warlord, but Pask in a Punisher does too much damage not to take, in my eyes. 24" is short, it's true, but he'll kill a unit per turn usually, and if no good targets present themselves, then he's probably doing a pretty good job of establishing board control, so it's not a total wash.

I don't take him as my Warlord... I add an AM detachment to my GK army and my Librarian buffs for Prescience.

Pask punisher is very popular these days. It is also absolutely brutal against most things you shoot at. This has shown up a lot in very competitive lists. Very good unit.

Vanquishers are cheap enough now that even at BS3 they are decent. They are also very tough and if you can get a reroll to hit on them they become very effective anti tank.

Blobb squads with lascannons and the right order (either tank hunters or ignore cover) is super effective. It becomes drastically more so if you get to reroll misses. This also works with autocannons pretty well but they loose some flexibility. This option is extremely flexible and very tough to shift off of objectives.

Manticore is a great option to strip HP with glances as you will almost always get 1-2 HP off of the target. Again great because it is flexible. Barrage and ordnance definitely helps.

If you use forgeworld:
Rapier laser destroyer is a fantastic anti tank artillery unit. It comes with ordnance so you can either guarantee a pen using tank hunters or you can put ignore cover on it using orders and pen most lighter armour easily. If you put Yarrick or an inquisitor in the unit it becomes extremely nasty against any vehicle. Comes with TL default too and finally the unit is T7 due to artillery.

Heavy artillery carriages are another fantastic anti tank unit. The medusa option will demolish most vehicles in the game (even more so with the breacher shells). It has 36" range (or 48" if breacher shells) so if you deploy mid board the range is not a problem. If you don't want to sink the points necessary in bubble wrap units and anti melee deploying mid board entails then you should think about earthshakers. The humble earthshaker gives up the option to 1 shot a vehicle for some very reliable HP stripping with barrage to get side armour and ordnance to ensure a armour pen roll. The best part of both of these is that they are T7 due to artillery, have a lot of wounds, and due to large blast are good against ground vehicles and infantry.

Thunderer siege tanks. They are cheap demolisher tanks but hull mounted. This makes their price makes them disposable like the demolisher should be. Not bad but not the best. Still a nice option in the right list.

Vulture gunship is great against anything with an AV10 facing. With vector dancer and 20 BS5 Str 5 shots it can chew through most vehicles and flyers. The best part is it is flexible and works just as well vs infantry.

Some of the less optimal options;
Vendetta, if you get it just for anti tank you will be very disappointed. The current price is just too high unless you take advantage of every aspect of it (anti air and transport both).

If you take a vendetta then taking a second command squad with either 4 meltaguns or plasmaguns is brutal anti tank. Being able to drop in behind a tank and hit it with 4 ignore cover meltaguns or 8 tank hunters Str7 shots is not something to ignore. Preferably you have something else to put the second order on, like a squad of scions.

Sentinels are actually pretty decent right now. The competition in the slot is much more fair and they are reasonable damage and durability for their price. Lascannons and autocannons are good.

Devil dogs are effective but more expensive than they really should be.

Vets are extremely effective with 3 meltaguns and their upgrades can actually make them reasonably durable. However getting them where you want them can be a challenge. You will need to design the list around them if you want it to work as valks, chimera, or taurox are not inherently great unless you spam them to ensure some get through.

Scions with meltaguns are pretty decent as they have their own built in DS delivery. However a regular DS will almost always fall out of reach and they are a bit overpriced due to the AP3 lasguns.

Allies should also not be ignored. Namely Imperial Knights are both good anti tank and give the much needed forward scoring which AM struggles with.

 Jancoran wrote:

My Psykers and Coteaz add to the units power as do their orders. The 9 Lascannons do the early heavy lifting while the rest of the unit surges. It's kinda awesome.

What's the point in Coteaz? Also, how are you putting the 9 Lascannons into the two blobs? Or does it mean 5 squad blobs?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tSygna wrote:

Demolition vets? Thought only Special Weapons teams could take Demolition Charges?

Demolition doctrine, you get melta bombs for everybody and a demolition charge.

Zsolt wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

My Psykers and Coteaz add to the units power as do their orders. The 9 Lascannons do the early heavy lifting while the rest of the unit surges. It's kinda awesome.

What's the point in Coteaz? Also, how are you putting the 9 Lascannons into the two blobs? Or does it mean 5 squad blobs?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tSygna wrote:

Demolition vets? Thought only Special Weapons teams could take Demolition Charges?

Demolition doctrine, you get melta bombs for everybody and a demolition charge.

Coteaz is a fourth Psyker you can take and he's well armed for the points. Lets you re-roll for seize init and init is important to blob guard. Plus his Eagle is a pretty good weapon most of the time.

He also makes the unit hard to break obviously.

tSygna wrote:

Demolition vets? Thought only Special Weapons teams could take Demolition Charges?

Demolition doctrine, you get melta bombs for everybody and a demolition charge.

If the meta includes forge world rapiers are borderline broken OP in 7e

tSygna wrote:

tSygna wrote:

Demolition vets? Thought only Special Weapons teams could take Demolition Charges?

Demolition doctrine, you get melta bombs for everybody and a demolition charge.

Is a squad of 10x Veterans upgraded with Demolition doctrine (so a 90 point total investment in the squad including itself) going to do some damage if I load them into a Stormraven and drop them next to an enemy tank? Will the 90 points take out a 150 point tank reliably and then some in this fashion? I guess I'm trying to determine how effective such a unit would be in an anti-armor or MC role. If effective, I would substitute my 5x Terminators loaded into one of my Stormravens for this 10x Veterans demolition squad, and Deep Strike my Terminators instead... this would then allow me to get some actual value out of the Veteran squad rather than just hiding them in the rear holed up in a building basically as nothing more than a 60 point tax I'm required to take in order to unlock Pask's HQ Leman Russ squadron, and Wyvern Heavy Support from an AM detachment. I'm looking for a way to make the Veterans actually do something useful without sinking a ton of points into them, since I have plenty of better options to spend excessive amounts of points on like Nemesis Dreadknights and Stormravens and Mastery Level 3 Librarians etc.

What do you think?

LR will always need some bubble wrap to keep enemy CC units and possibily melta out of range. 10 Vets are a bit few for that, but at least can hold off the first charge.

tSygna wrote:


LR will always need some bubble wrap to keep enemy CC units and possibily melta out of range. 10 Vets are a bit few for that, but at least can hold off the first charge.

How exactly does bubble wrap work... only vs melee right? They want to charge the tanks but can't because there are other units in between so they have to charge the Veterans instead? And this doesn't help versus ranged though right... ranged will be able to choose to fire over the Veteran squads heads directly at the LR correct?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Demolition doctrine, you get melta bombs for everybody and a demolition charge.

LR will always need some bubble wrap to keep enemy CC units and possibily melta out of range. 10 Vets are a bit few for that, but at least can hold off the first charge.

Absolutely disagree. Vanquishers suck. They absolutely, positively suck now.

It's easy as pie to penetrate an enemy vehicle *if* you hit, sure, but then what? You need a 6 to blow it up.

That's a lot worse than 6th edition where you could blow it up on a 5+.

And I'm not paying 145 points for a tank - with Lascannon - that can cause less than 1HP of damage on average per turn. And this is supposed to be the target where this tank is good at. Against infantry it is the worst of all Leman Russes.

I'd rather rely on a Paskisher to punch through several HPs or on my Vendetta that strips off more HPs on average, but ALSO against Flyers for 30 points more than putting so many points in a 1 shot tank that can't even 1 shot a tank properly.

and what about our basilisks ? Aren't they good at tank busting with their ap 3 strenght 9 blast ? And what about our heavy weapons squads, they can pack a good punch can't they ?

 General Orange wrote:
and what about our basilisks ? Aren't they good at tank busting with their ap 3 strenght 9 blast ? And what about our heavy weapons squads, they can pack a good punch can't they ?

i do enjoy my basalisk, but i find its more useful shooting at the units that are hard packed together and hidden then at a lone piece of armor. Its best shock and awe value is nailing heavy infantry units(space marines ETC). I have gambled with the vet demo teams, its a one trick pony..if you fail to bust a tank then be prepared to lose an expensive unit. really if you want to go just balls out run a demo+las+multi melta sponsons...thats rolling hell on earth but its quite expensive

Vanquisher tank commander is decent. But honestly I prefer lascannon armored sentinels. Take 3 armored sentinels for 25 points less than a vanquisher tank commander with lascannon.

Other than sentinels, I don't use lascannons much, occasionally in a chimera mounted CCS. I prefer autocannons on anything else that's BS3, they're cheaper, and with tank hunter they can still do some serious damage against anything that isn't AV14. If heavy armor is the problem, there's no messing around, melta guns and melta bombs. The demo doctrine is a bit pricey for me, and you're carrying around a demo charge that isn't going to do much to vehicles. I prefer carapace melta-vets. All my platoon sargents have melta bombs, as do my officers.

A less reliable, but more fun plan, is to give your psykers telekinesis and cross your fingers for objuration mechanicum, it's so freaking good. Instant haywire hit + all weapons are 'gets hot'. Suddenly that land raider crusader isn't all that tough.

Another interesting anti-tank option I found in the new AM codex is the Taurox Prime - you can only get one if you buy it as dedicated transport for MT squads (or MT command squads), but the idea of a fast vehicle (i.e. move 12" and fire BOTH main guns compared to a regular vehicle only being able to move 6" and fire ONE gun) is very appealing to me. Unlike the Vendetta, you do not need to wait for turn 2 and THEN also a successful reserve roll for it to arrive, so in the crucial, initial stages of the game you have much more reliable anti tank stuff present with the Taurox Prime. AV11 may not be much, but if you hide it behind 4+ cover, suddenly the cards are in your favor. Also, 3HPs are solid for a light-to-medium tank destroyer

2 S8 krak shot missile launcher and 2 S7 twin-link shots, all of them firing at BS4 (rare, for Imperial Guard!) in a fast vehicle make for some serious flexibility in an otherwise static IG army. Great for knocking down hull points!!


Best way to use it is start it behind ADL on turn 1, load up a Veteran squad armed with carapace armor and 3 plasma guns. Then turn 2 you move past the ADL - you re-roll failed terrain check - and move toward enemy tanks, firing those Plasma Guns along the way

Use your speed to end movement partially hidden behind cover, or use it to get a clear shot toward tanks. The two extra S7 shots from the plasma guns are gravy.

But this glass-box doesn't seem to be that good after all when you think of high chance of beeing glanced to death, with front av 11 and av 10 side armor, very fast.

 Sir Arun wrote:



Another interesting anti-tank option I found in the new AM codex is the Taurox Prime - you can only get one if you buy it as dedicated transport for MT squads (or MT command squads), but the idea of a fast vehicle (i.e. move 12" and fire BOTH main guns compared to a regular vehicle only being able to move 6" and fire ONE gun) is very appealing to me. Unlike the Vendetta, you do not need to wait for turn 2 and THEN also a successful reserve roll for it to arrive, so in the crucial, initial stages of the game you have much more reliable anti tank stuff present with the Taurox Prime. AV11 may not be much, but if you hide it behind 4+ cover, suddenly the cards are in your favor. Also, 3HPs are solid for a light-to-medium tank destroyer

And it's 200 points for that combo. I'd rather spend 180 on 3 sentinels with lascannons and HK missiles.

 General Orange wrote:
But this glass-box doesn't seem to be that good after all when you think of high chance of beeing glanced to death, with front av 11 and av 10 side armor, very fast.

Two vanilla Tauroxes will get you four TL autocannon shots for the same points cost on twice as many hull points.

100 points is too much for one AV 11 vehicle.

Also, armored sentinels with autocannons? They may not be twin linked but they are more beefy and can fight back in CC.

 TheSilo wrote:

 General Orange wrote:
But this glass-box doesn't seem to be that good after all when you think of high chance of beeing glanced to death, with front av 11 and av 10 side armor, very fast.

Two vanilla Tauroxes will get you four TL autocannon shots for the same points cost on twice as many hull points.

100 points is too much for one AV 11 vehicle.

1) Twice the £ for GW
2) Twice the amount of Prime upgrade bits going to waste
3) You still lose the BS4
4) You lose the Fast vehicle type

The latter is arguably the biggest factor here because Fast doesnt just mean being able to shoot at normal BS after moving an extra 6". I means being able to do so with TWO weapons. And on top of that you get more tactical flexibility from the extra flat out movement range.

Sometimes getting your firepower to the right spot on the battlefield is more effective than presenting quantity and resilience to the enemy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ultimentra wrote:
Also, armored sentinels with autocannons? They may not be twin linked but they are more beefy and can fight back in CC.

I think if you're gonna use Sentinels as tank hunters, you should outflank them for best effect. Thus armored sentinels are out of the question.

Light transports: Exterminator w/ las cannon and heavy bolters
Heavy Armor vehicles: Deep striking storm troopers (melta), Vendettas, and my favorite for all over good role, the Manticore.

I can't count how many times my opponent will leave the manticore alone due to it being AP4. I have taken out more than enough Landraiders, vindicators in a single turn with both Manticores that I run. I also run a Knight, the big melta gun one from time to time, usually with in conjuction with the two manticore.

 martin74 wrote:
Light transports: Exterminator w/ las cannon and heavy bolters
Heavy Armor vehicles: Deep striking storm troopers (melta), Vendettas, and my favorite for all over good role, the Manticore.

I can't count how many times my opponent will leave the manticore alone due to it being AP4. I have taken out more than enough Landraiders, vindicators in a single turn with both Manticores that I run. I also run a Knight, the big melta gun one from time to time, usually with in conjuction with the two manticore.

How are you blowing up a Land raider with two manticores in a turn?

My problem with DSing TS that they can take only 2 melta guns, and they scatter up to 12" which is just the range of the melta gun. And they need to be in 6" to be really effective.

If you pack your melta vets in a chimera, and charge forward enemy armor, they will just blow it up. AV12 isn't much when facing enemy armor and heavy support.