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Other thread fell off the front page.

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/star-wars-episode-viis-father-sized-spoiler-revealed.html



Do you think this is real or no? If it is real, what do you think of it? I like it. It's daring and

I HOPE this is just Abrams playing the disinformation game again...

I'll believe it when I see it. So much of the magic and moral of Star Wars is the clear lines between good and evil, and the ultimate triumph of the former over the latter. This, if true, would undermine the whole original series and kill everything that is Star Wars.

This already happened in the eu. I have faith in disney(just say the series premier of rebels) that the movie will be good.

I'm not into the Star Wars franchise enough to say this definitively but I do believe that this was the storyline of the first canonical set of comics, way back when I was a teenager. I didn't read them so I'm not positive but a friend did and mentioned offhand the (major plot twist in the OP).

Luke went to the dark side in EU, but he was not cyborg-wraith abomination as the link speculates. I think he wore dark cloak (dark jedi - sith).

Doesn't he do that a bunch in the EU?

 curran12 wrote:
Doesn't he do that a bunch in the EU?

In the EU Luke Skywalker fights Luke Skywalker and some lady kills Luke Skywalker and after that she marries Luke Skywalker.

True Story.

 d-usa wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Doesn't he do that a bunch in the EU?

In the EU Luke Skywalker fights Luke Skywalker and some lady kills Luke Skywalker and after that she marries Luke Skywalker.

True Story.

And then Han Solo had a fist fight with a sentient 8ft space otter!

I think it is worth noting that Luke wore black an awful lot in Return of the Jedi, which I think hinted at his internal struggle over the Dark Side.

But I'll believe when I see it.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
I think it is worth noting that Luke wore black an awful lot in Return of the Jedi, which I think hinted at his internal struggle over the Dark Side.

But I'll believe when I see it.

To be fair, he came fairly close to turning to the Dark Side with the killing of his father, so it's likely he's been holding that in.

inb4 Luke becomes evil just to be redeemed again.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
I HOPE this is just Abrams playing the disinformation game again...

Great, so Luke isn't Gary Mitchell, either?

What if he isnt evil, just the antagonist?

Shoot... in the EU, wasn't he evil for a time? Like during Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy?

He once pretended to fall to the Dark Side and was the resurrected Palpatine Clone's apprentice.

Much in the EU was pretty stupid.

For those unfamiliar with the lingo, what exactly is the EU?

Expanded Universe. So the novels, comics, games, etc. that deal with stuff that didn't occur in the films.

Aaahhh...

Thank you.

Needs more lens flare, but broad strokes, you get what's happening.

Patton Oswalt's Star Wars filibuster is pretty epic, and totaly unscripted. They asked him to speak for 5 minutes, and away he went.

I'd actually be surprised and disappointed if the characters didn't change from our expectations of them. They'd have kept the EU if they wanted to be faithful to the source material. All the props I've seen, including Mark Hammill's epic BEARD, seem to capture the spirit and humor of the originals.

Or should I say- The Force is strong in this one.

Somehow I doubt this is accurate. What we know id that JJA has been developing a movie that keeps to the spirit of the originals, making Luke evil would break with that. Mind you, he might well be a psychocyborg, but evil? doubtful. Also, keep in mind she might be thinking shell meet luke, and instead meets someone else, much like how Han and co thought they were meeting Lando on cloud city only to end up having dinner with one darth vader.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
which I think hinted at his internal struggle over the Dark Side

There's definitely something to that (like Luke's mechanical hand), although I think it has more to do with Luke dealing with being Vader's son and symbolically what this ultimately means for Vader.

One of the first things we see Luke do in RotJ is use Force Choke. Now we didn't know it was Force Choke(TM) back then or that it was a Dark Side Power(C)(R) but the only other person we had seen do it was D to the V. When Obi-Wan wanted to slip by some guards, he befuddled their minds. (Don't tell me Gamorrean bouncers are more canny than Storm Troopers.) Luke then proceeds, although not in so many words, to tell Jabba it's either release the crew or get murdered. Heavy stuff man. But it is important that Luke does not actually tell Jabba "I will fething murder you" and that we don't see the Gamorreans die. That would be full Vader. And like Yoda said (i'm paraphrasing), never go full Vader.

Luke is at a pivotal point throughout RotJ: what is his destiny? This is all a matter of the past, or rather the truth about the past and whether or not Luke can deal with it. The T Word is a big deal in RotJ. When Yoda confirms Vader is Luke's dad and says it's unfortunate, Luke immediately objects: "Unfortunate that I know the truth?" Soon after, Obi-Wan lectures Luke that truth is a matter of perspective and Luke is not impressed. Both Yoda and Ben are trying to get Luke to kill his dad here by the way. And they're downplaying truth a lot, which doesn't make them seem very trustworthy. By contrast, Vader continues his straight forward attitude from ESB. Luke calls Vader father after turning himself in on Endor and Vader cautiously concludes "so you have accepted the truth." Luke pointedly retorts, "'I've accepted the truth that you were once Anakin Skywalker, my father."

You can almost hear Force Ghost Ben in the background: "Buuuurn." Which would be really insensitive thing for him to say to Vader but I digress.

In this scene, we have the main protagonist and antagonist conversing as father and son. Luke's black clothing not only links him to Vader in this scene but calls to mind the vision from ESB, where it's Luke's face inside of Vader's mask. Interestingly, the dialog does not at all suggest that Luke is in danger of being pulled into the oblivion of the Dark Side but that Vader could be pulled free from it. In other words, the vision from ESB did not warn that Luke would become like Vader, as Yoda and Obi-Wan fear, but rather that Vader was once like Luke -- that there is still a human person in there, despite what Ben and everyone else thinks, that Vader is "twisted and evil, more machine than man now."

"Feelings" is also an important concept in ESB and RotJ. Palpatine advises Vader to "search" his feelings to know the truth about his son and Vader in turn advises Luke to the same to know the truth about his father. Feelings and truth are deeply connected in Star Wars. This is another sign that Yoda and Obi-Wan are acting shady. Yoda goes on and on about Luke controlling his emotions (including letting his friends die) and Ben flat-out tells him to bury them. Luke tells Vader to search his feelings but Vader plays it off and, as a result, Luke concludes, "Then my father is truly dead." Vader later tells Luke his feelings have betrayed both himself and Leia, which really is the absolute worst thing -- emotionally speaking -- Vader does in all three films and what finally pushes Luke over the edge.

That's when we come back to the mechanical hand visual metaphor and Luke realizes, as a matter of pure faith, that his love for his father is more powerful than the Dark Side. And as Vader ultimately tells Luke, "You were right, you were right about me." In that moment, we again have the image of two men in black except now both are unmasked. The dying man is old and scarred but a human, capable of regret and love. He dies with tears in his eyes. Visually, we understand that the redeemed father will live on in the redeeming son.

All of this, I hope, will also stand in as an argument why Luke turning out to be evil would be ludicrously bad. Search your feels, bro. You know it to be true.

 Manchu wrote:
Luke then proceeds, although not in so many words, to tell Jabba it's either release the crew or get murdered. Heavy stuff man. But it is important that Luke does not actually tell Jabba "I will fething murder you" and that we don't see the Gamorreans die. That would be full Vader. And like Yoda said (i'm paraphrasing), never go full Vader.

Luke does tell Jabba directly that he will kill him though. On the skiff plank, right before the Weequay pushes him off, Luke says, "Jabba! This is your last chance. Free us, or die."

"Evil Luke" has already been done in the novels.

 Hordini wrote:
Luke does tell Jabba directly that he will kill him though. On the skiff plank, right before the Weequay pushes him off, Luke says, "Jabba! This is your last chance. Free us, or die."

Does that seem like something Darth Vader would say? How would Vader have handled strolling up into Jabba's palace?

 Manchu wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
Luke does tell Jabba directly that he will kill him though. On the skiff plank, right before the Weequay pushes him off, Luke says, "Jabba! This is your last chance. Free us, or die."

Does that seem like something Darth Vader would say? How would Vader have handled strolling up into Jabba's palace?

He probably would have rolled deep with Stormtroopers and said something like, "Commander, tear this place apart until you've found Han. And bring me Jabba and his crew. I want them alive!" Then he would have proceeded to torture them for any further information he was after.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Breotan wrote:
"Evil Luke" has already been done in the novels.

That doesn't mean they can't do it in the new movie.

 Hordini wrote:
He probably would have rolled deep with Stormtroopers and said something like, "Commander, tear this place apart until you've found Han. And bring me Jabba and his crew. I want them alive!" Then he would have proceeded to torture them for any further information he was after.

Exactly -- or at least if he was in a good mood.

However, if we're talking about comparing Luke to Vader, perhaps we should also consider a comparison of Luke and Anakin. I could see Anakin approaching the situation similar to how Luke did in RotJ.

Well that gets back to my point about Luke's vision on Dagobah.

 Manchu wrote:
Well that gets back to my point about Luke's vision on Dagobah.

I agree with your interpretation, but I think one could also interpret it to imply, not that Luke would become like Vader, but that Luke could become like Vader. That is, that there is a real danger of that happening.