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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 03:45:42
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Crazed Cultist of Khorne
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Hi. it feels like 2 years has past by since my last post of anything of particular. The reason of why I am posting this Topic today is that I had fought an opponent who was playing Nids. and my opponent and I agreed for an 1850 point battle and not an unfair unbound list against a competitive list.
In my opponents list, he had 5 Flying Hive Tyrants with Master Lvl 2(pysker), a broodmother, 2 carnifexes, a Zoneathrope and 2 nid models that give any nid model within 6 inches of another nid model a +2 cover save. The list was official illegal to play and I didn't agree to it. It was officially bs because I only agreed for only 1850 points. Nothing else. HE HAD NO TROOPS! I was playing Chaos Space Marines when this happened also. This was a Campaign battle also for the Shield of Baal planet called Vrax or something.
My list was a testing competitive actual 1850 list. No unbounding at all. This is my list:
Be'Lakor, terminater Sorcerer(Master lvl 3 with murder sword) No mark, a squad of thousand sons in a rhino with a havoc launcher(10 man squad), a 10 man CSM squad with 1 flamer and missile launcher, mark of slaanesh and icon of excess all with close combat weapons in a rhino with a havoc Launcher and the champion had a power sword. a Helbrute with thunder hammer and twin-linked heavy bolter, 2 Heldrakes and a 3 man squad of Bikers with mark of Nurgle and icon of vengeance, and 2 flamers and a Defiler.
Overall the battle was highly illegal due to the fact that I never agreed to the unbound list he fielded against me. And that I was learning how to use a Heldrake and a Helbrute because I am still learning other chaos models to play.
How can you kill an unbound and illegalize nid list like this that is always going to feth you in the ass and laugh at you unfairly. I want a Chaos Space Marine list that can go up against it and an Astra Militarium list also. Because I am officially unhappy with the unfair lost I was given today.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/09 03:46:35
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
FOR THE EMPEROR
For there is light, There is darkness.
For there is good, There is evil
For there is life, There is death
For there is peace, There is Chaos.
Never Give Up, Never Surrender
Heaven and Hell are at War & my soul is the battle ground.
Thus if im good, I cant be evil. But if im evil, Thus must kill for Blood. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 03:53:44
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
San Diego, CA
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Welcome to 7th bro, unbound is legal per the warhammer 40k rulebook. If you do not want to play against an unbound list, make it known before you sit down. And you said you want to play competitively? Well pentatyrants are common in the tournament scene.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/09 03:54:51
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 03:59:14
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I'm sure he could use the same argument with you using Be'Lakor for example.
He could run that list as 2 Leviathian detchaments by only adding 6 muscolids (90 points) assuming you mean a Tervigon as a brood mother.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/09 03:59:40
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 03:59:35
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Powerful Ushbati
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A lot of tournaments dont allow unbound but... the list your talking about is almost capable in a combined arms detachment with formations/alliances added in. Tyranids currently have access to the cheapest troop tax in the game.
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TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
TK- 2014 to Date: http://www.torrentoffire.com/rankings |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 04:11:25
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Tunneling Trygon
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Did you play the game? Then you agreed to his Unbound list. I don't actually see the point of complaining about that particular thing when you still got your models out and rolled dice. No one had a gun to your head. No one forced you to play the game in a way you didn't like. Unbound is legal and a thing now and it is up to you as a player to reject games like that.
Now, if he was cheating, that is a different story. At which point, again, you should have packed it in and moved on with your day. Venomthropes give Shrouded to Tyranid models, not units but specific models, within 6 inches of the Venomthrope, not of a bug by a bug by a Venomthrope. A... Broodmother? Tervigon I'm guessing. That can be a Troop choice but we've already determined the list was Unbound so that doesn't matter.
Five Flyrants are very strong. It is a model that can handle everything on the table reliably and five of them, legal even in Battleforged lists just to warn you, is an amazing offensive force. You need a) Skyfire or b) so many shots that SOME of them are Double 6s and you can ground it and Assault it, trapping it on the ground in a tarpit. Cultists actually work well with that but it takes two units of Cultists to make that happen. One with Autoguns and one to charge because Rapid Fire.
Other than that, modify your list to be more Competitive. No, I don't go to any competitive circuits because that's not how I enjoy the game, but even I know your list isn't competitive in the slightest. Defiler (can't target Flyers with Blasts), too few Bikes (can't target Flyers with Templates anyway), no Plague Marines, no Noise Marines (Ignores Cover Sonic Blasters so who cares about Shrouded with these), Thousand Sons a Terminator Sorcerer with no Terminators and a Terminator Sorcerer at all is still bad. What are you Invisible-ing or trying to do with your Psykers? I'm not seeing anything worth the Warp Charge points to buff here.
You would honestly do better with a full rewrite of your list. Only thing that should be kept are the Heldrakes but even they are poo against Nids. Flyrants are almost purpose built to shoot things in the butt and the Heldrake is only AV10 over it's vent. Not a chance in hell that it can take 11 shots (the average hits per Tyrant per turn) that only need 4s to strip it down. And if it does, well, there's plenty more.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 04:19:02
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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sniperray213 wrote:Overall the battle was highly illegal due to the fact that I never agreed to the unbound list he fielded against me.
You don't have to 'agree' to use Unbound, any more than you have to agree to use a Battleforged list. Either is a legitimate method of list building in the current edition.
If you don't want to play against an Unbound list, that's something that you have to specifically discuss with your opponent when you're setting up the game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 04:42:36
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch
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Your list was unbound as well, since you only have 1 troop unit. Besides, as soon as you rolled dice against it, you agreed to play it. Not only that, as others have said, his list is not terribly far off being legal at all and is to be expected in competative circles.
As a side note, the only thing in your list that is remotely competative is belakor and the pair of heldrakes, everything else besides the nurgle bikers are the least competative trash of the entire codex (which is itself highly uncompetative).
Head on over to the army lists section and post up your collection of models so you can get some help writing a competative list.
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Peregrine wrote:What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 06:15:06
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
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Indeed, unbound is legal. Just field whatever you like.
In our RTT's we don't allow unbound and also superheavies incl. iK's are ruled out.
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Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 09:58:01
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Battleship Captain
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sniperray213 wrote:Hi. it feels like 2 years has past by since my last post of anything of particular. The reason of why I am posting this Topic today is that I had fought an opponent who was playing Nids. and my opponent and I agreed for an 1850 point battle and not an unfair unbound list against a competitive list.
In my opponents list, he had 5 Flying Hive Tyrants with Master Lvl 2(pysker), a broodmother, 2 carnifexes, a Zoneathrope and 2 nid models that give any nid model within 6 inches of another nid model a +2 cover save. The list was official illegal to play and I didn't agree to it. It was officially bs because I only agreed for only 1850 points. Nothing else. HE HAD NO TROOPS! I was playing Chaos Space Marines when this happened also. This was a Campaign battle also for the Shield of Baal planet called Vrax or something.
My list was a testing competitive actual 1850 list. No unbounding at all. This is my list:
Be'Lakor, terminater Sorcerer(Master lvl 3 with murder sword) No mark, a squad of thousand sons in a rhino with a havoc launcher(10 man squad), a 10 man CSM squad with 1 flamer and missile launcher, mark of slaanesh and icon of excess all with close combat weapons in a rhino with a havoc Launcher and the champion had a power sword. a Helbrute with thunder hammer and twin-linked heavy bolter, 2 Heldrakes and a 3 man squad of Bikers with mark of Nurgle and icon of vengeance, and 2 flamers and a Defiler.
Overall the battle was highly illegal due to the fact that I never agreed to the unbound list he fielded against me. And that I was learning how to use a Heldrake and a Helbrute because I am still learning other chaos models to play.
How can you kill an unbound and illegalize nid list like this that is always going to feth you in the ass and laugh at you unfairly. I want a Chaos Space Marine list that can go up against it and an Astra Militarium list also. Because I am officially unhappy with the unfair lost I was given today.
Insaniak -The Chaos army may have been Battle-forged. If the Sorceror had the Mark of Tzeench then he'd have the Master of the Rubricae rule and the Thousand Sons would also be Troops.
The list, whilst harsh, is not illegal. It is unbound, and - give or take a couple of hundred points worth of models, could easily have been made battleforged with little change (certainly whilst still having the five tyrants in it, anyway). That's not the same thing; the rules allow for unbound armies. The things to bear in mind:
An unbound army gains no command benefits. That's the special rules associated with detachments.
Assuming you've used a Combined Arms Detachment (what in 6th edition was a 'generic force organisation') then you have two
~ Ideal Mission Commander - you get a reroll on your warlord trait
~ Objective Secured - your troops are 'uncontestable' on objectives
The trick is how to use this to win the game. Unbound armies spamming powerful units tend to be very good at killing things but tend to suck at actually taking objectives. This is bad in Altar of War missions and catastrophic in Maelstrom Of War missions (the ones with mid-game tactical objectives). To compound this, whilst a winged hive tyrant is swooping, whilst fast he can't claim objectives at all, even if he's the only one on it, much like a flyer.
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Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 10:45:21
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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That list is perfectly legal - as others have stated Unbound is a real thing in 7th.
From what you described your list as, Battlescribe says you brought a 1900 list. If that's true, then the only illegal list was yours.
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YMDC = nightmare |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 11:30:54
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Auspicious Skink Shaman
Louth, Ireland
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Jut remember to FORGE THE NARRATIVE!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 12:56:41
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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You are claiming to have been testing a 'competitive list', but really anyone can tell that your list isn't even close to competitive. A single land raider would prove difficult (if not impossible) for your list to deal with.
You have a grand total of 4 models that could harm it: Be'lakor (melee), Rocket launcher CSM (glance on 6's), defiler (battle cannon/ lascannon) and lastly the Helbrute (melee).
He could easily make it battleforged by replacing 1 carnifex with troops and quite frankly the result would have been the same because you are playing a subpar list.
You are slinging the words unfair and illegal around because you can't deal with the fact that you lost. I suggest you grow up and stop behaving like you're 5. You got beat by a list that's 100% fair and legal and if you want your opponent to bring something else in the future I suggest you make arrangements with your opponent instead of throwing a tantrum online.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/09 13:10:41
You don't have to be happy when you lose, just don't make winning the condition of your happiness. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 13:09:14
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
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He's playing a tournament list, you're playing CSM. Unbound doesn't really change the outcome.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 13:33:20
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Also, shrouded confers to the whole unit if one model in the unit has it. In order to take down the flyrants, hit them with the heldrake's vector strike after they get airborne. Add a land raider, the devourere are useless against them. Your army was also unbound, since you stated the sorcerer has no marks. If you want to make your list more competitive, swap the thousand suns for a squad of cultists and a unit of pink horrors, then proxy the defiler for the chaos daemon version (name escapes me) that would give you front armor 13, and another sky fire option. If you ran this list, I think you could have made a game of it.
As it stands, you were both unbound and you my have actually had more than the legal point total. If I were the guy who played against you and happened to find this thread, I'd be exceptionally angry. Not only that you may have cheated, but your crappy attitude about a perfectly legal list beating you. I hope the tips are helpful, and that you can enjoy your future games with more sportsmanship.
Edited for stupid autocorrect
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/09 13:34:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 18:42:40
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Crazed Cultist of Khorne
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SharkoutofWata wrote:Did you play the game? Then you agreed to his Unbound list. I don't actually see the point of complaining about that particular thing when you still got your models out and rolled dice. No one had a gun to your head. No one forced you to play the game in a way you didn't like. Unbound is legal and a thing now and it is up to you as a player to reject games like that.
Now, if he was cheating, that is a different story. At which point, again, you should have packed it in and moved on with your day. Venomthropes give Shrouded to Tyranid models, not units but specific models, within 6 inches of the Venomthrope, not of a bug by a bug by a Venomthrope. A... Broodmother? Tervigon I'm guessing. That can be a Troop choice but we've already determined the list was Unbound so that doesn't matter.
Five Flyrants are very strong. It is a model that can handle everything on the table reliably and five of them, legal even in Battleforged lists just to warn you, is an amazing offensive force. You need a) Skyfire or b) so many shots that SOME of them are Double 6s and you can ground it and Assault it, trapping it on the ground in a tarpit. Cultists actually work well with that but it takes two units of Cultists to make that happen. One with Autoguns and one to charge because Rapid Fire.
Other than that, modify your list to be more Competitive. No, I don't go to any competitive circuits because that's not how I enjoy the game, but even I know your list isn't competitive in the slightest. Defiler (can't target Flyers with Blasts), too few Bikes (can't target Flyers with Templates anyway), no Plague Marines, no Noise Marines (Ignores Cover Sonic Blasters so who cares about Shrouded with these), Thousand Sons a Terminator Sorcerer with no Terminators and a Terminator Sorcerer at all is still bad. What are you Invisible-ing or trying to do with your Psykers? I'm not seeing anything worth the Warp Charge points to buff here.
You would honestly do better with a full rewrite of your list. Only thing that should be kept are the Heldrakes but even they are poo against Nids. Flyrants are almost purpose built to shoot things in the butt and the Heldrake is only AV10 over it's vent. Not a chance in hell that it can take 11 shots (the average hits per Tyrant per turn) that only need 4s to strip it down. And if it does, well, there's plenty more.
I never officially agreed to the list. he had an actual 1850 list but he said tailoring like an ass and threw the unfair list at me. The Terminator Sorcerer was using Biomancy powers for buffs. and Be'lakor died without having a single power go off. Automatically Appended Next Post: Frozocrone wrote:That list is perfectly legal - as others have stated Unbound is a real thing in 7th.
From what you described your list as, Battlescribe says you brought a 1900 list. If that's true, then the only illegal list was yours.
my list wast illegal. I wrote the entire list without battlescribe. just pen and paper and the codex Automatically Appended Next Post: AnomanderRake wrote:He's playing a tournament list, you're playing CSM. Unbound doesn't really change the outcome.
my list was to go against his list that wasn't unbound. which makes it competitive. but no it was bs that he threw an ass move Automatically Appended Next Post: Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:Also, shrouded confers to the whole unit if one model in the unit has it. In order to take down the flyrants, hit them with the heldrake's vector strike after they get airborne. Add a land raider, the devourere are useless against them. Your army was also unbound, since you stated the sorcerer has no marks. If you want to make your list more competitive, swap the thousand suns for a squad of cultists and a unit of pink horrors, then proxy the defiler for the chaos daemon version (name escapes me) that would give you front armor 13, and another sky fire option. If you ran this list, I think you could have made a game of it.
As it stands, you were both unbound and you my have actually had more than the legal point total. If I were the guy who played against you and happened to find this thread, I'd be exceptionally angry. Not only that you may have cheated, but your crappy attitude about a perfectly legal list beating you. I hope the tips are helpful, and that you can enjoy your future games with more sportsmanship.
Edited for stupid autocorrect
My list was not unbound. The reason I couldn't take a Mark is that if it was given a mark, only 1 power will have to go to that official mark while the rest of the powers go to a different table. That is how Sorcerers work. I didn't cheat. I couldn't do nothing at all against an unfair 5 tyrants with only 1 Demon Prince and 2 flyers. If I was using Vendettas, that would have been different. But no I made a list with 2 models that I didn't know gak about yet and I wanted to learn how to use that kind of model. Automatically Appended Next Post: Drasius wrote:Your list was unbound as well, since you only have 1 troop unit. Besides, as soon as you rolled dice against it, you agreed to play it. Not only that, as others have said, his list is not terribly far off being legal at all and is to be expected in competative circles.
As a side note, the only thing in your list that is remotely competative is belakor and the pair of heldrakes, everything else besides the nurgle bikers are the least competative trash of the entire codex (which is itself highly uncompetative).
Head on over to the army lists section and post up your collection of models so you can get some help writing a competative list.
When I made the list, it was suppose to be competitive till he said gak stuff. which made it unfair to me. and I agreed to only an 1850 list and not a feth you in the ass list. The sorcerer was gonna have a mark of Tzeench but no. The guy had to be a total ass
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/03/09 18:50:29
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
FOR THE EMPEROR
For there is light, There is darkness.
For there is good, There is evil
For there is life, There is death
For there is peace, There is Chaos.
Never Give Up, Never Surrender
Heaven and Hell are at War & my soul is the battle ground.
Thus if im good, I cant be evil. But if im evil, Thus must kill for Blood. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 18:59:09
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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I played in a tournament that allowed unbound. I brought a dual combined arms to access the brass scorpion with my daemons. So a 160pt tax on it (also allowed LoW) anywho, the first place was unbound guard. lots of russ and flyers, second place was unbound knights with some anti air turret and a biker that gives a +4 invul bubble. I got third, and everyone else was playing within bound rules.
Unbound gets silly broken sometimes. I could have opted to play unbound, and would have had the spare points to give my scorpion grimoire, but opted for bound for 2 reasons.
1. Didn't want to be 100% that guy.
2. Wanted to score objectives (which never mattered, as no one was alive to contest)
Be'lakor is about as cheesy as they come though. That dude might as well be a Lord of War for how powerful he is.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/09 19:09:04
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 18:59:18
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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sniperray213 wrote: When I made the list, it was suppose to be competitive till he said gak stuff. which made it unfair to me. and I agreed to only an 1850 list and not a feth you in the ass list. Are you actually 21, Sniperaray213? I have a hard time believing this is a legitimate thread or that you are as old as you say you are. I'm thinking 11, but that would insult the 11 year olds that post here from time to time. People are explaining to you, very calmly I might add, that the other player did not bring an "illegal list." In this game, you can play unbound. You can also tailor your list, should you so desire, to defeat your opponent's normal list. You can also bring a "tournament competitive" list to a "friendly" game. Here is the problem. You and your opponent did not seem to come to an agreement on the type of game you want to play. In the future, you should agree before hand on the type of game to play. If the other person shows up with a list that does not meet the specified agreement, then don't play. It's that simple. In this case, you agreed to play the game, so stop griping. Next time, just say no. But do it politely.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/09 19:00:16
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 19:04:39
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Powerful Ushbati
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Well you need to be clear up front what type of game you are looking to play. You mentioned originally you were testing out what you deemed as a tournament build. Your opponent ran a list similar to a nid list you will see at events these days. If the game was not to your liking then that only improves the chances of a similar situation not happening again where you are expecting one type of game and getting another. As for repetitively insulting your opponent you can go ahead and stop. All it does is reflect poorly upon your character and/or ability to take a loss. I can already invision how fun this game was for either player. Nothing is worse then when a simple miss communication that can start with a trickle and end with a land slide.
As others have said there is an army list forum if you would like to work on your list building as your list could use a little work if it was designed to be competitive. Beyond that I am sorry you had a bad experience but it sounds like you gave your opponent and possibly other players at the store a similar bad experience.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/09 19:06:35
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
TK- 2014 to Date: http://www.torrentoffire.com/rankings |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 19:07:11
Subject: Re:How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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[DCM]
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To the OP - PLEASE find a different way to express yourself here - thanks!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 19:08:45
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It's a game with plastic army men.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 19:10:03
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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Ahem, that is an "Illegalize game with plastic army men".
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 19:21:56
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Sniperray213, your list, as presented is unbound. Without the mark of tzeench, you would have only had one troop choice. Therefore you did NOT meet the requirements of a combined arms detachment. My suggestion was not to build a specific counter to his, but to take a similar list(even proxying if you don't happen to have any pink horrors) so yu can have a better go of it in an actual tournament.
Secondly, don't bring models you are unaccustomed to to a tournament level competition. You cut you teeth in friendly games to learn their quirks, then add them to the heavy duty list when you have the bugs worked out. Not attacking you bud, trying to help. Like you asked us to in the title.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 21:00:11
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Guy with an unbound list throwing a hissy fit because the other guy brought an unbound army. What an amazing world we live in.
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You don't have to be happy when you lose, just don't make winning the condition of your happiness. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 21:44:52
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Tunneling Trygon
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You chose to throw dice. You set dice to table and put your models down instead of going home. You agreed to play that game so you agreed to his list. Doesn't matter what you THOUGHT he would bring, he didn't cover his models with a shroud until the final turn. You saw him setting up and still played the game.
If your list isn't unbound, seperate everything right here into HQ, Troops, Elites and so on. Just real quick. We'll happily tell you how to make it Battleforged if you don't believe us.
Don't use the term 'competitive'. It actually means something and if you think what you had is even remotely close to competitive, you're not experienced enough or ready to call ANYTHING competitive. Your list was garbage.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 21:54:15
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend
Maine
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You're tossing the word (or forms of the word) 'illegal' around a lot, when I'm not certain you have read the rule book. Unbound is 100% LEGAL. GW has given players the green light to bring any models they want to any game.
The only way his list would be 'illegal', were if you were at a tournament that disallowed Unbound armies. Since this game wasn't a tournament, then he is more than able to bring such a list. If you didn't want to face Unbound, it's your responsibility as a player to say so. People aren't mind readers.
I'm also not 100% certain your list was even legal either. Are you even able to bring Bel'akor with a Chaos army without taking the required troops tax? (I don't use allied detachments, so I'm not 100% certain how they roll. I thought you needed 1 HQ AND 2 Troops to bring allies).
Either way, you can't get mad at him. As others stated, YOU proceeded to play the game. You had every right and chance before setting up to decline the game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/10 01:25:52
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch
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sniperray213 wrote:I never officially agreed to the list. he had an actual 1850 list but he said tailoring like an ass and threw the unfair list at me. The Terminator Sorcerer was using Biomancy powers for buffs. and Be'lakor died without having a single power go off.
1st, you need to understand that as soon as you roll dice against someone on T1, you've agreed to their list, otherwise you wouldn't have played. If you see someone put stuff on the table you don't want to play, inform them of that (as politely as you can manage) and decline the game or come to an agreement on alternate lists.
Frozocrone wrote:From what you described your list as, Battlescribe says you brought a 1900 list. If that's true, then the only illegal list was yours.
sniperray213 wrote:my list wast illegal. I wrote the entire list without battlescribe. just pen and paper and the codex
It was not legal (over the agreed points limit) and unbound (only 1 troop). You might want to check your codex mate;
HQ
350 - Be'lakor
170 - Sorc, ML3, Terminator armour, Murder Sword
Elite
110 - Helbrute, Thunderhammer, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter
312 - 10x Thousand Sons, Rhino w/ Havok Launcher
Troops
270 - 10x CSM w/ CCW & BP, ML, Flamer, Mark of Slaneesh, Icon of Excess, Rhino w/ Havok Launcher, Power Sword
Fast Attack
123 - 3x Bikers of Nurgle, 2x Flamers, Icon of Vengence, Mark of Nurgle
170 - Heldrake
170 - Heldrake
Heavy Support
195 - Defiler
1870 total and only 1 troops choice (Thousand Sons are elites unless your primary detatchment includes a sorceror with mark of Tzeentch, which yours doesn't). if I had to guess, you forgot to give your CSM the Mark of Slaneesh, they can't take the Icon of Excess if they don't have it.
sniperray213 wrote:my list was to go against his list that wasn't unbound. which makes it competitive. but no it was bs that he threw an ass move
Obligatory Princess Bride quote. Competative means you have an answer for most lists or have skewed your list to the point where your opponents don't or can't have an answer for what you put on the table. 5 flyrants is an example of that, your army is not. If you meant casual or friendly, then your list barely qualifies there as belakor and a pair of drakes isn't exactly casual. What would you have said if you played foot marines with no skyfire and your 'drakes flew around killing his entire army and he had no way to stop it hmmm?
sniperray213 wrote:My list was not unbound. The reason I couldn't take a Mark is that if it was given a mark, only 1 power will have to go to that official mark while the rest of the powers go to a different table. That is how Sorcerers work. I didn't cheat. I couldn't do nothing at all against an unfair 5 tyrants with only 1 Demon Prince and 2 flyers. If I was using Vendettas, that would have been different. But no I made a list with 2 models that I didn't know gak about yet and I wanted to learn how to use that kind of model.
Yes, it was unbound, we have already established that. If you want to take a mark, yes, you have to roll at least once on that gods table (or twice for lvl 3's, but nobody ever does since the powers are all worse than the main rule book powers) and the remainder can go on Bio/Tele/Pyro/Sanctic/Maelific. That's the hidden price you pay for taking a mark on a sorceror. The rest of us shrug at our crappy codex and deal with it. You did cheat since you brought more than 1850 points to a 1850 game. It might not have been intentional, but you did have an unfair advantage by taking more points than you opponent. If there was nothing you could have done (there wasn't), decline the game as you won't be having fun. If you're looking to learn how to use a model, explain that to your opponent and come to an agreement.
sniperray213 wrote:When I made the list, it was suppose to be competitive till he said gak stuff. which made it unfair to me. and I agreed to only an 1850 list and not a feth you in the ass list. The sorcerer was gonna have a mark of Tzeench but no. The guy had to be a total ass
We've already touched on the "competative" bit, as well as the "unfair" bit. I'm still not sure why you didn't give your sorceror the mark of Tzeentch, though I'm not sure why you took him at all in the first place. He can't be attached to anyone without forcing your thousand sons out of their rhino and is easy first blood on his own. Defilers are bad, as battlecannons are poor and force the remaining weapons to snapfire if it fires and the front and side armour are low for a 200 point unit. Thousand Sons are terrible as they are incredibly expensive and cover is easy to get, negating their AP3 bolters and they die to small arms fire exactly the same as normal marines whicle costing almost twice as much. You've way overspent on your CSM, 10 guys, 2 plasma guns, a melta bomb on the sarge and a bare bones rhino. 210 points. Done. You spent 25 points on an icon for 3 guys who only cost 98 points, that's crazy. Helbrutes are terrible outside of their formations, and taking a TL heavy bolter instead of a melta gun is madness, let alone actually paying points to do so. Havok launchers have their place, but you have to know when, and your list certainly isn't one of them. Only having a single heavy support in an 1850 chaos list is crazy. Oblits are a great choice and would have given you at least some sort of makeshift AA along with a forgefiend (where his crappy BS doesn't matter since he's hitting on 6's anyway)
If I had to guess, I'd say you aimed your list at killing masses of infantry, expecting gaunts (and also able to kill guard from your original post) and was surprised to see that 'Nids went flier heavy. Just so you know, you'd have been in trouble against MC heavy nids as well. At the end of the day, you stacking up on blasts, templates and mid/low strength weapons worked against you as your opponent guessed correctly what you were going to do and built his army to take out yours. It's common knowledge that CSM have virtually no AA, so it was a smart move on his part if he only wanted to win, but as someone who runs Thousand Sons myself, there's no way in hell I'd agree to play against his list anywhere bar a tournament (where I wouldn't be taking TSons).
Edit: coz eye are knot gud spelar
Actually, Looking at the OP's list, his opponent is short on points, and I can make a battle forged list for the 'Nids to get to 1845 with the addition of spores.
Leviathan #1
230 - Flyrant, 2x TL Devs
230 - Flyrant, 2x TL Devs
195 - Tervigon
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
45 - Venomthrope
45 - Venomthrope
50 - Zoanthrope
120 - Carnifex
120 - Carnifex
Leviathan #2
240 - Flyrant, 2x TL Devs, E-Grubs
240 - Flyrant, 2x TL Devs, E-Grubs
240 - Flyrant, 2x TL Devs, E-Grubs
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
1845
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This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2015/03/10 01:52:24
Peregrine wrote:What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/10 05:22:00
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Crazed Cultist of Khorne
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kronk wrote: sniperray213 wrote:
When I made the list, it was suppose to be competitive till he said gak stuff. which made it unfair to me. and I agreed to only an 1850 list and not a feth you in the ass list.
Are you actually 21, Sniperaray213?
I have a hard time believing this is a legitimate thread or that you are as old as you say you are. I'm thinking 11, but that would insult the 11 year olds that post here from time to time. People are explaining to you, very calmly I might add, that the other player did not bring an "illegal list."
In this game, you can play unbound. You can also tailor your list, should you so desire, to defeat your opponent's normal list. You can also bring a "tournament competitive" list to a "friendly" game.
Here is the problem. You and your opponent did not seem to come to an agreement on the type of game you want to play. In the future, you should agree before hand on the type of game to play. If the other person shows up with a list that does not meet the specified agreement, then don't play.
It's that simple.
In this case, you agreed to play the game, so stop griping. Next time, just say no. But do it politely.
I am 21
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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
FOR THE EMPEROR
For there is light, There is darkness.
For there is good, There is evil
For there is life, There is death
For there is peace, There is Chaos.
Never Give Up, Never Surrender
Heaven and Hell are at War & my soul is the battle ground.
Thus if im good, I cant be evil. But if im evil, Thus must kill for Blood. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/10 05:30:26
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Crazed Cultist of Khorne
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Drasius wrote: sniperray213 wrote:I never officially agreed to the list. he had an actual 1850 list but he said tailoring like an ass and threw the unfair list at me. The Terminator Sorcerer was using Biomancy powers for buffs. and Be'lakor died without having a single power go off.
1st, you need to understand that as soon as you roll dice against someone on T1, you've agreed to their list, otherwise you wouldn't have played. If you see someone put stuff on the table you don't want to play, inform them of that (as politely as you can manage) and decline the game or come to an agreement on alternate lists.
Frozocrone wrote:From what you described your list as, Battlescribe says you brought a 1900 list. If that's true, then the only illegal list was yours.
sniperray213 wrote:my list wast illegal. I wrote the entire list without battlescribe. just pen and paper and the codex
It was not legal (over the agreed points limit) and unbound (only 1 troop). You might want to check your codex mate;
HQ
350 - Be'lakor
170 - Sorc, ML3, Terminator armour, Murder Sword
Elite
110 - Helbrute, Thunderhammer, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter
312 - 10x Thousand Sons, Rhino w/ Havok Launcher
Troops
270 - 10x CSM w/ CCW & BP, ML, Flamer, Mark of Slaneesh, Icon of Excess, Rhino w/ Havok Launcher, Power Sword
Fast Attack
123 - 3x Bikers of Nurgle, 2x Flamers, Icon of Vengence, Mark of Nurgle
170 - Heldrake
170 - Heldrake
Heavy Support
195 - Defiler
1870 total and only 1 troops choice (Thousand Sons are elites unless your primary detatchment includes a sorceror with mark of Tzeentch, which yours doesn't). if I had to guess, you forgot to give your CSM the Mark of Slaneesh, they can't take the Icon of Excess if they don't have it.
sniperray213 wrote:my list was to go against his list that wasn't unbound. which makes it competitive. but no it was bs that he threw an ass move
Obligatory Princess Bride quote. Competative means you have an answer for most lists or have skewed your list to the point where your opponents don't or can't have an answer for what you put on the table. 5 flyrants is an example of that, your army is not. If you meant casual or friendly, then your list barely qualifies there as belakor and a pair of drakes isn't exactly casual. What would you have said if you played foot marines with no skyfire and your 'drakes flew around killing his entire army and he had no way to stop it hmmm?
sniperray213 wrote:My list was not unbound. The reason I couldn't take a Mark is that if it was given a mark, only 1 power will have to go to that official mark while the rest of the powers go to a different table. That is how Sorcerers work. I didn't cheat. I couldn't do nothing at all against an unfair 5 tyrants with only 1 Demon Prince and 2 flyers. If I was using Vendettas, that would have been different. But no I made a list with 2 models that I didn't know gak about yet and I wanted to learn how to use that kind of model.
Yes, it was unbound, we have already established that. If you want to take a mark, yes, you have to roll at least once on that gods table (or twice for lvl 3's, but nobody ever does since the powers are all worse than the main rule book powers) and the remainder can go on Bio/Tele/Pyro/Sanctic/Maelific. That's the hidden price you pay for taking a mark on a sorceror. The rest of us shrug at our crappy codex and deal with it. You did cheat since you brought more than 1850 points to a 1850 game. It might not have been intentional, but you did have an unfair advantage by taking more points than you opponent. If there was nothing you could have done (there wasn't), decline the game as you won't be having fun. If you're looking to learn how to use a model, explain that to your opponent and come to an agreement.
sniperray213 wrote:When I made the list, it was suppose to be competitive till he said gak stuff. which made it unfair to me. and I agreed to only an 1850 list and not a feth you in the ass list. The sorcerer was gonna have a mark of Tzeench but no. The guy had to be a total ass
We've already touched on the "competative" bit, as well as the "unfair" bit. I'm still not sure why you didn't give your sorceror the mark of Tzeentch, though I'm not sure why you took him at all in the first place. He can't be attached to anyone without forcing your thousand sons out of their rhino and is easy first blood on his own. Defilers are bad, as battlecannons are poor and force the remaining weapons to snapfire if it fires and the front and side armour are low for a 200 point unit. Thousand Sons are terrible as they are incredibly expensive and cover is easy to get, negating their AP3 bolters and they die to small arms fire exactly the same as normal marines whicle costing almost twice as much. You've way overspent on your CSM, 10 guys, 2 plasma guns, a melta bomb on the sarge and a bare bones rhino. 210 points. Done. You spent 25 points on an icon for 3 guys who only cost 98 points, that's crazy. Helbrutes are terrible outside of their formations, and taking a TL heavy bolter instead of a melta gun is madness, let alone actually paying points to do so. Havok launchers have their place, but you have to know when, and your list certainly isn't one of them. Only having a single heavy support in an 1850 chaos list is crazy. Oblits are a great choice and would have given you at least some sort of makeshift AA along with a forgefiend (where his crappy BS doesn't matter since he's hitting on 6's anyway)
If I had to guess, I'd say you aimed your list at killing masses of infantry, expecting gaunts (and also able to kill guard from your original post) and was surprised to see that 'Nids went flier heavy. Just so you know, you'd have been in trouble against MC heavy nids as well. At the end of the day, you stacking up on blasts, templates and mid/low strength weapons worked against you as your opponent guessed correctly what you were going to do and built his army to take out yours. It's common knowledge that CSM have virtually no AA, so it was a smart move on his part if he only wanted to win, but as someone who runs Thousand Sons myself, there's no way in hell I'd agree to play against his list anywhere bar a tournament (where I wouldn't be taking TSons).
Edit: coz eye are knot gud spelar
Actually, Looking at the OP's list, his opponent is short on points, and I can make a battle forged list for the 'Nids to get to 1845 with the addition of spores.
Leviathan #1
230 - Flyrant, 2x TL Devs
230 - Flyrant, 2x TL Devs
195 - Tervigon
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
45 - Venomthrope
45 - Venomthrope
50 - Zoanthrope
120 - Carnifex
120 - Carnifex
Leviathan #2
240 - Flyrant, 2x TL Devs, E-Grubs
240 - Flyrant, 2x TL Devs, E-Grubs
240 - Flyrant, 2x TL Devs, E-Grubs
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
1845
don't fakin tell me to look at my codex dude. and besides I could have split the 10 man csm into 2 5 man squads. im not faking dumb
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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
FOR THE EMPEROR
For there is light, There is darkness.
For there is good, There is evil
For there is life, There is death
For there is peace, There is Chaos.
Never Give Up, Never Surrender
Heaven and Hell are at War & my soul is the battle ground.
Thus if im good, I cant be evil. But if im evil, Thus must kill for Blood. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/10 05:42:20
Subject: How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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Tunneling Trygon
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sniperray213 wrote: My list was a testing competitive actual 1850 list. No unbounding at all. This is my list: Be'Lakor, terminater Sorcerer(Master lvl 3 with murder sword) No mark, a squad of thousand sons in a rhino with a havoc launcher(10 man squad), a 10 man CSM squad with 1 flamer and missile launcher, mark of slaanesh and icon of excess all with close combat weapons in a rhino with a havoc Launcher and the champion had a power sword. a Helbrute with thunder hammer and twin-linked heavy bolter, 2 Heldrakes and a 3 man squad of Bikers with mark of Nurgle and icon of vengeance, and 2 flamers and a Defiler. sniperray213 wrote: a 10 man CSM squad with 1 flamer and missile launcher, mark of slaanesh and icon of excess all with close combat weapons in a rhino with a havoc Launcher and the champion had a power sword You need to chill out for one, but look at your own post. That says a. One. Singular. And what is one CSM squad of ten? Well it's not two squads of five. Combat Squads isn't a thing in CSM and even if it were, that's not how the rule works. It is still ONE troop choice. So no, you do need to check your codex and work on your attitude. If you EVER hope to be competitive in this game you need to learn how to do so and not cry when a better list stomps you. People are giving legitimate advice, not everyone but the guy you're being snarky to happens to be giving good advice, and you want to act like a petulant child. Chill, have a good think about your list, research what it actually takes to be competitive, learn the difference between legal and illegal and maybe you'll find the game more fun. You don't seem to be having fun.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/10 05:43:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/10 05:45:58
Subject: Re:How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Some sort of csm combat squads, eh?
Anywayz, you've missed another important part of the game. Missions. Flyrants are killy and stuff but they need to land to cap objectives.
And technically, he had a bound army
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
See, 6 troop choices. No unbound at all.
It's also hilarious how you accused him of cheating and bringing an unfair unbound army whereas his army's battleforged and your's illegal (>1850 pts) AND unbound.
Yep, the nid's army is very competitive - tournament level competitive. Spamming the best model in the codex.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/03/10 05:57:27
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