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I have 10 chaos terminators sitting on a shelf and as much as I try to justify using them I really can't find a way. I'm not a power gamer or overly competitive, I play for the fun of the game but other than fluff I cant really see myself fielding these guys. They lack the firepower to be a real firebase, lack the cqc punch to really take things down, and termicide with minimum and meltas can be done much better and with more options by Obliterators. Can they be used in a semi-competitive setting or should I just convert a few to oblitorators/chaos spawn ?

Know what's cool?

Dropping five combi-plasmas in your opponent's lap and vaporizing a squad. Alternatively a squad of meltas and evaporating a tank or a flamers to burn out something.

Chaos Terminators are best used the same way as Space Marine Sternguard with one key exceptions. Their armor saves, melee options, and chaotic benefits allow them to be even tougher and then survive all but concentrated backlash. But they're ideally suited to a striking in hard and making something valuable disappear.

Or lightning claws and a landraider

They can, but I suppose the keyword is CAN.
One advantage they have over oblits given our crowded heavy support section, is that they are elites. Not that it's a huge advantage.

If you take two oblits, you'll have twice the number of shots on termies and the same amount of wounds. And since Oblits aren't really any less suicidal than termies, the termies are better on the turn they drop. Which isn't saying much given how oblits can start on the board and be useful turn 1 without risking mishaps or tempting luck with reserve rolls.

Abaddons special termies are pretty nasty with plasmas against marines if you can afford to waste that many points.

They would be better in a footslogging list I guess, what with the banners and higher model count.

Basically the only interesting thing about them, is that they're pretty cheap and look cool. I've considered them a few times, but they never actually make the cut.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I suppose they make sense if you want 2+ save bodyguards with a character that you expect will be in melee at some point in time. Same save, same amount of wounds but more attacks in melee and can protect the character from more angles of attack and you can get the effect of the banner if you wanted to. Like feel no pain, which would make them pretty tough too.

3-4 termies with comby meltas/plasmas I'd say prety cheese ! I mean cmoon 110 points ? For 3 melta shots who else can do that? Just throw them and forget em thats hou I played with em !

They're doing good for me in small squads with combi-plasmas. Like 3-strong. Deepstrike them behind enemy lines or wherever help's needed and they'll do the job. They seem to be way better than sm termies due to combi-weapons and ability to come in 3-s.
I like combi-plasma more simply cause 12" double tap is much more reliable than 6" melta for a deepstriking squad.

 Dust wrote:
Know what's cool?

Dropping five combi-plasmas in your opponent's lap and vaporizing a squad. Alternatively a squad of meltas and evaporating a tank or a flamers to burn out something.

Chaos Terminators are best used the same way as Space Marine Sternguard with one key exceptions. Their armor saves, melee options, and chaotic benefits allow them to be even tougher and then survive all but concentrated backlash. But they're ideally suited to a striking in hard and making something valuable disappear.

Yup dropping in and doing damage. Then the enemy has to put some effort into killing them because 2+ saves and powerweapons all around is enough to bully shooting units.

 Dust wrote:

Or lightning claws and a landraider

No. 500 points that doesnt perform nearly well enough to justify it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SirSweetroll wrote:
I have 10 chaos terminators sitting on a shelf and as much as I try to justify using them I really can't find a way. I'm not a power gamer or overly competitive, I play for the fun of the game but other than fluff I cant really see myself fielding these guys. They lack the firepower to be a real firebase, lack the cqc punch to really take things down, and termicide with minimum and meltas can be done much better and with more options by Obliterators. Can they be used in a semi-competitive setting or should I just convert a few to oblitorators/chaos spawn ?

Im not sure oblits do termicide better than termites. 140 points for 2 twinlinked melta shots is not better than 115 for 3 melta shots. While the oblits have 4 wounds, they can be doubled out if you dont take MoN. They have less attacks in CC. They have lower ld.


Oblits are for more versitile, but not better at termicide with melta.

I'd love to have chaos terminators, you get actual decent weaponry and the choice to not be I1 !

Or lightning claws and a landraider



No. 500 points that doesnt perform nearly well enough to justify it.

Disagree. VS TAC? no, its over costed, I agree.

VS DA/WS bike spam its lethal.
VS other Stars that dont have 2+, lethal.

Its a board denial tool. No one wants/can touch it. Is it optimal? VS TAC - again no.
But you cant write it off as you have done.

Av14, mobile "bunker" with an average 19" charge, at I4, rerolls, ap3, 15+ attacks on charge + any sort of flamer/combi weapons is nasty.

Just, as usual with Chaos......situational :(

 Ratius wrote:

Or lightning claws and a landraider



No. 500 points that doesnt perform nearly well enough to justify it.

Disagree. VS TAC? no, its over costed, I agree.

VS DA/WS bike spam its lethal.
VS other Stars that dont have 2+, lethal.

Its a board denial tool. No one wants/can touch it. Is it optimal? VS TAC - again no.
But you cant write it off as you have done.

Av14, mobile "bunker" with an average 19" charge, at I4, rerolls, ap3, 15+ attacks on charge + any sort of flamer/combi weapons is nasty.

Just, as usual with Chaos......situational :(

Not even worth it for that situation. Lightning Claws are a trap, as those are points that can go into Combi-Weapons.
Plus, everyone knows that Mauls and Axes are superior to Claws. Even then, I'd rather just have the Sword because it is a cheaper option. The more points you put into Chaos Terminators, the more you end up being incredibly disappointed.

Idk. I think MoN or MoZ is worth the points

They work great assault from a land raider and punching someone important in the face, terminators are first and foremost assault infantry, they were during the legion and up to today a unit for busting down a door and enhancing the marine forces melee and short ranged combat effectiveness.

The terminator has few equals at this job and that's why he and the land raider were a match made in hell that destroys almost everything they touch.

 ionusx wrote:
They work great assault from a land raider and punching someone important in the face, terminators are first and foremost assault infantry, they were during the legion and up to today a unit for busting down a door and enhancing the marine forces melee and short ranged combat effectiveness.

The terminator has few equals at this job and that's why he and the land raider were a match made in hell that destroys almost everything they touch.

So what do the non-GW-salespersons think about Chaos Terminators?

I used to use them in 5 man squads w/ reaper ac, wasn't too bad, but that was last edition

3 Squads of 3 landing in the backfield and be effective at disrupting the backfield.

-Matt

Lets say I do drop 3 squads if 3 on their backfield, meltas or plasma? Which power weapon should I go with? I know it depends on the meta but what would be the most optimal for all comers?

SirSweetroll wrote:
Lets say I do drop 3 squads if 3 on their backfield, meltas or plasma? Which power weapon should I go with? I know it depends on the meta but what would be the most optimal for all comers?

If i use em, I usually go for axes, maybe a maul on the champ for his inevitable challenge. I also usually run plasma and melta in a 2:1 ratio, the melta goes after a hard AV target.

Again, that's if I decide to bust out the terminators for a day lol

Short answer, NO

Long answer, noooooooooooooooooooooo...

Reasons being you're eating up an elite slot, (and yes, I know the elite slot is pretty terrible as is) but honestly, why bother wasting 115 points on 3 models that CAN, potentially DS safely, then blow something up.

You have a 1/3 chance to simply not do what you were hoping to do with them, with the potential of having them randomly DIE. Sure if they land safely and blow up a land raider with 3 combi melta, its nice, but extremely unreliable.

CSM are riddled with unreliable mechanisms and units. We have the Forgefiend for instance that is a mobile platform that sucks at shooting for no other reason other than poor writing and rule playtesting. Why bother sinking 175 points into something that moves 6" and has garbage BS on a 3HP AV12 Walker? No thanks. Doesn't help its massive and priority targeted most of the time (Which hilariously can be beneficial seeing as how BAD it is in every respect) Even triple Ectoplasma Cannons are garbage. 24" range? No thanks, Id rather take Havocs... Wait they cant take Plasma Cannons, wait no, they cant even take traditional plasma cannons. Oh well.

There are so many damn options in the CSM dex weapon wise and unit wise that just shouldnt exist. Mutilators anyone? Warp Talons anyone? Forgefiends, Thousand Sons, Its all a massive waste of time if you plan on being an army worth it's salt on the board. Fluff wise, sure, knock yourself out with your Tzeentch army, whom still have no real fluff ON THE TABLE to benefit your army. We get Thousand Sons CSMs, not even Terminators, and all they get are AP3 Bolters? LOL

I have nearly 20k points of CSM at this point, and it's only getting smaller. That entire reason is being GW are racist, against their equality of their products being sold to different consumers. SMs will forever be their babies and Eldar will forever get nifty rules which makes them both competitive and fun. CSM are labeled "Bad guys" and therefore cannot be competitive outside Forgeworld bought models and special rules and books. So we are forced to dish out more money for more models, that most of the times arent even allowed at local tournaments or even GW held friendly tournaments. Like god forbid I brought a Fire Raptor Gunship to a 1500 point local tournament. I'd get shot outside the store by some angry kid screaming "DIE HERETIC!"

I don't know how long you've been playing chaos, but I remember back in the day when you could get 2 heavy weapons on a squad of 5 infiltrating chaos veterans, and had the ability to make them troops. I seem to recall lists with 25-30 heavy weapons, most of which infiltrated.
Chaos was good for some time, but when the pendulum swung back, it swung back hard.

Now we have necrons as "The" bad guys, so who needs an effective chaos force.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
I don't know how long you've been playing chaos, but I remember back in the day when you could get 2 heavy weapons on a squad of 5 infiltrating chaos veterans, and had the ability to make them troops. I seem to recall lists with 25-30 heavy weapons, most of which infiltrated.
Chaos was good for some time, but when the pendulum swung back, it swung back hard.

Now we have necrons as "The" bad guys, so who needs an effective chaos force.

Quite true.

Even with the poor wording on the Heldrake for a while which caused a hail of gunfire from the Errata which said it was a Turret Mounted Weapon, Chaos were in a great spot for a short time. When that got changed though, people started putting Neuter Cones on their drakes lol I actually found that more entertaining than the games themselves..

Chaos as a faction had some good times, but you hit it spot on, those good times were often followed with the complete opposite side of the spectrum.

Daemons however, I'm finding extremely fun to play. However now that SM have had WWs coming in squadrons of 1-3 capable of Ignoring cover, the 1200ish Dollars Ive spent on my nurgle army is kinda wasted now that 3 WWs shooting at the same target has those shots ignore cover v_v"

They've won me games. A small cheap, yet annoying squad that can clear out the backlines or help deal with a vehicle or MC is invaluable.

I take axes and maces, however, i'm thinking of some other weapon for a champ. Maybe a power sword. They often end up in challenges against regular dudes in 3+ armor or worse, so striking at ini is quite helpful. Might even consider a Lightning Claw, but it costs a bit extra. Or a lance if only it didn't look a bit odd on a termie.

As for combi weapons, i've found out combi-plasma to be doing better in general. Just changes the way you drop them and targets you pick. But it's more reliable than melta.

From facing them several times I have found that they can be quite hit and miss, either doing amazing game changing feats to performing badly and just getting wiped out to concentrated firepower.

In one example they managed to kill my Blood Angels librarian dreadnought (also my warlord) with some chainfist attacks and that action won the game for my opponent. Other times they arrived from deep strike (when not mis haping), fire off a couple of shots before I drowned them with bullets, plasma and grav. A 5 plus invun save is pants against massed AP2 fire.

I would say that their loadout is dependent upon how you are fielding them - if deep striking then ranged weaponry with the odd chainfist, but if in a landraider then load up on all melee weapons to assault out of it with.

2 ways I've found them useful (over only 4 games bear in mind, 3 for the first instance and once for the second):

Abaddon + 3-4 termis with MoK, BoW, and 1fist in a dreadclaw. Absolutely and utterly LETHAL every time I've used it (3). Eldar, Crons and (my own used by a mates) BA. Against the Eldar they destroyed an entire flank over the course of a few turns (with spawn support), whilst my GBS dealt with the other flank. Do you shoot at Abbadon or a GBS - quite a conundrum.

Other instance was when I tried out The Purge. The Purge allows for 6 elites (2 of which compulsory) and 4 HS (1 HQ is the only other compulsory). I took 3 with 3 combi-plas and 3 with 3 combi-melta. They did all right. Nout special. But not too bad for the elite tax. Did a hell of a lot more than cultists ever do!

Well that's abaddon... different story .
In raw melee prowess, the mutilators and termies are fairly close, but I find that the ability to take a heavy flamer on the termies is a game changer. The bolters don't do an awful lot for me though.

I run a squad of x5 terminators with lvl 3 termi sorcerer as my HQ hunters almost every game. They work great!
The squad is equipped with power axes, a reaper autocannon, combi-melta and mot. The sorcerer a force sword, combi-melta, spell familiar, sigil of corruption, termi armour and will role all on biomancy and prey for endurance. Having 2+ armour 4+ invul and 4+ fnp is terrifying when its in your backfield and with this formation your terminators will be far more durable.

Spot enemy HQ, drop and pop, watch your opponent try to reroute troops to defend his HQ. This strategy + squad has worked very well for me in my experience playing csm. Careful against carnifexs and Thunderwolf cavalry though.

Chaos melta termi drop teams are quite nasty.

First you melta a tank (MC if none avilable, in there are none of those too, well feth.), giving you a decent kill chance, then you still got a bunch of budget terminators sitting around enemy lines with power weapons, forcing a response.

Its a "kill them, or get fethed" scenario, and that means alot for a codex as up-close-and-personal as CSM, where every distraction that forces the opponent's hands is valuable as it allows you to close in with your main force unhindered.

 darkflame182 wrote:
3-4 termies with comby meltas/plasmas I'd say prety cheese ! I mean cmoon 110 points ? For 3 melta shots who else can do that? Just throw them and forget em thats hou I played with em !

Tau can pull the melta/plasma off pretty easy, along with the same DS benefits. Not sure who else, prolly guard vet squads can get the 3 PR/MGs too for that price. (and are chaos termies really less than 40pt each? 110 seems too low iirc)

 Wolfblade wrote:

 darkflame182 wrote:
3-4 termies with comby meltas/plasmas I'd say prety cheese ! I mean cmoon 110 points ? For 3 melta shots who else can do that? Just throw them and forget em thats hou I played with em !

Tau can pull the melta/plasma off pretty easy, along with the same DS benefits. Not sure who else, prolly guard vet squads can get the 3 PR/MGs too for that price. (and are chaos termies really less than 40pt each? 110 seems too low iirc)

Chaos terminators are only 31 pts apiece before upgrades and get a power sword, axe or maul for free and can take combi weapons for less points then chosen can.
If played appropriately csm terminators can be fairly nasty.

I have been thinking of running 5 [Combs-Weapons and a Reaper Auro-Cannon] of them as a body guard for my MoT Sorcerer. With Sanctuary I can end up with a 2++ and a bunch of 3++ Saves

Will work out pretty good. If you can though try and stay away from combi plasma. Its terrible when your squad drops and two of your terminators murder themselves cause of gets hot.
But a x5 man squad with combi meltas and combi melta on the sorcerer is a lot of fun and IMO the reaper autocannon is great against lower toughness HQ's like DE or Eldar.

Back in 6th edition I ran decked out nob-biker deathstar, with all the upgrades. And in all of my games in 6th edition that unit was only ever completely destroyed twice.

Once by a grey-knight army who fired everything in to it with psycannons and an assasin, and it took a couple turns.

And the other was by a unit of chaos terminators. Cypher was included with that unit though, and there was also a lord in there. So it was a counter-deathstar.

But I think they are way more versatile than regular space marine terminators because they are cheaper naked, and you can mix in shooty with choppy in the same unit. And if buffed they are crazy good.