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Yes its that time again people. We're in the end of and start of the Walking Dead and Fear the Walking. Also the coming series of Containment
So its time for mental gymnastics.

Top ten places to survive the Apocalypse
10. Arlington, VA
9. Little Rock, AR
8. Virginia Beach, VA
7. Boise City, ID
6. Huntsville, AL
5. Lubbock, TX
4. Stamford, CT
3. Anchorage, AK
2. Tampa, FL
1. Columbia, MO

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/10/27/these-are-the-top-10-places-in-the-u-s-to-survive-a-zombie-apocalypse/

Instead of Zombies though. Lets go with a strain that makes people bat crap crazy and infects anyone with body fluid transfer.
So here are the goals

Location
Defense
Expandibility
Resource gathering
Offense
etc
etc

I know I will not be anywhere near DC of the East coast near the DC

This I hope will be different for if you make a suggestion. You have to back up that suggestion



I throw in these babies.....carrier deck can be used to farm crops, hangar bay live stocks. Pier can be launching point for netting fish.
Expandibility to another carrier
Easily defendable. They have to go down the pier to get to carrier EECP. Access to water. being it "rains" here a bit.
National Guard armory will have weapons. JBLM has a huge AHA (Ammunition Holding Area)
Road access
"Island" of the carrier can be used at a LP/OP

Lets roll with it
So lets get cracking

Waaay too many warm areas for that to be a good list. ID and AK are the only ones I would agree with.

Were not getting traditional zombies that can beat the freezing point of water somehow in real life, were getting 28 days later but smarter and stab-happier zombies if it ever happens. So I will take my tundra thank you all very much.

Location of where in the Tundra. What will assist you to survive. I have extreme cold weather training so I know what I can do and what I can't do lol

Seriously? #1 is in my back yard in Columbia, MO?

o.O

I like moats:


or, squat/refurbish defunct missile silos:

 Jihadin wrote:
Lets go with a strain that makes people bat crap crazy and infects anyone with body fluid transfer.

Let's call that strain "Tinder".

 Jihadin wrote:

Instead of Zombies though. Lets go with a strain that makes people bat crap crazy and infects anyone with body fluid transfer.

You mean the series Crossed (can't find a SFW picture to post...)? Heh, which deliberately goes out of its way to point out that no matter how good a fortress you have, things'll break down eventually. Hmn, though the infected in that vary from 28 Days Later "I'm gonna eat 'cha" to "let's catapult an infected baby over your wall with a blanket, shoot it in the air, and let its infected remains rain down on the defenders..."

On topic, as good as a place is to defend, the examples so far come across as being defensible for a short term. What about food and logistics for access to the outside? Any place where you're going to survive for a long time's going to need arable land. Bonus points if the farms aren't obvious as hell, though I guess the whole thing's a balancing act.

There's some good old castles in England. Not entirely comfey but often walls are metres of stonework, designed for defence and often have large internal aareas for crops and storage.

Old but they have stop some for 900 years against various invaders in various forms. The sited are often easily defended and designed for smaller garrions s to hold vs superior numbers. Gates can be thick oak reinforced with metal plates etc. Nice and solid with a massive timber bar behind to keep shut.

Us wise, norad hq... Its a mega bunker designed to take nukes.

The key questions about a zombie apocalypse are:

What is the infection and zombification rate?
How long do zombie bodies remain active and dangerous without decaying into carrion?
How many survivors go 'feral' and become amoral marauders?

If the infection/conversion rate is very high but the decay rate of the zombified corpses is realistic, then you could expect within a month of the outbreak that 90% or more of the population had died and pretty much decayed to at worst nasty messes and skeletons.

If you managed to survive that long, there would be plenty of food in tins, dry storage, livestock, deer, fruit and nuts, depending on time of year, plus houses and vehicles and all sorts of equipment that would be easy to make use of with a bit of technical knowledge. With a bit of survival knowledge you probably could live for years.

During that first month the danger of zombies obviously would be greatest in high population density locations, so logically you should head out to remote countryside to hide, and return to more built-up areas in a logical progression. Move first from your remote farmhouse to a small village, observe local conditions, then move to a small town, and so on. Your main worry would be coming into contact with other survivors who had gone feral, though against this, you would also hope to be able to band together with survivors who remained civilised.

In the longer term, cities would be abandoned in favour of small towns with easy access to farmland as well as useful facilities such as rivers, mechanical workshops, storehouses and so on.

Of course in many zombie scenarios like the Walking Dead, the zombies defy normal processes of decay to remain a serious danger for months or years. If the zombies tend to move about the country, nowhere that provided facilities might be safe. Who wants to live on top of a mountain for years?

in 28 Days Later, though, it's clear that the infected victims starve to death fairly rapidly.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

in 28 Days Later, though, it's clear that the infected victims starve to death fairly rapidly.

Specifically I think this thread's referring to infected of the 28 Days Later kind.

Re: infection, and to bring up Crossed again as it seems like a good fit. The infected there are all dead in the followup series which takes place 100 years later. They're too self destructive to survive. Those that don't kill themselves either die from infections or Aids within the decade. Any who do survive are eventually too old and infirm to do much against the younger survivors who are savvy enough to take them down.

As has been said, best case would be an intact castle with decent farming space. The issue with that's finding one. At least here in Scotland a load of the existing castles which haven't been converted into homes are in a bad state. Naturally you could patch them up however. Considering that they were designed in a time without all the fancy gizmos a post-apocalyptic scenario would lack, they seem suitable. As ever, there's there issue of opposing non-infected groups.

I guess it also depends on the country in question. In the UK sure you can pick up a gun from a Reservist armoury, but by and large most people aren't going to be toting a firearm. In the US you'd have to worry about that kind of thing more. ...Or, if you live in the Southern States, the occasional recreational artillery piece (how someone'd wheel those to your base through the infected is another question. ...Though by the same token if the military's mobilized you could be facing armour re: the Walking Dead).

I hadn't heard of Crossed but a quick Google shows that efffectively it turns the victims into feral survivors without killing them. This is a far worse case than 28 Days Later, since the 28 Days infected lose nearly all instincts, can't feed themselves and will die of starvation or thirst in a fairly short time.

If you want to defend against Crossed 'zombies', your best plan is to band together with other survivors and learn the weaknesses of the Crossed and how to exploit those. For example, a lack of instinct for self-preservation is very anti-survival, so it might be possible to lure them into situations where they easily can be killed en masse. Alternatively, simple isolation from the Crossed people would lead to them turning on each other and reducing their numbers through attrition.

Probably the worst thing would be a passive defence of occupying a fortress, as this would give the Crossed a focus for their aggression that might enable them to organise more effectively. Though perhaps the castle could be turned into a mass killing trap.

I'd just steal a fishing boat.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'd just steal a fishing boat.

Pretty much my default idea for all outbreak scenarios. I mean my old home state of Michigan has plenty of islands in the great lakes that would make for prefect spots to hold up in. Hop in a boat and pretend its a weird LARP of One Piece. Islands all ways seemed to me like the best place to survive this kind of crap, I mean as long as you got some experience sailing or repairing marine engines you are really golden.

I would be like the typical western PA zombie Hunter, drinking iron city beer and shooting zombies.

 Jihadin wrote:
Yes its that time again people. We're in the end of and start of the Walking Dead and Fear the Walking. Also the coming series of Containment
So its time for mental gymnastics.

Top ten places to survive the Apocalypse
10. Arlington, VA
9. Little Rock, AR
8. Virginia Beach, VA
7. Boise City, ID
6. Huntsville, AL
5. Lubbock, TX
4. Stamford, CT
3. Anchorage, AK
2. Tampa, FL
1. Columbia, MO

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/10/27/these-are-the-top-10-places-in-the-u-s-to-survive-a-zombie-apocalypse/

Instead of Zombies though. Lets go with a strain that makes people bat crap crazy and infects anyone with body fluid transfer.
So here are the goals

Location
Defense
Expandibility
Resource gathering
Offense
etc
etc

I know I will not be anywhere near DC of the East coast near the DC

This I hope will be different for if you make a suggestion. You have to back up that suggestion



I throw in these babies.....carrier deck can be used to farm crops, hangar bay live stocks. Pier can be launching point for netting fish.
Expandibility to another carrier
Easily defendable. They have to go down the pier to get to carrier EECP. Access to water. being it "rains" here a bit.
National Guard armory will have weapons. JBLM has a huge AHA (Ammunition Holding Area)
Road access
"Island" of the carrier can be used at a LP/OP

Lets roll with it
So lets get cracking

Whoever came up with that list is good as dead.


When one approaches the subject of a hypothetical zombie apocalypse, or outbreak of a pandemic that turns the living into insane killing machines, you have to do it in the same way as you would any other man-made or natural upheaval.


One of the key points is LOCATION. Any location with a population greater than 50,000 is a potential hot zone. Same goes for any place within 30 to 50 miles of a major city, or 100 miles from a major metropolis. And if you're right on top of a major Interstate or near a military reservation, you're asking for trouble.


Let's look at that list, shall we?


Arlington, Virginia: Population as of 2014-229,302. Is in a highly populated region of the United States, has a large transient population, and is a hop, skip, jump from the District of Columbia.

Little Rock, Arkansas: Population as of 2013: 724,385. Is part of the Little Rock Statistical Area in Central Arkansas, with a combined population of nearly one million. It's a major tourist destination, cultural center, college town, and key industrial center in the South (i.e. large transient population)

Virginia Beach, Virginia: Population as of 2013: 448,479. Close to the Norfolk/Newport News/Smithfield area. It's the 39th most populous city in the United States, an important media hub, and a major tourist/retirement spot in the Commonwealth of Virginia. It's also in a highly populated area of the State known as "America's First Region", made up of several independent cities and towns dating back to colonial times.

Boise, Idaho: Population as of 2013: 214,237. While the area from Redding in Northern California to the mountains of Washington State offer many great places to lay low, the city of Boise is not one of them. It's part of the Boise-Nampa Metropolitan Area (aka Treasure Valley-Total population 664,422). It's a regional culture center, home to some major industry (including branches of the giants Hewlett Packard and Microsoft), a major communication hub (over 20 call centers, including those owned by a Xerox subsidiary, T-Mobile, and DIRECTV), and a major college town.

Huntsville, Alabama: Population as of 2014: 441,000 (Huntsville Metro Area). Second largest city in Alabama, core of the five county Huntsville-Decatur Combined Statistical Area, and next door to the United States Army's Redstone Arsenal. Major historical tourist attraction (with the ever-popular U.S. Space & Rocket Center, Space Camp, and Marshall Space Flight Center). It's also a major college town and biotech center second only to North Carolina's Research Triangle. Huntsville also boasts the largest and most well-equipped medical facilities in the region.

Lubbock, Texas: Population as of 2014: 305,644. Lubbock is a growing "Hub City", being the economic, education, and health care hub of the multi-county region in Texas. Combined with a modest tourist trade, and being home to a couple of small colleges, Lubbock has a significant transient population. Like Huntsville, if the gak hit the fan, and people started getting sick in droves, Lubbock is the first place people familiar with the area are going to in order to seek medical aid.

Stamford, Connecticut: Population as of 2014: 128,278, not including a HUGE daily transient population: Possibly one of the WORST places on that list. I won't get into specifics on this one. All somebody needs to know is that the city is 30 freakin' miles from Manhattan Island (i.e. New York City). Stamford is in the Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk Metro Area, which is considered part of the Greater New York Metropolitan Area. When you start hearing weird reports of people presumed dead getting up, or numerous reports of cannibalism, don't dick around. Pack your glad-rags and get the feth out of Stamford. Fast.

Anchorage, Alaska: Population as of 2013: 396,142. Hey, it's Alaska, right? I watch all of them shows on cable. Small population and in the middle of nowhere! Not so fast there, kudzu. Alaska may still be mostly snow, ice, and wilderness. But Anchorage is still a major, modern population center. In fact, 40% of Alaska's total population live in Anchorage (only New York exceeds it in terms of percentage of total State residents living in it's most populous city). Sure, it may seem isolated compared to other major American cities. But it's the site of a major U.S. airport (Anchorage is 9 1/2 hours from 90% of the world's locations) and a key hub for FedEx's global shipping network. The U.S. Military's Joint Base Elmendorf–Richardson is also in the area. Anchorage is also a major international port and one of the points of the "Railway Belt" between it and Fairbanks (the most populated area of the State). Anchorage, being the headquarters of much of Alaska's petroleum industry, hosts a large transient population. You're better off out in the boondocks with the Polar Bears and Kodiaks. At least you won't turn into a flesh-eating cannibal or homicidal maniac if bitten.


Tampa, Florida: Population as of 2011: 346,037. Not no, but HELL NO. Tampa is one more bad location in a State full of 'em. Not only is the city's permanent population figures too high for comfort, but because it's a major hub for finance, retail, healthcare, insurance, shipping by air and sea, national defense, professional sports, tourism, and real estate, it's transient population is also too high. Many of your major cruise lines have permanent berths in Tampa. And the medical facilities, like those of other well equipped facilities in other big areas like Jacksonville and Miami-Dade, will be swamped and will be major vectors of infection. If you are in Tampa when Z-Day rolls around, make a run for it before you become Zed chow.

Columbia, Missouri: Population as of 2014: 116, 906. The fact that it's population is a bit on the high side for any self-respecting survivalist, and that Interstate 70 (along with major State thoroughfares) is too close for comfort, is enough to make Columbia less than ideal. It being a major college town means that, like resort areas, fleabags are going to flock to it like flies to gak. The concentration of medical professionals (one of the highest in the United States) and medical facilities, will prove a ripe breeding ground for the infection to spread.

Another reason to avoid Columbia in a hypothetical doomsday scenario (like Zeds swarming around like Tyranids looking for OM NOMS) is it's politics and culture. Columbia is considered a "progressive" city, with a emphasis on "progressive" causes. You have a large artsy-fartsy, hipster scene with indie film festivals, an indie music scene, and hipster/neo-beatnik bars and arts centers. The majority political climate ranges from run of the mill liberal/traditionally progressive to neo-progressive/post-modernist (what netzians would call "social justice warriors"). In general, these kind of people tend to be slower than most on accepting reality, have an aversion to weapons (especially firearms), and find comfort in the self-delusional belief that "the government will do something". While the average liberal/progressive will eventually wake up and smell the roses (hopefully before they get OM NOMmed), I don't hold much hope for most of the so-called "SJWs". They'll spend more time griping about Twitter being down so they can't start up #ZombieUnlivesMatter.

You're better off elsewhere if you value your odds of survival.


The ideal location would be a rural or wilderness area, with a low population density. If you feel the need to be in a population center, go with small towns. The lower the population, the better (under 50,000 at worst). Preferably one without one dominate religious denomination or charismatic religious/political leader(s), hard working, industrious types (a pawn shop on every corner is a good indicator that the town lacks these folks), low crime/drug problem, good or cordial race relations, a good cross-section of skills, and law enforcement that isn't elected/politically appointed. Make sure you have a useful skill to barter your way in, since the residents are unlikely to just let people in out of the goodness of their hearts (and would have no problem killing you if you or your group try to force your way in).


I would prefer to avoid small towns myself. But I still would want a group that is versatile and willing to act like adults in order to survive. Because the lone wolf dies alone. A group that can run silent, lay low, and stay off of the radar with no problem. The last thing you need is a Duke Nuke'em getting "commando fever", and launch a Black Templar style crusade against the undead. Those types are good in a fight, but can get you killed otherwise (since escape and evasion should be your mantra, fighting as a last resort).


Relying on scavenging shouldn't be your primary means of resources, except as a last resort, or if on the move constantly for whatever reason. But there is nothing wrong with the practice as a supplemental means (i.e. adding more resources to your survival tool box/cache). But only do so when it's advantageous to the group. Scavenging in unsafe situations should only be done in the direst of circumstances. It's also a good idea if you are mobile, and are haunting a given area for a while, to have hidden caches in various locations.


Defense is mostly common sense. Be alert, be observant, and stay as quiet as possible. If you are based somewhere, make it as inconspicuous as possible, but with a good field of view. Know the terrain around your abode. Range cards for fixed positions are not a bad idea. Your defensive perimeter should also be inconspicuous, and patrols should remain small, have radio communication, and run quiet. If you run generators, construct a sound proofed structure for them if possible. Also, black out the windows of any structure(s) you are using to prevent any kind of light from giving you away to any jackals that would be happy to take what is yours, or the undead. Minimize the use of power tools or powered equipment (like tractors).

On the subject of weapons: There are ideal choices. But any gun is better than no gun at all. Just because you are "stuck" with a bolt-action Savage or Marlin .22lr autoloader, instead of an AR-15 or M1A, doesn't mean you are doomed. As long as you can hit what you shoot at, and are proficient with the weapon, you will be fine with it. Remember, avoiding trouble, escape, and evasion are the order of the day. Not going out of your way to get into firefights with unwashed, larcenous types, or waging a campaign of extermination against all the Zeds in the country.


If you are based, and come under siege, your group should have a defense plan. Layered defense in concentric rings, using your knowledge of the terrain, traps, and backed up by support from sharpshooters, is one way to go. Always have an escape route/plan (it's worked for burrowing rodents for millions of years) if your defense fails and your base is on the verge of being overrun. Me, personally, would go for a little scorched earth, and deny the attackers as much as possible if forced to retreat. This is when hidden emergency caches will be especially useful.


Expansion is something that should only be done when (or if) things level off enough to make it safe enough to do so, with manageable risk from the undead or hostile living. Survival is your first priority. Save the rebuilding of functioning societies for a time when the dead are reduced as a threat, and the hyenas are ready to come back from the caves.


Offense is a big no-no when survival is at stake. Sure, the best defense is a strong offense. But only as an absolute, last resort (i.e. retreat and evasion isn't an option). If you have to go on the offensive, other than clearing out a few Zeds here and there, then you've failed as a survivalist by violating some of the key rules. Particularly the ones that involve remaining inconspicuous, keeping a low profile, and thinking defensively. You're trying to stay alive, not start wars with other survivors.


I love these kind of discussions and "what ifs" Because I won't lie. I'm a prepper. I have a small stock of food, OTC medications, ammo, water, and other necessities. I have a "bug-out bag" and emergency plans. I have training in first aid and life saving techniques from my time in the military and law enforcement. For some folks who might feel daunted or silly over prepping, preparing for a "zombie apocalypse" is a fun way of learning basic survival skills that can be useful in any natural or man-made disaster.

I would hide out in a walmart or similiar big department store, preferable one of those in the middle of nowhere.
Food
Dirt and tools to grow food.
Large enough not to get bored
Recreational activity.
Easily defend-able
you can have a small society grow in there.
Heck, with some intelligence, it can be farely self-sustaining

If I wasn't a scrawny 14-year old I'd totally steal one of my scout clubs sailboats, tell one of my friends to follow me and stock up on canned food and survival equipment before sailing away. I guess fishing would be a good way of getting food. There are lots of houses on smaller islands in the swedish archipelago we could loot. We wouldn't have a lot of things to defend ourselves with, but why would we need to do that out on the open sea?

IIRC, the World War Z book, make of it as you will, had a few stories where being in cold environments like Northern Canada, were extremely beneficial as you only had to deal with Zombies during the warmer months when everything wasn't covered in ice. Not sure if this would be a valid strategy, but it would seem to be a good start.

The Caribbean.

Start with smaller islands and clear the zombies off them (burning the bodies). This gives you a base to start island hopping. Cuba may be problematic because of its size and population but the other islands should be easy enough.

Soon you'll have enough ground cleared that you can farm, use small boats as transport, and even have ready made quarantines for new arrivals or those who get sick later. Sharks and other sea life should be able to handle any floaters that decide to come visit.

Thinking against about the Crossed 'zombies', the problem for them is that there isn't more than a few weeks stored food to scavenge in any modern nation.

Clearly a load of violent psychopaths aren't going to be much use at operating infrastructure and the agricultural system, so they will starve or murder themselves in fairly short order.

The danger will be getting caught before the number of Crossed falls low enough to make them easy to kill off by co-operating against them.

Just funnel the Zombies into wood chippers:


Or, run them over with:

Have to think how many other people has the same idea
Island
Mall
Walmart
etc etc


I threw in the carriers because one its
1. Insane but cool
2. flight deck = farm land
3. Hand cranes to haul in the goods.
4. defensible
5. Harden steel target

Raven though hit. Its in the middle of a population area.
Tundra. Will Extreme cold weather survival.....I bank on a oil rig up there. Out in the water. Resource gathering be a pain in the butt though.

My place. It has the precious booze reserves we'll need to fortify ourselves after a hard week's work of cleansing Texas.

We'll decide whether to save the rest of the world, depending on how much the Pyrat rum and 12 year Tulamore Dew hold out. And if I have to break into the last two shot's of the TBone Reserve I will go berserk and eat the heart of every last zombie in the Americas. Do not test me on this Zombie peoples!

All I can think now is Frazz living in a fuel air bomb structure.....

 Jihadin wrote:
All I can think now is Frazz living in a fuel air bomb structure.....

I wish. The wife gets annoyed with my "I just want a bunker is that too much to ask?" daydreams.
After a bought of Mexican food, there's definitely a fuel bomb around...

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Thinking against about the Crossed 'zombies', the problem for them is that there isn't more than a few weeks stored food to scavenge in any modern nation.

Clearly a load of violent psychopaths aren't going to be much use at operating infrastructure and the agricultural system, so they will starve or murder themselves in fairly short order.

The danger will be getting caught before the number of Crossed falls low enough to make them easy to kill off by co-operating against them.

Not to go OT with the Crossed stuff (damn, shouldn't have mentioned that series...).

The first days of the Infection involve just mass murder. As time goes on there's less non-infected to kill, so the Crossed, as the series puts it, go from acting like children in a candy store to being more tactful. The Crossed are sadists, but get off on most any taboo, so they don't really kill each other unless they're really bored, because where's the fun in killing someone who enjoys it?

But yes, the majority die due to illness, exposure to the elements (put on some damn clothes...), starvation and attrition. 100 years later they're *thought* to be extinct. Well bar hillbilly families of inbreds who have learned not to kill their children.

In the context of this thread we're talking about dumb 28 Days Later style infected, which would result in The Walking Dead style scenarios. As the Crossed are regular people who just don't know restraint they're altogether more dangerous, though how easily led or ingenious they are depends on the plot at the time of the comics (which besides Wish you Were Here and +100 are straight gore porn, those two are good post-apocalypse reads regardless however. The prequel The Fatal Englishman, involving Gordon Brown is good too, seeing as it deals with concepts, again, rather than gore porn).

Derailment over.

 whembly wrote:
Just funnel the Zombies into wood chippers:


Or, run them over with:

Nah, we need some of these bad boys.

But with FIRE man!

Wait are we talking Bat Gak crazy as in Crossed zombies? or LFD aggressive zombies.

Because if we are talking crossed then i would probably try and get my self to an deserted island and hope for the best.

Aggressive LFD zombies? then i would go up north to canada land and let the cold deal with them.

 whembly wrote:
But with FIRE man!

Wait...why does it look like the operator on fire.....

On topic, we're discussing the 28 Days later style of Infected.

Instead of Zombies though. Lets go with a strain that makes people bat crap crazy and infects anyone with body fluid transfer.

I suggested that the above fits the Crossed. However as pointed out, that's far too skewed.

In a perfect world you could just disappear to Easter Island or the Falklands, though my original note about arable land would be brought up in those cases.