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Made in fr
Lesser Daemon of Chaos






Now available for purchase and still waiting for the FAQ.

Yee who enters here abandon all hope.

This message was edited 45 times. Last update was at 2022/08/13 03:31:01


-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

Nice. Would mean Angron within a couple years. CSM super doctrine or whatever. Multilators gone, nobody cares.

ph34r's forgeworld Phobos blog
+From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne




 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Courtesy of Dudeface ! Will update the OP, send new rumours through PMs if you don't want to clog the thread.



You're a gentle person and a scholar, thank you
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Glad to see these rumours finally making it to dakka, and thanks to DreadfullyHopefull for starting the thread and to Dudeface for being the first to break them.

A couple of important additional tidbits from the B&C leaker:

1: The Legion traits apply to everything, which would break from Death Guard and Thousand Sons if true. For those Legions, their traits don't apply to daemon engines and Cultists (not sure about Poxwalkers or Tzaangors).

2: The Night Lords leadership debuff doesn't stack with itself, but does with Raptors and (ugh) spawn. Which would make it effectively useless against high leadership units/factions like Necrons, Custodes, and "veteran" type units and big vehicles like most LoWs.

Edit: It will also be important to see which units can take those Icons. Right now they're limited to: CSM, Chosen, Terminators, and Raptors. One would hope they're at least extended back to Havocs again.

I personally find the changes to Chosen Raptors, and Warp Talons most interesting. Hope at least some of this pans out.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 09:11:45


 
   
Made in gb
Barpharanges







 Gadzilla666 wrote:

2: The Night Lords leadership debuff doesn't stack with itself, but does with Raptors and (ugh) spawn. Which would make it effectively useless against high leadership units/factions like Necrons, Custodes, and "veteran" type units and big vehicles like most LoWs.


I mean isn't it already effectively useless in 99.99% of situations?

The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.  
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

The inclusion of Emperor's Children is not good for Fulgrim and his boys.

 ph34r wrote:
Multilators gone, nobody cares.
On the contrary. GW should be making a 3-man kit of Oblits that also makes Mutilators.

That they haven't is another missed opportunity.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 09:12:48


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 blood reaper wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

2: The Night Lords leadership debuff doesn't stack with itself, but does with Raptors and (ugh) spawn. Which would make it effectively useless against high leadership units/factions like Necrons, Custodes, and "veteran" type units and big vehicles like most LoWs.


I mean isn't it already effectively useless in 99.99% of situations?

Yes, but one would hope they'd want to fix that situation, instead of continuing it.
   
Made in fr
Lesser Daemon of Chaos






 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 blood reaper wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

2: The Night Lords leadership debuff doesn't stack with itself, but does with Raptors and (ugh) spawn. Which would make it effectively useless against high leadership units/factions like Necrons, Custodes, and "veteran" type units and big vehicles like most LoWs.


I mean isn't it already effectively useless in 99.99% of situations?

Yes, but one would hope they'd want to fix that situation, instead of continuing it.


I don't know... Now a unit would lose models on 1s and 2s right ? With another -1 if they are at half strength, that's already failing combat attrition on 3s ! Could hurt on sizeable units ! Now the only question is: can they reliably make enemies fail moral...?

-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

GW seems to think that Fear mechanics work, and unfortunately Night Lords are the 'fear' Legion. So that's what they get, no matter how useless the rules have shown to be.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Barpharanges







My approach has always been to assume the absolute worst of GW. In this case, the approach has been validated - because GW remain committed to the idea of 'morale' mechanics in a game where something like 50% of armies notionally shall no know fear.

More interesting morale mechanics would, rather than rely on causing units to fail morale checks, work by harming their ability to fight effectively or provide Night Lord units with the ability to gain bonuses to hit them, etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 09:28:33


The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.  
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Courtesy of Dudeface ! Will update the OP, send new rumours through PMs if you don't want to clog the thread.

Chaos rumours from over on B&C:

Spoiler:

"Ok so here is a bunch of info I managed to come by from secure sources: CSM doctrine:

exact same thing as SM, except replace +1AP with exploding 6s (unmodified hits)

Icons:

vengeance +1 CA
wrath +1ap melee
flame +1ap shooting
excess +1 to hit melee
despair 6s to hit = autowound


All legions are getting 6 WT, 8 relics & 8 stratagems (Legion trait to apply to EVERYTHING in the army)

Legion traits: NL
-2LD & -1CA @ 9''
+1 to advance & +1 to charges
When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound
(Apparently doesn't stack with itself, but does with other LS reducing abilities)

IW
Ignores cover
Reduce ap1/2 by 1
Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound

WB

Charges/HI = reroll hits
5+++ vs MW
When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit)

BL

ignore CA
+1 to hit when charge or shoot closest unit
rapid fire/assault/pistol = exploding 5s (hit)
EC (4chain leak, not from my sources)

in the book

have a way of consistently hitting on 2s (even with thunder hammers)

WE
Not in the codex

Datasheet info: Chosen
3w
can use TH

Mutilators
no longer in the book
Warp talon

2w
lost cancel overwatch
gained no fallback
5a (these are total with claws)

Raptors
still have the -1LD aura
+2a

Obliterators
can shoot units that are in engagement range with them (like wraithguard)
in melee they have powerfists without the -1 to hit
3 different shooting profiles

Havocs
exactly the same as right now but 2w

Stratagems

something to ignore invuls (4chan leak, so take with a grain of salt, leak said EC chosen could destory custodes hitting with TH on a 2+ and with strat ignore invul saves)
NL deepstrike strat for jump packs, DS turn 1
NL vox scream disables AURAS

Other: IW ectoplasma forgefiend can hit on 2+ and does flat 4 damage

New cultist unit HQ

New mutant culstists

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373055-potential-csm-leaks/#entry5788127


For the, even after 20 years in the hobby, uninitiated... what does CA mean? lol

- 10,000 pts CSM  
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Spoiler:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 blood reaper wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

2: The Night Lords leadership debuff doesn't stack with itself, but does with Raptors and (ugh) spawn. Which would make it effectively useless against high leadership units/factions like Necrons, Custodes, and "veteran" type units and big vehicles like most LoWs.


I mean isn't it already effectively useless in 99.99% of situations?

Yes, but one would hope they'd want to fix that situation, instead of continuing it.


I don't know... Now a unit would lose models on 1s and 2s right ? With another -1 if they are at half strength, that's already failing combat attrition on 3s ! Could hurt on sizeable units ! Now the only question is: can they reliably make enemies fail moral...?

Except loyalists and Death Guard already ignore attrition modifiers, and supposedly so will Black Legion. Thousand Sons Rubrics are completely immune to morale, and Custodes are now L11. A more sensible approach would have been allowing the debuff to stack, but not allowing it to drop leadership below 5-6, so it would have some effect against "elite" units/factions, but not be devastating against low leadership factions like Guard and Orks.

H.B.M.C. wrote:GW seems to think that Fear mechanics work, and unfortunately Night Lords are the 'fear' Legion. So that's what they get, no matter how useless the rules have shown to be.

Not always. We used to be the good in cover Legion, with a heavy emphasis on lots of Veteran Skills instead of Marks.

blood reaper wrote:My approach has always been to assume the absolute worst of GW. In this case, the approach has been validated - because GW remain committed to the idea of 'morale' mechanics in a game where something like 50% of armies notionally shall no know fear.

More interesting morale mechanics would, rather than rely on causing units to fail morale checks, work by harming their ability to fight effectively or something.

Yes, that would be more satisfying than morale just = extra casualties.

Look, I don't want to turn this into just a big complaint about the Night Lords trait. There's lots of other interesting stuff to talk about here.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Semper wrote:
 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Courtesy of Dudeface ! Will update the OP, send new rumours through PMs if you don't want to clog the thread.

Chaos rumours from over on B&C:

Spoiler:

"Ok so here is a bunch of info I managed to come by from secure sources: CSM doctrine:

exact same thing as SM, except replace +1AP with exploding 6s (unmodified hits)

Icons:

vengeance +1 CA
wrath +1ap melee
flame +1ap shooting
excess +1 to hit melee
despair 6s to hit = autowound


All legions are getting 6 WT, 8 relics & 8 stratagems (Legion trait to apply to EVERYTHING in the army)

Legion traits: NL
-2LD & -1CA @ 9''
+1 to advance & +1 to charges
When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound
(Apparently doesn't stack with itself, but does with other LS reducing abilities)

IW
Ignores cover
Reduce ap1/2 by 1
Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound

WB

Charges/HI = reroll hits
5+++ vs MW
When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit)

BL

ignore CA
+1 to hit when charge or shoot closest unit
rapid fire/assault/pistol = exploding 5s (hit)
EC (4chain leak, not from my sources)

in the book

have a way of consistently hitting on 2s (even with thunder hammers)

WE
Not in the codex

Datasheet info: Chosen
3w
can use TH

Mutilators
no longer in the book
Warp talon

2w
lost cancel overwatch
gained no fallback
5a (these are total with claws)

Raptors
still have the -1LD aura
+2a

Obliterators
can shoot units that are in engagement range with them (like wraithguard)
in melee they have powerfists without the -1 to hit
3 different shooting profiles

Havocs
exactly the same as right now but 2w

Stratagems

something to ignore invuls (4chan leak, so take with a grain of salt, leak said EC chosen could destory custodes hitting with TH on a 2+ and with strat ignore invul saves)
NL deepstrike strat for jump packs, DS turn 1
NL vox scream disables AURAS

Other: IW ectoplasma forgefiend can hit on 2+ and does flat 4 damage

New cultist unit HQ

New mutant culstists

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373055-potential-csm-leaks/#entry5788127


For the, even after 20 years in the hobby, uninitiated... what does CA mean? lol

Combat Attrition.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 09:38:57


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 blood reaper wrote:
More interesting morale mechanics would, rather than rely on causing units to fail morale checks, work by harming their ability to fight effectively or provide Night Lord units with the ability to gain bonuses to hit them, etc.
Exactly. If the morale rules represented, y'know, morale rather than just "Some of your guys died so as punishment some of your guys also now die!", or, better, was reworked into a suppression mechanic, maybe fear might mean something.

But I won't let myself get started on that rant... I have a lot to say about morale in 40k, but I'll leave it at the above...


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 09:39:56


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Richmond, VA

I would love to see more human chaos units, so this sounds awesome to me. Bring on the cultists, mutants, HQs, and traitor guard. Just hook it to my veins.
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Courtesy of Dudeface ! Will update the OP, send new rumours through PMs if you don't want to clog the thread.

Chaos rumours from over on B&C:

Spoiler:

"Ok so here is a bunch of info I managed to come by from secure sources: CSM doctrine:

exact same thing as SM, except replace +1AP with exploding 6s (unmodified hits)

Icons:

vengeance +1 CA
wrath +1ap melee
flame +1ap shooting
excess +1 to hit melee
despair 6s to hit = autowound


All legions are getting 6 WT, 8 relics & 8 stratagems (Legion trait to apply to EVERYTHING in the army)

Legion traits: NL
-2LD & -1CA @ 9''
+1 to advance & +1 to charges
When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound
(Apparently doesn't stack with itself, but does with other LS reducing abilities)

IW
Ignores cover
Reduce ap1/2 by 1
Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound

WB

Charges/HI = reroll hits
5+++ vs MW
When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit)

BL

ignore CA
+1 to hit when charge or shoot closest unit
rapid fire/assault/pistol = exploding 5s (hit)
EC (4chain leak, not from my sources)

in the book

have a way of consistently hitting on 2s (even with thunder hammers)

WE
Not in the codex

Datasheet info: Chosen
3w
can use TH

Mutilators
no longer in the book
Warp talon

2w
lost cancel overwatch
gained no fallback
5a (these are total with claws)

Raptors
still have the -1LD aura
+2a

Obliterators
can shoot units that are in engagement range with them (like wraithguard)
in melee they have powerfists without the -1 to hit
3 different shooting profiles

Havocs
exactly the same as right now but 2w

Stratagems

something to ignore invuls (4chan leak, so take with a grain of salt, leak said EC chosen could destory custodes hitting with TH on a 2+ and with strat ignore invul saves)
NL deepstrike strat for jump packs, DS turn 1
NL vox scream disables AURAS

Other: IW ectoplasma forgefiend can hit on 2+ and does flat 4 damage

New cultist unit HQ

New mutant culstists

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373055-potential-csm-leaks/#entry5788127


Thanks for starting this thread!!! I am quite excited! After waiting for so long, CSM codex rumors are finally here! Quite a few of these all look very nice!
   
Made in ie
Dakka Veteran




Ireland

I doubt Mutilators will be gone from the book. Too cool a concept to abandon, just refine them and make better models.

The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Those melee focused WB rules sound much more WE than WB, to the extent that for me it seems probable that it's a mistake.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne




Billicus wrote:
Those melee focused WB rules sound much more WE than WB, to the extent that for me it seems probable that it's a mistake.


Don't forget World Eaters aren't in the book, so there's room for a melee skewed set of rules in there.
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 blood reaper wrote:
More interesting morale mechanics would, rather than rely on causing units to fail morale checks, work by harming their ability to fight effectively or provide Night Lord units with the ability to gain bonuses to hit them, etc.
Exactly. If the morale rules represented, y'know, morale rather than just "Some of your guys died so as punishment some of your guys also now die!", or, better, was reworked into a suppression mechanic, maybe fear might mean something.

But I won't let myself get started on that rant... I have a lot to say about morale in 40k, but I'll leave it at the above...




The irony is that they already have a fluffy and effective ruleset for Night Lords as a subfaction in 30k that they could easily tweak to port over to 9th ed 40k, but for whatever reason they don't. Even just having Night Lords have some sort of bonus against units with a lower Ld than them would be ideal (reroll 1's to wound or something).
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Dudeface wrote:
Billicus wrote:
Those melee focused WB rules sound much more WE than WB, to the extent that for me it seems probable that it's a mistake.


Don't forget World Eaters aren't in the book, so there's room for a melee skewed set of rules in there.


I'm not forgetting that so much as suggesting WB and WE may have been muddled up. "Good at melee" has never been WB's thing and has always been WE's
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





iron Warriors certainly seem to have a nice combination of traits, almost too good.
Ignore cover...of course
Reduce AP of 1/2 by 1, OK, can dig it.
+1 to wound for heavy/gren vs not just buildings, but vehicles (ouch) and units in cover.

That's pretty tasty and certainly encourages IW to stack on heavy weapons. Of course, if the doctrine is Turn 1 only (like marines) for heavy/gren, that won't be as effective unless going second due to opponent hiding. (I'm referring to the exploding 6s obviously here)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 15:42:08


 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Grimskul wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 blood reaper wrote:
More interesting morale mechanics would, rather than rely on causing units to fail morale checks, work by harming their ability to fight effectively or provide Night Lord units with the ability to gain bonuses to hit them, etc.
Exactly. If the morale rules represented, y'know, morale rather than just "Some of your guys died so as punishment some of your guys also now die!", or, better, was reworked into a suppression mechanic, maybe fear might mean something.

But I won't let myself get started on that rant... I have a lot to say about morale in 40k, but I'll leave it at the above...




The irony is that they already have a fluffy and effective ruleset for Night Lords as a subfaction in 30k that they could easily tweak to port over to 9th ed 40k, but for whatever reason they don't. Even just having Night Lords have some sort of bonus against units with a lower Ld than them would be ideal (reroll 1's to wound or something).

I think they were trying to do a 40k version of A Talent For Murder with the +1 to wound half strength/L6 or less trait, but if you can't get anything with better than L8 down low enough for it to work.... yeah, doesn't cut it. Oh well.

Billicus wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Billicus wrote:
Those melee focused WB rules sound much more WE than WB, to the extent that for me it seems probable that it's a mistake.


Don't forget World Eaters aren't in the book, so there's room for a melee skewed set of rules in there.


I'm not forgetting that so much as suggesting WB and WE may have been muddled up. "Good at melee" has never been WB's thing and has always been WE's

They were pretty good at melee back when they could walk up to you and chuck a squad of Bloodletters in your face.
   
Made in us
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The Great State of New Jersey

When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound


Wouldn't it be great if "below half strength" was actually based on the units max possible size in the codex as opposed to the size of the unit your opponent took? Kind of like an anti-blast type mechanic that punishes your opponent for spamming MSU?

Thats not what its going to be, but it would be great if it was (would make more sense from a game design standpoint to, as it wouldn't require you/your opponent to remember what the starting size of the unit was, only the unit size relative to its max possible size).

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in fr
Lesser Daemon of Chaos






Billicus wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Billicus wrote:
Those melee focused WB rules sound much more WE than WB, to the extent that for me it seems probable that it's a mistake.


Don't forget World Eaters aren't in the book, so there's room for a melee skewed set of rules in there.


I'm not forgetting that so much as suggesting WB and WE may have been muddled up. "Good at melee" has never been WB's thing and has always been WE's


I don't know. Mortals on 6s in melee feels pretty fluffy to me. Like, they punch the daemon into you
Plus that seems like a very fanatic thing to do. Like: "You won't worship chaos ? Let me "throw" the book at you."

Iron warriors also look pretty strong to me. You not only ignore cover, you force your adversary to avoid cover.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 15:05:07


-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
Made in gb
Never Forget Isstvan!






The Word Bearers stuff is weird and doesn't make a lick of sense IMO.
And as much as I love my grumpy little Iron Warriors, christ that is an insanely good block of rules. Like too good.
The Icons will be the same as they are in the DG/Tsons Codexes with some other stuff for the ones that aren't there and AFAIK Icons of Flame/Despair haven't changed since 8th.
I'm not trying to see like a downer here but these Legion Traits don't track with what GW has done with other subfaction rules, in that they've generally stayed the same.
   
Made in us
Apprehensive Inquisitorial Apprentice






 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Billicus wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Billicus wrote:
Those melee focused WB rules sound much more WE than WB, to the extent that for me it seems probable that it's a mistake.


Don't forget World Eaters aren't in the book, so there's room for a melee skewed set of rules in there.


I'm not forgetting that so much as suggesting WB and WE may have been muddled up. "Good at melee" has never been WB's thing and has always been WE's


I don't know. Mortals on 6s in melee feels pretty fluffy to me. Like, they punch the daemon into you
Plus that seems like a very fanatic thing to do. Like: "You won't worship chaos ? Let me "throw" the book at you."

Iron warriors also look pretty strong to me. You not only ignore cover, you force your adversary to avoid cover.


One would think the WB would get morale and daemon summoning buffs, since those are their sort of things. Maybe some sort of buff reflecting the fact that they actually have maintained legion structure.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne




 ProfSrlojohn wrote:
 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Billicus wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Billicus wrote:
Those melee focused WB rules sound much more WE than WB, to the extent that for me it seems probable that it's a mistake.


Don't forget World Eaters aren't in the book, so there's room for a melee skewed set of rules in there.


I'm not forgetting that so much as suggesting WB and WE may have been muddled up. "Good at melee" has never been WB's thing and has always been WE's


I don't know. Mortals on 6s in melee feels pretty fluffy to me. Like, they punch the daemon into you
Plus that seems like a very fanatic thing to do. Like: "You won't worship chaos ? Let me "throw" the book at you."

Iron warriors also look pretty strong to me. You not only ignore cover, you force your adversary to avoid cover.


One would think the WB would get morale and daemon summoning buffs, since those are their sort of things. Maybe some sort of buff reflecting the fact that they actually have maintained legion structure.


As per DG/TS summoning is now gone though, so you have.... morale buffs which aren't great but then what? They like possessed - melee unit and have a slight affinity for mortals as cannon fodder, in melee. With WE gone there needs to be a window for melee oriented foot sloggers and WB fit pretty well imo.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Tampa,FL USA

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:
 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Billicus wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Billicus wrote:
Those melee focused WB rules sound much more WE than WB, to the extent that for me it seems probable that it's a mistake.


Don't forget World Eaters aren't in the book, so there's room for a melee skewed set of rules in there.


I'm not forgetting that so much as suggesting WB and WE may have been muddled up. "Good at melee" has never been WB's thing and has always been WE's


I don't know. Mortals on 6s in melee feels pretty fluffy to me. Like, they punch the daemon into you
Plus that seems like a very fanatic thing to do. Like: "You won't worship chaos ? Let me "throw" the book at you."

Iron warriors also look pretty strong to me. You not only ignore cover, you force your adversary to avoid cover.


One would think the WB would get morale and daemon summoning buffs, since those are their sort of things. Maybe some sort of buff reflecting the fact that they actually have maintained legion structure.


I don't really see GW giving a subfaction a trait that's a bonus to a rule from an entirely different Codex.

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Gadzilla666 wrote:
1: The Legion traits apply to everything, which would break from Death Guard and Thousand Sons if true. For those Legions, their traits don't apply to daemon engines and Cultists (not sure about Poxwalkers or Tzaangors).


TS trait is the 5++, which applies to everything except spawn and cultists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 bullyboy wrote:
That's pretty tasty and certainly encourages IW to stack on heavy weapons. Of course, if the doctrine is Turn 1 only (like marines) for heavy/gren, that won't be as effective unless going second due to opponent hiding. (I'm referring to the exploding 6s obviously here)


Yea this is something that runs out of steam too quickly so unless IW have worthwhile traits and strats I don't think people will go with them outside of die hards.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 15:53:29


   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Gert wrote:
The Word Bearers stuff is weird and doesn't make a lick of sense IMO.
And as much as I love my grumpy little Iron Warriors, christ that is an insanely good block of rules. Like too good.
The Icons will be the same as they are in the DG/Tsons Codexes with some other stuff for the ones that aren't there and AFAIK Icons of Flame/Despair haven't changed since 8th.
I'm not trying to see like a downer here but these Legion Traits don't track with what GW has done with other subfaction rules, in that they've generally stayed the same.

The Icon of Flame is now "+1 Cabal point" for Thousand Sons. I don't think that would be useful for anyone else. And anyway, the B&C leaker says that they were using the Icon names as "placeholders" so everyone could have a reference for them. So the names could be completely different.

As for the traits "generally staying the same": Iron Warriors ignore cover - they already do that, Night Lords get a lame leadership debuff - they already do that, Black Legion ignore CA modifiers - that's kinda like +1 to leadership. And did anyone really want the Word Bearers trait to stay the same?
   
 
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