Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
No, spouting alt-right talking points like cultural marxism, islamophobia, etc. makes you alt-right.
No it doesn't. There is a degree of overlap with the moderate right and centre. Not everybody who cares about those issues are Alt-Right. You're defining politics in dogmatic, binary terms. Essentially you're saying you're either Left Wing, or you're Far Right.
This is why so many people are being driven into the arms of the Far Right. We have serious issues, such as uncontrolled mass migration and Islamic extremism that people on all sides of the politcal spectrum care about. But instead of dealing with those issues, the Left's message is "If you're worried about these things, you're a Far Right bigot".
That drives people to the Right.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/30 13:01:46
No, spouting alt-right talking points like cultural marxism, islamophobia, etc. makes you alt-right.
No it doesn't. There is a degree of overlap with the moderate right and centre. Not everybody who cares about those issues are Alt-Right. You're defining politics in dogmatic, binary terms. Essentially you're saying you're either Left Wing, or you're Far Right.
This is why so many people are being driven into the arms of the Far Right. We have serious issues, such as uncontrolled mass migration and Islamic extremism that people on all sides of the politcal spectrum care about. But instead of dealing with those issues, the Left's message is "If you're worried about these things, you're a Far Right bigot".
That drives people to the Right.
He is not saying that everyone who is not a leftist is far-right. He is saying that people who care about the political issues the far right cares about are far right. Which they are. I know plenty of center-right political parties and people, but none of them has ever talked about "cultural marxism", "white genocide", a ban on mosques or Muslim immigration, or any of the ridiculous political issues the far right concerns itself with. There is a pretty clear border between center right and far right, just as there is between left and far left. There is some overlap of course, but the far-right and far-left are much more extreme in their opinions than their moderate counterparts. They have a completely different way of rhetoric and normally believe in conspiracy theories. If you are worried about immigration, integration of Muslims, Islamic extremism and the preservation of your own culture, you are not necessarily far-right. Those are legitimate political issues that plenty of people in the center and on the left are worried about that as well. But if you want to "put a stop to Muslims and immigrants", and are worried about Muslims, immigrants and "cultural marxists" collaborating to destroy your culture, then you are most definitely far-right. Because those are far-right issues.They are far more extreme than center-right issues. I am not saying people don't get falsely accused of being far-right, but if you do get falsely accused, it should be trivially easy to rebuke with arguments. In most cases however, people who do get accused of being far-right are actually far-right but are just uncomfortable about admitting it, and since they can't rebuke the accusations they instead seek to slander their accusers or do weird stuff like this Sargon dude to establish that they are "totally not far-right".
Malus is right. If someone spouts Islamophobic nonsense and talks about "cultural marxism", the chance is 99.99% that person is far-right. Because if he wasn't, he would not be advocating far-right viewpoints.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/30 13:28:04
Da Boss wrote: Well, I hope we keep crippling sanctions on Russia and continue to seek further ways to hurt them. They are our enemies at this point.
Only at this point? Russia has been Britain's enemy for like the past 200-300 years now. Russia has a special grudge against Britain, perhaps even more so than against the US. But it is not too late to set aside mutual grievances and become friends though. Having friends is better than being enemies. Especially if the enemy in question is a country like Russia. Certainly, being hostile to one another is to the benefit of neither country.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/30 13:38:57
“You have to give it to her,” said a senior EU official. “She did in fact contribute constructively and positively to the migration debate. We will miss the U.K. for so many reasons. This is just another one of them.”
The common idea that it was always the UK against the rest isn't even true now.
It was never true; the idea that it was the UK vs the rest of the EU is an invention of the right wing to provide a scape goat for unpopular/ill considered domestic policies. Some examples: you can’t have nationalised railways (yes you can), you can’t subsidise or protect strategic industries like steel (yes you can), you can’t have blue passports (yes you can), etc., etc.
The sad thing is that she only did it because she is bigoted against any non British people coming to the country and only grudgingly accepts those that are allowed to stay. By leaving the EU we don't have to accept EU migrant quotas. The EU hence becomes a shield against people wanting a better life for themselves. If it fell apart then what would likely happen is more such people would end on the UKs doorstep that her and the bigoted Tory government want to avoid. An EU agreement only helps her bigoted mindset - nothing more.
In other news. School academies are now using German POW style punishment for children. Isolating them for the whole day without being allowed to talk or do anything else.
If parents did this, social services would be called. However it's fine for schools to do it. Too many school managers rooting for the Germans in the Great Escape?
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/06/30 16:37:24
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Da Boss wrote: Well, I hope we keep crippling sanctions on Russia and continue to seek further ways to hurt them. They are our enemies at this point.
Only at this point? Russia has been Britain's enemy for like the past 200-300 years now. Russia has a special grudge against Britain, perhaps even more so than against the US.
But it is not too late to set aside mutual grievances and become friends though. Having friends is better than being enemies. Especially if the enemy in question is a country like Russia. Certainly, being hostile to one another is to the benefit of neither country.
I am Irish, I see what Russia has done as an attack on Ireland as well, who have never been an enemy of Russia. We are caught in the splash damage from Russia's geopolitical games. We did not ever seek to be Russia's enemies, but they have forced us into a very difficult position with their bs.
So I want to see Russia hurt to the point that the populace wake up and realize that Putin is no good for them and that he benefits only his oligarch buddies. I do not think friendship is really possible while Putin remains in power, there is no trust or foundation for trust. Unfortunately, because Russia is a dictatorship and not a real democracy, Putin has many advantages over European leaders. He can play a longer game and does not need to worry about domestic backlash as much. So we must be quite blunt in our approach, because Russia is weaker than Europe.
As to the Academy thing, this has been a long time coming. Isolation was common practice 8-9 years ago when I was working in the UK, it was only a matter of time before someone systemised it, given the British love of standard systems. You guys are a lot more culturally similar to the Germans than you seem to realize. (And that is not meant as an insult).
Yes. And just for the record: "cultural marxism" is not an actual left-wing thing. It is something made up by the alt-right. There is in fact nothing left or marxist about "cultural marxism" at all. It is just a wacko alt-right conspiracy that they propagate to justify their blatant racism and discrimination. Also, it is basically exactly the same rhetoric the Nazis (and every fascist ever) used to discredit their opponents.
Yup. Basically, there was an old group of philosophers called the Frankfurt school who were marxists. They developed some philosophical theories such as critical theory.
From there Nazis and alt-right have extrapolated with no evidence that somehow some shady cabal of jewish marxists are behind every "decline" in civilisation from the sexual revolution to drugs, rock n roll, miley cyrus turning from disney idol to wild child, etc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/30 17:59:06
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Da Boss wrote: Well, I hope we keep crippling sanctions on Russia and continue to seek further ways to hurt them. They are our enemies at this point.
Only at this point? Russia has been Britain's enemy for like the past 200-300 years now. Russia has a special grudge against Britain, perhaps even more so than against the US.
But it is not too late to set aside mutual grievances and become friends though. Having friends is better than being enemies. Especially if the enemy in question is a country like Russia. Certainly, being hostile to one another is to the benefit of neither country.
I am Irish, I see what Russia has done as an attack on Ireland as well, who have never been an enemy of Russia. We are caught in the splash damage from Russia's geopolitical games. We did not ever seek to be Russia's enemies, but they have forced us into a very difficult position with their bs.
So I want to see Russia hurt to the point that the populace wake up and realize that Putin is no good for them and that he benefits only his oligarch buddies. I do not think friendship is really possible while Putin remains in power, there is no trust or foundation for trust. Unfortunately, because Russia is a dictatorship and not a real democracy, Putin has many advantages over European leaders. He can play a longer game and does not need to worry about domestic backlash as much. So we must be quite blunt in our approach, because Russia is weaker than Europe.
As to the Academy thing, this has been a long time coming. Isolation was common practice 8-9 years ago when I was working in the UK, it was only a matter of time before someone systemised it, given the British love of standard systems. You guys are a lot more culturally similar to the Germans than you seem to realize. (And that is not meant as an insult).
How has Russia forced Ireland to be its enemy exactly? Russia has never done anything against Ireland.
Also, hurting Russia is exactly what you should not do if your aim is to weaken Putin's hold on power. Russians are an incredibly stubborn people. The more difficult things get, the more they will set aside their differences and personal goals to band together for the greater good of the nation. Difficult times will only strengthen Putin's position. And on the other side, if things get better, people will attribute that to Putin as well, making them support him even more. So really, there is no way to weaken Putin's hold on power. It is absolute. The security services control everything. It is a very enviable position for any authoritarian leader to be in.
As an aside, Putin got popular precisely because he does not just benefit his oligarch buddies, like Yeltsin and most other post-Soviet leaders did. Russia has made massive progress under Putin in all areas (except for democracy of course). But Putin is also a pretty reasonable guy. He is not an extremist or anything. He does not want conflict. So really, there is no real reason for Russia and Ireland (or any country in the West) to be hostile to one another.
Ireland is directly impacted by Brexit, and may be even more vulnerable to it than the UK due to our small size and economic dependence on Britain. That is before you get to the trashing of relations in Northern Ireland due to Brexit potentially leading us back into civil war. My parents business has suffered a 75% decline in revenues from Brexit.
So yeah. Russia helped to cause Brexit to harm the UK? That harms Ireland, and my family directly, as well. So forgive me, but I am not in the mood to be sympathetic.
If Russians want to hang on to Putin, fine. We keep the sanctions on, keep cranking them up, go after Oligarchs in our cities and generally make life difficult for them.
If Russia wants to be our friend, then disinformation campaigns, interference in political culture and direct meddling in elections, along with shooting down passenger jets and illegal annexations are a pretty fething weird way to go about it.
Da Boss wrote: Ireland is directly impacted by Brexit, and may be even more vulnerable to it than the UK due to our small size and economic dependence on Britain. That is before you get to the trashing of relations in Northern Ireland due to Brexit potentially leading us back into civil war. My parents business has suffered a 75% decline in revenues from Brexit.
So yeah. Russia helped to cause Brexit to harm the UK? That harms Ireland, and my family directly, as well. So forgive me, but I am not in the mood to be sympathetic.
If Russians want to hang on to Putin, fine. We keep the sanctions on, keep cranking them up, go after Oligarchs in our cities and generally make life difficult for them.
If Russia wants to be our friend, then disinformation campaigns, interference in political culture and direct meddling in elections, along with shooting down passenger jets and illegal annexations are a pretty fething weird way to go about it.
From the Russian point of view you could say the same thing. Sanctions are a pretty fething weird way to go about friendship, no? Where two people (or nations) are at odds, it is virtually always the fault of both.
Russia has never caused harm to Ireland in any direct way. Russia may have had a hand in promoting Brexit, but ultimately it is Britain's fault, and not Russia's. Interfering in foreign politics and elections is something virtually every country does (at least the bigger ones), shooting down a passenger jet was an accident (and also not directly done by Russia, and the attempted cover-up is shameful), and the re-annexation of Crimea is something that does not affect Ireland or any other country but Russia and Ukraine in the slightest. Certainly it seems strange to declare a country to be your "enemy" over such minor, indirect offenses.
But well, if any country wants to consider Russia an enemy, Russia is more than happy to reply in kind. As I said, it only makes Putin even stronger. The best way to deal with Russia is economic integration, not confrontation. If Russia's economy were to grow and become more dependent on trade and foreign countries, sanctions would actually have effect, which would make Putin & Co. much more careful about their actions. If you are angry and want to hurt Russia, it may seem counterintuitive, but really the only way to hurt Russia in the long term is to be friendly to it. Anger and strife will only make it stronger. Russia has little in the way of economy, so the only thing that sets Russia apart from other European countries in terms of power is its vast military. Economic integration would tie Russia together to other European countries. It takes away Russia's ability to use that military power. And without its military power, Russia will no longer be a great power, it would just be any other post-soviet European country. Basically a larger version of Belarus, where all they have is potatoes.
From an Irish pov, anything that normalizes annexation makes us nervous, yes. For fairly valid historical reasons. Also, I have plenty of blame for Britain, but don't worry, I have some to spare for Russia too. And as someone who is not closed mindedly Irish, I also see what Russia was doing in the run up to the French and German elections, the way they fund the far right in Europe, and the way they are threatening our eastern brothers, and I show solidarity to my EU partners.
Add to that that Russia helped to get Trump elected, which negatively impacts many things I care about (the Paris Climate Accord for example) and you might begin to see why my patience with Russia is short.
As to sanctions, which came first, Russian bad behaviour or EU sanctions?
I disagree about the method of defanging the Russian bear. I think the Russian people have to become disatisfied enough with Putin's stupid games to want a change. Perhaps I am wrong in my feelings, but I think the effort Putin is going through to try and get sanctions removed shows that he is not super happy with them.
Btw, I have not up to now been "anti-russia". I never really felt any particular animosity and felt sorry for how the Russians were always portrayed as these ridiculous villains in American movies and stuff. It is the last 10 years or so that have gradually made me shift my stance, and the last 4-5 years in particular, when Putin is trying to shore up support given the failing economy with adventures abroad.
As to sanctions, which came first, Russian bad behaviour or EU sanctions?
How about nato's steady push eastwards...
We ourselves here in the west are hardly guilt-free of stoking this fire. The eu played a starring role in fermenting the Ukrainian crisis in the first place as well.
'The west' has been doing an aweful lot to prod and poke the russian bear, ever since the fall of communism, and has seen them as 'the enemy' for a lot longer. It's not a mystery that the west dislikes Putin, and remembers Yeltsin fondly, when he wrecked Russia.
Remember too, it's still within living memory when a certain Austrian led an army east and thirty million Russians died. Previous to that, a Frenchman did the same thing. Russia sees the west as invariably hostile, and their stance is one that can best be summed up as 'survival'. From the Russian perspective, it's understandable why they seek to weaken and divide their potential enemies. And we do exactly the same. Heck, even us in Ireland - there is No doubt In My mind we have stoked and manipulated individuals and groups in Northern Ireland for our ends.
And da boss, I'm Irish. Just do you know. I know how ruinous brexit is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/30 21:10:54
greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy
"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are"
As to sanctions, which came first, Russian bad behaviour or EU sanctions?
How about nato's steady push eastwards...
You mean when those sovereign nations voluntarily decided that they wanted to join an organisation that would protect them from invasion, following decades of dictatorial oppression? And offer them improved economic opportunities to boot. NATO didn’t invade or coerce anyone, in fact the main motivation was the appalling way those countries had been treated under the Soviet Union, which they wanted to make damn sure wasn’t repeated. I know that gets up the nose of the hardliners in Russia, but tough gak. Russia has no claim to those nations and needs to drop the idea that is somehow entitled to rule Eastern Europe.
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
As to sanctions, which came first, Russian bad behaviour or EU sanctions?
How about nato's steady push eastwards...
You mean when those sovereign nations voluntarily decided that they wanted to join an organisation that would protect them from invasion, following decades of dictatorial oppression? And offer them improved economic opportunities to boot. NATO didn’t invade or coerce anyone, in fact the main motivation was the appalling way those countries had been treated under the Soviet Union, which they wanted to make damn sure wasn’t repeated. I know that gets up the nose of the hardliners in Russia, but tough gak. Russia has no claim to those nations and needs to drop the idea that is somehow entitled to rule Eastern Europe.
Actually I don't disagree at all jadenim - every nation will have a different perspective, especially Eastern European countries that suffered under the boot of the ussr (my aunts husband's dad for example. was a pole who fought in monte casino (his war story was actually facinating, by the way), and never was able to return home after the war, though many of his friends who served and did, disappeared). My point was referencing the Russian perspective. Which is based on - from their POV - survival (again, previous references to european armies, still within living memory who caused the deaths of millions of Russians), and their perceived need for buffer zones and spheres of influence. It's all about survival and cold hearted pragmatism from them.
Oh, no, their former slaves have joined NATO, not wanting to be meat shields for all time.
Point was raised specifically towards 'which came first'. I'm not discussing 'right' or 'wrong', only 'perspective'. We in the west have played our role here too. I completely understand much of eastern europe's antipathy towards Russia - I have polish connections in my family. Russian ones too, interestingly. So I try to understand the Russian perspective in this too.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/06/30 21:47:55
greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy
"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are"
Da Boss wrote: From an Irish pov, anything that normalizes annexation makes us nervous, yes. For fairly valid historical reasons. Also, I have plenty of blame for Britain, but don't worry, I have some to spare for Russia too. And as someone who is not closed mindedly Irish, I also see what Russia was doing in the run up to the French and German elections, the way they fund the far right in Europe, and the way they are threatening our eastern brothers, and I show solidarity to my EU partners.
Add to that that Russia helped to get Trump elected, which negatively impacts many things I care about (the Paris Climate Accord for example) and you might begin to see why my patience with Russia is short.
As to sanctions, which came first, Russian bad behaviour or EU sanctions?
Well, EU and NATO bad behaviour came first. Then came Russian bad behaviour, then came sanctions. What will follow is more Russian bad behaviour. Russia's patience with the West has already long since run out, which is why they are now doing all this. As I said, two fight, two at fault. Fixing the relationship will not just require commitment from Russia, it will require commitment from Western nations as well. So far, they have never shown anything but hostility towards Russia.
Ireland, as a neutral country, isn't really involved in this though. Which makes your feelings towards Russia I don't know, seem a bit odd. Most of those things you list are things that Russia has only had a very minor role in. Sure, Russia indirectly meddled in the US election. So did Ukraine and a whole lot of other countries. It is not like those few posts on Facebook had any major effect. It is not like Russian agents were stuffing ballot boxes full of false votes. What determined the outcome of the elections was way more American internal affairs than it was foreign meddling. Russia is not responsible for Trump. The American people are (and James Comey in particular, with his letter). Russia is not responsible for the rise of the far right in Europe. European peoples and governments are. Russia plays a role in all this, but it is so minor it doesn't really justify all the anger I read in your posts. It is like instead of getting mad at a bully on the playground you are getting mad at one of the kids who is cheering the bully on from the sidelines. Is that kid doing something bad? Yes. Does that kid deserve a stern talk about his behaviour? Yes. But he does he deserve the same kind of anger that the bully does? No. Russia is definitely misbehaving, but it is not misbehaving to a degree where you should consider Russia an 'enemy'. You talk about your 'Eastern brothers'. Are the Russians not your Eastern brothers as well? Russia is part of the European family. The European Union will never be actually European nor a full Union without Russia. In the long term, further integration is the only way forward. It is much preferable over conflict.
It makes me really sad to see that Russia and a large part of Europe hate each other so much now.
Da Boss wrote: .I disagree about the method of defanging the Russian bear. I think the Russian people have to become disatisfied enough with Putin's stupid games to want a change. Perhaps I am wrong in my feelings, but I think the effort Putin is going through to try and get sanctions removed shows that he is not super happy with them.
Nobody is happy with sanctions. And definitely not Putin, as because I have said, Putin does not want conflict. He is moderate and relatively pro-Western as far as Russian politicians go. But economic sanctions aren't really hurting Russia. Russia barely has an economy that could be hurt. It imports little, and the stuff that it exports is stuff that you can't really put sanctions on (unless you want Eastern Europe to freeze to death in winter). Russia's economy continues to grow despite sanctions. The real effect of the sanctions is that it imprints on the mind of the Russian people the idea of a hostile West that is out to get them (as if that idea needed any more imprinting...). Which causes the Russian people to rally behind the banner of their leader, Putin, to oppose the foreign aggressors. That is just the way Russian people are. Basically, the more Russia is pressured, the more belligerent and aggressive it will become. Which in turn only increases the near-absolute power and influence that the military and intelligence services already have in Russia. It is a vicious cycle that probably will lead to some great future disaster. It is a cycle that needs to be broken somehow. And the current policies of the UK and other European countries are only feeding it.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:This is why so many people are being driven into the arms of the Far Right. We have serious issues, such as uncontrolled mass migration and Islamic extremism that people on all sides of the politcal spectrum care about. But instead of dealing with those issues, the Left's message is "If you're worried about these things, you're a Far Right bigot".
That drives people to the Right.
feth off with that "driven into the arms of the Far Right" bs. All kinds of people take serious and talk about the the problems with islamic extremism, issues with immigration and all that. The problem is that the Far Right's view on those issues is so very exaggerated, simplistic, and generalising. It's just a useless starting point for discussions and that's why it gets dismissed even if more moderate right wing conservatives use the same talking points (because they found some bits they like somewhere in there). If I remember correctly in the last few years far right nationalistic/"patriotic" extremists have killed many more people than islamic extremists in the developed world (islamic extremists do nearly all of their killing in Africa and the Middle East) but for some reason that topic doesn't get the attention and worry. Instead we get people wringing their hand about antifa because some trashcans were pushed over in a protest and some windows broke.
Here's what's driving people to the Far Right, a shift in the overton window that made those types of extreme bigoted views acceptable. As a result people who already thought like that aligned themselves with those ideologies now that they are more visible. If some pink hair teenager saying some harsh words about you on tumblr leads to you immediately agreeing and becoming friends with Neo-Nazis and white supremacists then either you are really mentally weak or you already agreed with a lot of their ideas and want to use that "criticism" as an excuse. But both of those issues are on you not on some whiny kid's tumblr diary.
For some reason the same tactic hasn't worked with feminists who were called feminazis all the time. Somehow they didn't turn into alt-right and Neo-Nazi cheerleaders and sympathisers when they were equated with Nazis.
No, spouting alt-right talking points like cultural marxism, islamophobia, etc. makes you alt-right.
No it doesn't. There is a degree of overlap with the moderate right and centre. Not everybody who cares about those issues are Alt-Right. You're defining politics in dogmatic, binary terms. Essentially you're saying you're either Left Wing, or you're Far Right.
This is why so many people are being driven into the arms of the Far Right. We have serious issues, such as uncontrolled mass migration and Islamic extremism that people on all sides of the politcal spectrum care about. But instead of dealing with those issues, the Left's message is "If you're worried about these things, you're a Far Right bigot".
That drives people to the Right.
There is nobody who says that cultural marxism is something to worry about who is not alt-right, because cultural marxism is a conspiracy theory invented by the literal Nazis, as in Hitler, Goering, Goebbels, Himmler. You know, that lot.
If someone is posting videos to youtube about how the bourgeois are oppressing the proletariat and that we must seize the means of production, then it would be perfectly fair to call them a marxist. If someone is on youtube claiming that there is some shadowy cabal of secret jewish marxists and feminists that are behind the decline of civilisation in order to topple capitalism and the west, then it is perfectly fair to cal them alt-right.
If you don't want to be called alt-right, don't peddle alt-right conspiracy theories.
Oh, and read the sources you are citing as evidence for your arguments. And don't complain that the video someone made critiquing your arguments is too long when you yourself make extremely long videos in which you read an article line by line and spout off points to say how awful the article is when those very points you raise as issues missed by the article are addressed later in the article.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/07/01 11:48:41
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
I'm not talking about cultural Marxism. You're conflating that with the other issues that you cited like Islamo"phobia". Have you somehow missed the out of control mass immigration crisis that's been crippling Europe? The decade long wave of Islamic extremism? The grooming gang scandals? The New Years Eve mass sexual assaults in Germany?
These are issues that Europeans care about. But the message from the Left is if you're worried about these things, you're a racist Nazi. And the only people willing to talk openly about it is the Right, and especially Far Right.
When there's a severe social issue that voters are worried about, but one side calls you a bigot for wanting it to be addressed whereas the other side, however distasteful or extreme, actually offers to do something about it...who do you think voters are going to turn to?
And what the actual feth are you talking about? I didn't cite any videos as evidence. Do you think I'M Sargon?
For some reason the same tactic hasn't worked with feminists who were called feminazis all the time. Somehow they didn't turn into alt-right and Neo-Nazi cheerleaders and sympathisers when they were equated with Nazis.
You're right. They went the opposite direction, to the Far Left.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/01 12:11:31
The EU is privately telling European countries to prepare their airports for a no-deal Brexit
European Union member states should prepare their airports for no-deal Brexit, the European Commission reportedly warned earlier in June.
A lack of progress in Brexit negotiations has increased the chances of no-deal.
A no-deal Brexit would be catastrophic for Britain and Europe's aviation industry.
It would immediately ground flights between the UK and EU because EU-issued aviation licenses would no longer be valid.
Trade minister Liam Fox warned over the weekend that the UK was "not bluffing" about its readiness to walk away without a deal.
LONDON — European Union member states should prepare their airports and aviation sector for a no-deal Brexit, the European Commission reportedly told diplomats earlier in June.
The warning was made during a June 12 meeting chaired by Filip Cornelis, the director of aviation at the Commission's transport department, Politico reported. It was attended by diplomats from the EU27 countries as well as representatives from their civil aviation authorities.
Cornelis reportedly told member states to prepare for the United Kingdom to crash out of the EU without a deal in March next year by focusing on areas of aviation including security, market access, safety regulations, and passenger rights.
It also advised airports to consider increasing their customs capacity. That is because a lot of cargo from outside the EU is currently processed in UK airports before entering the European single market. In a no-deal scenario, all cargo would need to be processed by customs officers on the continent.
The UK and EU have agreed on a 20-month transition period from March but it will not be ratified until negotiators can agree on issues such as the solution to avoid a hard border in Ireland, which is still a long way from being resolved.
That lack of progress means the likelihood of a no-deal Brexit appears to have increased significantly.
"A sense of no deal rising again. It's a total shambles. Nobody can make any sense of what's going on," a source close to the European Parliament's Brexit taskforce told BI.
A no-deal Brexit would be catastrophic for Britain and Europe's aviation industry. It would immediately ground flights between the UK and EU because EU-issued aviation licences would no longer be valid.
Trade minister Liam Fox warned on the weekend that the UK was "not bluffing" about its readiness to walk away from the EU without a deal.
"None of us, including me, want no deal," he said.
"I sincerely hope we get a good deal and I think that is in the interests of the European Union as well as the United Kingdom, but if politics is put ahead of the economic well-being, the long-term well-being of the United Kingdom, we would have to walk away."
....might not even get to use those blue passports anyway then.
Spoiler:
37 million packs, every month.
Vote brexit. Get medical shortages.
can we put that on the side of a bus.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/01 12:32:12
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: I'm not talking about cultural Marxism. You're conflating that with the other issues that you cited like Islamo"phobia". Have you somehow missed the out of control mass immigration crisis that's been crippling Europe? The decade long wave of Islamic extremism? The grooming gang scandals? The New Years Eve mass sexual assaults in Germany?
The problem is, that the right has not managed to hold up any actual evidence that mass immigration has actually caused many of the issues it blames it for.
Has Europe been crippled by mass immigration? Hardly, Europe as a whole is getting richer and stronger in many measures. It had an issue dealing with a large influx of refugees fleeing a warzone on its doorstep, but that is an isolated issue from immigration as a whole as refugees are a special class of person in terms of international law.
Decade long wave of Islamic Extremism? Sure, but that is tied to a rise in geopolitical instability in the middle east, which has given rise to many violent political groups. Blaming it exclusively on Islam is not helpful as it ignores the many other issues which drive terrorism. We are also seeing more right wing extremism and violence now, so should we impose the same restrictions on right-wing groups that many on the right wing want to impose on Islam? What is your proposed solution to islamic extremism that does not adversely affect the entire muslim population of our country, the vast, vast majority of whom live peacefully integrated in our society?
Grooming gangs are not unique to muslim offenders. Before that we had the catholic church paedophilia scandal, there have been scandals involving scout leaders, politicians, celebrities like Jimmy Saville etc. People preying on young people is an issue that transcends religion, social standing etc. It is also a crime that can be very difficult for the justice system to prosecute.
The New Years Eve mass sexual assaults that happened 2 years ago? Germany's population of muslims haven't gone anywhere, why has there not been a repeat every year since? Why were there not yearly reports of this happening before? It's almost as if there were other circumstances that lead to this than just "lots of muslims". One issue raised by the report following the incident was less police on the street than requested by the police. That will cause issues anywhere you have a lot of people and alcohol.
And what the actual feth are you talking about? I didn't cite any videos as evidence. Do you think I'M Sargon?
That is just a continuation of my posts discussion about Sargon's lack of credibility when he tries to claim he is not alt-right. He exhibits the same behaviours as the alt-right such as a focus on single sentences or headlines in articles rather than the points raised by an article as a whole. As such they miss out on context and often have "issues" with the article which the article actually addresses, they just either don't read that far into the article or ignore it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/01 13:09:59
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: I'm not talking about cultural Marxism. You're conflating that with the other issues that you cited like Islamo"phobia". Have you somehow missed the out of control mass immigration crisis that's been crippling Europe? The decade long wave of Islamic extremism? The grooming gang scandals? The New Years Eve mass sexual assaults in Germany?
These are issues that Europeans care about. But the message from the Left is if you're worried about these things, you're a racist Nazi. And the only people willing to talk openly about it is the Right, and especially Far Right.
When there's a severe social issue that voters are worried about, but one side calls you a bigot for wanting it to be addressed whereas the other side, however distasteful or extreme, actually offers to do something about it...who do you think voters are going to turn to?
And what the actual feth are you talking about? I didn't cite any videos as evidence. Do you think I'M Sargon?
For some reason the same tactic hasn't worked with feminists who were called feminazis all the time. Somehow they didn't turn into alt-right and Neo-Nazi cheerleaders and sympathisers when they were equated with Nazis.
You're right. They went the opposite direction, to the Far Left.
The vast majority of Europe doesn't care about that stuff. Most of the rest seem to think it's either overblown or fictitious (Like the new years eve stuff). The only ones being particularly vocal about it are the far right.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: I'm not talking about cultural Marxism. You're conflating that with the other issues that you cited like Islamo"phobia". Have you somehow missed the out of control mass immigration crisis that's been crippling Europe? The decade long wave of Islamic extremism? The grooming gang scandals? The New Years Eve mass sexual assaults in Germany?
These are issues that Europeans care about. But the message from the Left is if you're worried about these things, you're a racist Nazi. And the only people willing to talk openly about it is the Right, and especially Far Right.
There's no such thing as an immigration crisis. The crisis is coming from an inability of politicians to push back the increasingly loud (and obnoxious) elements that effectively don't like, or trust, people that "aren't from around here" (which is a general trait we've evolved from developing along the evolutionary tree as a certain type of ape). Because they are failing to deal with imagined fear then people are becoming both more hostile and scared and hence reacting by becoming more insular, nationalistic, less accepting and less tolerant. Many politicians are pandering to this to maintain their power. These are the people that deep down are artificially shocked that people are dying in the Med, but are really are just happy that there are hence less immigrants. That is the crisis the western world is facing. We can quite easily accept all the migrants if we wanted to. The crisis is because a loud group of people don't want to - and will find any reason why they shouldn't.
The difference between the 'far right' and the centre left in this context is this. The centre left are worried about crimes but see them as the act of individuals and that there should be appropriate measures to catch and prosecute crimes. The actions of the individuals are what should be dealt with. The current right wing trend sees these crimes as the actions of a broadly related group of people and hence think that all of these people should be punished for those actions. Hence islamic extremists and so forth. That leads to bigotry, racism and beyond that worse things. The 8 year old child being brought up under an islamic religous education is not the same at the terrorist who tells people they do it because of their, twisted, interpretation of islam. By all means curse the individual that might be a terrorist, rapist, paedophile but when there is an accusation against a whole broad group as perpetrating these things then yes this becomes racist, intolerant, right wing ideology.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Da Boss wrote: Ireland is directly impacted by Brexit, and may be even more vulnerable to it than the UK due to our small size and economic dependence on Britain. That is before you get to the trashing of relations in Northern Ireland due to Brexit potentially leading us back into civil war. My parents business has suffered a 75% decline in revenues from Brexit.
So yeah. Russia helped to cause Brexit to harm the UK? That harms Ireland, and my family directly, as well. So forgive me, but I am not in the mood to be sympathetic.
If Russians want to hang on to Putin, fine. We keep the sanctions on, keep cranking them up, go after Oligarchs in our cities and generally make life difficult for them.
If Russia wants to be our friend, then disinformation campaigns, interference in political culture and direct meddling in elections, along with shooting down passenger jets and illegal annexations are a pretty fething weird way to go about it.
Well. I hope you then don't count US as your friend either.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
"We are rolling back the over-stringent regulations on package holiday providers. Cutting out all the EU red tape will allow huge savings to be passed on to holiday makers setting off for the newly-popular post-Brexit destinations of Bognor Regis, Camber Sands and Rhyl."
and...
JRM giving his sly warnings to May again today on the radio apparently. "Do a hard Brexit or we'll bring you down etc." Brave Tory MPs rush to twitter to condemn him, "no appetite for hard Brexit" etc. Not brave enough to vote to give themselves any sort of legal oversight on the matter though.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/02 09:53:42
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
In a crossover with the US politics thread, Mad Dog Mattis warns UK to spend big or say goodbye to the special relationship (which seemingly wants to be inherited by France, or so says the US)
