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Does anyone know the stats for the soulburner ribaudkin from 7th? I'm curious to know what is used to do before it became a mortal wound gun.

 pizzaguardian wrote:
How would multiple overwatch work if it is done in fight phase. You just overwatch at every charger?

Actually, if Overwatch is in the fight phase. Then you overwatch a unit that piles in. You can keep overwatching units until you are engaged.


So, example
5 orcs charge a squad of marines
5 gretchin charge the same squad of marines
1 Nob also charges the same squad of marines

Orc player activates the 5 gretchin first and Overwatch occurs.
The marines Overwatch massacres the gretchin completely.
Orc player activates the 5 Orcs next and Overwatch occurs because the Marines are not engaged.
Marine's overwatch only kills 2 orcs.
3 Orcs pile into combat and swing.
Orc player now activates Nob and piles in. Because the Marines are engaged, the marines don't get to fire overwatch.

Daedalus81 wrote:
Does anyone know the stats for the soulburner ribaudkin from 7th? I'm curious to know what is used to do before it became a mortal wound gun.

No such thing, it's a dialled up soulburner petard.

I'll look that up for you, but it's a smaller gun.

Daedalus81 wrote:
One thing I really like is how clear and strongly worded these rules are:



No wondering if two butcher cannons will stack and break units like crazy.
No stacking extra healing keeping it from being unstoppable and clearly defined times when things occur and when they do not.

Also - it seems overwatch happens in the fight phase now, which means Wytches get their invuln (or they screwed up the wording ).

Where was that said (overwatch during fight phase)?

changemod wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:
Does anyone know the stats for the soulburner ribaudkin from 7th? I'm curious to know what is used to do before it became a mortal wound gun.

No such thing, it's a dialled up soulburner petard.

I'll look that up for you, but it's a smaller gun.

Soulburner Petard 24 inches: S5 AP5 ordnance 1 large blast rending.

The Machina Malificia implies that Overwatch attacks occur during the Fight phase.

Unlikely that you Overwatch in Fight Phase. There is a Charge Phase, so likely you declare all targets, charge, overwatch until someone makes it in, and then can't Overwatch once the unit is locked.

Gretchin, Boyz, and Nobz target a unit of Marines. Overwatch Gretchin, they all die. Overwatch Boyz, they survive and get in. Nobz just roll distance since the unit is already engaged.

Aha, OK.

 Galas wrote:
You resolve the charges one by one until one charge is sucesfull, I assume.

Which would mean ow in charge phase

Tha articles for the Charge Phase and the Fight Phase pretty clearly indicate that overwatch is done in the Charge phase.

Why would you think overwatch was in the fight phase?

Because, as has been shown several times in this conversation, the Machina Malifeca reads:

"...has slain any models in the fight phase, other than through Overwatch attacks."

That being said, I think that rule is just written badly. I'm pretty sure Overwatch is in the charge phase.

They're saying it's in the fight phase because otherwise the rule for Machina Malificia has spurious info in it.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Why would you think overwatch was in the fight phase?

Because of the phrasing on one of the Leviathan Dread's bespoke rules. But everything we have seen so far indicates that Overwatch is in the Charge phase, which means the Leviathan's rules are messed up.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Why would you think overwatch was in the fight phase?

Because of the phrasing on one of the Leviathan Dread's bespoke rules. But everything we have seen so far indicates that Overwatch is in the Charge phase, which means the Leviathan's rules are messed up.

But... but... they've been super playtested! Right?

changemod wrote:
Yeah again, it's basically a conspiracy theory at this point that space marines might be replaced.

Space Marines (codex/stats/points) are not being replaced, per GW statement.

What (clever) thing they did was to make new ("primaris") space marine models & you can use those new models as your regular space marine models and use the regular space marine stats and have your good old SM army still.

Their hopes are you buy the models. You can also have a full primaris army or implement primaris units into your army. GW already said Primaris are more costly in points, hence, a full primaris army will be 30-40 models tops. But, who doesn't want the newest shiniest true-scaliest models? Who wouldn't want to make a full Space Marine Army with these new beasties? That's GWs clever plan! So in a way, they might well phase out space marine models - but not the space marine codex/points/etc - but the models may have seen the end coming.

Like the new space marine models came out and the rogue trader era marine models faded off into history...

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
...Leviathan Dread's bespoke rules...

Thanks TFG Radio!

 docdoom77 wrote:
Because, as has been shown several times in this conversation, the Machina Malifeca reads:

"...has slain any models in the fight phase, other than through Overwatch attacks."

That being said, I think that rule is just written badly. I'm pretty sure Overwatch is in the charge phase.

Well, either the puff-piece article is wrong, the rule on a data sheet is wrong, or they just mentioned it on the weapon to be extra clear. The first thing seems more likely, but I guess we still have to wait to figure it out. :(

skarsol wrote:
They're saying it's in the fight phase because otherwise the rule for Machina Malificia has spurious info in it.

Spurious information in GW rules? Never!

skarsol wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Why would you think overwatch was in the fight phase?

Because of the phrasing on one of the Leviathan Dread's bespoke rules. But everything we have seen so far indicates that Overwatch is in the Charge phase, which means the Leviathan's rules are messed up.

But... but... they've been super playtested! Right?

You don't need to play test every single unit to sort out the rules.

It would make more sense in the fight phase vs the Charge phase otherwise flamers are near useless.


Charge phase
Assault marines 9" away charges a group of burna boyz.
Burna boyz would love to fire overwatch but their weapons are only 8" in range.

Fight phase
Assault marines 9" away charge a group of burna boyz.
Assault marines activate in Fight phase
Burna boyz Overwatch the Assault marines with flamers
Assault marines pile in.

Note: being in the fight phase actually stops all odd behaviors.

Though, by those articles the only useful way Overwatch could occur in Charge phase is if Overwatch occurs after charge movement.

Youn wrote:
It would make more sense in the fight phase vs the Charge phase otherwise flamers are near useless.


Charge phase
Assault marines 9" away charges a group of burna boyz.
Burna boyz would love to fire overwatch but their weapons are only 8" in range.

Fight phase
Assault marines 9" away charge a group of burna boyz.
Assault marines activate in Fight phase
Burna boyz Overwatch the Assault marines with flamers
Assault marines pile in.

Note: being in the fight phase actually stops all odd behaviors.

Though, by those articles the only useful way Overwatch could occur in Charge phase is if Overwatch occurs after charge movement.

If I had to guess I think they meant to say during the combat phase. I am guessing that Fight and charge are the two subphases.

However it could be that it is the Fight(instead of calling it the assault phase) phase and charge and combat are two subphases of the fight phase. Who knows. Might be an error, might just not have the terminology yet. We will see.

skarsol wrote:

But... but... they've been super playtested! Right?

It's FW stuff so probably not.

We have a view of turn order from the picture of the box set:

Probably Overwatch will be resolved in the Charge Passe, but the rule in the Dreadnought specifies to avoid questions in a future FAQ.

"But... and Overwatch kills, did that co-?"
"NO, we already answer that question in the rule because we know that you cabbage heads want to twist the rules for the smallest drop of advantage!"

Or maybe it is in the fight pase and you need to keep track of the units that have sucesfully charged and in what order to resolve the overwatch rolls in the fight pase.
I don't find many differences in the way you resolve it.

 Galas wrote:
Probably Overwatch will be resolved in the Charge Passe, but the rule in the Dreadnought specifies to avoid questions in a future FAQ.

"But... and Overwatch kills, did that co-?"
"NO, we already answer that question in the rule because we know that you cabbage heads want to twist the rules for the smallest drop of advantage!"

Or maybe it is in the fight pase and you need to keep track of the units that have sucesfully charged and in what order to resolve the overwatch rolls in the fight pase.
I don't find many differences in the way you resolve it.

Yea, it's fairly irrelevant. I was just hoping to throw wytch players a bone before we see everything. Oh well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

changemod wrote:

changemod wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:
Does anyone know the stats for the soulburner ribaudkin from 7th? I'm curious to know what is used to do before it became a mortal wound gun.

No such thing, it's a dialled up soulburner petard.

I'll look that up for you, but it's a smaller gun.

Soulburner Petard 24 inches: S5 AP5 ordnance 1 large blast rending.

Thanks guys. So this is the first occasion where a weapon was really pushed out of it's normal function.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Probably Overwatch will be resolved in the Charge Passe, but the rule in the Dreadnought specifies to avoid questions in a future FAQ.

"But... and Overwatch kills, did that co-?"
"NO, we already answer that question in the rule because we know that you cabbage heads want to twist the rules for the smallest drop of advantage!"

Or maybe it is in the fight pase and you need to keep track of the units that have sucesfully charged and in what order to resolve the overwatch rolls in the fight pase.
I don't find many differences in the way you resolve it.

Yea, it's fairly irrelevant. I was just hoping to throw wytch players a bone before we see everything. Oh well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

changemod wrote:

changemod wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:
Does anyone know the stats for the soulburner ribaudkin from 7th? I'm curious to know what is used to do before it became a mortal wound gun.

No such thing, it's a dialled up soulburner petard.

I'll look that up for you, but it's a smaller gun.

Soulburner Petard 24 inches: S5 AP5 ordnance 1 large blast rending.

Thanks guys. So this is the first occasion where a weapon was really pushed out of it's normal function.

Not really.. Orks have had their weapons altered repeatedly.

Warhams-77 wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I like that space marines have lieutenants now. I always felt like they were missing an important part in the chain of command. Had I had my way, the old space marine command squads would have had lieutenants instead of just sergeants.

SM Lieutenants had rules and models throughout 1st Edition and functioned basically as 1st officiers to the Commander They were independent characters with minor hero stats (champions, minor heroes and major heroes stat categories were used for most 40k factions). I am happy they are going to bring them back too.

In 1st edition, Lieutenants were the Company 2IC (and Lieutenant Commanders were the Chapter 2IC). However, the statline you chose (Champion, Minor Hero, Major Hero) had no correlation to the rank; you could have a Major Hero grizzled Lieutenant and a greenhorn Champion Captain.

"How many drops is this for you, Captain?"

"Uh, two. Including this one. "

The last time I remember seeing one was the Land Speeder gunner in the Studio Blood Angels army; a yellow shoulder pad was apparently part of the rank marking, which has led some to speculate that the guy on the cover of the 2nd edition 40k box set wasn't the Blood Angels 2nd company Captain, but the 3rd company Lieutenant.

skarsol wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Why would you think overwatch was in the fight phase?

Because of the phrasing on one of the Leviathan Dread's bespoke rules. But everything we have seen so far indicates that Overwatch is in the Charge phase, which means the Leviathan's rules are messed up.

But... but... they've been super playtested! Right?

This is from a Forgeworld book, so probably not. The GW units were extensively playtest, but Forgeworld sounds like they did everything themselves. And since Forgeworld is notorious for not knowing their own game well, here we are. It is also possible that they worked off an incomplete version of the rules.

Well, that is going to suck if they need to errata an already printed book.

I went ahead and asked the question on the facebook announcement.