40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Leth**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
skarsol wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
Albino Squirrel wrote:
Why would you think overwatch was in the fight phase?
Because of the phrasing on one of the Leviathan Dread's bespoke rules. But everything we have seen so far indicates that Overwatch is in the Charge phase, which means the Leviathan's rules are messed up.

But... but... they've been super playtested! Right?
This is from a Forgeworld book, so probably not. The GW units were extensively playtest, but Forgeworld sounds like they did everything themselves. And since Forgeworld is notorious for not knowing their own game well, here we are. It is also possible that they worked off an incomplete version of the rules.

If I had to guess it is there for completeness sake.

IF something allows them to cause overwatch wounds in the fight subphase somehow then the wording is there.

**pizzaguardian**

Youn wrote:
pizzaguardian wrote:
How would multiple overwatch work if it is done in fight phase. You just overwatch at every charger?

Actually, if Overwatch is in the fight phase. Then you overwatch a unit that piles in. You can keep overwatching units until you are engaged.

So, example
5 orcs charge a squad of marines
5 gretchin charge the same squad of marines
1 Nob also charges the same squad of marines

Orc player activates the 5 gretchin first and Overwatch occurs.
The marines Overwatch massacres the gretchin completely.
Orc player activates the 5 Orcs next and Overwatch occurs because the Marines are not engaged.
Marine's overwatch only kills 2 orcs.
3 Orcs pile into combat and swing.
Orc player now activates Nob and piles in. Because the Marines are engaged, the marines don't get to fire overwatch.

Nah, gw did say a good tactic to avoid overwatch was to pile in into other units.

An option would be that overwtach fire will be before even chargers, or the FW unit entry is wrong.

**Rippy**

Looks like no multipart Nurgle on release.

This is a rumour from Stay Frosty Studios (guy who used to work for GW as a painter)

**Galas**

Is a stupid move from a business perspective to put in preoder the multipart kits at the same time you sell the starter set with the monopose versions of those kits. One will canibalize the sales of the other. I'm pretty sure some weeks will past between the starter and the multipart plastic kits.

**MaxT**

Or, there's a special rule we've not seen yet that exists on a model (or aura) which allows a unit to overwatch vs a single unit it is engaging at the start of the fight phase. In that situation this rule covers that particular interaction.

Or forgeworld fethed up a bit.

**Daedalus81**

MLaw wrote:

Not really.. Orks have had their weapons altered repeatedly.

I just mean in terms of 8th. Lascannons still S9 and AP2, etc, etc.

**Galef**

Galas wrote:
Is a stupid move from a business perspective to put in preoder the multipart kits at the same time you sell the starter set with the monopose versions of those kits. One will canibalize the sales of the other. I'm pretty sure some weeks will past between the starter and the multipart plastic kits.

Agreed. But at least we can assume that the models in the starter set ARE the same models that will be in sold separately eventually.
Dark Vengeance is the last time I can remember GW making "special just for this set" models
All the sets since have included full kits, not snap-fits

**Galas**

Galef wrote:
Galas wrote:
Is a stupid move from a business perspective to put in preoder the multipart kits at the same time you sell the starter set with the monopose versions of those kits. One will canibalize the sales of the other. I'm pretty sure some weeks will past between the starter and the multipart plastic kits.

Agreed. But at least we can assume that the models in the starter set ARE the same models that will be in sold separately eventually.
Dark Vengeance is the last time I can remember GW making "special just for this set" models
All the sets since have included full kits, not snap-fits

I don't think so. The AoS starter for example, the sprues of Liberators, Retributors, Prosecutors, Bloodwarriors and Bloodreavers all are different in the multipart box than in the starter. If that is what you are talking about. If not, ignore me

And some kits in the starter aren't availible to buy separately: The Bloodstoker, the Mighty Lord of Khorne, the Khorgorath, etc...

**gnome_idea_what**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Albino Squirrel wrote:
Why would you think overwatch was in the fight phase?
Because of the phrasing on one of the Leviathan Dread's bespoke rules. But everything we have seen so far indicates that Overwatch is in the Charge phase, which means the Leviathan's rules are messed up.

That's encouraging, they used a stat line with defective rules to showcase FW stuff. Either this is some kind of subtle avant-garde dig at FW's past balancing issues, or there's not a lot of oversight on what gets into A) FW model rules, and/or B) showcase articles.

**GoatboyBeta**

Galef wrote:
Galas wrote:
Is a stupid move from a business perspective to put in preoder the multipart kits at the same time you sell the starter set with the monopose versions of those kits. One will canibalize the sales of the other. I'm pretty sure some weeks will past between the starter and the multipart plastic kits.

Agreed. But at least we can assume that the models in the starter set ARE the same models that will be in sold separately eventually.
Dark Vengeance is the last time I can remember GW making "special just for this set" models
All the sets since have included full kits, not snap-fits

The AoS starter box is probably a better comparison. All the units and characters are made up of mono pose sculpts that are "special just for this set" models. When the units were later released separately they were multi part kits with more options than the starter set versions.

Galas wrote:

And some kits in the starter aren't availible to buy separately: The Bloodstoker, the Mighty Lord of Khorne, the Khorgorath, etc...

Gah I'm still waiting for a non starter Lord Relictor. I hope GW don't pull something like that with the Dark Imperium box.

**ClockworkZion**

Went back to yesterday's Faction Focus Death Guard Article to start with since it seemed like they'd taken off for a tea break. So we'll pick up from there before today's FW one:

Faction Focus Death Guard
Q: Can GW please make sure there are enough copies of the new box available for pre-order so we don't get a repeat of what happened with Shadow War Armageddon?
A: Sure thing Keith; we got this.

Q: If I play a death guard army does it have to be all plague marines? Can I still as now have generic chaos marines and havocs which have death guard rules? I would be very very disappointed if not
A: O course - you can mix these guys in with any number of other Chaos models.

Q: My poor bank account is going to be taking a battering. Absolutely phenomenal models, plus the rules look fantastic.
A: Our apologies to your Bank Manager in advance...

Q: Can you confirm is the rule book in the boxed set is the same as the stand-alone rule book you are also selling?
A: We can indeed confirm that! Have a read of this article - it explains everything. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/23/warhammer-40000-launch-date-announced-may22gw-homepage-post-1/

Q: I take it Duncan will be showing everyone how to paint these?
A: Indeed he will. He's all over it like a fly on...errr... a Death Guard.

Q: Can they take dreadnoughts still? I have the Forgeworld one and the plastic kit.
A: All will be revealed!

Q: This article talks about Poxwalkers and Plague Marines, as the only available troop choices. I really hope that standard CSMs can be still used as troops. After all, the simple marines should be the backbone of any CSM army, and the Death Guard, while the poster-villains of the new edition, is still a CSM legion.
A: You can indeed use Death Guard with other Chaos models, all is good!

Q: Would you guys at the Warhammer Community Team please tell us Dark Angels players about Gets Hot. A lot of our units have twin linked plasma, and given the current nature of gets hot combined with the new twin linked rules, we would simply be killing ourselves twice as often. I would hate to have a lot of my models simply sit on my shelf and collect dust out of sheer uselessness in the new edition
A: Hey Justin - we haven't revealed too much about the plasma guns yet; all to come!

Q: A plague walkers kills a necron warrior and it becomes an infected zombie. Logic.
A: Necrons are pretty susceptible to rust...

Q: You should like have a faction focus on genestealer cult
A: Ok! We'll do just that!

Forge World Datasheet Teaser
Q: Hey Warhammer 40,000. Can you just verify that str is not capped at 10, meaning this bad boy will be hitting at str 16.
A: Have a looks at this article where it says "With the stats going above 10, the system is now an increasing scale,".... https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/25/warhammer-40000-unit-profiles/

Q: Any news from Forge world about Dark Mechanicum being bought into 40k as this mysterious new faction? Come on GW hype team I need to know.
A: No news on these guys right now, but if any surfaces,we will let you know on the Forge World page.

Q: Hot damn, nice big dredd... My question is this for you gw, when the new Dex's come out will they have both the forge world beasties and gw beasties in them for my nids? Also a massive thanks for being an awesome company!
A: The standard codex books are unlikely to cover Forge World models as they are not part of the Citadel range.

Q: So any hints you can give regarding whether warhound, reaver and warlord titans will be in the new indexes? I've got a titan maniple I'd rather not leave sitting on the shelf.
A: No word yet; as soon as we know, we will divulge all here!

Q: Will there be a faction focus on Eldar Corsairs? I know what most of my armies are going to be like in 8th now, but Corsairs are my favourite.
A: Not specifically on Corsairs - that would be super-specific. But they will be getting covered with rules in the new edition.

Q: Any chance the FW books or datasheets will be available digitally?
A: We are looking to make that happen, but no word right now

Q: QUESTION! Since we were told that characteristics such as Strength, Wounds etc, don't cap out at 10 anymore... does that mean that a Leviathan gets S16 on his siege Claws??????
A: Sounds like it! 8 x 2 is 16 after all!

Q: So are the new IA index books going to be sold through Forge World or are they going to be a standard GW product? Not a huge deal but it does take some consideration for those of us outside the UK.
A: Have a read of the article below; the books from Forge World will be being sold by Forge World. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/23/forge-world-and-the-new-warhammer-40000/

Q: So stats no longer hardcap at 10, right? So his drills/claws are at S16?
A: Have a read of this article, especially where it says "With the stats going above 10, the system is now an increasing scale,"... https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/25/warhammer-40000-unit-profiles/

Q: I got one question.
Do we have rules for the Repressor.
A: The first two books out cover the Space Marines and Chaos; the Repressor is in neither of those. Check out this article to see what's coming: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/23/forge-world-and-the-new-warhammer-40000/

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Galas wrote:
Galef wrote:
Galas wrote:
Is a stupid move from a business perspective to put in preoder the multipart kits at the same time you sell the starter set with the monopose versions of those kits. One will canibalize the sales of the other. I'm pretty sure some weeks will past between the starter and the multipart plastic kits.

Agreed. But at least we can assume that the models in the starter set ARE the same models that will be in sold separately eventually.
Dark Vengeance is the last time I can remember GW making "special just for this set" models
All the sets since have included full kits, not snap-fits

I don't think so. The AoS starter for example, the sprues of Liberators, Retributors, Prosecutors, Bloodwarriors and Bloodreavers all are different in the multipart box than in the starter. If that is what you are talking about. If not, ignore me
And some kits in the starter aren't availible to buy separately: The Bloodstoker, the Mighty Lord of Khorne, the Khorgorath, etc...

I can see the unique characters for the Death Guard being starter set only.

**Plumbumbarum**

Pete Melvin wrote:
MaxT wrote:

No! As peeps on this forum has said, you cannot as soon as Primaris Marines are released! GW will ban you! They will come round your house and smash them! And gak on your bed while they're there!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! *Vader pose*

The beauty of miniatures is how those small things can hold all that nuance, detail, precision.

Making said small things slightly bigger is not the trick, sth to be applauded etc.

How GW should have done it was, make new marines with significantly better proportions and new armour in the same scale as the rest of the sm range, then release new, smaller IG models (and other standard humans) as their range is in need of an overhaul anyway. No moronic ultra ultra fluff, no stupidly huge captains and some actual skill in making smaller but better/ more detailed miniatures. All would sell great.

But no, GW with a subtlety of McDonalds on double BigMac goes for maximum profit and release the bigger crap, actualy making the really awesome big crap smaller in comparision, ofc only until they release even bigger big crap for everybody to replace the old. Making miniatures bigger doesn't make them better, only more toyish and GW standard marine was big enough for sure.

Ofc the proper reaction from customers should be a big FU but no, it's big applaud and dismissal of the critics. Congratulations, is it because they "listen" now (to the wrong people sadly)? Call you "gang", like they were still young punks opposing Maggie and not an old, corporate behemot in the world of tt games? Is it the awesomness of having a marine a head taller than the other marine? The prospect of buying an entire range again so you have a new army of exactly the same but slightly bigger and almost properly proportioned? Or maybe it's just about owning that big, like really big, new, serious SyFy captain with the same silly, toyish sword of old? Not sure here really.

**Crimson**

Galas wrote:
Is a stupid move from a business perspective to put in preoder the multipart kits at the same time you sell the starter set with the monopose versions of those kits. One will canibalize the sales of the other. I'm pretty sure some weeks will past between the starter and the multipart plastic kits.

I don't know; I'd prefer to buy the multiparts together with the starter so I could kitbash them freely.

**GoatboyBeta**

If only the internet had been around when GW replaced the RTB01 box with mk7, or when Marines got there T3 upgraded to T4

**AndrewGPaul**

Just because someone likes something you don't doesn't make them wrong or foolish. Who are you to decide what our reaction "should" be?

You can replace all your existing Marines with Primaris Marines if you like, and I'm sure that going forward, there'll be more Primaris models and fewer new "old" Marines models, but who cares? If you don't like the new ones, don't buy 'em. I certainly won't be, since the Astral Claws didn't have any in 907.M41.

This is the best way of introducing Marine models that "properly" tower above the normal humans. If they simply replaced the existing Marines or Imperial Guard with new ones, then all of us with existing armies would be rightfully annoyed. This way, it's entirely down to individual players as to what to do.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
If only the internet had been around when GW replaced the RTB01 box with mk7 ...

Actually, that situation mirrors what's happening now. The mark 7 models were released in 1990, and all new Marines moving forward were made in that style. However, the old RTB01 plastics and the metal models to go with them were still available for years afterwards, so everyone could simply buy what they wanted.

**EnTyme**

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Galef wrote:
Galas wrote:
Is a stupid move from a business perspective to put in preoder the multipart kits at the same time you sell the starter set with the monopose versions of those kits. One will canibalize the sales of the other. I'm pretty sure some weeks will past between the starter and the multipart plastic kits.

Agreed. But at least we can assume that the models in the starter set ARE the same models that will be in sold separately eventually.
Dark Vengeance is the last time I can remember GW making "special just for this set" models
All the sets since have included full kits, not snap-fits

The AoS starter box is probably a better comparison. All the units and characters are made up of mono pose sculpts that are "special just for this set" models. When the units were later released separately they were multi part kits with more options than the starter set versions.

Galas wrote:

And some kits in the starter aren't availible to buy separately: The Bloodstoker, the Mighty Lord of Khorne, the Khorgorath, etc...

Gah I'm still waiting for a non starter Lord Relictor. I hope GW don't pull something like that with the Dark Imperium box.

Yeah. GW missed out on a lot of money used to purchase Bloodsecrators off eBay.

**ClockworkZion**

Well this may be the best paint scheme I've seen for the new Primaris Marines:

Spoiler:

That said, despite the new Primaris guys, I haven't seen much that rubs me the wrong way for the new edition, save for FW's grav rules.

PLEASE tell me that regular Grav won't drop 5 wounds on Vehicle, Monstrous and Titanic keyword models.

**JohnnyHell**

Galas wrote:
Galef wrote:
Galas wrote:
Is a stupid move from a business perspective to put in preoder the multipart kits at the same time you sell the starter set with the monopose versions of those kits. One will canibalize the sales of the other. I'm pretty sure some weeks will past between the starter and the multipart plastic kits.

Agreed. But at least we can assume that the models in the starter set ARE the same models that will be in sold separately eventually.
Dark Vengeance is the last time I can remember GW making "special just for this set" models
All the sets since have included full kits, not snap-fits

I don't think so. The AoS starter for example, the sprues of Liberators, Retributors, Prosecutors, Bloodwarriors and Bloodreavers all are different in the multipart box than in the starter. If that is what you are talking about. If not, ignore me
And some kits in the starter aren't availible to buy separately: The Bloodstoker, the Mighty Lord of Khorne, the Khorgorath, etc...

Absolutely. See also Deathwatch:Overkill. Jeez they've even said the box set minis are single pose. So assuming otherwise isn't wise. .

**Future War Cultist**

That marine is awesome!

What chapter is that?

@ AndrewGPaul

Well said.

**Wulfey**

Started boxes like this have been mono-pose to reduce costs. Less options, more models per dollar. No plastic left on the sprue. I know what I am getting when I get this box.

**Plumbumbarum**

GoatboyBeta wrote:
If only the internet had been around when GW replaced the RTB01 box with mk7, or when Marines got there T3 upgraded to T4

Ok so it happened already, must be good. A head taller every 10 years so our grandchildren can play with straight action man.

**ClockworkZion**

AndrewGPaul wrote:
Just because someone likes something you don't doesn't make them wrong or foolish. Who are you to decide what our reaction "should" be?

You can replace all your existing Marines with Primaris Marines if you like, and I'm sure that going forward, there'll be more Primaris models and fewer new "old" Marines models, but who cares? If you don't like the new ones, don't buy 'em. I certainly won't be, since the Astral Claws didn't have any in 907.M41.

This is the best way of introducing Marine models that "properly" tower above the normal humans. If they simply replaced the existing Marines or Imperial Guard with new ones, then all of us with existing armies would be rightfully annoyed. This way, it's entirely down to individual players as to what to do.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
If only the internet had been around when GW replaced the RTB01 box with mk7 ...

Actually, that situation mirrors what's happening now. The mark 7 models were released in 1990, and all new Marines moving forward were made in that style. However, the old RTB01 plastics and the metal models to go with them were still available for years afterwards, so everyone could simply buy what they wanted.

Considering just how many different Marine model kits there are I'm actually glad they're doing a slow swap. Otherwise we'd need two solid years of nothing but Primaris updates to get caught up.

**KommissarKiln**

andysonic1 wrote:
Justyn wrote:

Khorne Berserkers pile in twice and fight twice each Fight Phase.

I think they may have decided the way to balance everything was to make everything overpowered.

Currently I'm still iffy on 8th because everything has super AWESOME!!!! rules. Emphasis by GW.
I feel like they took things that were clearly overpowered and brought them down, then took everything else and brought it up. They've set a new level for the playing field, and it is covered in blood.

I honestly don't think I'm too upset about that, assuming the balancing is carried out sufficiently, and no single codex is notoriously strong or weak. Plus, they promised fast games, right?

**Desubot**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Well this may be the best paint scheme I've seen for the new Primaris Marines:

Spoiler:

That said, despite the new Primaris guys, I haven't seen much that rubs me the wrong way for the new edition, save for FW's grav rules.

PLEASE tell me that regular Grav won't drop 5 wounds on Vehicle, Monstrous and Titanic keyword models.

im guessing if grav works like that, it will be high armor reduction and maybe 1 damage for normal dudes, 2-3 for keyword models.

a few of those wont be tooo bad. and will be worse for just regular dudes if the rate of fire is kept in check.

something more consistent than a melta but no potential for mass destruction.

**ClockworkZion**

Future War Cultist wrote:
That marine is awesome!

What chapter is that?

@ AndrewGPaul

Well said.

The only chapter that goes to Infinity and Beyond I guess?

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

krazynadechukr wrote:
changemod wrote:
Yeah again, it's basically a conspiracy theory at this point that space marines might be replaced.

Space Marines (codex/stats/points) are not being replaced, per GW statement.

What (clever) thing they did was to make new ("primaris") space marine models & you can use those new models as your regular space marine models and use the regular space marine stats and have your good old SM army still.

Their hopes are you buy the models. You can also have a full primaris army or implement primaris units into your army. GW already said Primaris are more costly in points, hence, a full primaris army will be 30-40 models tops. But, who doesn't want the newest shiniest true-scaliest models? Who wouldn't want to make a full Space Marine Army with these new beasties? That's GWs clever plan! So in a way, they might well phase out space marine models - but not the space marine codex/points/etc - but the models may have seen the end coming.

Like the new space marine models came out and the rogue trader era marine models faded off into history...

God I hope not. I'm not the only one who thinks these new Primaris are fugly? Especially those wacky jump pack troops with dual machineguns.

**ClockworkZion**

Desubot wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Well this may be the best paint scheme I've seen for the new Primaris Marines:

Spoiler:

That said, despite the new Primaris guys, I haven't seen much that rubs me the wrong way for the new edition, save for FW's grav rules.

PLEASE tell me that regular Grav won't drop 5 wounds on Vehicle, Monstrous and Titanic keyword models.

im guessing if grav works like that, it will be high armor reduction and maybe 1 damage for normal dudes, 2-3 for keyword models.

a few of those wont be tooo bad. and will be worse for just regular dudes if the rate of fire is kept in check.

something more consistent than a melta but no potential for mass destruction.

As long as the keyword doesn't include "Character" that'd be acceptable. I mean then it wouldn't be a Warlord killer for most armies. Daemons and Nids would need some love there.

**Plumbumbarum**

AndrewGPaul wrote:
Just because someone likes something you don't doesn't make them wrong or foolish. Who are you to decide what our reaction "should" be?

If you actualy read my post, you could have seen the posts I quote, where it's two young gentlemen trying to make a fool of an other poster concerned about primaris marines. My post is just adequate.

**Future War Cultist**

ClockworkZion wrote:
The only chapter that goes to Infinity and Beyond I guess?

How? How did I not realize that that was Buzz Lightyear? I must be blind...or stupid...or both.

**ClockworkZion**

Future War Cultist wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
The only chapter that goes to Infinity and Beyond I guess?

How? How did I not realize that that was Buzz Lightyear? I must be blind...or stupid...or both.

Maybe you just need more coffee.