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 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Stonebeard wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:

The Galil!!

We've had some inquiries on shipping dates already, I myself cant wait.

IWI quality, 5.56 compatible, modern ergos and AK reliability in a dead sexy package. What's not to love about it? I'm just hoping the 23 stays below $1500.

I don't know if these complaints extend to the ACE, but guys who were issued Galils (mostly reservist tankers) used to complain about the safety (it's goofy...check it out closely) and the sights, which don't necessarily return to zero when you return the top cover. It also uses AK-style magazines which may be a little slower to reload than AR-style magazines.

I can understand how the safety might be a bit wonky. Was there issue accidentally flipping it? I can imagine how you might do that if your thumb were to ride high. Sights, though.... isn't that just a general issue with a railed top cover? I mean they're always going to have some issue with that just because an AK style top cover isn't really fixed like the upper on an M4 (at least I don't think it is) so you're always going to have some variance if you stick a sight on that. I Imagine it would be find if you were running and RDS, but I would think the work around for a LR sight would be to mount it above the barrel.

Ace can run both, and does, depending on what it's chambered in. Accepts m14 style mags, AR-15 or 7.62x39. If I were going to pick one up I'd definitely shoot for the 5.56. Grandpap has an ungodly amount of rounds berried somewhere on the farm.

The original Galil safety is kinda awkward, it basically takes the big Kalashnikov selector and clips a linkage onto it connecting to a thumb safety.

The new Galil ACE is significantly different with an entirely different receiver and safety.

 Stonebeard wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Stonebeard wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:

The Galil!!

We've had some inquiries on shipping dates already, I myself cant wait.

IWI quality, 5.56 compatible, modern ergos and AK reliability in a dead sexy package. What's not to love about it? I'm just hoping the 23 stays below $1500.

I don't know if these complaints extend to the ACE, but guys who were issued Galils (mostly reservist tankers) used to complain about the safety (it's goofy...check it out closely) and the sights, which don't necessarily return to zero when you return the top cover. It also uses AK-style magazines which may be a little slower to reload than AR-style magazines.

I can understand how the safety might be a bit wonky. Was there issue accidentally flipping it? I can imagine how you might do that if your thumb were to ride high. Sights, though.... isn't that just a general issue with a railed top cover? I mean they're always going to have some issue with that just because an AK style top cover isn't really fixed like the upper on an M4 (at least I don't think it is) so you're always going to have some variance if you stick a sight on that. I Imagine it would be find if you were running and RDS, but I would think the work around for a LR sight would be to mount it above the barrel.

Ace can run both, and does, depending on what it's chambered in. Accepts m14 style mags, AR-15 or 7.62x39. If I were going to pick one up I'd definitely shoot for the 5.56. Grandpap has an ungodly amount of rounds berried somewhere on the farm.

Galil safety looks like this:



The reason for rezeroing the sights after opening the top cover has to do with where the sights (or in the ACE's case, a scope) would be located. That top cover doesn't reseat the same way every time, the argument goes. That might just be an army myth...would have to test it.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
The reason for rezeroing the sights after opening the top cover has to do with where the sights (or in the ACE's case, a scope) would be located. That top cover doesn't reseat the same way every time, the argument goes. That might just be an army myth...would have to test it.

Sounds like a pretty serious design flaw. I mean, I guess it's okay when you're out plinking, but in an actual defense scenario when are you going to get the chance to rezero? Personally, I'd like to know exactly where my bullets are going to land when gack gets crazy.

 Breotan wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
The reason for rezeroing the sights after opening the top cover has to do with where the sights (or in the ACE's case, a scope) would be located. That top cover doesn't reseat the same way every time, the argument goes. That might just be an army myth...would have to test it.

Sounds like a pretty serious design flaw. I mean, I guess it's okay when you're out plinking, but in an actual defense scenario when are you going to get the chance to rezero? Personally, I'd like to know exactly where my bullets are going to land when gack gets crazy.

That seems to be the criticism with them. Clean gun --> rezero and now it's dirty again. Again, this might just be a myth but it seems reasonable.

On the flip side, it's unlikely to be off by too much...probably still good enough for up to 100 meters or so. It's pretty much the only way to get an acceptable sight radius on an AK, so maybe they figured the return to zero issue causes fewer problems than just having crap sights like a normal AK. But there's probably a reason the IDF is (or has completed) phasing out the Galil.

The galil is nice, but the re zero is a real issue,

this is why I really like the CSA style rifles,


statnag compatable,


good safety, modern furniture, acessories ect

basically a milled AK with some different internals (looks a lot like an AK otherwise)


but the rear sight is on the top just over the mag well as opposed to on the reciever cover, so no re zero ing.

not that it matters in US, but up here, its also non restricted so we can hunt with it, despite it being functionally IDENTICAL to evil baby killers like AR-15s and a plethora of other semi auto mag fed 5.56 rifles.

Can't see the ACE having similar issues, considering the monolithic top rail; even if the top cover still has issues, which I'm not sure it does, fixing it would just be a matter shoving optic forward of the cover.

New safety doesn't look all that bad, to be honest.


Might be wonky if you have hands like watermelons, but I don't see that being an issue for any normal human being.

That safety still sucks ass.

The AR15 safety is worlds better, and it's a 90 degree safety not 180 degrees like the ACE. In fact, most new designs use a 45 degree safety because it's that much easier to use.

I guess they expect you to use this safety (coupled with the one between your ears):

Maybe, though I would argue that, if you have issues with toggling that safety, you probably shouldn't be around firearms to begin with. Honestly, it's no more difficult minipulate than most rifle safeties.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
That safety still sucks ass.

The AR15 safety is worlds better, and it's a 90 degree safety not 180 degrees like the ACE. In fact, most new designs use a 45 degree safety because it's that much easier to use.

I guess they expect you to use this safety (coupled with the one between your ears):

yeah.... safeties that are on the dominant hand inside carry side like that, that are simple push/pull in a line actions tend to go from safe to unsafe without it being noticed, and its a lot harder to just touch it with your thumb to see if its on or not.

where as things like the AR, CSA's ect have a switch where circular motion is required to move the switch, so its a bit harder to pull off by accident, and a quick touch confirms its still on.

Id totally still buy a new GALIL if they werent classified as super dooper baby kllers up here, cant even get em for range only weapons. IWI makes some fine stuff just to taunt me sometimes I swear!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stonebeard wrote:
Maybe, though I would argue that, if you have issues with toggling that safety, you probably shouldn't be around firearms to begin with. Honestly, it's no more difficult minipulate than most rifle safeties.

thats the thing, its not that its so hard to manipulate, its that its too easy for that type of safety action to get caught.


my first thought seeing that gun is `man that safety is gonna rub my nipple raw and disengage`:

 Stonebeard wrote:
Maybe, though I would argue that, if you have issues with toggling that safety, you probably shouldn't be around firearms to begin with. Honestly, it's no more difficult minipulate than most rifle safeties.

The question isn't whether or not you can operate it. It's about how fast / easily you can operate it. If "can I use it?" were a decent criterion, we'd still be using bolt action rifles.

Then my suggestion would be to either change how you grip the weapon or to not try to grind your rifle.


Edit: That was aimed at Easy.

@Nuggz,
I can't see the difference between the time required to disengaging that safety and the time required to disengage an AR style safety being anything more than negligible. Certainly not to such a degree that it would matter to the average consumer.

 Stonebeard wrote:
Then my suggestion would be to either change how you grip the weapon or to not try to grind your rifle.


Edit: That was aimed at Easy.

@Nuggz,
I can't see the difference between the time required to disengaging that safety and the time required to disengage an AR style safety being anything more than negligible. Certainly not to such a degree that it would matter to the average consumer.

Gotcha...it's tough to illustrate but most firearms instructors teach on-target-safety-off, off-target-safety-on so you're switching back and forth between safe and semi. Engaging that safety is relatively difficult as you'd need to push your thumb forward, hook it up, and pull it directly back 180 degrees. That's a lot more difficult than flipping it 90 degrees, and way more difficult than flipping it only 45 degrees.

The Galil safety (and the AR15 90 degree safety actually) don't allow you to engage the safety without shifting your grip. That's why most new firearms use a 45 degree safety.

SCAR safety:



AR15 safety:



Review of why the shorter the throw, the better the safety:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?82822-BAD-ASS-45*-Ambi-Safety

 Stonebeard wrote:
Then my suggestion would be to either change how you grip the weapon or to not try to grind your rifle.


Edit: That was aimed at Easy.

@Nuggz,
I can't see the difference between the time required to disengaging that safety and the time required to disengage an AR style safety being anything more than negligible. Certainly not to such a degree that it would matter to the average consumer.

I dont think you understand what I mean,

im not talking about it in my hands, in my hands that safety is fine, aside from being offering less tactile feedback as to what mode you are actually in.

when its on a sling, the whole idea is that you dont always need to be holding the rifle, so you let the rifle go. When you do this with a gun with that kind of safety, its much easier for it to catch and disengage. In addition to this, its not even flush with the main body of the rifle, so is more prone to snagging.

This is why a lot of rifles are designed with that in mind and put the safety on the right hand side.

This is why I say the safety on that galil isnt ideal, AR-15s are a bit better with the radial switch, but I find the CSA position to be ideal as its on the outside when you carry in addition to being more tactile in nature and less snag prone.

the CSA also allows you to operate the safety from a firing grip, (I can do this with the ar-15 too, but only because I installed an ambi selector on the right side) by simply using the right trigger finger to flick it back and forth.

with the galils style you have to kind of take your hand off to go back and forth.



dont get me wrong though, I like the galil for many reasons.


*edit nuggz kinda ninjad me lol

Best Safety

Is fire selector and dustcover both comrade!

@ Easy,

Nah, man, I got what you meant. It's what I was talking about when I mentioned grinding the gun. It's not an issue with me, and probably most civs, because I wouldn't be carrying the gun for long periods of time nor will most Americans, I would wager. That being said, if you want to run it with a sling, I could see how it might be an issue.

As far as minipulating the safety goes, I doubt I'd personally have to move my hand much to disengage it. Then again, I have obserdly long fingers, so I could probably push it with my thumb fairly easily.

To clarify, though, I'm only talking about the safety from the perspective of the civilians market, and with that in mind, I don't see the issue with the rifle. I'm an neither saying that the ACE safety is best nor am I saying that it is without any fault. All I am saying is that the ACE safety is not so bad as to be a particular hindrance for my purposes, and that I do not feel I would have issue switching it on or off.

@ Nuggz,
I was not aware that they taught that, thank you. Suppose it might come in handy at some point. Still, I don't see much issue, though that might be because my hands are shaped fairly oddly.

Oh yeah, dont get me wrong its no big deal.

its only an issue to the picky few who are trying to shave a few pts off their time in matches.

Its probably not even a 2nd thought to most though, Id still buy one too!

Just a quick update on the safety:

While it still has the firing selector we discussed, it also has a small, AK style selector on the right side of the weapon. Whether or not that's actually better, I have no clue (though it seems it would be), but it's there. I'm not sure if anyone actually gives a damn, but there it is. Just trying to correct any incorrect info I put out there.

I went to the fun store the other day. Ended up playing with some Sig Sauer pistols. I'd like to support them due to their commitment to US civilian gun owners and general willingness to flip the bird to the ATF. If they pursue legal action against the ATF for their ridiculous Sig Brace ruling, then I'm in for 2 pistols.

Currently the 2 I'm looking at are the P320 (for carry) and the P229 Elite Stainless as a dress pistol. The P320 is modular, with the trigger pack being the actual "firearm." The rest of the weapon is just parts, so you can buy one trigger pack (which is your 'pistol') then swap out for a compact or subcompact. Very cool!

The P229 looks hands down beautiful, and I don't have a "nickel plated sissy pistol" (a la Tommy Lee Jones in Fugitive) that I can wear with dressy clothing open carry.

Sig 320:



P229 Elite Stainless:

 easysauce wrote:
The galil is nice, but the re zero is a real issue,

this is why I really like the CSA style rifles,


statnag compatable,


good safety, modern furniture, acessories ect

basically a milled AK with some different internals (looks a lot like an AK otherwise)


but the rear sight is on the top just over the mag well as opposed to on the reciever cover, so no re zero ing.

not that it matters in US, but up here, its also non restricted so we can hunt with it, despite it being functionally IDENTICAL to evil baby killers like AR-15s and a plethora of other semi auto mag fed 5.56 rifles.

I would like one of those. Looks BA.

P229 all the way. Damn sexy pistol.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
I went to the fun store the other day. Ended up playing with some Sig Sauer pistols. I'd like to support them due to their commitment to US civilian gun owners and general willingness to flip the bird to the ATF. If they pursue legal action against the ATF for their ridiculous Sig Brace ruling, then I'm in for 2 pistols.

Currently the 2 I'm looking at are the P320 (for carry) and the P229 Elite Stainless as a dress pistol. The P320 is modular, with the trigger pack being the actual "firearm." The rest of the weapon is just parts, so you can buy one trigger pack (which is your 'pistol') then swap out for a compact or subcompact. Very cool!

The P229 looks hands down beautiful, and I don't have a "nickel plated sissy pistol" (a la Tommy Lee Jones in Fugitive) that I can wear with dressy clothing open carry.

Sig 320:



P229 Elite Stainless:

Never shot the 320 - but the p229 has got to be the nicest firearm I have ever had the privileged to shoot. It's a little fat to carry but if that doesn't bother you it will most likely end up being your favorite pistol and it's dang pretty too.

I dont know why, I love sig rifles but hate their pistols for some reason.

totally a personal thing, I cant really come up with a good reason other then the pistols just dont fit well in my hands.

they sure look good, and the company has a reputation for a very good reason.

 easysauce wrote:
I dont know why, I love sig rifles but hate their pistols for some reason.

totally a personal thing, I cant really come up with a good reason other then the pistols just dont fit well in my hands.

they sure look good, and the company has a reputation for a very good reason.

I am the same way with glocks. It's not the plastics ether cause I really like the feel of the walther ppq. I love the feel of sigs though.

Lots of people don't like the fit of Glocks. Others think they look like bricks.

yeah... Id take the sig over a glock any day of the week.

Love me some polymers, but glocks always feel like this to me

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
That safety still sucks ass.

The AR15 safety is worlds better, and it's a 90 degree safety not 180 degrees like the ACE. In fact, most new designs use a 45 degree safety because it's that much easier to use.

I guess they expect you to use this safety (coupled with the one between your ears):

Not that it matters much but the galil is FUGLY.

 easysauce wrote:
yeah... Id take the sig over a glock any day of the week.

Love me some polymers, but glocks always feel like this to me

I have nothing against Glocks. Glock fanbois are a different story.

My preference of M&P vs. Glock:
*Stainless barrel and parts.
*Made in USA.
thats it. Nearly everything else is modifiable for either of them. If I had to carry it as a duty piece without modification at the same price point I'd get an XDM.

In defence of glocks, they are made in the U.S.. They're still ugly PoS with ergonomics like, wel... a brick, but they're American made ugly PoS with brick-nomics.

Do they actually have made in the USA on them? When I bought my first M&P they were stil aryan uber gunz.

I actually prefer their grip angle, but stainless when available is almost a deal breaker for me due to the climate. Else there's not a lot of dfference.