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The Genestealer cults are ok and a wonderful 1st turn threat now that they can infiltrate normally with allied Tyranids. They would be nearly broken as battle brothers (not as broken as grav spam/ superfriends/ free transports/ and wolfin which are all still legal) but they are fun to play with and I am looking forward to the day they finally come out with an actual codex for them.

The rules for the Tyrannocyte were always written how they have been FAQ'd, I don't see how its a nerf really.

Arkengate wrote:
I guess what I'm asking is, Given i can do the 5 FHT thingy, thats fine.

Of those, are there specific uses that something is used for? Like, would there be a reason to bring a 2nd Tervigon? or add a Tyrannofex to my army? (I have one, buying the gun still!)

What exactly is the role of Exocrine, Haruspex? We have Dimachaeron, so where does Haruspex fit in? Would I ever feasibly field one? Exocrine seems to be long ranged tank killer, though. Is that Living Artillery worth actually using?

Im glad to hear shrikes are good :-)


Lastly; Have GW stated anything about Genestealers and fixing their ally issue? I know the FAQ isnt final yet, and it seems there was an uproar about it a while ago (Before i started)

In competitive play, anything besides max flying Tyrants and Tyrant support is an error. The exact Flyrant support you want to use might vary depending on point level and the details of the tournament, but that's about it. Flyrant support options boil down to Venomthropes vs Malanthrope, Mucolids vs Rippers, Mawloc vs no Mawloc. I've used or seen used Hive Crones, drop devourer gaunts, and drop Tervigon, but feel all of them are inferior to dedicating the points to more Flyrants. I used a pair of min Genestealer squads at an ITC event this weekend, and they worked well for the ITC format.

In casual games you can make almost all of the options in the book work. The only things I won't run are massed Genestealers and Pyrovores.

To answer your questions: The Exocrine puts ranged AP 2 wounds on Marines and Terminators, something that is otherwise lacking in our codex. Exocrines, stranglethorn Warriors, and Biovores can be used to make lists that put out a surprising amount of ranged firepower. Tervigon spam builds can be fun, and the Endless Swarm formation can make them close to competitive, but you end up having so many models that you have time pressure in tournament play. Haruspex can be podded in to provide a backfield cc threat. The cover bonus it gets might keep it alive long enough to charge something.

Tyrannofex's have similar use: give it electroshock grubs and acid spray, put it in a pod, and deep strike it behind something squishy in the backfield. The long range gun on the Tryannofex is a trap: it looks like it should be good, but BS3 and AP4 make it so you never actually kill anything important with it. The only time I use it is when I decide to do a long range nid shooting army for lol's, in which case I'll run a pair of them and a Biovore squad.

I am on the fence about Shrikes. I have ran them with rending, fleet and scything talons as basically Raveners with synapse, but they tend to outrun Venomthrope support and are really frail. If you upgrade them any further than that you end up with the Warrior problem: 50-80 point models that die like flies to S8. The Tyrant + Gargoyle formation combined with Shrikes could be fun as a theme army.

Timeshadow wrote:
The Genestealer cults are ok and a wonderful 1st turn threat now that they can infiltrate normally with allied Tyranids. They would be nearly broken as battle brothers (not as broken as grav spam/ superfriends/ free transports/ and wolfin which are all still legal) but they are fun to play with and I am looking forward to the day they finally come out with an actual codex for them.

I'm not sure how they would be broken. Only thing the battle brothers gives them is the ability to use psychic powers and join units. So they can make a unit of Nids invisible, and the IC's could joing Nid units. (You could also have a prime join a cult unit, but there is no real benefit to it). I can't think of any Nid unit that compares to a Death Star with Invisability. Nor do I see how giving a unit stealth by joining the patriarch to it is a game changer either. I hear this "broken" argument all the time, but I just don't see it. Invisability could be considered broken, but it's less so on Nids than any other army that gets it.

I played the 2000 point ITC tournament at War Games Con in Austin Texas last weekend. I ran my Flyrants, taking 12th place in a field of ~80 with 3 wins, 1 loss, and 1 tie.

My build was 7 flying Tyrants with double devourers and egrubs, 2 Venomthropes, 5 Mucolid Spores, a 5x Genestealer brood, and a 6x Genestealer brood. I would have preferred to run 6 Mucolid's and 2 5x Genestealers, but other commitments prevented me from getting the 6th Mucolid finished. As it was I ended up having a Tyrant that was missing most of the detail work, which was a bit of an embarrassment.

I ran the Genestealers because I wanted to use infiltrate to better keep drop pods of midfield objectives and to increase my standoff distance vs grav bikers. They ended up being very useful, and I've become convinced that for ITC style tournaments the 'stealers are the best option to fill out a flyrant build.

Game 1
Win vs Marines + 1 Imperial Knight

This guy had a rather casual list, with a lot of preds and marines in rhinos. The only real threat to my Tyrants was a squad of lascanon devastators. The devastators shrugged off two Tyrant's worth of fire first turn with only one casualty, but on second turn they died, the Knight died, the Knight explosion took out enough of his warlords squad to force a leadership check, the warlord ran off the board, and after that it was mostly a matter of not making mistakes that would cost me max points. The 'stealers outflanked to pressure an objective, and managed to kill a squad of marines at the cost of a 'stealer squad.

Game 2
Loss vs Space Marines

Drop grav and drop melta with grav cents, backed up by tiggy in a pod and some scouts.
The mission was kill points. I went first. He deployed his centurions outside of max tyrant range, and a squad of scounts in some mid board terrain. I debated just hopping my Tyrants around in the backfield so that the cents wouldn't be able to get range on his first turn and trusting to venomthropes to protect me from the alpha strike, then counter it with a bunch of charges, but decided it was too risky. I got first blood from the scouts, he killed a tyrant his first turn, and we spent the next few turns trading units. I was never able to put meaningful damage on the centurions, and ended up losing the game 10-1, with only my Warlord left alive. I should note that he was a very skilled player, who knew his army and how to play it against mine.

Game 3
Win vs Imperial Knights

5 Knights, one of them a character with an improved save. I had 3 warp lances, e-grubs, and went first. I killed a knight a turn, he killed a tyrant every 2 turns. Max points and tabling on turn 5.

Game 4
Win vs Tau

He had 2 Stormsurges and 3 Riptides, an inquisitor for servo skulls, 2 naked suits, a commander with a bunch of marker drones, and a Y'vara. This was the match I most feared going into the event.

I seized, used onslaught to get some tyrants into range, and focused on the Stormsurges, doing 6 wounds to one in the first turn. His first turn he put up wounds but didn't drop a tyrant. 2nd turn I put everything I had into the Stormsurges, killing them both, then did some misc wounds to the Riptides. 3rd turn I landed most of my Tyrants, shot a Riptide to death, then got charged, losing a tyrant. The stealers and venoms spend most of the game in the backfield, getting shot up by the Y'vara and getting the occasional hold an objective point. I ended up wining primary and drawing secondary, due to shooting the wrong crisis suit and letting him get the tying point just before the game ended. Had it continued I would have gotten max points and tabled him, as he only had marker drones at that point.

Game 5
Tie vs Eldar
He had 2 Warpspinners and a cross section of eldar infantry, plus some scatbikes and a farseer in a unit of shining spears. Also a building with a lascannon on top, taken mostly to ensure he would have a line of sight blocker on the table. No wraithknight.

This was the last game and we were both out of the running for top three, so this was a rather relaxed game. He siezed (karma), killing a Tyrant for first blood. I pushed everyone who could reach into the building, managing to ground a Tyrant with perils of the warp from a warp lance that didn't have the decency to hit anything, and did some damage to the building. He spend the rest of the game picking at Tyrants while I whittled him down, a squad at a time. It ended in a tie, with me having primary, him secondary, and his first blood vs my linebreaker.

I haven't mentioned the genestealers much yet because they never really did anything spectacular. They killed a few squads of Marines, a handful of Eldar, ticked a wound off a Knight, and were target practice for Tau. Instead, each game, they earned or threatened to earn maelstrom points every mission. I could leave them in my backfield to score objectives, outflank them to get into my opponents backfield, or outflank them onto objectives near the tables edge. Flying Tyrants normally struggle to score maelstrom objectives that don't say "kill an enemy unit". The small Genestealer squads gave me a lot of maelstrom utility in units that I didn't mind losing-even if they got killed before getting a point, every bolter not fired at a Tyrant is a good thing.

Bonzai wrote:

Timeshadow wrote:
The Genestealer cults are ok and a wonderful 1st turn threat now that they can infiltrate normally with allied Tyranids. They would be nearly broken as battle brothers (not as broken as grav spam/ superfriends/ free transports/ and wolfin which are all still legal) but they are fun to play with and I am looking forward to the day they finally come out with an actual codex for them.

I'm not sure how they would be broken. Only thing the battle brothers gives them is the ability to use psychic powers and join units. So they can make a unit of Nids invisible, and the IC's could joing Nid units. (You could also have a prime join a cult unit, but there is no real benefit to it). I can't think of any Nid unit that compares to a Death Star with Invisability. Nor do I see how giving a unit stealth by joining the patriarch to it is a game changer either. I hear this "broken" argument all the time, but I just don't see it. Invisability could be considered broken, but it's less so on Nids than any other army that gets it.

I used broken in comparison to the aforementioned offenders....and I used nearly meaning not as bad as. Honestly I think it just gives a Nid army some nice flavor and a fighting chance against the cheese factories. I even dusted off a full squad of melee Warriors to add Ghozar to but was denied by the "new" allies of convenience ruling.

So what do we think would make a good Tyranid Kill Team?

We actually have plenty of options I think, from full on horde to compact elite force.

I'd be tempted to try out 3 Warriors and a Venomthrope. Sprinkle in a Bonesword/Lashwhip and make one of them a Haywire Specialist and most bases are covered. We also have the added benefit of being able to almost completely work around the Break Tests issue with all our Fearless units.

Anyone else thought about what they would/will run?

3 warriors, and fill the rest up with 13 devourer gaunts.
48 S4 shots a turn isn't bad for a kill team.

Several ideas for Nids/genecult:

3x Shrikes w/ RC, 19x Hormagaunts
Shrike leader
Shrike spec - Hatred
Shrike spec - Shred (in melee)
Horma spec - Infiltrate



10 Genestealers w/ Broodlord
BL leader
Gene spec - Fleshbane
Gene spec - Shred
Gene spec - Assault nades



3x Warriors, 1 w/ BS, 2 w/ DS, 11 devilgaunts
BS leader
DS spec - Haywire in melee
DS spec - PE
Terma spec - Shred VS 1+ wound models



4 lictors
Lictor leader
Listor spec - Hatred
Lictor spec - Shred
Lictor spec - EW



Favoured Disciples + Faithful throng
Autogun leader
ML spec - Relentless
ML spec - MC
Disciple spec - Hatred



2x favoured disciples + Purestrain Princelings
Gene leader
Gene spec - Shred
Disc spec - Fleshbane
Disc spec - haywire in melee

Got all the Nid ones painted and ready to go. Interestingly, since Instinctive behaviour is not cancelled out in KT, gaunts still suffer it - meaning you need synapse if you plan on running termas. However, hormas ignore the 1-3 "eat each other" result in a squad of one, and only have to charge and can't run if they fail, which isn't so bad. So those 40 hormagaunt KTs are good to go!

krakentendrilswarm wrote:
So what do we think would make a good Tyranid Kill Team?

We actually have plenty of options I think, from full on horde to compact elite force.

I'd be tempted to try out 3 Warriors and a Venomthrope. Sprinkle in a Bonesword/Lashwhip and make one of them a Haywire Specialist and most bases are covered. We also have the added benefit of being able to almost completely work around the Break Tests issue with all our Fearless units.

Anyone else thought about what they would/will run?

Unless we there is some exception to Synapse, then we are kind of limited to what we can take. Warriors, genestealers, and Lictors are probably our best bets. Since there won't be any 2+ saves, Warriors are probably the best choice.

A lone Hive Guard is also worth thinking about, option to give it +12" range, +1BS or re-roll failed penetrate armour, ideal for breaking open whatever transport (or T4 multi-wound models) might appear.

Just had a 2v2 kill team game with the first list above (Shrikes+Hormas). My ally was warriors and gargoyles, our foes a 5 man DW team and a big blob of guard with one plasma, one flamer, some nade launchers and 2 HB teams. I was lined up against the DW, and had to carefully place the Shrikes so his IC frag cannon couldn't off one of them immediately. Fortunately I managed, and only lost 4 hormas t1, then proceeded to massacre 3 DW with shrikes, tying the rest up with hormas (it'd be a slapfight I eventually won). My ally meanwhile crumpled a little as he lost his lead warrior t1, meaning a lot of the gargoyles went to ground and were fairly useless. He was wiped out relatively soon after after making a bit of a dent in the guard line, the HBs did a lot of work - one had split fire, the other Shred vs multiwound models.

However, by this stage we'd just about broken the guard, and fortunately a solid 6 of his army fled- but I was down to one Shrike and a handful of hormas. Some judicious multicharging (thankyou FaQ) allowed my shrike to dodge shooting for a few turns, but I was fast running out of hormas to use to soak overwatch - and his guard were surprisingly effective at chipping off the odd wound in combat. Then final turn was 3 hormas and a 1 wound shrike left against the 2 HB teams - he killed one on overwatch, and one team slapped my shrike to death, it having charged through terrain... My two hormas finished off one team, then one got killed by overwatch and the other again, slapped by that HB team. So it came down to one model on each side left in the end, so couldn'tve been much closer!

Overall my team did pretty well - not sure I'd fancy my chances against the guard 1v1 though, HBs are brutal. I'm also thinking about taking FNP on a shrike - they're reasonably durable, but tend to only have a 5+ all the time, so the additional save would really help their survivability. That said, te other two shrikes would just be prioritised in that instance, so maybe not... I really missed having a Venomthrope, Shrouded would be invaluable in Kt. Such a shame the malanthrope has 4 wounds and thus isn't allowed - it and 23 hormas would be very interesting!

I have a question: has someone ever tried a full swarm army? and with that I mean tons of gants or gargoyles.

Most competitive lists I have seen simply don't seem prepared to deal with hundreds of models. The only problems I see being synapse and time. There is little that can be done about time, but for synapse you could use Tyrants hidden in gargoyle swarms.

Something like:
+++ Swarm 1850 (1850pts) +++

++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

Skytyrant Swarm
Gargoyle Brood [30x Gargoyle]
Gargoyle Brood [30x Gargoyle]
Hive Tyrant [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]

++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters]

Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters]

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]

+ Troops +

Termagant Brood
20x Devourer Termagant [20x Devourer]

Termagant Brood
20x Devourer Termagant [20x Devourer]

+ Fast Attack +

Gargoyle Brood [30x Gargoyle]

Gargoyle Brood [30x Gargoyle]

Gargoyle Brood [30x Gargoyle]

Created with BattleScribe

It's just an idea.

With extensive use of magnetized movement trays it could be a tolerable way to play.

babelfish wrote:

I played the 2000 point ITC tournament at War Games Con in Austin Texas last weekend. I ran my Flyrants, taking 12th place in a field of ~80 with 3 wins, 1 loss, and 1 tie.

Spoiler:

My build was 7 flying Tyrants with double devourers and egrubs, 2 Venomthropes, 5 Mucolid Spores, a 5x Genestealer brood, and a 6x Genestealer brood. I would have preferred to run 6 Mucolid's and 2 5x Genestealers, but other commitments prevented me from getting the 6th Mucolid finished. As it was I ended up having a Tyrant that was missing most of the detail work, which was a bit of an embarrassment.

I ran the Genestealers because I wanted to use infiltrate to better keep drop pods of midfield objectives and to increase my standoff distance vs grav bikers. They ended up being very useful, and I've become convinced that for ITC style tournaments the 'stealers are the best option to fill out a flyrant build.

Game 1
Win vs Marines + 1 Imperial Knight

This guy had a rather casual list, with a lot of preds and marines in rhinos. The only real threat to my Tyrants was a squad of lascanon devastators. The devastators shrugged off two Tyrant's worth of fire first turn with only one casualty, but on second turn they died, the Knight died, the Knight explosion took out enough of his warlords squad to force a leadership check, the warlord ran off the board, and after that it was mostly a matter of not making mistakes that would cost me max points. The 'stealers outflanked to pressure an objective, and managed to kill a squad of marines at the cost of a 'stealer squad.

Game 2
Loss vs Space Marines

Drop grav and drop melta with grav cents, backed up by tiggy in a pod and some scouts.
The mission was kill points. I went first. He deployed his centurions outside of max tyrant range, and a squad of scounts in some mid board terrain. I debated just hopping my Tyrants around in the backfield so that the cents wouldn't be able to get range on his first turn and trusting to venomthropes to protect me from the alpha strike, then counter it with a bunch of charges, but decided it was too risky. I got first blood from the scouts, he killed a tyrant his first turn, and we spent the next few turns trading units. I was never able to put meaningful damage on the centurions, and ended up losing the game 10-1, with only my Warlord left alive. I should note that he was a very skilled player, who knew his army and how to play it against mine.

Game 3
Win vs Imperial Knights

5 Knights, one of them a character with an improved save. I had 3 warp lances, e-grubs, and went first. I killed a knight a turn, he killed a tyrant every 2 turns. Max points and tabling on turn 5.

Game 4
Win vs Tau

He had 2 Stormsurges and 3 Riptides, an inquisitor for servo skulls, 2 naked suits, a commander with a bunch of marker drones, and a Y'vara. This was the match I most feared going into the event.

I seized, used onslaught to get some tyrants into range, and focused on the Stormsurges, doing 6 wounds to one in the first turn. His first turn he put up wounds but didn't drop a tyrant. 2nd turn I put everything I had into the Stormsurges, killing them both, then did some misc wounds to the Riptides. 3rd turn I landed most of my Tyrants, shot a Riptide to death, then got charged, losing a tyrant. The stealers and venoms spend most of the game in the backfield, getting shot up by the Y'vara and getting the occasional hold an objective point. I ended up wining primary and drawing secondary, due to shooting the wrong crisis suit and letting him get the tying point just before the game ended. Had it continued I would have gotten max points and tabled him, as he only had marker drones at that point.

Game 5
Tie vs Eldar
He had 2 Warpspinners and a cross section of eldar infantry, plus some scatbikes and a farseer in a unit of shining spears. Also a building with a lascannon on top, taken mostly to ensure he would have a line of sight blocker on the table. No wraithknight.

This was the last game and we were both out of the running for top three, so this was a rather relaxed game. He siezed (karma), killing a Tyrant for first blood. I pushed everyone who could reach into the building, managing to ground a Tyrant with perils of the warp from a warp lance that didn't have the decency to hit anything, and did some damage to the building. He spend the rest of the game picking at Tyrants while I whittled him down, a squad at a time. It ended in a tie, with me having primary, him secondary, and his first blood vs my linebreaker.

I haven't mentioned the genestealers much yet because they never really did anything spectacular. They killed a few squads of Marines, a handful of Eldar, ticked a wound off a Knight, and were target practice for Tau. Instead, each game, they earned or threatened to earn maelstrom points every mission. I could leave them in my backfield to score objectives, outflank them to get into my opponents backfield, or outflank them onto objectives near the tables edge. Flying Tyrants normally struggle to score maelstrom objectives that don't say "kill an enemy unit". The small Genestealer squads gave me a lot of maelstrom utility in units that I didn't mind losing-even if they got killed before getting a point, every bolter not fired at a Tyrant is a good thing.

Congrats on your finish. Last year (or maybe it was the year before), krootman took a 6-flyrant list with allied Daemons (for summoning) and did really well at Nova. Now we up the ante with 7.

Flyrant-spam Tyranids IMO can potentially do better in the NOVA format due to the ability to score at the end of the game as opposed to the ITC, where they will be missing out on the progressive Maelstrom points by not claiming objectives each turn. Good to see your bugs putting up a good fight. Flyrant-spam Tyranids are a good anti-meta army right now, but that may change once Death from the Skies gets legalized for competitive play in the US.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyran wrote:
I have a question: has someone ever tried a full swarm army? and with that I mean tons of gants or gargoyles.

Most competitive lists I have seen simply don't seem prepared to deal with hundreds of models. The only problems I see being synapse and time. There is little that can be done about time, but for synapse you could use Tyrants hidden in gargoyle swarms.

Something like:

Spoiler:

+++ Swarm 1850 (1850pts) +++

++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

Skytyrant Swarm
Gargoyle Brood [30x Gargoyle]
Gargoyle Brood [30x Gargoyle]
Hive Tyrant [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]

++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters]

Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters]

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]

+ Troops +

Termagant Brood
20x Devourer Termagant [20x Devourer]

Termagant Brood
20x Devourer Termagant [20x Devourer]

+ Fast Attack +

Gargoyle Brood [30x Gargoyle]

Gargoyle Brood [30x Gargoyle]

Gargoyle Brood [30x Gargoyle]

Created with BattleScribe

It's just an idea.

That's an intriguing list. I myself have played with the idea of running a 90-gargoyle list (including Skyblight) but then the reality of building/painting 90 gargoyles crashes my dream every time. Lol.

There was someone here who ran the Endless Swarm formation. Competitively, his results in tournament play were only so-so.

I myself tried a semi-swarm with a 2-tervigon-60-termagant list at the BAO. Unfortunately, they didn't do too well there either.

The problem is that deathstar-type and/or the more extreme shooty lists can still chew through hordes of bugs, especially one without malanthropes/venomthropes in them.

The other problem is that this type of list cannot deal with massed vehicles the likes of Battle Company. They can just park their ObSec transports/drop pods on objectives and then you've got a mountain to climb just because you really don't have much options for AT.

Against the right list, the Tyranid swarm army can excel. However, there's just too many lists in competitive play that can deal with a bug swarm.

I don't know if you know about it, but a fellow member of Dakkadakka made a Tyranid fandex and he is asking for feedback.

The codex is very well done and polished and can be found here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/701499.page

Tyran wrote:
I have a question: has someone ever tried a full swarm army? and with that I mean tons of gants or gargoyles.

Most competitive lists I have seen simply don't seem prepared to deal with hundreds of models. The only problems I see being synapse and time. There is little that can be done about time, but for synapse you could use Tyrants hidden in gargoyle swarms.

Something like:

Spoiler:

+++ Swarm 1850 (1850pts) +++

++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

Skytyrant Swarm
Gargoyle Brood [30x Gargoyle]
Gargoyle Brood [30x Gargoyle]
Hive Tyrant [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]

++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters]

Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters]

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]

+ Troops +

Termagant Brood
20x Devourer Termagant [20x Devourer]

Termagant Brood
20x Devourer Termagant [20x Devourer]

+ Fast Attack +

Gargoyle Brood [30x Gargoyle]

Gargoyle Brood [30x Gargoyle]

Gargoyle Brood [30x Gargoyle]

Created with BattleScribe

It's just an idea.

So I actually did and have an upcoming plan with swarm nids, based off of a large swarm army I ran for last year. I did a number of battle reports leading up to the TSHFT championship last year here in Washington.

First thing I found was time. (duh) My swarm when playing a game that reached it's natural conclusion at turn 6 nearly always won. Numbers were in my favor and there wasn't an army out there that had enough firepower to take out the whole army before it reached and chopped them up. Especially as when running endless swarm and spore field they were coming back half the time.
However in competition, when limited to 2 1/2 hours that changed. I completed one game in six to it's natural conclusion, which I won. One game ended super early turn two due to pod traps coming into play and his sky hammer landing so close without ignores cover, that they got run over the next turn.
The other four games however were what I would expect in general tournament play. There wasn't enough time (all four games ended on turn 3) Drop pods vs swarm just takes too much time.
Two games were against drop pods with white scar grav cannons. Both of them got first turn, both of them dropped in and ganked both of my flyrants with their one grav squad. (This was super frustrating.) One game was against flyrant spam with sky blight. Even with it ending turn three, I had the relic. However two surviving gargoyles in close combat with my unit that held the relic had objective secured, thus taking it from me because it is now an objective. The final game was against war convocation, and I just didn't have time to get across the table in three turns to contest or take objectives.

The primary things I learned from all of this when running swarm (I'm planning to run a different swarm at TSHFT this year.):

Flyrants are actually a poor investment. Flight paths with over 100 models on the table get real limited, and I found them either killed before they could fly, deep striking at at the whims of reserve dice when I needed them, or trapped to the outskirts of the table. I've ditched them from my list.
Trygon: While a tunnel makes sense when bringing the endless swarm, it rarely worked out for me. Twice I felt like I needed the beast on the table from turn one, so I didn't even make the hole in the first place.
Endless swarm: Returning gribblies are cool, but again, without that long game they don't work out in your favor.
Anti-tank: Throughout my test games, anti-tank was one of my largest weakness'. The fact that my basic monstrous creatures couldn't reliably kill a drop pod was incredibly frustrating. Crushing claws are a must, and you need three or four sets of tank hunters.
Defense: A bunker with an escape hatch and twenty hormagaunts puts a massive force within 8-10" of an opponent turn one. That's intimidating. However, if you aren't going first, your opponent gets to blow apart a large portion of your deployment and can then handle that force when it pops out. Inability to charge that first turn neuters the threat without overwhelming additional threats. My preference for the bunker has changed to the old reliable void shield. This protects a lot of your army and can castrate some opponents that can't get through the shield.
Spore field: This does the threat overload. Bombs that are disposable, don't give points, and come back half the time are dangerous and frustrating for an opponent that isn't dropping in. I don't think I can design an army without it currently. (This will all change when they can't return to the table with deep strike.)

My current version has around 120 models, the void shield, spore field, genestealer cult and a couple of crushing claw tervignons. Life prevents me from the in depth battle reports (or really even getting a game in). So I won't get to share as much, but I will report back what happens when I do finally get to take it out for a spin.

Tyran wrote:
I don't know if you know about it, but a fellow member of Dakkadakka made a Tyranid fandex and he is asking for feedback.

The codex is very well done and polished and can be found here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/701499.page

I actually had a cursory glance at it before. I'll look into it in more detail when I have more time. Thanks!

Well, time to report in on the Malceptor findings. Overall findings...average. Before I go any further, I will report that several abnormalities occurred during the tests such as making most saves as well as pulling catalyst or paroxysm most games with the odd The Horror every so often.

Overall, I ran it with a full brood of gargoyles and 2 individual zoanthropes. They would surround a transport and pin it to terrain and then pop it, killing roughly half a squad through a failure to deploy. Beyond that, in support of large swarms, they did manage to soak up a fair bit of firepower and proved to be worth the extra points and powers over a trio of warriors. I won't say that they will perform well most of the time, but there does seem to be some use for them, but not before warriors are seen competitively.

With the new FAQ for psychic powers letting the Melceptor actully use it's powers without rolling to hit is the psychic formation now useable? I'm actully considering it so some feedback would be nice. I don't get anywhere near the number of games in that I'd like so I can't personally test it very well.

So I have a tournament upcoming that is 'escalation' style, meaning the first game is going to be 750 points, growing to 1250, growing to 1750.

This is at my LGS, so not terribly cutthroat.

Any thoughts on this 750 list? Genestealer Cult, with a small Tyranid allied detachment

GENESTEALER CULT
Ghosar Quintus Broodkin

TYRANIDS
Deathleaper
Mucolid


Deathleaper might seem odd, but if you only have 150 points left, he's about the only IC you can still include in the Nid list (barring the Prime). I would have perhaps liked to add another small CAD of Genestealer Cult instead, but with the characters all being unique, I can't do that.
I know I could just include a Genestealer Cult CAD instead of the Broodkin, but losing army wide Infiltrate and Stealth isn't worth it IMO.

If anyone has some thoughts how else to spend the last 150 points (some Imperial Guard?), they are more than welcome!
Any thoughts?

If your sticking with cult, and tyranid allies.

I like the leaper and mucolid, fits a theme and deathleaper is super tough to get warlord from. You can hide him on your deepstrike after initial moves have forced your opponent to commit.

My other thought though would be using the sporefield. It's 90 points to start with, but six additional units, you can beef up each of them to reach 150 on the dot, and it is super useful as you expand the army. It infiltrates, and if you have good return rolls, you end up with a bunch of free points.

Given the news that Codex: Genestealer Cult is coming out next week, I'll be holding off until I can get my hands on it; hopefully it will give me more options

Polkadragon wrote:
Given the news that Codex: Genestealer Cult is coming out next week, I'll be holding off until I can get my hands on it; hopefully it will give me more options

That is Very cool! I have been out of circulation for a while...Should we start a seprate Tactics thread for the Cult?

Timeshadow wrote:With the new FAQ for psychic powers letting the Melceptor actully use it's powers without rolling to hit is the psychic formation now useable? I'm actully considering it so some feedback would be nice. I don't get anywhere near the number of games in that I'd like so I can't personally test it very well.

Sorry for the delay! Honestly, I find that it was really underwhelming. You could probably find better mileage out of better dedicated anti tank.

pinecone77 wrote:

Polkadragon wrote:
Given the news that Codex: Genestealer Cult is coming out next week, I'll be holding off until I can get my hands on it; hopefully it will give me more options

That is Very cool! I have been out of circulation for a while...Should we start a seprate Tactics thread for the Cult?

Probably not. It will still be valuable information here if Genestealer Cults are battle brothers with Tyranids.

How many synapse creatures do you need in a list ?
My friend is doing an army, for casual play which is the following

2 flying tyrants
3 carnifex with double twin linked devourers
about 30 horma
20 gargoyles
about 30 terma
1 venomthrope
1 venomthrope
one squad of 2 zoanthropes
1 sporocyst
1 trygon

He wants his list to be 2000pts, but he doesn't know what to add. I think he has enough synapse, but he wants to add "as many as possible".
Warriors, or more zoanthropes maybe.

So, what would you add to this army (our meta isn't competitvel) ?
I'm asking to Dakka, as there are more people !
Thanks !

 godardc wrote:
How many synapse creatures do you need in a list ?
My friend is doing an army, for casual play which is the following

2 flying tyrants
3 carnifex with double twin linked devourers
about 30 horma
20 gargoyles
about 30 terma
1 venomthrope
1 venomthrope
one squad of 2 zoanthropes
1 sporocyst
1 trygon

He wants his list to be 2000pts, but he doesn't know what to add. I think he has enough synapse, but he wants to add "as many as possible".
Warriors, or more zoanthropes maybe.

So, what would you add to this army (our meta isn't competitvel) ?
I'm asking to Dakka, as there are more people !
Thanks !

Sporocyst can be a fun way to make your synapse more effective, but I wouldn't count on it. I tend to calculate 1 synapse per 500 points, +1. So for 2000 points I would aim at 5 synapse units. You have the zoats and two flyrants so far. Turn the venemthropes into malanthropes both and you have five synapse, the same shrouding, and a tougher creature. Alternately, if your friend is feeling swarmy, adding 30 termagants and a Tervignon in troops gives a lot of objective secured, and another synapse. Cheapest available from that list however would be to upgrade the Trygon to a prime, 40 points for a deep striking synapse with the same model.

I would also consider taking at least three troops total, so you can utilize the hive fleet leviathin CAD. That allows you to re-roll your instinctive behavior if you do find yourself failing a test.

That sounds reasonable, personally I usually reccomend at least one Synapse for every turn you expect the game to last. Because your foe may try to kill your Synapse so for 2000 I'd want between 6 and 7...so...6 or more.

I like using both Zoeys and Warrior Broods...Warriors can fill a Troop slot too...

 godardc wrote:
How many synapse creatures do you need in a list ?
My friend is doing an army, for casual play which is the following

2 flying tyrants
3 carnifex with double twin linked devourers
about 30 horma
20 gargoyles
about 30 terma
1 venomthrope
1 venomthrope
one squad of 2 zoanthropes
1 sporocyst
1 trygon

He wants his list to be 2000pts, but he doesn't know what to add. I think he has enough synapse, but he wants to add "as many as possible".
Warriors, or more zoanthropes maybe.

So, what would you add to this army (our meta isn't competitvel) ?
I'm asking to Dakka, as there are more people !
Thanks !

I would definitly upgrade the 2 venoms into a Malanthrope to give you +1, then you could seperate the 2 Zoanthropes into 2 broods of 1 giving you another +1. I think this with what he already has should be enough. I find warriors overcosted and far too easy to kill. I guess the upgrade to your Trygon to a prime is another +1 if he really wants more synapse.

I count up the army as being around 1700 points as it is. So that's plenty or room to turn both venemthropes into Malanthropes, and ad a troop tervignon in growing to 2000.

I like running my tervignons focusing on Crushing claws, and potentially taking adrenal glands as well. They become vehicle destroyers that really spread out your anti tank. Being the equivalent of a melta gun first turn of combat is really nice.