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 xttz wrote:

Both the Rapier and Imperator are units that make more sense to develop for Epic rather than AT. Any weapons on the former are going to be little threat to targets bigger than knights, and more likely suited to clearing tanks & infantry. Meanwhile the big guy not only works against all kinds of targets (including anti-air), but was designed around being a mobile fortress with a transport capacity. Among other things, an Imperator wants to be carrying a bunch of marines or skitarii forward while mowing down enemy infantry with a billion heavy bolters.

While they certainly wouldn't be useless in AT, it would it certainly be easier to sell the models if there is a more suitable game system to use them in.

The strongest unit point for point in AT is a knight, it outshoots most warlords. There's no reason to assume a rapier's terminals aren't just a hound terminal with worse armour and a higher movement stat. Weaponwise if a warhound can have one of the strongest weapons in the game I see no reason for a rapier to have weak weapon options.


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 Mr_Rose wrote:
I would rather they made plastic small titans like Dire Wolves and Rapiers than spend sprue time on things like imperators. I feel like half the reason they haven’t done much lately is they used the entire allocation of sprue space for the year on the Warmaster and were somehow surprised that a Titan no-one asked for, nor had even heard of before, and is at best a one-or-two-per-customer centrepiece, didn’t sell in volumes to match the Warlord.

If they had used those same three or four full frames of space on three or four sets of, say, two dire wolves, two rapiers, the missing Warbringer weapons, and, say, some plastic weapon options on “character” mini-sprues, I’m pretty sure they would have sold vastly better.

Agreed 100%, we not only got a titan no one asked for, but they literally gaslit us and pretended it's an entirely new titan and you totally need two 1200pt 200 dollar titans thought gw arrogantly as always. Would be much happier with more plastic titans, weapons, new cards for said weapons and terminals, and will pay for those. Crappy fw resin? Printer go brrrr.

 Crablezworth wrote:
Crappy fw resin? Printer go brrrr.

...and then you complain the game isn't seeing much support - strange, that.

I think one problem with constantly expanding the AT range of models if they are also seriously considering Epic is that they end up with such a huge range of titans that;

1) Any non-imperial army has a massive backlog of creative work to catch up with.

2) It's hard to make Epic work if the Titans can already fill pretty much every single battle role on the table.

 Overread wrote:
I think one problem with constantly expanding the AT range of models if they are also seriously considering Epic is that they end up with such a huge range of titans that

2) It's hard to make Epic work if the Titans can already fill pretty much every single battle role on the table.

Fluffwise that is why Beta Garmon happened. Not only to bleed Horus, but to get rid of a lot of titans so they wouldn't wreck Terra.

Mechanically, this problem is why titans tend to lose their flavor and options when moved from their game to epic, to nerf them so other units can shine

 Mr_Rose wrote:
I would rather they made plastic small titans like Dire Wolves and Rapiers than spend sprue time on things like imperators. I feel like half the reason they haven’t done much lately is they used the entire allocation of sprue space for the year on the Warmaster and were somehow surprised that a Titan no-one asked for, nor had even heard of before, and is at best a one-or-two-per-customer centrepiece, didn’t sell in volumes to match the Warlord.

If they had used those same three or four full frames of space on three or four sets of, say, two dire wolves, two rapiers, the missing Warbringer weapons, and, say, some plastic weapon options on “character” mini-sprues, I’m pretty sure they would have sold vastly better.

I agree with you, but I'm biased with the smaller Titans.

And I don't think the first Warmaster release was an issue. Seemed to be positively received and sell well enough. The mistake IMO was double-dipping with the Iconoclast, what, six months later? No wonder some of those kits collected dust. And it probably compounded the problem by using up too much of the game's plastic allocation like you said. That was a real misstep from the GW marketing team IMO.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Crappy fw resin? Printer go brrrr.

...and then you complain the game isn't seeing much support - strange, that.

Yeah I wonder what the sentance before that said? " Would be much happier with more plastic titans, weapons, new cards for said weapons and terminals, and will pay for those." So if only i purchased stuff I don't want I'd be a good supporter? That's real rich fren. Real rich. I got an event I'm running next week and we've managed to attract about 4 people, if only I had purchased more forgeworld products, I did this to myself, really


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 gorgon wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
I would rather they made plastic small titans like Dire Wolves and Rapiers than spend sprue time on things like imperators. I feel like half the reason they haven’t done much lately is they used the entire allocation of sprue space for the year on the Warmaster and were somehow surprised that a Titan no-one asked for, nor had even heard of before, and is at best a one-or-two-per-customer centrepiece, didn’t sell in volumes to match the Warlord.

If they had used those same three or four full frames of space on three or four sets of, say, two dire wolves, two rapiers, the missing Warbringer weapons, and, say, some plastic weapon options on “character” mini-sprues, I’m pretty sure they would have sold vastly better.

I agree with you, but I'm biased with the smaller Titans.

And I don't think the first Warmaster release was an issue. Seemed to be positively received and sell well enough. The mistake IMO was double-dipping with the Iconoclast, what, six months later? No wonder some of those kits collected dust. And it probably compounded the problem by using up too much of the game's plastic allocation like you said. That was a real misstep from the GW marketing team IMO.

We also had the amen chorus for gw back then insisting furiously that the iconoclast sprue would be released separately like the warlord weapons srpues. And here we are some time later and nothin. Totally agree its absurd to expect anyone to buy an entire second warmaster to get a couple weapons and a head swap. GW has basically gone back on the whole modular thing, a lot of regression, a damn shame.


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 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I think one problem with constantly expanding the AT range of models if they are also seriously considering Epic is that they end up with such a huge range of titans that

2) It's hard to make Epic work if the Titans can already fill pretty much every single battle role on the table.

Fluffwise that is why Beta Garmon happened. Not only to bleed Horus, but to get rid of a lot of titans so they wouldn't wreck Terra.

Mechanically, this problem is why titans tend to lose their flavor and options when moved from their game to epic, to nerf them so other units can shine

That's the other issue too with hoping the game expand into orks/eldar stuff, it can barely handle just titan's and knights.

 gorgon wrote:

And I don't think the first Warmaster release was an issue. Seemed to be positively received and sell well enough. The mistake IMO was double-dipping with the Iconoclast, what, six months later? No wonder some of those kits collected dust. And it probably compounded the problem by using up too much of the game's plastic allocation like you said. That was a real misstep from the GW marketing team IMO.

Fully agree with that assessment. From what I remember there was a lot of interest in the plasma Warmaster, which beat GW's forecasts and quickly sold out on release. However that trend completely reversed with the Iconoclast. Later I saw multiple retailers trying to offload that stock during black Friday events with discounts as low as 50%

I expect sooner or later there will be a consolidation to a single Warmaster box with both weapon sprues, like they did with the 40k Knight kits.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Fluffwise that is why Beta Garmon happened. Not only to bleed Horus, but to get rid of a lot of titans so they wouldn't wreck Terra.

Mechanically, this problem is why titans tend to lose their flavor and options when moved from their game to epic, to nerf them so other units can shine

Yep, even 1st edition limited titan options to a 1/3 of the points due to how they dominated...

 Crablezworth wrote:
We also had the amen chorus for gw back then insisting furiously that the iconoclast sprue would be released separately like the warlord weapons srpues. And here we are some time later and nothin. Totally agree its absurd to expect anyone to buy an entire second warmaster to get a couple weapons and a head swap. GW has basically gone back on the whole modular thing, a lot of regression, a damn shame.

I know you're stuck on the modularity thing, but I'm pretty confident that the point of the release wasn't to make people buy a second kit to get different weapons. They thought people would want and would buy a second kit to have a second Warmaster. They were probably confident since the Warmaster sold well, and people had no issues buying multiple Warlords. But a second Warmaster just isn't a very useful miniature for the actual game. What's more, it followed too soon after the first kit.

Could it have been a more interesting release alongside some resin corrupted Warmaster bit options from FW? Something to distinguish it more, maybe? I dunno. IIRC, they released the Iconoclast alongside the Traitor book, but I really wonder if the reception would have been better had they just waited a full year. They just really did not have their finger on the pulse of their customers with that release. A Rapier or unnamed scale 7 Titan kit in place of the Iconoclast probably would have been a more interesting release and more interesting for the game.

 gorgon wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
We also had the amen chorus for gw back then insisting furiously that the iconoclast sprue would be released separately like the warlord weapons srpues. And here we are some time later and nothin. Totally agree its absurd to expect anyone to buy an entire second warmaster to get a couple weapons and a head swap. GW has basically gone back on the whole modular thing, a lot of regression, a damn shame.

I know you're stuck on the modularity thing,

Yes, the modularity "thing" that was a core feature of the game system and primary benefit of said aforementioned game system so much so that even the terminals are modular to account for said core feature, that one, yes. The one they've deviated from entirely to sell over priced resin with no options.

My main beef with the game is the strangling of options to build a varied force in a game of so little elements. Even resigning myself to a titan force with knight support, and vice versa, they then restricted it even further to the point where one might as well just go for an all titan, or all knight force. Its now only worth playing titans vs titans, or Knights vs Knights, and so we're at the point of two separate games anyway...

Personally, I feel that Adeptus Titanicus should go to a new edition and gut the Knights from the game completely. Instead, let them shine in Epic.

 Crablezworth wrote:


Yes, the modularity "thing" that was a core feature of the game system and primary benefit of said aforementioned game system so much so that even the terminals are modular to account for said core feature, that one, yes. The one they've deviated from entirely to sell over priced resin with no options.

Agreed.

Afterall, players were screaming murder when they announced the Sunfury titan but no individual weapon sprue for their expensive Warlord titans. This being a much larger and thus more expensive plastic titan, I'm surprised the outrage wasn't greater.

On the plus side, all the new cards sets remained available on pre-order long enough for me to get one of each several hours after they went on sale.

My expectation of a quick sell out was thankfully unfounded.

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Crappy fw resin? Printer go brrrr.

...and then you complain the game isn't seeing much support - strange, that.

Yeah I wonder what the sentance before that said? " Would be much happier with more plastic titans, weapons, new cards for said weapons and terminals, and will pay for those." So if only i purchased stuff I don't want I'd be a good supporter? That's real rich fren. Real rich. I got an event I'm running next week and we've managed to attract about 4 people, if only I had purchased more forgeworld products, I did this to myself, really

If you're not going to buy the thing, but you're going to take rules cards off the 'net and either scratchbuild (see: Dire Wolf) or 3D print parts (as you're talking about here) because you're throwing a hissy fit about the material they're being released in, you're not supporting the game - you're acting like you're entitled to the content, at best, or like a parasite, at worst.

If you were doing this out of some mistaken thought of principles, you wouldn't leech off the game as you do.

I just wished they hadn't set it during the Horus Heresy. Locks out every single Xenos faction. Would've been cool to say, have campaign books set in each millennium, possibly including the Heresy but with a broader scope, so that say we have one set during the War of the Beast, one set during some other IOM conflict, one focusing on say the Eldar vs a Necron Force and things of that nature. They have 10k years to work with but focus on the "present day of 40K" and the Heresy nearly to the exclusion of the rest of the entire 10k years of history. Would be awesome to see properly Chaos Titans, Titan sized Daemon Engines, Ork Gargants, Eldar Titans, Tyranid Bio-Titans if we want to touch the more modern period. They could even introduce some Necron titan sized constructs and vehicles and make the Galaxy feel much larger.

panzerfront14 wrote:
I just wished they hadn't set it during the Horus Heresy. Locks out every single Xenos faction. Would've been cool to say, have campaign books set in each millennium, possibly including the Heresy but with a broader scope, so that say we have one set during the War of the Beast, one set during some other IOM conflict, one focusing on say the Eldar vs a Necron Force and things of that nature. They have 10k years to work with but focus on the "present day of 40K" and the Heresy nearly to the exclusion of the rest of the entire 10k years of history. Would be awesome to see properly Chaos Titans, Titan sized Daemon Engines, Ork Gargants, Eldar Titans, Tyranid Bio-Titans if we want to touch the more modern period. They could even introduce some Necron titan sized constructs and vehicles and make the Galaxy feel much larger.

It does not lock out the Eldar - the original AT had Eldar Titans fighting against Horus - not with the Imperium but against Horus - they made that distintiction very clear -so you could have them.

 Mr Morden wrote:

panzerfront14 wrote:
I just wished they hadn't set it during the Horus Heresy. Locks out every single Xenos faction. Would've been cool to say, have campaign books set in each millennium, possibly including the Heresy but with a broader scope, so that say we have one set during the War of the Beast, one set during some other IOM conflict, one focusing on say the Eldar vs a Necron Force and things of that nature. They have 10k years to work with but focus on the "present day of 40K" and the Heresy nearly to the exclusion of the rest of the entire 10k years of history. Would be awesome to see properly Chaos Titans, Titan sized Daemon Engines, Ork Gargants, Eldar Titans, Tyranid Bio-Titans if we want to touch the more modern period. They could even introduce some Necron titan sized constructs and vehicles and make the Galaxy feel much larger.

It does not lock out the Eldar - the original AT had Eldar Titans fighting against Horus - not with the Imperium but against Horus - they made that distintiction very clear -so you could have them.

Neither does it exclude Orks, or Squats for that matter; Necron titans are not easy to write in, but it could be done if they're Canoptek constructs instead of 'true' Necrons. The only two Xenos races that are hard out are Tyranids and Tau, because they definitely did not exist in the galaxy at that point.

Also the T’au don’t have titans anyway, their walkers capping out at “large knight” sized.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Also the T’au don’t have titans anyway, their walkers capping out at “large knight” sized.

They have non-titan titans like the manta instead.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Also the T’au don’t have titans anyway, their walkers capping out at “large knight” sized.

The largest suit from Forgeworld is about as large as a Warhound and has comparable firepower, but more mobility, i'd put that in the same category as e.g. the smaller Eldar titan. It's not inconceivable to do a larger suit than that, at battle titan level ~ Reaver class.



Like the biggest knights, it certainly could have titan-level rules if you wanted to, the distinction is a bit arbitrary at the moment.

Necrons already have a knight construct and would certainly have bigger Titans or even C'Tan shards (just like Greater demons used to be for Chaos).

Tau don't have Titans because, TL hasn't existed for them so GW never developed them. They would easily get them as and when a sitaution arose that they'd need them


It's the same as how Tyranids only had 3 Titans. The only reason they had 3 was because they appeared and then Epic 40K died about a month or two later. Had it lasted longer Tyranids would have gained way more; just like Imperials and Orks and Chaos and Eldar and such.

Even Dark Eldar would get Titans if the game were out long enough.



Heck even Genestealer Cults would get them; they'd just be repurposed mining machines (huge bucket close combat titan!) and such.

 Overread wrote:
Necrons already have a knight construct and would certainly have bigger Titans or even C'Tan shards (just like Greater demons used to be for Chaos).

Tau don't have Titans because, TL hasn't existed for them so GW never developed them. They would easily get them as and when a sitaution arose that they'd need them


It's the same as how Tyranids only had 3 Titans. The only reason they had 3 was because they appeared and then Epic 40K died about a month or two later. Had it lasted longer Tyranids would have gained way more; just like Imperials and Orks and Chaos and Eldar and such.

Even Dark Eldar would get Titans if the game were out long enough.



Heck even Genestealer Cults would get them; they'd just be repurposed mining machines (huge bucket close combat titan!) and such.

Yeah, that sort of thing is exactly why i'd love to see Epic return - almost everything bigger than a Land Raider saw the light of day in Epic first, a lot of classic vehicles and beloved concepts come from that game, but unfortunately that means that the 'latecomers' you mentioned got little to no designs from it, and what Forgeworld could deliver straight at 40k scale is necessarily only a fraction of what could have been possible at Epic scale. Things like mining-machine titan-equivalents, towering Tyranid monstrosities, more exotic Eldar titans and cool T'au mechs are all splendid opportunities, and they should have a go at them.

Even in a game that would be -for the time being- limited to the HH, there is so much they could explore: Stormbirds, the larger Mechanicus contraptions, knight-size battle automata, Ordinatus, cool aircraft, superheavy artillery and much, much more. Outside of video games, Epic is just about the best way to explore the mindboggling scale of 40k and 30k battles, and it should absolutely return.

Tau shouldn't get Titans. They have already gone far enough in 5he suit heavy direction, they need to veer back and focus on aircraft and tanks/heavy tanks.

Are the card packs all reprints, or are they updated? Looks like I own them all already, not sure if I should get a set of these or not.

 455_PWR wrote:
Are the card packs all reprints, or are they updated? Looks like I own them all already, not sure if I should get a set of these or not.

They are reprints, and contain neither FAQ nor other updates.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Crappy fw resin? Printer go brrrr.

...and then you complain the game isn't seeing much support - strange, that.

Yeah I wonder what the sentance before that said? " Would be much happier with more plastic titans, weapons, new cards for said weapons and terminals, and will pay for those." So if only i purchased stuff I don't want I'd be a good supporter? That's real rich fren. Real rich. I got an event I'm running next week and we've managed to attract about 4 people, if only I had purchased more forgeworld products, I did this to myself, really

If you're not going to buy the thing, but you're going to take rules cards off the 'net and either scratchbuild (see: Dire Wolf) or 3D print parts (as you're talking about here) because you're throwing a hissy fit about the material they're being released in, you're not supporting the game - you're acting like you're entitled to the content, at best, or like a parasite, at worst.

If you were doing this out of some mistaken thought of principles, you wouldn't leech off the game as you do.

Perhaps you could inform me of all of your contributions to titanicus fren. That is if you can find the time. Here's 18 pages worth of mine: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/787202.page trigger warning there's non-gw third party models in there, just didn't want you to have a panic attack fren.



Just me leechin' I guess.


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 455_PWR wrote:
Are the card packs all reprints, or are they updated? Looks like I own them all already, not sure if I should get a set of these or not.

If you already have all of them probably not. I have to be careful though, dysartes is watching, they might not think I'm good consumer for suggesting you don't literally need to own everything gw puts out.


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panzerfront14 wrote:
I just wished they hadn't set it during the Horus Heresy. Locks out every single Xenos faction. Would've been cool to say, have campaign books set in each millennium, possibly including the Heresy but with a broader scope, so that say we have one set during the War of the Beast, one set during some other IOM conflict, one focusing on say the Eldar vs a Necron Force and things of that nature. They have 10k years to work with but focus on the "present day of 40K" and the Heresy nearly to the exclusion of the rest of the entire 10k years of history. Would be awesome to see properly Chaos Titans, Titan sized Daemon Engines, Ork Gargants, Eldar Titans, Tyranid Bio-Titans if we want to touch the more modern period. They could even introduce some Necron titan sized constructs and vehicles and make the Galaxy feel much larger.

They can't even properly support the titans and knights they have now though.

So...if I already own the Titandeath, Doom of Molech, Shadow and Iron, The Defence of Ryza, and Crucible of Retribution supplements, is there anything in the upcoming "Campaign Compendium" that makes it worth buying?

 Alpharius wrote:
So...if I already own the Titandeath, Doom of Molech, Shadow and Iron, The Defence of Ryza, and Crucible of Retribution supplements, is there anything in the upcoming "Campaign Compendium" that makes it worth buying?

AFAIK no, it just collects these supplements in one volume.

 Alpharius wrote:
So...if I already own the Titandeath, Doom of Molech, Shadow and Iron, The Defence of Ryza, and Crucible of Retribution supplements, is there anything in the upcoming "Campaign Compendium" that makes it worth buying?

The only thing "new" us an update to the custom legio rules from the ryza book.

 Crablezworth wrote:


The only thing "new" us an update to the custom legio rules from the ryza book.

Anything notable they've updated in that regard? I've already got Defence of Ryza and the previous White Dwarf version of the crusade rules, and not spending out a third time.

Let me guess, Engines of War is now restricted to swapping in only Warlord titans?

SamusDrake wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:


The only thing "new" us an update to the custom legio rules from the ryza book.

Anything notable they've updated in that regard? I've already got Defence of Ryza and the previous White Dwarf version of the crusade rules, and not spending out a third time.

Let me guess, Engines of War is now restricted to swapping in only Warlord titans?

Goonhammer has a decent review but basically they changed traits into majoris and minoris, but the ones they designated as either is a bit baffling, like the made master of defense minoris but like loci of cause majoris and they're not even on the same planet in terms of power level. They also made it so a specific traitor trait allows you to use corrupted titan rules as well, which is a terrible idea, even though I acknowledge nothing was preventing any traitor player from playing both a custom legio and using corrupted titans beforehand, so I guess it limits it, I would have just thought one or the other for sanity's sake. There are some good chanfes, macro charges lost the +1S, which is probably fair.