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What is a "Charge In Stop Distance" ?

It looks like it 1/2" long.

 axisofentropy wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:

Spoiler:

This should answer some questions we had regarding the dice and gauche last week

Via Miniwars

wow that raises more questions than answers. Pinned and Gone to Ground are not in the core rules we've seen, and Deep Strike isn't a condition anymore.

We did see in the Cities of Death article where a unit's cover bonus from being in a ruin is increased from a +1 to their Armour Save to +2 if they don't move. This could potentially be 'Gone to Ground' and the marker is a reminder that the unit didn't move.

I'm even less of a fan after this dread pic.

CaptainSomas wrote:
According to the Warhammer fest videos, DG seem to have faired well against the Primadonna marines at the demo tables.

So they say. Maybe I am wrong - not everything is revealed - but I am struggling to see it.
Its possible however people are playing on very small tables (which limit movement options) and not prioritising fire because its all new and people just want to have fun.

As I see it though you just target the Chaos Lord as a high priority and pick up the drone with someone (I'd go with one of your characters) to ensure he doesn't jump on your Hellblasters. Once the lord is dead (one rapid fire hellblaster volley plus inceptors is enough) there isn't much else in the army with any punch (unless the psychic abilities are considerably better than Smite, or the other Nurgle character is an equally effective beat stick).

 pizzaguardian wrote:
What is a "Charge In Stop Distance" ?

It looks like it 1/2" long.

Okay so this is very, very gamey and I was kinda shocked when they revealed that doing this in age of Sigmar is an intentional gameplay feature rather than a RAW manipulation discovered by pedants, but...

Basically if you're touching an enemy, you can't pile in anymore. But if you're slightly further away you can pile right around the other side of that model if you like as long as it's only three inches.

So, it's optimal to stop charging or piling in half an inch away so you can maximise the number of models touching the enemy, because you can still attack at that range but it leaves you the option of repositioning later.

Of course this would be a lot less micromanagey if they had just made it so you can use your pile in move regardless of base contact so long as more of your models touched the enemy unit than before. Think of this as the replacement to the now defunct obsessively spacing people perfectly in exactly 2 inch formation so that you minimise the impact of blast templates.

 Rippy wrote:
What a time to be a Death Guard player!
Rules look solid, models look solid, fluff book about DG invading Ultramar, all but confirmed full new plastic kits for everything DG.
I am feeling more disgustingly resilient than when I went to bed last night!!!

Any idea on army construction yet in the 8th edition? So, if you take a Death Guard Battalion detachment, and you get a bunch of stuff and +3 free command points for 6 total. Can you now add another detachment from main Chaos Space Marines rules, or Chaos Daemons, or a Renegade Knight as a Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, or whatever, to the army and keep it battle forged/legal? What are the limitations? Are there any? What does battle forged even mean in the 8th edition?

Thanks.

 Therion wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
What a time to be a Death Guard player!
Rules look solid, models look solid, fluff book about DG invading Ultramar, all but confirmed full new plastic kits for everything DG.
I am feeling more disgustingly resilient than when I went to bed last night!!!

Any idea on army construction yet in the 8th edition? So, if you take a Death Guard Battalion detachment, and you get a bunch of stuff and +3 free command points for 6 total. Can you now add another detachment from main Chaos Space Marines rules, or Chaos Daemons, or a Renegade Knight as a Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, or whatever, to the army and keep it battle forged/legal? What are the limitations? Are there any? What does battle forged even mean in the 8th edition?

Thanks.

You just keep picking/filling detachments up to the points limit or power level.

 Therion wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
What a time to be a Death Guard player!
Rules look solid, models look solid, fluff book about DG invading Ultramar, all but confirmed full new plastic kits for everything DG.
I am feeling more disgustingly resilient than when I went to bed last night!!!

Any idea on army construction yet in the 8th edition? So, if you take a Death Guard Battalion detachment, and you get a bunch of stuff and +3 free command points for 6 total. Can you now add another detachment from main Chaos Space Marines rules, or Chaos Daemons, or a Renegade Knight as a Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, or whatever, to the army and keep it battle forged/legal? What are the limitations? Are there any? What does battle forged even mean in the 8th edition?

Thanks.

The short version is you can make nearly anything bound and grab a few command points so long as you're prepared to take an HQ tax. There are detachments for mandatory elites, fast attack and heavy support. There are superheavy only detachments. There are flyer only detachments.

If you really want to have no HQ in your army (and aren't taking a pure Lord of War list) then you can just give up all your command points to achieve it.

Wow it kinda looks like a Dreadnought and a Sentinel had a baby..

Seriously though, the lines of the new dreadnought remind me of the original dreads..
Really.. a lot of the things we've seen have reminded me of 2nd ed or the little I know of RT.. Really like where all of this is headed.

Tyel wrote:


As I see it though you just target the Chaos Lord as a high priority and pick up the drone with someone (I'd go with one of your characters) to ensure he doesn't jump on your Hellblasters. Once the lord is dead (one rapid fire hellblaster volley plus inceptors is enough) there isn't much else in the army with any punch (unless the psychic abilities are considerably better than Smite, or the other Nurgle character is an equally effective beat stick).

You can't target the lord unless he's the closest target, so with some chumps moving in front of him and the table being so small, it is probably not terribly difficult to get him into melee.

Tyel wrote:

CaptainSomas wrote:
According to the Warhammer fest videos, DG seem to have faired well against the Primadonna marines at the demo tables.

So they say. Maybe I am wrong - not everything is revealed - but I am struggling to see it.
Its possible however people are playing on very small tables (which limit movement options) and not prioritising fire because its all new and people just want to have fun.

As I see it though you just target the Chaos Lord as a high priority and pick up the drone with someone (I'd go with one of your characters) to ensure he doesn't jump on your Hellblasters. Once the lord is dead (one rapid fire hellblaster volley plus inceptors is enough) there isn't much else in the army with any punch (unless the psychic abilities are considerably better than Smite, or the other Nurgle character is an equally effective beat stick).

You have to go through 20 poxwalkers and 10 plague marines to do that though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

changemod wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:
What is a "Charge In Stop Distance" ?

It looks like it 1/2" long.

Okay so this is very, very gamey and I was kinda shocked when they revealed that doing this in age of Sigmar is an intentional gameplay feature rather than a RAW manipulation discovered by pedants, but...

Basically if you're touching an enemy, you can't pile in anymore. But if you're slightly further away you can pile right around the other side of that model if you like as long as it's only three inches.

So, it's optimal to stop charging or piling in half an inch away so you can maximise the number of models touching the enemy, because you can still attack at that range but it leaves you the option of repositioning later.

Of course this would be a lot less micromanagey if they had just made it so you can use your pile in move regardless of base contact so long as more of your models touched the enemy unit than before. Think of this as the replacement to the now defunct obsessively spacing people perfectly in exactly 2 inch formation so that you minimise the impact of blast templates.

This is one of the best mechanics in Sigmar because it's a decision. You don't just ALWAYS end not in base contact because of alternating activations. You have to make the choice unit by unit to give yourself the opportunity to maximize the benefit of your pile-in while simultaneously denying your opponent a similar advantage in retaliation(as they can't pile in if you trap them in base contact. It is a brilliant, nuanced mechanic that is the heart and soul of competitive sigmar. The tricks you can do with that half inch are mind-bogglingly awesome.

That said...chargers always strike first negate a lot of the interesting parts of it so...meh?

Hmm. Lot of hate for the new Dread. I like it though. I'm not ordering 4 of them or anything, but I like it.

ERJAK wrote:

changemod wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:
What is a "Charge In Stop Distance" ?

It looks like it 1/2" long.

Okay so this is very, very gamey and I was kinda shocked when they revealed that doing this in age of Sigmar is an intentional gameplay feature rather than a RAW manipulation discovered by pedants, but...

Basically if you're touching an enemy, you can't pile in anymore. But if you're slightly further away you can pile right around the other side of that model if you like as long as it's only three inches.

So, it's optimal to stop charging or piling in half an inch away so you can maximise the number of models touching the enemy, because you can still attack at that range but it leaves you the option of repositioning later.

Of course this would be a lot less micromanagey if they had just made it so you can use your pile in move regardless of base contact so long as more of your models touched the enemy unit than before. Think of this as the replacement to the now defunct obsessively spacing people perfectly in exactly 2 inch formation so that you minimise the impact of blast templates.

This is one of the best mechanics in Sigmar because it's a decision. You don't just ALWAYS end not in base contact because of alternating activations. You have to make the choice unit by unit to give yourself the opportunity to maximize the benefit of your pile-in while simultaneously denying your opponent a similar advantage in retaliation(as they can't pile in if you trap them in base contact. It is a brilliant, nuanced mechanic that is the heart and soul of competitive sigmar. The tricks you can do with that half inch are mind-bogglingly awesome.

That said...chargers always strike first negate a lot of the interesting parts of it so...meh?

You can upsell it however you like, but you can't make it not gamey and micromanagement based. Indeed, you just made it sound even more painfully micromanagement based than I'd previously imagined- Spacing for blast avoidance wasn't anywhere near that bad.

I didn't see this said yet, but did anyone notice that the starter set datasheet for the Hellblaster squad has it at power 12 whereas the leak from the rulebook has them at power 10?

And the Plasma Incinerators in the rule book don't have Supercharge?

Old pic perhaps?

I'm cool with the dread. On the other hand, I'm not a fan of any aspect of the game relating to 1/2" differences in position being important. That sounds like a nightmare, particularly if you have a cool board and not just a realm of battle with some ruin walls sticking up out of them.

changemod wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

changemod wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:
What is a "Charge In Stop Distance" ?

It looks like it 1/2" long.

Okay so this is very, very gamey and I was kinda shocked when they revealed that doing this in age of Sigmar is an intentional gameplay feature rather than a RAW manipulation discovered by pedants, but...

Basically if you're touching an enemy, you can't pile in anymore. But if you're slightly further away you can pile right around the other side of that model if you like as long as it's only three inches.

So, it's optimal to stop charging or piling in half an inch away so you can maximise the number of models touching the enemy, because you can still attack at that range but it leaves you the option of repositioning later.

Of course this would be a lot less micromanagey if they had just made it so you can use your pile in move regardless of base contact so long as more of your models touched the enemy unit than before. Think of this as the replacement to the now defunct obsessively spacing people perfectly in exactly 2 inch formation so that you minimise the impact of blast templates.

This is one of the best mechanics in Sigmar because it's a decision. You don't just ALWAYS end not in base contact because of alternating activations. You have to make the choice unit by unit to give yourself the opportunity to maximize the benefit of your pile-in while simultaneously denying your opponent a similar advantage in retaliation(as they can't pile in if you trap them in base contact. It is a brilliant, nuanced mechanic that is the heart and soul of competitive sigmar. The tricks you can do with that half inch are mind-bogglingly awesome.

That said...chargers always strike first negate a lot of the interesting parts of it so...meh?

You can upsell it however you like, but you can't make it not gamey and micromanagement based. Indeed, you just made it sound even more painfully micromanagement based than I'd previously imagined- Spacing for blast avoidance wasn't anywhere near that bad.

You've already made up your mind on it so whatever. I'll just have to take solace in having a more enjoyable experience than you in both game systems. Tactical play is fun, the charge mechanic offers tactical play, so I have fun with it. Sorry you don't.

Hey, Go to Ground still exists. I didn't expect that. Neat.

 Rippy wrote:
I really wouldn't be surprised if Bjorn gets a new dread model.

I would. Bjorn has a plastic model. I can't see them doing another one any time soon.

I think the power levels in the leak were directly linked to the costs of the units since they were mostly pre determined. For the other sheets they are varied and so will have different power levels.

 Fenris-77 wrote:
Hmm. Lot of hate for the new Dread. I like it though. I'm not ordering 4 of them or anything, but I like it.

It,s new, therefore gak.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fallenbourne wrote:
I didn't see this said yet, but did anyone notice that the starter set datasheet for the Hellblaster squad has it at power 12 whereas the leak from the rulebook has them at power 10?

And the Plasma Incinerators in the rule book don't have Supercharge?

Old pic perhaps?

I can't speak for power levels since I don,t have both images in front of me, but I do recall that he first image included the Overcharge option not as a seperate stat line but in the weapon rules in the italic text.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:
Hmm. Lot of hate for the new Dread. I like it though. I'm not ordering 4 of them or anything, but I like it.

It,s new, therefore gak.

Listen, I'm not so blind as to not see my own bias, so let me correct you for accuracy:

It's tied to the new, Primarch power hour mark 2, upend everything we know about the setting then loudly declare it's amazing lore.

Therefore it's gak.

I'm not going to be able to get behind things tied to that new lore for a long, long time. It's not the setting we all grew up with, and honestly it seems every time a Primarch is brought in to things it cheapens everything nearby via a black hole of superficial hype.

Now I have some criticisms I'd absolutely be voicing anyhow: Primaris marines -are- awkward because of their non-matching scale, no matter how nice their armour looks or if you ignore the lore behind them. The new dread -does- have limbs that don't fit well to the design of it's torso when compared to other dreadnought designs.

But yup, I'm gonna be critical first and foremost here. Even if I do have the option of not buying any of this, marketing and players I go against who like this stuff will put it where I can't ignore it anyhow. No point denying he unavoidable.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Looks like a Dragon Battlemech...

More like a Uziel IMHO

changemod wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:
Hmm. Lot of hate for the new Dread. I like it though. I'm not ordering 4 of them or anything, but I like it.

It,s new, therefore gak.

Listen, I'm not so blind as to not see my own bias, so let me correct you for accuracy:

It's tied to the new, Primarch power hour mark 2, upend everything we know about the setting then loudly declare it's amazing lore.

Therefore it's gak.

I'm not going to be able to get behind things tied to that new lore for a long, long time. It's not the setting we all grew up with, and honestly it seems every time a Primarch is brought in to things it cheapens everything nearby via a black hole of superficial hype.

Now I have some criticisms I'd absolutely be voicing anyhow: Primaris marines -are- awkward because of their non-matching scale, no matter how nice their armour looks or if you ignore the lore behind them. The new dread -does- have limbs that don't fit well to the design of it's torso when compared to other dreadnought designs.

But yup, I'm gonna be critical first and foremost here. Even if I do have the option of not buying any of this, marketing and players I go against who like this stuff will put it where I can't ignore it anyhow. No point denying he unavoidable.

I was making a joke aout how the internet basically hates everything new for a while then simmers down later.

That said, it's not a new design as Jes made the sketch this was based off of years ago, but it is being rolled out with the Primaris

That siad, I doubt you actually have to be a Primaris to have one. Some lucky chapter vets who were bound for Dreadnout duty likely got them so that they could lead the new Primaris Chapters through their centuries of experiance.

Hell as far as I,m concerned he Imperium just decided that the regular Dreadnought needed better armour and the ability to walkup stairs and hills without falling down.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

I was making a joke aout how the internet basically hates everything new for a while then simmers down later.

I know, but there's a deeper underlying issue to it this time around. There's a "It's X so it's automatically bad" bias around all primaris related stuff that's not newness oriented.

And really, better to be open about these kinds of things to understand the opinions of both others and ourselves.

changemod wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

I was making a joke aout how the internet basically hates everything new for a while then simmers down later.

I know, but there's a deeper underlying issue to it this time around. There's a "It's X so it's automatically bad" bias around all primaris related stuff that's not newness oriented.

And really, better to be open about these kinds of things to understand the opinions of both others and ourselves.

I'll stick with be full of weapons grade snark.

That said, there is a lot of knee jerking going around. Like the thread in the General about comparing Rubrics and Inceptors, two completely different kinds of units, based solely on their PLs.

Mind you if 1PL=20 points, then a Inceptor with weapons is almost two Rubrics with Inferno Bolters in cost. And PL adds in wargear options you may not take via the avg causing the cost of the unit to be higher when calculated via power than in points.

Also general calling everything old "worthless" in comparison to the new stuff.

Considering the domination of Death Guard at Warhammer Fest over the Primaris Ultramarines, it's safe to say that just because it,s new it,s not automatically the best.

Hmm, seems distorted in upload will redo, and clean up.

I can totally see with people don't like this new dreadnought type, even If I personally like it, not so much the chicken legs.

What I can't understand is how people in general loves the Contemptor model dreadnought. Is like a pear, is so... generic sci-fi . It don't match Space Marines or Imperium aesthetics. The Leviathan one is a good upgrade, I like my dreadnoughts to be boxy.
Maybe I'm biased because I really really dislike the small head dreadnoughts. To me they all look stupid. I always use the tomb plate. It is suppose to be a mechanized-tomb of destruction, not a tiny marine inside a giant suit, and thats what it looks to me with the tiny marine head.
But I'll drop the dreadnought aesthetic discussion here.

 kestral wrote:
Hey, Go to Ground still exists. I didn't expect that. Neat.

I don't see that anywhere?

Daedalus81 wrote:

 kestral wrote:
Hey, Go to Ground still exists. I didn't expect that. Neat.

I don't see that anywhere?

So whilemmulling over the points costs on the new Primaris I actually thought of something: 13 point Tacticals may be the cost of the model without any wargear. We know the points lists for the Primaris guys show both models and their weapons pointed seperately, meaning that an Inceptor is 53 points with his guns rather than the 39 the costs without anything.

So Tacticals may be 13 points base but then you have to add points based on their load outs (example of a possible load out: +0 for a Bolt Pistol and Grenades, +2 for the Bolter, ect, ect).

Also correction to an earlier post, an Inceptor is actually well over the cost of 2 Rubirics with Inferno Bolters as they should be around 24ppm when equipped with guns.