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Posted By Maxstreel on 03/27/2007 10:24 AM

I visit my local GW and FLGS at times and will buy based on how I'm treated. Mind you, I'm the one 30+ year old guy that actually walks in looking like I've just left a corporate management meeting. I'm not some teenage punk wearing a Misfits t-shirt with hair in his eyes and enough piercing to set off the airport metal detectors while carrying his skateboard. Even then, I get mumbling or super-pushy salespeople, lack of selection, and downright rudeness. I'm the one that walked in with money in my pocket! Sell me something that isn't a bad attitude. 

Sir, I doubt anyone tries to sell you a Bad Attitude, it's quite obvious you already own one.

Mikhaila, it may be that his only experience with FLGSs are badly-run stores with unprofessional staff.

Posted By Maxstreel on 03/27/2007 10:24 AM

I visit my local GW and FLGS at times and will buy based on how I'm treated. Mind you, I'm the one 30+ year old guy that actually walks in looking like I've just left a corporate management meeting. I'm not some teenage punk wearing a Misfits t-shirt with hair in his eyes and enough piercing to set off the airport metal detectors while carrying his skateboard. Even then, I get mumbling or super-pushy salespeople, lack of selection, and downright rudeness. I'm the one that walked in with money in my pocket! Sell me something that isn't a bad attitude.

As a businessman, one might imagine that the dificulties of running a small business might be understandable.  Even without an economics degree, it is clear that a B+M store location has higher overhead (and thus, higher markup is needed to remain profitable) when compared to an internet warehouse reseller.  Of course, the main way to offset this is by adding value.  Added value include (and are not limited to) provision of a gaming area, setting up leagues, providing a place to meet like-minded gamers etc. 

Unfortunately, the world is filled with short-sighted individuals feel that these are free services which they are entitled to.  Who regularly use these "services" and exhort others to buy product elsewhere - because it would be stupid to spend more money in support of their gaming venue.

Small wonder that the FLGS are struggling with that kind of prevalent attitude.

 

<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="4" width="100%" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td class="afpostbody" colspan="2">Mikhaila, it may be that his only experience with FLGSs are badly-run stores with unprofessional staff.</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="afpostattach" colspan="2"></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="afpostsig" colspan="2"></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="afposteditdate" align="right" colspan="2"></td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

Aye, agreed. I should have put a smiley face or something on that one. I was weak and couldn't help responding to that sentence like it was a straight line.)

I took a trip around Philadelphia a year ago, visiting a lot of game and comic shops that I hadn't been to in years. Since I had grown a beard, got a bit grayer, and put on 10 pounds, I looked different than I had when I saw the owners at retailer meetings. Most of the guys didn't recognize me when I walked in, and treated me like a regular customer.

Several didn't say a word as I went in. Two totally ignored me, even when I said hi. One ass actually laughed in my face when I asked him a question about a game, and went back to eating his sandwhich. The other half greeted me when I came in, smiled, started up a conversation, and generally made me feel happy that I was there.

Different shops, different attitudes. The good ones survive, the bad ones get sucked into the warp.

Though my post may have been misread or my intention unclear, I respectfully disagree with Mikhaila's post about my bad attitude. In fact, Mikhaila, from the professional attitude of your previous posts, I would like very much to have an FLGS with great service as yours seems to imply!

I speak as a consumer who would like great service and great prices. I'm sure many consumers feel the same way. If I can't receive it from one place, then I will look elsewhere.

I'm just one gamer amongst thousands who feels that my money speaks louder than any of my words. I've been a customer of many different FLGS for 26 years, most of them comic book/game stores. I've seen some great ones and unfortunately lately some not so great ones. I spend approximately $200 to $350 monthly on comics, games, toy soldiers, etc. from different local places and online I visit as I truly enjoy the hobby.

I lament that BWbits will be forced to change at what seems to be an unimaginative idea by GW.

Perhaps I was too wordy or derogatory, and for that I apologize. But to simply imply I have a bad attitude is simply too quick and easy of a judgement.

My .02.

Posted By Maxstreel on 03/27/2007 10:24 AM

 

If GW's intent was to have me buy from a B&M store, it didn't work. If their intent was to force me to order from their online site or visit their Bunker here in Grapevine Mills TX, it didn't work. 

 

So what is your point exactly? This was a method to cut down on competition. By your own statement (ordering now while can) it will be effective as it drives away competition.

If you are still buying GW products, where are you buying them?

Posted By jfrazell on 03/27/2007 11:15 AM

Posted By Maxstreel on 03/27/2007 10:24 AM

 

If GW's intent was to have me buy from a B&M store, it didn't work. If their intent was to force me to order from their online site or visit their Bunker here in Grapevine Mills TX, it didn't work. 

 

So what is your point exactly? This was a method to cut down on competition. By your own statement (ordering now while can) it will be effective as it drives away competition.

If you are still buying GW products, where are you buying them?

I believe you got stuck on the wrong part of his post.. he explaines who gets his business very clearly.. it depends on who gives him the best service.. reread his reply and quit trying to be so controvercial.

I used to work in a games store a long time ago. We sold computer games (they were on cassettes back then) and board games like Avalon Hill, etc, plus RPG stuff. We were near the original, now-closed GW shop in Dalling Road Hammersmith.

Anyway, we always treated our customers well because we were nicely brought up middle-class boys and it paid our wages.

That said, I've been in many a GW shop since and particularly the last few years, and the staff have always been helpful and polite. A little bit too helpful sometimes, if you know what I mean. They sometimes come over as a little bit "frothy.' And a little bit sad, though not much sadder than me, I suppose. That kind of sadness is what we all know playing with our little soldiers unless we are still under 15, so let's not cast any aspersions. They train their staff well, in my opinion.

Assuming I've got an audience left by this time I'll get to the point of my post.

GW's key strength is it provides a complete hobby service; shops where you can buy rules, figures, paint and modelling stuff, get advice, play games, join in tournaments and meet like-minded people. Their huge retail chain is undoubtedly a millstone around their neck but at the same time it's a key to their success.

GW US does not have the retail support that the UK does, because the US is a huge country and covering it with stores is going to be a long job, if it can ever be done. So they need to recruit the FLGs as a kind of auxiliary like the Roman Legions had their archers and light troops to supplement the heavy boys.

Accordingly, GW US does not like people hurting their allied FLGSs (that's their job if it has to be done.) And that's why they stamp on people like BWB.

Posted By Rygoth on 03/26/2007 9:45 PM
Hibz, don't you think you're being a little ignorant? Enron screwed the people, huh, kinda like GW. BW on the other hand helps the people and yet you support slapping them down. As long as we're bringing up way OTT examples to use, why not pose BW Bitz as the American Revolutionaries fighting against the unjust rules of the Brit oppressors for Pete's sake. It's sad that I can say the last time I heard drivel as inane as yours was reading Torreadors comments in the DA thread. Can both of you please take your verbal diarhea over to Warseer where you can fit in with the other GW fanbois?

I think you read my post and had a kneejerk reaction without going over what I was saying.

My point is that GW has a rule about selling on the internet that BW Bits was breaking. If you believe they should be excused from following the rules, then you would also believe the Enron execs are not crooks, or people who commit a felony coming to America should not be deported or prosecuted.

I'm not siding with anyone on this issue, just passing on what I understand to be going on. I believe we should follow rules and laws, for an orderly society. Are there bad laws? Yes, and thats what courts and legislators are for.

I apologize for argueing by analogy.

And its spelled fanboys.

Your analogy still fails. BWB did not commit a felony, nor did they attempt to steal from their investors.

If you insist on a 'crime' analogy, Robin Hood would be more appropriate.



I do however see your point. BWB was operating outside of GWs self-imposed rule structure. GW is now forcing BWB to abide by it's rules, just as all other retailers must do. GW has every right to do this as it is their product. BWB has every right to ignore them, but only if they discontinue selling GW product.

If BWB wants to continue to sell GW product, they must conform to GW's rules, it's really that simple.

More like Bill Clinton's statement, "I did not have sex with that woman..." is a better analogy to this situation - "Why, yes, we have a B&M. Can we have our beefy discount please?

Hmmm.Interesting stuff from mikhaila, cheers for that.
I buy Games Workshop stuff from GW in dublin usually, and my D'n'D stuff from a comic store. there is a gaming store, but I don't really like it. Not 100% sure why- all my friends love it, but I think I just prefer a polite but relatively standoffish salesperson. (Could be an Irish thing, we're not mad on the "hard sell")
But this is all interesting.
I would like to see GW do well financhially personally.
I want my hobby to stick around. So many games companies flourish and crash, and GW seem to hang around. That's good for me.

Posted By General Hobbs on 03/27/2007 1:14 PM

My point is that GW has a rule about selling on the internet that BW Bits was breaking. If you believe they should be excused from following the rules, then you would also believe the Enron execs are not crooks, or people who commit a felony coming to America should not be deported or prosecuted.

I happen to believe that BWBits should be excused from following rules that have absolutely no relation to the laws of the land.  Nor are they committing a felony when they act as a secondary retailer.  GW's rules are not laws that must be followed, unlike the laws that the Enron excecs broke.  In fact, GW's rules are quite reminiscent of the anti-competitive behaviour that's supposed to be illegal.

Posted By mikhaila on 03/27/2007 11:01 AM

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Different shops, different attitudes. The good ones survive, the bad ones get sucked into the warp.

its a shame when it happens, but when a store is staffed in such a way, they get what they deserve.

True dat.
Hire 'non jerks' to work in your store. It goes a long way towards keeping the doors open.
Of course if you're not running the place lis a business you won't make it either.

just a question did they ever get there stuff from gw because keshers post seems to imply that they are Opening an account...just wondering is he a liar or are you an friken idiot?

Dude!  Punctuation, Syntax and Grammar are your friends.  Use them!  While not all of us went to a finishing school, we do have a hard time reading "AIM-speak".

So, Zubbie, Hellfury, et al, want to open up an OT Zone Hobby Shop?

Screw GW... BWB invented a niche that did not previously exist. Carved out a market of their own even. Now because BWB does not have the means to defend themselves legally they must bow to the bully.. I say shame on GW. I hope they crash and burn.

Posted By beefHeart on 03/29/2007 11:47 AM
Now because BWB does not have the means to defend themselves legally they must bow to the bully.

Did they try to pay for legal services with money orders?

Posted By Buoyancy on 03/27/2007 4:29 PM

Posted By General Hobbs on 03/27/2007 1:14 PM

My point is that GW has a rule about selling on the internet that BW Bits was breaking. If you believe they should be excused from following the rules, then you would also believe the Enron execs are not crooks, or people who commit a felony coming to America should not be deported or prosecuted.

I happen to believe that BWBits should be excused from following rules that have absolutely no relation to the laws of the land.  Nor are they committing a felony when they act as a secondary retailer.  GW's rules are not laws that must be followed, unlike the laws that the Enron excecs broke.  In fact, GW's rules are quite reminiscent of the anti-competitive behaviour that's supposed to be illegal.

Where did you get your law degree from?

Posted By Bane Lord Tarturas on 03/29/2007 11:31 AM
just a question did they ever get there stuff from gw because keshers post seems to imply that they are Opening an account...just wondering is he a liar or are you an friken idiot?

Its my understanding that they started off getting product from GW, then from someplace else, and the problem with GW stems from 2 facts: 1 they used images of GW product illegally and 2. they were selling product online.

 

My guess is that if they could sell online without infringing on GW's IP then they could get away with it.

Posted By beefHeart on 03/29/2007 11:47 AM
Screw GW... BWB invented a niche that did not previously exist. Carved out a market of their own even. Now because BWB does not have the means to defend themselves legally they must bow to the bully.. I say shame on GW. I hope they crash and burn.

So GW is the bad guy for enforcing a policy designed to help out local BnM stores so people have a place to play at? Gotcha.

Posted By General Hobbs on 03/29/2007 3:32 PM

Posted By beefHeart on 03/29/2007 11:47 AM
Screw GW... BWB invented a niche that did not previously exist. Carved out a market of their own even. Now because BWB does not have the means to defend themselves legally they must bow to the bully.. I say shame on GW. I hope they crash and burn.

So GW is the bad guy for enforcing a policy designed to help out local BnM stores so people have a place to play at? Gotcha.

 Please...  pass me what you are smoking...

Posted By General Hobbs on 03/29/2007 3:32 PM

Posted By beefHeart on 03/29/2007 11:47 AM
Screw GW... BWB invented a niche that did not previously exist. Carved out a market of their own even. Now because BWB does not have the means to defend themselves legally they must bow to the bully.. I say shame on GW. I hope they crash and burn.

So GW is the bad guy for enforcing a policy designed to help out local BnM stores so people have a place to play at? Gotcha.

My FLGS/BnM doesn't break down plastic boxes and sell individual bitz.

Could you please post the address of your BnM so I can get in touch with them for the next time I need a few odd pieces off a sprue?

Really! Show me just how GW is helping out a majority of B&M stores with their policies, please!

Posted By Bane Lord Tarturas on 03/29/2007 11:31 AM
just a question did they ever get there stuff from gw because keshers post seems to imply that they are Opening an account...just wondering is he a liar or are you an friken idiot?

They had an account. Someone from GW became a bit suspicious and tried to find their store. When they drove down and found a warehouse, not a retail store, they were told their account was on hold/cancelled, unless they opened a B and M retail store.  They continued to get in GW product, but by having another party with a direct account order it for them.

The problem with their online site stemmed from the use of GW images,  the use of a shopping cart, and the discounting. These are things that GW stopped other sites from using/doing in the past.

I'm not quite sure about the breaking down of sprues, and the selling of individual bits, or if it violates some rule or not. No clue on that.

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Posted By Bane Lord Tarturas on 03/29/2007 11:31 AM
just a question did they ever get there stuff from gw because keshers post seems to imply that they are Opening an account...just wondering is he a liar or are you an friken idiot?

Its my understanding that they started off getting product from GW, then from someplace else, and the problem with GW stems from 2 facts: 1 they used images of GW product illegally and 2. they were selling product online.

 

My guess is that if they could sell online without infringing on GW's IP then they could get away with it.

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the ip thing is real ...but  the fraud thing is a rumor

the ip thing is real ...but  the fraud thing is a rumor

where are ya getting this from?

They had an account. Someone from GW became a bit suspicious and tried to find their store. When they drove down and found a warehouse, not a retail store, they were told their account was on hold/cancelled, unless they opened a B and M retail store.  They continued to get in GW product, but by having another party with a direct account order it for them.

The problem with their online site stemmed from the use of GW images,  the use of a shopping cart, and the discounting. These are things that GW stopped other sites from using/doing in the past.

I'm not quite sure about the breaking down of sprues, and the selling of individual bits, or if it violates some rule or not. No clue on that.

 

where are you getting this from..