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So even though the Main Rulebook gives Crisis suits Relentless, the Tau codex takes it away. Makes you wonder why they even put it in the main rulebook in the first place.

Ahh, more GW love for the Zenos.

yakface wrote:
I hope you're not moving and firing with those marker drones. Drones move as the suits they are controlled by and Tau Crisis suits cannot move and fire heavy weapons (that restriction is in the Tau Crisis suit rules), ergo marker drones also cannot move and fire heavy weapons.

I'm pretty sure that its their "Unit Type" and not "Movement Type" that is "As owner" making them Jump Infantry (Jet Pack) and thus relentless. I'm not sure the that the RAW causes the weapon restrictions on XV8s to transfer along with unit type as "Crisis Suit" is not a unit type. Also, it would just seem weird if stealth marker drones could move and fire but crisis ones could not.

lambadomy is correct.

The crisis suits (who have zero heavy weapons) cannot fire heavy weapons (that's nice) but drones aren't listed in the Tau Codex...and the drones get relentless in the new rules off the suits.

methoderik wrote:

Seamus O'Shank wrote:I figured the tank itself wouldn't have 33 shots

Fire Warriors can't shoot out of the Devilfish, I thought...?

Is this another question you know the answer to?

Obviously, I guess to me at least, I am talking about the Fish's S5 + the 12 disembarking, rapid firing Firewarriors.

Of course. Just wanted to clarify what you meant

I thought for a split second that there had been a FAQ that allowed FW to fire out of Devilfish.

Yes... I checked it to.. The drones can fire while moving due to jump packs. thanks all for checking that.

I've been following this thread rather intently and just want to thank the people who have offered help because it has realy helped me understand my army, thanks

Even though I won four, drew one, and lost one, it's my opinion that Tau are very difficult to win a tournament with.

All of my wins were small. I lost to rhino spam dark angels (that player won the tournament), and it was a big loss.

Stupid technicality, I know, but markerlights cannot raise BS above 5, per Tau codex RAW. Not a big deal in 4th, but it's an interesting limitation in 5th.

Rmeju

Yeah but markerlights can still remove cover saves...a nasty piece of work in it's own right.

Funnily enough, I don't have any in my army...

I have recently played my tau in 2 fifth edition tournaments and have come to one resounding conclusion about their winnability: The tau troops can not hold objectives.

I play a hybrid list. Crisis teams, devilfish mounted firewarriors, kroot, hammerheads and broadsides. I hit my opponent hard with everything at once. When I start in on a unit I don't stop until it is destroyed or I have run out of stuff to fire. But every game I have lost has come down to one simply fact: when my opponent wants to push me off of objectives they can do so at will. I have had firewarriors in cover sitting on objectives. My opponents just use weight of fire to beat their toughness 3, 4+ saves. I have had firewarriors in devilfish sitting on objectives. The ability to hit the rear armor means it gets assaulted and destroyed too easily then the firewarriors are exposed again. Also the rule that you can assault the transported unit after you destroy their vehical hurts bad. Too many times has a meltagun gotten inside the 12" disruption pod area of protection to see the fish get destoyed and the firewarriors assaulted. Kroot are almost a joke for holding abjectives. They are good the turn they outflank and assault but after that they die in droves. If the objective is not in the woods the kroot have no chance of holding on to it, and if my opponent has any flamers then kroot are a waste of points.

Tau were made for fourth edition. All their special rules were based off that ruleset. Without it they are seriously hurting and are at a major disadvantage against every army book that has come out for fifth edition. The main problem is that they are too expensive for what they do on the battle field in fifth edition. Firewarriors need to come with gernades standard. The base devilfish needs its cost cut in half (upgrades are fairly priced, except for the disruption pods which needs to be about 15 points). The kroot need to have the stealth and move through cover special rules. Pathfinders need to be troops and the manditory devilfish removed. Gundrones need to be troops, but not count as troop choices (like demons in CSM). Vespids need 2 attacks base. These are the bare minimum that is needed to make them competitive in fifth editon, and more than likely they would still lose to the top tier armies of Orks and new SM. I am fearful of what a new IG, Necron, and Dark Eldar are going to do to current Tau once they get a fifth edition revamp to bing those inline.

I agree that FWs suck at holding objectives, that's why I always try to grab objectives late in the game. Use your firepower to clear any or most of the enemy troops in the vicinity of the objective and then fly in with your devilfish mounted FWs on turn four or five to claim. If there are still some enemy troops claiming the objective use a squad of XV8s with TL-flamers to clear the remains out. And if you don't think that's enough unload your FWs and rapid fire into the enemy troops. This would probably require you to fly in on turn four since you would probably have to move your FWs within 3'' after you killed of the remaining enemy troops.

HEy all....
one way to make sure your fire warriors can hold objectives. Do as OniGemba says, but add one thing. I have one eveygame I have played this tatics. BUT the whole army in reserve.

yes you come in piece mail. but you do not give those assault armies the knowledge where you going to be so they can not mass on one objective. keep them guessing. deep strike crisses units around objective late in the game and clean it up and run a fish with fw to take it. but Zacarius. I agree with all you say that the tau need, but untill then. This thread has shown to me you need to play traitor tau with Farsight and play drop Tau with mech tau fw

After half a dozen games of 5th with both Farsight and a mech tau army, I decided to go back to Eldar. There I can play the same army I played in 4th Ed with my Tau.

If I wanted to castle in a corner and take mediocre troops in order to take objectives, I'd play Imperial Guard.

Obviously, some players have been able to compete in a 5th edition tourney, but I'm not one of them. If the rules don't let me play the army I want to play, I either don't play or choose an army that does let me play that way.

I don't know what you were expecting leaving firewarriors in cover to hold an objective. We're not guard, we can't afford to leave anything as exposed as that.

*I* never said I was exclusively putting FCW in cover to hold an objective. But you need to capture those objectives somehow.

I've sat the FCW in 'fishs in my mech lists. All it means is I move around and fire 4 shots at 24" until my fish go down.

Given the choice between shooting at my vehicles and shooting at my 3 crisis suits that can almost always be shot at, my opponents simply take out the crisis suits and then move on to the vehicles.

One can't play the VP denial game one could in 4th. If I am only shooting 12-20 shots in a turn I'm not going to win.

Dude, I hate to say I agree with you in soms ways. I now have a Eldar Army. I wish the old days of the Tau Empire was able to be played. Tau Gun Lines and Visped was a 80% winner. Now tau at this level can not get more of a 50%. Next week I am taking it to tournement. We will see how I do.

The game has changed and *I* have adapted by moving on to a new army. I always relied on soft scores to make me competitive in tournies, but I have not been able to win a game without deploying a gun line and keeping my vehicles as far away from the board edge as possible. That's simply not the way I want to play.

When there's a good consensus on how to play Tau at a competitive tourney, let me know. I'd be willing to put my ego aside in order to learn, but I'm not seeing anything too practical on the boards.