Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

H.B.M.C. wrote:But worth a whole book?

Special Weapon Dev Squads and extra Librarians =/= new Codex worthy.

Blood claws wolf priests =/= new codex. If dawn of war 2 can somehow be taken literally the commanders would be sporting lost tech teleporters, the squad sizes would all be below minimum, furioso dreads would be commonplace, and scout shotguns would be fantastic. I don't think they deserve their own full book. A small piece in chapter approved or a larger one in a divergent chapters book, but just like the space wolves they are a "non codex chapter" about as much as any space marine army can be. That being not much, and certainly not enough to justify a full release before actual chapters of marines that are so divergent that they actually aren't even marines, but instead are different fething armies from different races. Especially when many of those races are functionally broken in the game itself and sport player bases orders of magnitude larger then "color" marines.

terminus wrote:
If by "die" you mean "never be able to return to 40K because they can't stomach an inferior rules set", then yes, it's where they go to die.

Sure, if you like playing Magic: The Gatheringmachine. It has it's place, but which one is the better rulesset is highly debatable. I WILL give you that PP's writing is much tighter. But as far as the core rules I think it's more a matter of preferance. If you grew up loving Magic, then Gatheringmachine is the game for you.

ShumaGorath wrote:Blood claws wolf priests =/= new codex.

Troll less Shummy. It'll do wonders for your blood pressure. And there's a lot more to Wolves than Blood Claws and Wolf Priests, so, again, give it a rest.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Blood claws wolf priests =/= new codex.

Troll less Shummy. It'll do wonders for your blood pressure. And there's a lot more to Wolves than Blood Claws and Wolf Priests, so, again, give it a rest.

Everyone keeps telling me that, but I have that codex. I've read the fluff. I'm just not seeing it. It's just the regular book but with more chainswords and bloodclaws + really old. Having played against the book it doesn't play particularly differently then templars or blood angels. Just cheap scoring assault troops thrown at my face or deathstar supermen in their nice armor thrown at my face. In the fluff they are divergent, but then so are the raven guard. The best they've ever gotten is a single special character. The blood ravens are some sort of bastion of lost tech and psykers. They practically are still pre heresy sons of magnus. Their reason to be a standalone codex stands about as well as the wolves. Which isn't well at all. I would love to see them in a book featuring all the chapters, not a full codex slot. Those are meant to represent the "common" and major forces in the galaxy. Not a tiny fraction of one of those major forces. I wasn't a fan of grey nights in their own book, and I'm not a fan of the wolves now. There's still the adeptus mechanicus, practically half of the imperiums military might, almost totally unrepresented. The adeptus sororitas are forced into a halfdex with another army and some inquisitorial stuff. Too much marine ruins the variety of the setting in this game and it makes playing it unfun, since everyone plays the same supermen in space suits.

well its different
look at rune priests, 1 power where every other libbie has two. and its basically a weather creator.

i'd be happy as a clam if gw came out with another combo book (like eye of terror or armageddon) that gave a few different chapters 2-3 special characters and a few units for the more varied marine chapters. personally, i don't think any marine chapter needs it's own codex when you have other complete races that haven't been updated in 5+ years. just because you previously had a add-on codex means your army still deserves one. and that's coming from someone whose first and most memorable army was the (now neutered) blood angels!

You dont think they would do that for Planetstrike or maybe Space Hulk, do you? A combined codex/list like Armageddeon? Admittedly, GW is trending away from such a thing pretty hard, given the size of some of the recent codexesxs. They're tomes.
But it would be nice, and a way for them to release lists at a greater rate. If the didn't feth it up.

I honestly don't see why they couldn't implement the rules for most variant chapters with the special character thing
(when XXX is in your army, you may do YYY and ZZZ, and not WWW).

Or we could just get a cool Adeptus Astartes book again, with variant rules for each chapter, possibly a special character for each.

e.g. If you take Blood Ravens, you may only take 0-1 Terminators and 0-1 Assault Terminators, but also may take some "lesser Librarian" in place of a sergeant for some points cost.

I played back when they had the Iron Warriors 0-1 fast attack, 0-4 Heavy Support + Warsmith with Servo arm.

I miss the variant rules.

You know I really can't stand the whole spec char dynamic you just described. I'm not even sure why, but it just repulses me. HOwever, if it meant we could get more timely updates and codexes; I think I would go for it.

^^ I would PREFER to have either a small variant rules to the whole "If Vulkan is in your army, then..." stuff.

A 5 page entry per variant army, with all their special quirks and possibly a few army list entries would be perfect.
Make a book full of them (8-10). There is already plenty of fluff for most armies anyhow, they wouldn't have to write more.

And where might we find this fabled background? On the GW site? The WD?

There is quite a bit in the Index Astartes book - (which came from WD).

WD has quite a bit of fluff crammed into it over the years. Sorting through it all would take forever.

That was sarcasm, WD has been devoid of good background for quite some time and the IA articles have been made obsolete over time with the Horus Heresy novels and other publications.

The most they deserve to get are collecter edition minis that come with some ridiculously overpriced edition of the computer game.

Malika2 wrote:Nah Mr T is too busy selling cooking equipment on tv nowadays to be a Chapter master!

No, he's a nightelf mohawk, selling world of warcraft..

two_heads_talking wrote:

Malika2 wrote:Nah Mr T is too busy selling cooking equipment on tv nowadays to be a Chapter master!

No, he's a nightelf mohawk, selling world of warcraft..

That's funny, over here he's selling Snickers bars on TV. He is a busy chap...

And with that valuable insight, I have reached 350 posts! I thank you

BrookM wrote:That was sarcasm, WD has been devoid of good background for quite some time and the IA articles have been made obsolete over time with the Horus Heresy novels and other publications.

I dont know if obsolete would really be true. Didn't I read some place that GW came out an said tha tthe Black Library novels were stories in-univers, and not necessarily canon? I am pretty sure I saw that, someplace. Wish I could give a reference but hey...
If the BL books aren't canon (y'know, there's a concept in the 40k universe that's really just funny), they they are making anything obselete. Looking at some of those books, They sure as hell aren't being treated as canon in the game rules (yes, yes, yes. i know, I am now muddying the waters with the old Fluff vs. Rules debate, but that fails to come close to invalidating the point), what with Abnett's Guardsmen who can kill anything, Goto's absolute Rubbish, and others.
I think trying to hold BL products as anything close to canon except in the absolute broadest of senses, is just not going to hold water under any kind of inspection.

I think Codex: Dawn of War, timed with the release of the next expansion to DoW2 would be the best bet. All the characters from the game, in one book, plus any variant squads the game employed. Match this up with new models for all these folks and it would be a slam-dunk. Almost every player would have some interest in it.

I doubt Dawn of War 2 is going down the expansion road, rather I think it will go with other games and do the DLC road instead.

I'm hoping for that wonderful legions codex. I'll take a big ol' pass on Codex:Less red than red marines.

I am blown awatyu by this the marine in me likes it but wishes it would have come later the actual person in me thinks this is ridiculous ... I want every other codex to come out I want no more marine different chapters. At the point that you are making the blood ravens a full codex chapter than why not the Imperial Fists and the white scars and crimson fists and every other freaking codex chapter just cause they do things slightly differently. I understand the concept that this is a money grab based on popularity of the DoW game however then why is their not pre heresy armies and pre heresy codices due to that fact that those books you havent at all been the best selling GW has ever produced or anything *dripping with sarcasm*

I hope the Blood Ravens get a codex asap. I can only try to imagine the rage and disappointment of someone who plays DoW2 and then wants to stark table-top 40k only to discover that they have to play Ultramarines. oh the humanity.

I dont see any models being invalidated by a Blood Ravens codex, fluff aside all marine armies =marines.

the "divergent" chapters basically have 100-80% of the same exact units, just some of the units have a few special rules. Usually a chapters has 1-2 different unique units then some of their units are renamed and have either a slight modified statline, and or different equipment/transport options.

Going with the marine codex model of chapter specific heroes replacing the special rules for the army and adding a few statline changes or weapons options would pretty much be any space marine chapter.

Honestly You could pretty much do a 2 page codex for every marine chapter and just reference codex:ultramarines aka the standard marine codex and do each chapter justice.

that said even if there was a blood ravens codex released, all your models would prolly be valid without any modification done to them whatsoever.

I hate it when people say DA's are the closest to vanilla marines. We didnt use to be. We use to have more than just a few special characters and bikes/termys for troops...

Just like BA used to be.

Not to worry though. Once the new SW codex comes out, then they will be just like us Angels and have a few cool characters and pinch of spice to make it "feel" different.

Seriously why not just do a huge chapter approved book with all the SM chapters in a $50 book. Each chapter is different in its own way with unique rules and equipment but pulls from the same basic marine statline and equipment tabels, just like the old days.

Then have a Chaos version.

Id buy a $50 codex if it meant 4+ armies where getting updated at the same time.

Just sayin is all, Ill probably get booed now.

Alpharius wrote:

dienekes96 wrote:

jmurph wrote:You don't understand. Different colored marines are so different they need an entire codex to explain how different they are. Fighty black religious marines are *nothing* like fighty grey viking marines or fighty red marines (not to be confused with psyker red marines or red techmarines who work with every chapter). This is why we need so many different marine codexes. Because they can't just be reflected by paint schemes and unit selection.

Never let facts get in the way of a good rant. GW has released two "different chapter" Codicies in the last 8 years...BT in 2005 and DA in 2007. Yeah, they updated the main SM book every time they pumped a new version out, but expecting otherwise is imbecilic.

The actual problem is that GW is now releasing about two books a year for armies. But the other argument is much cooler.

I hate Space Marines! Yay!

Thank you dienekes96!

I'm thinking of having a new Censure Point system installed here at Dakka to help curb all the "Spase Marinez HURR!!1!!" crud that cycles through here way, way too often!

Oh... God Bless you BOTH


Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Blood claws wolf priests =/= new codex.

Troll less Shummy. It'll do wonders for your blood pressure. And there's a lot more to Wolves than Blood Claws and Wolf Priests, so, again, give it a rest.

Yes, let us count the ways...AGAIN

Exclusive Skills at the time SW came out: SW had true grit, counter assault, were not effected by overwhelming numbers in CC, and accute senses

Servitors for Techmarines, who BTW were IC

LF were 5 man squads that could split fire, the only unit in 3rd to do that till the Tau Codex came out.

Scouts were elites and were the only unit capable of coming off the back board.

Venerable Dreadnoughts, exclusive to SW till 4rth

Wolves

SW were the only SM with squad sizes above 10 (Blood Claws) untill BT came out.

Blood Claws had WS and BS 3, had rage and doubled attacks on charge

None of our Troops choices got Heavy Weapons, relatively unheard of in 3rd Ed.

SW terminators were customizable and couldn't deep strike

.

SW were the only SM army that could drop pod.

SW had a Leman Russ

.

Storm Caller Psychic power allowed SW to attack first in CC

No Command Squad

Veteran Sergeants (WG) were not upgardes but add on units to squads

More and cheaper CC weapon options for squads

ECT!

Again, SW were nothing like BA, BT, or SM back in 3rd. They were almost as divergent as 3rd Edition CSM. Again, if SW closely resemble SM now it is only because GW has been handing out traits, skills, and units to other armies that were at one time exclusively SW like Govenment Welfare checks.

MAN I CAN'T WAIT FOR BLOOD RAVENS TO COME OUT!!! (This is my first post by the way )
I just started collecting them cos I love their colour scheme and cos they are so cool on Dawn of War!!!

Commander Jimbob wrote:This is my first post by the way

No kidding.

Commander Jimbob wrote:MAN I CAN'T WAIT FOR BLOOD RAVENS TO COME OUT!!! (This is my first post by the way )
I just started collecting them cos I love their colour scheme and cos they are so cool on Dawn of War!!!

Hello Mr. Jimbob, welcome to Dakka.

I'll just point out that generally it is bad form to attempt to "bring back to life" an old thread if you don't have any really pertinent or useful information. There are posting guidelines that explain this and the rest of the forum rules, they are worth perusing.

With regards to the topic at hand it is extremely unlikely that we will see a codex release/similar for the Blood Ravens any time soon.

.... we might well see a chapter with Blood in their name but...anyway.

I'm sure people would be very happy to see our army and/or discuss fluff/army lists etc in the relevant boards.

Well, say the rumour is true you know know why they did away with traits. To make more marine codices and ignore DE, eldar, necrons and the inquisition (though I suspect they'll be on their way at the end of 5th to become useless in 6th).

All GW really need to do is stick a load of chapter tactics in there instead now to enable people to make variant marines. Personaly I liked the traits idea and had ben planning a scythes of the emperor army with the restricted terminators/dreads choices and less FoC options as drawbacks, and a nartheculum or however it is spelled in each squad. They need the gene seed back for rebuilding after all . Think a second option was special weapons instead of heavy weapons in tac squads too.

They should really just get off their profit margins and obsession to sell even more space marines and knock out the codices that NEED an update. They want variant marines just add chapter tactics for people to choose from in a white dwarf, someone will stick it up on the ent in a pdf for us with more sense to give GW that much money for what should have been toilet paper.