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krazynadechukr2... don't take it personally. The simple fact is GW loves space marines. They wish everything was space marines. So when a rumor about space marines comes out everyone belives it, while rumors about any rumor that sounds good about any other army is dismissed. Its simply the way of things.

aka_mythos wrote: The simple fact is Blood Ravens in the game don't really follow codex marine format,

And that is precisely why they would need a Codex to codify their divergence from the Codex Astartes.



Of course, this being moar marinz, and cashing in on something "hot", I see no obvious reason to doubt it. But I'd rather see my BA get their printed Codex for ease of carrying and print quality readability.

extermikator wrote:A Blood Ravens codex would be good, but it'd probably be too good, and have loads of amazing rules for the Ravens. Hope that they include the characters from the DOW series

Would be nice, pity it isn't happening.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

aka_mythos wrote: The simple fact is Blood Ravens in the game don't really follow codex marine format,

And that is precisely why they would need a Codex to codify their divergence from the Codex Astartes.



Of course, this being moar marinz, and cashing in on something "hot", I see no obvious reason to doubt it. But I'd rather see my BA get their printed Codex for ease of carrying and print quality readability.

My point is if GW follows the game as a template for a codex the Blood Ravens have little going for them because in the game they don't have access to all the toys marines normally do, and their advantages are rather limited. If you give them the toys all the other marines have they are not as they appear in the game and are only the same chapter in name. They also would end up being so close to the codex space marines they wouldn't need or deserve a codex. Over the course of the Dawn of War games you play as the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th companies. I think if those companies don't have access to particular equipment than none of their chapter really does.

On the flip side if you follow strictly the Blood Ravens as they are presented in the game you have something unique, though rather limited. As an army they'd be too greatly restricted and would suffer for it.

So there you are you either make them more than they are and ignore whats been presented of them or you make them too generic. Either way it makes them not viable. One way kills their fluff. One way kills their list.

If you look at Dark Angels and Blood Angels, they're pretty close to Codex, but have their little different, so BR would be like those guys. A little different.

GW can make BR Librarians uber as their special thing, esp if they can also be taken as Elites or Veteran Sergeant upgrades, like kSons.

Whether these kinds of things "need" or "deserve" a Codex is hard to say, but with DA leading the way, closely followed by BA, I'd say "sure, why not?".

Finally, what says GW won't kill their Fluff *and* their list?

well said.........there are12 confirmed projects coming from gw in the near and distant future.................if this ever sees the dawn of light, first count on it being a faq on gw web or a wd article like chap apprvd.......codex?maybe in 2+ yrs when all other confirmed projects are out.........ive heard of a whf nippon army in the works for 3 yrs now and recently rumours of a new whf army coming out....just saying...................


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh this is funny................original rumour of br codex was started.........................april 1st........lol.....................................(not this thread, but another).

I think I'd take up Warmachine.

Were Warhammer players go to DIE!

JohnHwangDD wrote:If you look at Dark Angels and Blood Angels, they're pretty close to Codex, but have their little different, so BR would be like those guys. A little different.

GW can make BR Librarians uber as their special thing, esp if they can also be taken as Elites or Veteran Sergeant upgrades, like kSons.

Whether these kinds of things "need" or "deserve" a Codex is hard to say, but with DA leading the way, closely followed by BA, I'd say "sure, why not?".

Finally, what says GW won't kill their Fluff *and* their list?

Well I'd say DA are pretty close to codex, but Blood Ravens (unless drastically altered) are closer. They have more of an absence of options and not the addition of options that shift them away from being Codex. Without more than just Librarians, Apothecaries, and stretch rhinos they're a rather lacking trade off. "So I give up vindicators, typhoons, bikes and attack bikes for that?" will be the commonly heard opinion. Other than those nothing has really been shown as uniquely Blood Ravens than a prodigious use of Thunderhawks, deployable bases, and overgunned tactical squads. If they do have 5 heavy/special weapon tactical squads that would probably guarantee good sales...

If GW kills them fluff wise the next Dawn of War would likely revolve around a different chapter. I doubt Relic wants its game's protagonists story hampered by GW's rewriting.

aka_mythos wrote:Well I'd say DA are pretty close to codex, but Blood Ravens (unless drastically altered) are closer. They have more of an absence of options and not the addition of options that shift them away from being Codex. Without more than just Librarians, Apothecaries, and stretch rhinos they're a rather lacking trade off. "So I give up vindicators, typhoons, bikes and attack bikes for that?" will be the commonly heard opinion. Other than those nothing has really been shown as uniquely Blood Ravens than a prodigious use of Thunderhawks, deployable bases, and overgunned tactical squads. If they do have 5 heavy/special weapon tactical squads that would probably guarantee good sales...

I think the 5 weapon tac squads is just how the DoW guys decided to handle Devastator squads isntead of making them another squad type that requires an upgrade, etc. etc.

I agree, but without the advantage of unit distinction in DoW all we have to look at is a unit that could take 5 special weapons or 5 heavy weapons. I'm of the opinion that if it doesn't follow what's been presented in the computer games it not really Blood Ravens. Its Relic and THQ's thing to mess around with. If GW chooses to mess aorund with it, then its no longer the same entity their claiming to present as "Blood Ravens".

5 specials or 5 heavy weapons on basic marine squad. While it likely is meant to represent Devastator squads, it opens it upto alot of interpretation. Does it mean Devastators can have 5 heavy weapons as opposed to 4, or does it mean their Devastators can take special weapons in place of heavy weapons, or does it mean tactical can do one but not the other, or any other combination of numbers of special and heavy weapons.

Point, if we interpret it any other way than it is, it isn't representing the same thing. This sort of interpretation only detracts from their uniqueness, which while appropriate diminishes the viability of their codex.

I don't think they should be done as a stand alone codex and your point only reinforces the fact that I was making before that they are either their own thing (which isn't much) or they are just like everyone else. Both undeserving of a codex.

If you look at a Chaos Havoc squad, they can mix-and-match Heavies and Specials. I don't see why BR couldn't do the same. I don't think other (Loyal) SMs doing this, so it's not a bad differentiator.

But worth a whole book?

Special Weapon Dev Squads and extra Librarians =/= new Codex worthy.

It would be worth a whole codex if it destroys what has been established by the Goto novels.

Brimstone wrote:

extermikator wrote:A Blood Ravens codex would be good, but it'd probably be too good, and have loads of amazing rules for the Ravens. Hope that they include the characters from the DOW series

Would be nice, pity it isn't happening.

If Brimstone says it, it's probably the truth. Guess that means either no Blood Ravens or no characters for Blood Ravens. Guessing the former rather than the latter.

BrookM wrote:It would be worth a whole codex if it destroys what has been established by the Goto novels.

This... This I have to agree with. Damn C.S. Multi-laser Goto.

Now if GW was smart they'd out out metal character models with rules in WD.

But y'know, then they'd have to find a place to put all the money they'd make and that's sucha hassle.

Brimstone wrote:

grizgrin wrote:Hey everyone, I heard that GW is making room in their release schedule for the Blood Ravens early 2010? Can anyone confirm this, or is it BS?

Complete and utter codswallop.

I've no idea what a codswallop is, but since it sounds slimy and cold I'll take it to be negative. Thanks Brim, I have shipped said swallop back to the giver. That'll leave a mark.

aka_mythos wrote:krazynadechukr2... don't take it personally.

Happens to everyone.

Lord of battles wrote:

I think I'd take up Warmachine.

Were Warhammer players go to DIE!

Sometimes. Othertimes the just become raving lunatic elitist crackmonkeys with a bent for disingeniously insulting people who don't see it their way. And sometimes they just remain gamers. But some of the absolute WORST attitudes I have seen in 16 years of wargaming have been from Hordesmachine players talking "like they got a pair."

BrookM wrote:It would be worth a whole codex if it destroys what has been established by the Goto novels.

Game, set, match.

BrookM wrote:It would be worth a whole codex if it destroys what has been established by the Goto novels.

Ah c'mon! Don't you want a special Blood Raven rule where all characters ride on top of their transports?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrookM wrote:It would be worth a whole codex if it destroys what has been established by the Goto novels.

Ah c'mon! Don't you want a special Blood Raven rule where all characters ride on top of their transports?

Or where the terminators are fething midgets and squeeze into a Razorback? Hmmm, no thanks. Guilleman would would pull a face of distaste at the blatant disregard of his beloved codex Astartes.

OR THE PART WHERE EVERYTHING TURNS OUT TO BE A COMPLETE MINDFETH AND THE BLOOD RAVENS AREN'T REALLY MADE BY ELDAR BUT INSTEAD BY THOUSAND SONS GUIDED BY THE ELDAR FOR SOME MYSTERIOUS SCHEME THAT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE CASSERN SEBASTION GOTO HAS A VERY UNHEALTHY LOVE FOR CONE-HEADED CHINA DOLLS.

Bleh, however the feth did they get him to write that gak and get away with it. Or any of those novels for that matter. It's all about Eldar pulling strings in his books.

edit.

Oops, managed to circumvent the language filter.

I honestly think he had only the smallest idea what 40K was about, and might have seen a game where people were putting Sergeants or ICs or whatever on top of their tanks (like a lot of people do, our group included) to remind them what squad is in what vehicle. And from that he inferred that people ride on their vehicles.

Very silly. Not as silly as the author's fiat handwavium Rangers that are invisible and can hit specific internal organs from any range.

There were lots of really dumb deus ex machina moments in the Firewarrior novel, but it was entertaining, and the bit where Kais discovers that Titans are not Imperial propaganda but are in fact real was very cool. Dawn of War... wow... the only big I liked was the Chaos Lord bringing a Vyper down by ramming it with his Chaos Bike (stupid, but funny to imagine). Or was that the Blood Raven commander? I don't know.

SINDRIIIII!!!!!

A lot of authors bend the background over and have their way with it, just look at what Abnett pulls off again and again, but there should be a line as to how far you can take 40k into "your own direction". Though I guess Lucian Soulban, that OTHER horrible author is partially to blame for the Dawn of War debacle, he cowrote the ingame story.

Now Fire Warrior wasn't good or great but the author (Si) has shown great promise with Xenology and Lord of the Night. Goto on the other hand has produced nothing but Eldar-laced crap until now. Even his dream project, a novel about Eldar fighting Eldar is nothing but an overly idiotic and needlessly stupid plot about fantasy elves in space with magic, instead of 40k Eldar.

Goto once made a remark where he was amused at how displeased people were with his "version" of 40k.

To be fair, while Goto's work is pure crap Graham McNeil has some of the same elements. His heresy stuff has been pretty for the most part (Fulgrim *shiver*) the first part of the Ultramarine series is sketchy at times.

Fulgrim was crap. Reading that book was like work.

GW once stated in a WD article that what you read in novels does not and will not always be or become canon in the game rules.....The two are seperate......So if a a novel comes out and there is a unit of marines that have two powerfists and some special armour that deflects psychic attacks, do not expect to see that option in a future codex........It is FLUFF only.......


OOOohhhh Raven Guard (Dawn of War II) is out....must mean a codex for them is on the horizon......NOT

Dawn of War... wow... the only big I liked was the Chaos Lord bringing a Vyper down by ramming it with his Chaos Bike (stupid, but funny to imagine). Or was that the Blood Raven commander? I don't know.

Only one thing is certain: he was out of bullets.

Are you guys sure Ravenguard have lots of psykers?

G

krazynadechukr2 wrote:GW once stated in a WD article that what you read in novels does not and will not always be or become canon in the game rules.....The two are seperate......So if a a novel comes out and there is a unit of marines that have two powerfists and some special armour that deflects psychic attacks, do not expect to see that option in a future codex........It is FLUFF only.......

None of which justifies or somehow 'explains away' bad writing. the C.S. MULTI-LAZOR GOTO books are horrid from far more than just a 'fluff breaking' perspective.

Seriously? MORE Space Marines? Update your existing armies first, you jackasses! At least release a new Inquisition codex before more marines.

That aside, a librarian/psychic-heavy army would be interesting. Like many, I'd probably end up using the codex to represent Thousand Sons, or another magic-heavy Chaos army.

dienekes96 wrote:List of Space Marine/related books (with my comments)
I don't think so. My facts, as posted in the SW goatrope thread, are based on the RELEASE schedule. Design tradespace = art, codex, NEW STUFF. How many armies GW "has" is irrelevant to my point. That presumes there is a set number of releases, and SM take up 6 of the DEFINED 16. That is your postulation. Mine is all about design tradespace. For which specialty Marine releases have taken up TWO SLOTS in the past 9 years, since I don't count Chaos...Chaos will always get theirs.

Here is a postulation of mine. GW can't support 16 40K armies. Space Marines provide a nice "shortcut" to enable a few extra armies to exist (space that would NOT go to a new race) while also comfortably supporting the bottom line.

So there, I have rechecked my facts, and find that red Marines haven't impacted GW releases for 11 years, grey ones for 9 years, and the green ones went 8 years between updates. That is worse than Tau, Tyranids, and IG. So I am comfortable saying that Dakka member's infantile whining about releases is unfounded based on the claims they make. As I pointed out in the SW thread, with the actual release dates conveniently ignored.

Yo.

Translation: "Hey, stop hating on Space Marines, it's not fair if you think about it logically! But it's totally fair to hate on Chaos! Good thing they got shafted their last release, hehehehe."

Your hypocrisy is staggering.

But whatever. SPESS MAREEHNS, VE AVE FAYLD DA EMRPAH!

Lord of battles wrote:

I think I'd take up Warmachine.

Were Warhammer players go to DIE!

If by "die" you mean "never be able to return to 40K because they can't stomach an inferior rules set", then yes, it's where they go to die.

krazynadechukr2 wrote:GW once stated in a WD article that what you read in novels does not and will not always be or become canon in the game rules.....The two are seperate......So if a a novel comes out and there is a unit of marines that have two powerfists and some special armour that deflects psychic attacks, do not expect to see that option in a future codex........It is FLUFF only.......


OOOohhhh Raven Guard (Dawn of War II) is out....must mean a codex for them is on the horizon......NOT

BLOOD Ravens................................................

Not Raven Guard............................................................................................................................................................

terminus wrote:I'd probably end up using the codex to represent Thousand Sons, or another magic-heavy Chaos army.


Your hypocrisy is staggering.

If by "die" you mean "never be able to return to 40K because they can't stomach an inferior rules set", then yes, it's where they go to die.

With those three lines I hope you see what I am getting at.