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Which is why when we had Black Marines Who Love the Emperor, Black Marines Who Watch Death, Edgar Allen Poe Black Marines and Black Marines in Green Armor, the Black Marines in Green Armor were turned into Drow. Because having more than one kind of Colored Marine is a frightening and confusing prospect for GW Nottingham.

Miguelsan wrote:Nah, it´s only a rumor. There can´t be a codex Red Marines because there is already a Red Marine chapter and having two would confuse the heck in GWHQ.

M.

But these ones are Dark Red. And they're not angry they're more OH NOES DRAHMAAAAAA.

It's probably someone getting it mixed up with the Blood Angels rumours for next year (with BA and 'Nids coming thanks to Space Hulk).

nids?

there getting updated?

jmurph wrote:You don't understand. Different colored marines are so different they need an entire codex to explain how different they are. Fighty black religious marines are *nothing* like fighty grey viking marines or fighty red marines (not to be confused with psyker red marines or red techmarines who work with every chapter). This is why we need so many different marine codexes. Because they can't just be reflected by paint schemes and unit selection.

Never let facts get in the way of a good rant. GW has released two "different chapter" Codicies in the last 8 years...BT in 2005 and DA in 2007. Yeah, they updated the main SM book every time they pumped a new version out, but expecting otherwise is imbecilic.

The actual problem is that GW is now releasing about two books a year for armies. But the other argument is much cooler.

I hate Space Marines! Yay!

what next? Codex: Hello Kitty? or year 2012 proudly presents - Codex: *any color* Marines. Codex: Not humans?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Y'know if I had to choose between Codex The Other Red Space Marines and Codex Elfs WHo Are Dark and Also In Space...

I think I'd take up Warmachine.

Isn't Codex Eldar the next release for Warmachine?

dienekes96 wrote:

jmurph wrote:You don't understand. Different colored marines are so different they need an entire codex to explain how different they are. Fighty black religious marines are *nothing* like fighty grey viking marines or fighty red marines (not to be confused with psyker red marines or red techmarines who work with every chapter). This is why we need so many different marine codexes. Because they can't just be reflected by paint schemes and unit selection.

Never let facts get in the way of a good rant. GW has released two "different chapter" Codicies in the last 8 years...BT in 2005 and DA in 2007. Yeah, they updated the main SM book every time they pumped a new version out, but expecting otherwise is imbecilic.

The actual problem is that GW is now releasing about two books a year for armies. But the other argument is much cooler.

I hate Space Marines! Yay!

Thank you dienekes96!

I'm thinking of having a new Censure Point system installed here at Dakka to help curb all the "Spase Marinez HURR!!1!!" crud that cycles through here way, way too often!

If they do I will totally play them as Thousand Sons until we get a proper Codex.

Damn those whispers....THE VOICES!

If GW was putting out 3 or 4 codexes a year, it'd be a lot less of an issue. I wonder if this is serious or in the, "We'd like to Chaos Legion books" category. Maybe they can just roll them into the sixth edition SM codex with a few special characters.

Alpharius wrote:I'm thinking of having a new Censure Point system installed here at Dakka to help curb all the "Spase Marinez HURR!!1!!" crud that cycles through here way, way too often!

The HURR!!!11! and Dakka are one. Remove one and the other will wither and die.

Rumor or not, they really do need to anything other then Space Marines.

Not hateing, just saying....

List of Space Marine/related books

Codex Space Marines
Codex Space Wolves (Scheduled to be re-written)
Codex Blood Angels (White Dwarf)
Codex Dark Angels
Codex Black Templars
Daemonhunters (Grey Knights)
Codex Chaos Space Marines

Other Races
Necrons (Arguable still Space Marines)
Tyranids
Eldar
Dark Eldar
Tau
Imperial Guard
Witch Hunters
Chaos Demons
Orks

Thats 7 of 16 different races being Space Marines, and if you count Necrons, that's 8, or fully 1/2 of all codicies. So half of all of GW's stuff is Marines, and you are telling us to stop whining about Space Marines? You need to recheck your facts yo.

Something from the latest DLT podcast makes me wonder about this when they quoted GW saying "I can't believe we kept it secret this long" or the like. Maybe they finally realized the magic of cross-promotion.

whitedragon wrote:Necrons (Arguable still Space Marines)

anorexic undead spase marienz?

List of Space Marine/related books (with my comments)

Codex Space Marines (flagship race, gets redone with every edition probably as a baseline)
Codex Space Wolves (Scheduled to be re-written) - last took up design tradespace in 1999/2000, 6 models in 2003
Codex Blood Angels (White Dwarf) - last took design tradespace in 1998 (ELEVEN YEARS AGO)
Codex Dark Angels Sure, 1999, 2007, eight year wait between releases
Codex Black Templars sure, 2005

Daemonhunters (Grey Knights) - I disagree with this assessment, since this is also IG as well, with some Daemon love thrown in (adversary rules)
Codex Chaos Space Marines - this is also debatable, but not worth the argument on the internet, so this counts

Other Armies:
Necrons (Arguable still Space Marines) - the Tyranids are then "arguably" Orks. No dice. (2002)
Tyranids (2000, 2005)
Eldar (2000, 2007)
Dark Eldar (1998, ???)
Tau (2001, 2005)
Imperial Guard (2003, 2009)
Witch Hunters (2003)
Chaos Demons (2008)
Orks (2008)

whitedragon wrote:Thats 7 of 16 different races being Space Marines, and if you count Necrons, that's 8, or fully 1/2 of all codicies. So half of all of GW's stuff is Marines, and you are telling us to stop whining about Space Marines? You need to recheck your facts yo.

I don't think so. My facts, as posted in the SW goatrope thread, are based on the RELEASE schedule. Design tradespace = art, codex, NEW STUFF. How many armies GW "has" is irrelevant to my point. That presumes there is a set number of releases, and SM take up 6 of the DEFINED 16. That is your postulation. Mine is all about design tradespace. For which specialty Marine releases have taken up TWO SLOTS in the past 9 years, since I don't count Chaos...Chaos will always get theirs.

Here is a postulation of mine. GW can't support 16 40K armies. Space Marines provide a nice "shortcut" to enable a few extra armies to exist (space that would NOT go to a new race) while also comfortably supporting the bottom line.

So there, I have rechecked my facts, and find that red Marines haven't impacted GW releases for 11 years, grey ones for 9 years, and the green ones went 8 years between updates. That is worse than Tau, Tyranids, and IG. So I am comfortable saying that Dakka member's infantile whining about releases is unfounded based on the claims they make. As I pointed out in the SW thread, with the actual release dates conveniently ignored.

Yo.

I want Space Wolves to get a Codex, and soon, if only for a new SW accessory sprue that's sure to be full of conversion fodder.

But Blood Ravens? C'mon... what do they add to the game? And I don't care about whether the game gets another Marine release or not, but shouldn't you choose something that's quite a bit different to regular Marines (like the Wolves and Templars are)? Pskyer-Heavy Ultramarines does not make for an interesting book. We've got two slightly divergent Codex Chapters already (Blood & Dark Angels)... why do we want another?

I'll tell you what though, if Blood Ravens do get a Codex then they'll be stealign the 'Most Unnecessary Codex Ever' award from Codexaemons.

But Blood Ravens? C'mon... what do they add to the game? And I don't care about whether the game gets another Marine release or not, but shouldn't you choose something that's quite a bit different to regular Marines (like the Wolves and Templars are)? Pskyer-Heavy Ultramarines does not make for an interesting book. We've got two slightly divergent Codex Chapters already (Blood & Dark Angels)... why do we want another?

They're all divergant codex chapters. None of them were needed. Why not blood ravens if space wolves are getting a full book? The loyal thousand suns are every bit as "legitimate" as the space vikings. They probably have better name recognition as well considering the success of the dawn of war titles.

I'll tell you what though, if Blood Ravens do get a Codex then they'll be stealign the 'Most Unnecessary Codex Ever' award from Codexaemons.

I'd argue that most of the marine individual subchapter books are "the most unnecessary codex ever". They aren't actually different armies, just different flavors of the flagship book. Flavors that could easily have been covered in said book.

The daemons at least provided a reletively fresh introduction to the metagame with their deep striking and a good bit of flavor beyond "SPACE MARINES ARE AWESOME AND WE ARE THE BEST SPACE MARINES THOSE OTHER CHAPTERS SUCK". Dropping the animosity hurt it though.

Oh, I agree. I just don't even register Blood Ravens as a legit rumor. If they do get a Codex, I'll be dumbfounded. [cartman]This does not make sense![/cartman]

I am by no means endorsing more Marine releases beyond the established Chapters. And if they wanted to pair Marines up like Angels of Death (DA/BA, SW/BT), that'd be fine with me. But the notion that anything but the lethargic release pattern (since 4th edition) is to blame for the trickle updates is ignorant. Especially by folks blaming specialist Marines, who have barely been touched since SW in 2000.

That said, I agree with a previous poster who said Angelos should have been a character in SM. And his model should have come with the SE of Dawn of War II.

I loled at this thred.

I don't mind new chapters getting books, but it would be nice to see updated versions of established chapters first.

I would rather see every codex released in 5E than see new codices. SW, DE are finally getting their due, but lots of the lists need updating before GW should think about adding more SM sublists.

ShumaGorath wrote:They're all divergant codex chapters. None of them were needed. Why not blood ravens if space wolves are getting a full book? The loyal thousand suns are every bit as "legitimate" as the space vikings. They probably have better name recognition as well considering the success of the dawn of war titles.

I know there's no point in arguing this with you but Wolves and Templars have completely alien structures to Codex Marines. Their similarities lie in the weapons and equipment they use, and stop about there. Different squads, different organisation, and some unique Wargear. They are every bit as different to Codex Marines as Chaos are.

Unlike, say, Dark Angels and Blood Angels, which are both Codex Chapters + a couple of unique units and some special rules.

And I didn't think the Templars should have receive a Codex in the first place - they were a cynical attempt by GW to cash in on the 'broken' army from the Armageddon Codex, and when they didn't sell because they weren't broken any more, Graham McNeil lost his place as a Codex writer - but I like the concept of Crusading Marines enough (if not the execution) to want to keep them around.

ShumaGorath wrote:I'd argue that most of the marine individual subchapter books are "the most unnecessary codex ever". They aren't actually different armies, just different flavors of the flagship book. Flavors that could easily have been covered in said book.

They did that once. It was called Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Remember what happened there?

That's not to say that you're wrong Shummy - I'm sure that many if not all the current Chapters could be covered in a single book - but there's also the reality side to this. GW is a business, and their most successful product is Marines. Giving lots of different versions of Marines is a good thing for their bottom line... but Blood Ravens aren't a different version of Marines. There's nothing different about them (unlike Wolves, Templars or even the most Codex Adherent of the divergent Chapters, the Blood Angels)

ShumaGorath wrote:The daemons at least provided a relatively fresh introduction to the metagame with their deep striking and a good bit of flavor beyond "SPACE MARINES ARE AWESOME AND WE ARE THE BEST SPACE MARINES THOSE OTHER CHAPTERS SUCK". Dropping the animosity hurt it though.

Ok, let's ignore the ALLCAPS drama for a second and just look at the Daemons. Deamonic Infestations are something in the fluff that happens rarely, so rarely in fact that GW gave them a whole Codex. Wha...? Anyway, the Daemon thing is unnecessary because it wasn't as if they just made a Daemon army, first they had to take Daemons away from CSM players, then make an army to appease them. That's bad design. There's no reason why the two couldn't exist at the same time, with the Daemon army getting their fancy rules and special characters, and the CSM army keeping their flavourful daemons that aren't generic.

Hey everyone, I heard that GW is making room in their release schedule for the Blood Ravens early 2010? Can anyone confirm this, or is it BS?

I remember in 4th Ed you could have the Blood Ravens and the were different from Smurfs. They could infiltrate tac squads/ dev squads and take true grit as they had the traits; See, but don't be seen (which they decided to rename Shrike's old rule) and Trust your Battle Brothers.

I don't think they need a new dex, last edition you could get them with those traits and by taking two Librarians rather than a Force Commander with a Chaplain or Librarian. But with the 5th Ed dex and the "Special Characters make special armies" thoughts that all went away. Still though you could take old whats his name, Tigerius, and a Libby and boom Blood Ravens.

grizgrin wrote:Hey everyone, I heard that GW is making room in their release schedule for the Blood Ravens early 2010? Can anyone confirm this, or is it BS?

Complete and utter codswallop.

Note, everyone, that Brim simply said the rumour of 2010 was crap... wait, no, in fact he didn't say that at all.

All Brim said was that GW making room in their schedule for Blood Ravens in 2010 was crap. That doesn't necessarily mean that:

1. Blood Ravens aren't coming.
2. There wasn't already room in 2010 for them.
3. They're coming out after 2010.

A Blood Ravens codex would be good, but it'd probably be too good, and have loads of amazing rules for the Ravens. Hope that they include the characters from the DOW series

I think this is silly. First I don't like the idea of the Blood Ravens getting a codex. GW created them specifically so THQ could produce a video game without GW and them stepping on each others toes. It would become a bit self defeating(EDIT: read this realized its exactly the sort of stuff GW does).

Also I don't think GW would be able to do them. The simple fact is Blood Ravens in the game don't really follow codex marine format, while that might be a reason for giving them a codex the divergances are more to their disadvantage. Looking at the game as a template... (in addition to Librarians) they'd have Apothecaries as sgt upgrades, they wouldn't have as many of the vehicles to choose from, their Tactical Squads could take multiple special weapons while their devestators could have 5 heavy weapons. Their Rhinos could magically hold more than 10 marines. All this was really just a way to balance marines in a video game media and wouldn't translate back too well.

Honestly, if GW wants to do Blood Ravens they could just have them tied to a special character or two. Hell, at this point I think GW should just do a book of 20+ marine characters and cover a bunch of chapters with special characters. Lets get these Codex Chapters and all their variations on a theme covered and call it a day.

Wow. In the past I have posted completely credable info (I know the head GW west coast) and posted "leaks" only to get slammed with "no, you are wrong." and "You don't know squat." only to watch a plastic Valkyrie actually come out (posted that info 1 1/2 years ago), and was one of the first to post info on the Tau way back when, and no one believed it....Now I see a post about "whispers" of a Blood Raven codex, and nearly all posts here are "Oh, yes. Makes sense." and "It was just a matter of time." and so on.....That is so funny what people want to believe.........People already talking of what characters to include and all......When you first "hear" something might be coming out, count on a minimum 1 to 2 years before it ever happens (if it happens).