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blackdiamond:

Speaking of 'real-world' Chimeras, there's the Soviet BMP series. Actually the Chimera isn't so bad, except for the usual complaints about the tracks, and those weird boxy side-parts.

Prior to the new codex coming out I'd wish-listed that they'd made an Autocannon-turreted Chimera (like the Forgeworld Salamander Scout with an armoured top) as an Imperial Guard light tank. It turns out we got the Devil Dog as the light tank instead, so I definitely can't complain.

I also proposed allowing Infantry Platoons to be fielded as single large units. Spoooooky.

Boxy side parts are pontoons. They make your chimeras float.

From looking closer at the sprues, I have to point out that they've managed to fix a few of my pet peeves. The turret is centered on the hull, which is good because centering it was a biatch. It also looks like it will be easier to convert a sloping glacis plate.


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Speaking of bits, does anyone know where the track guards are on these sprues?

Haha... there are no track guards or accessories included... you have to buy them from GW directly. We all know how nice GW is, they pulled out all those sprues just so they could drop the price by a whopping $.50. Nothing like losing 2 sprues worth of stuff from the kit and seeing such a large savings .

@Nurglitch :
There are no track guards on the sprue.
And GW is so nice to us, that there will be no longer the tank accessory sprue within the new box.
You will have to buy it seperatelly from Mail order if you want to have trackguards or all the other options.
Nice, isint it?

aka_mythos wrote:I do build my own out of plasticard and other things, but thats beside the point. The point of my comment was not that 40k = toys. It was more a compairson on a relativistic scale. Even if it changes only a tiny amount it still changing in the direction of more toy like, because it is getting simplified. The point of the statement goes back to the fact that a significant portion of IG players that convert rely on the wheels and tracks as separate pieces to do the vast majority of their conversions.

Significant? Honestly, what percentage of Leman Russ kits sold since their original release about 15 years ago do you think have been converted in this way? I know it's nice to have the ability there, but for the rest of us it was a complete pain in the proverbial to assemble, taking a needlessly long time for something that could be easier and you can't even see.

It isn't so much a matter of simplification, but how the models are used. As the model kits move further and further away from being converter friendly, they become something that is more restrictive in how they are used. That de-emphasis away from the hobby to playing the game is what makes it more toy like.

Look at all the examples of recent kits i've just listed and tell me with a straight face that GW are moving towards simpler kits that are less converter/modeller friendly. All those kits come with plenty of options, extra parts for customisation and high detail (look at the underside of a Trukk, ridiculously detailed for something you can't even see in game or the inside of a drop pod, where many people glue them shut) and most are reasonably complex builds. There's no great trend or evil plan to turn GW into a maker of cheap snapfit toys as you're trying to imply. As usual, the sky isn't falling.

xowainx wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:I do build my own out of plasticard and other things, but thats beside the point. The point of my comment was not that 40k = toys. It was more a compairson on a relativistic scale. Even if it changes only a tiny amount it still changing in the direction of more toy like, because it is getting simplified. The point of the statement goes back to the fact that a significant portion of IG players that convert rely on the wheels and tracks as separate pieces to do the vast majority of their conversions.

Significant? Honestly, what percentage of Leman Russ kits sold since their original release about 15 years ago do you think have been converted in this way? I know it's nice to have the ability there, but for the rest of us it was a complete pain in the proverbial to assemble, taking a needlessly long time for something that could be easier and you can't even see.

There isn't anyway of truly knowing that. If I had to guess I'd guess 5%. The point is that it is limiting and restrictive, the point of an artistic pursuit is to be less limited. Even if you like the new design, you have to admit that in making it "easier" they have reduced the number of parts and possible ways you can assemble it. I seriously never thought of it as painful. Peg into hole. More pegs more holes. Anyone who seriously struggled with this has never assembled a scale model tank. Its quite similar, but those kits have more tiny parts. Excess detail also has little to do with converting. Its useful in the significantly less likely chance that someone wants to convert the inside; I have seen more track assembly conversions than any and all interior conversions.

xowainx wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:It isn't so much a matter of simplification, but how the models are used. As the model kits move further and further away from being converter friendly, they become something that is more restrictive in how they are used. That de-emphasis away from the hobby to playing the game is what makes it more toy like.

Look at all the examples of recent kits i've just listed and tell me with a straight face that GW are moving towards simpler kits that are less converter/modeller friendly. All those kits come with plenty of options, extra parts for customisation and high detail (look at the underside of a Trukk, ridiculously detailed for something you can't even see in game or the inside of a drop pod, where many people glue them shut) and most are reasonably complex builds. There's no great trend or evil plan to turn GW into a maker of cheap snapfit toys as you're trying to imply. As usual, the sky isn't falling.

What you say here doesn't invalidate what I said. Having plenty of options does not make a kit more or less converter friendly. Also the two, modeling and converting, are not neccesarily the same thing; this comes down to whether the person assembles the model the way it was intended to be or not. So while all those kits and extra parts are modeller friendly, they aren't any more converter friendly than any spare pile of parts lying about.

I never said their was some evil plan. On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being toys, 10 being models) GW has gone from an 8 to a 7.5; minorly consequential. I only spoke of them moving in the direction of toys. I still don't believe them to be toys, it is just a subtle trend following GW's pursuit of a simpler demographic.

You've taken a simple statement I made and asked me to expand on it many times more than I really ever meant to.

aka_mythos wrote: I wasn't the biggest fan of the tracked wheels, but now that those are gone I really see the conversion potential of the it severely restricted.

Everything else I have said to you has been to expand on that, to convey the sentiment that I feel the new kit is more restrictive. Maybe its also less so in others, but in the case of what I was talking about, it most certainly is.

Out of curiousity, what kind of conversions have been made with the old tracked wheels, that couldn't be done with the new model?

Here are just a few...
http://www.battlegroup.net/blog/
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2642&d=1131843796
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=284848&postcount=54
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=284848&postcount=54
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=550742&postcount=942
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=556356&postcount=981
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=578185&postcount=1010
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2774986&postcount=5562

I can't think of many peope who will be sad to see the current Russ track system vanish into the distant past. Those things were horrible.

And as someone who has put together more than 50 of the fething things, I can say that.

aka_mythos wrote:Here are just a few...
http://www.battlegroup.net/blog/
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2642&d=1131843796
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=284848&postcount=54
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=284848&postcount=54
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=550742&postcount=942
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=556356&postcount=981
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=578185&postcount=1010
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2774986&postcount=5562

That can still be done methinks. Mount a plasticard plate inside the track. Mount the treads on that plate.

I'm not missing the wheels on balance for the Leman, but would definitely for the Chimera, as the sies can be cut away to reveal the wheels in a similar manner to a rhino without difficulty.

Well the track widening might be possible with the new kit but more involved than just doubling up on wheels and tracks (that covers 2 of those links). But anything with exposed wheels is gone.

Those were just what I found in 5 minutes of looking. I'm sure there are many more.

Can it be confirmed that the vehicle accessory sprues are now gone, or is that just potentially left off the initial slides. That seems like more of deal to me, kind of a screw the customer move.

Lets be clear, if I have to buy vehicle accessory sprues I can get better and cheaper ones via Tamiya.

The accessory sprue is not included in the box. The copula is fuzed to the turret and a few of the bitz are on the demolisher and hellhounds sprues. The rest, you have to get by purchasing the accessory sprue separately. The guy a Warseer who got pictures of the sprues, said this was the case.

The demolisher has gone from 5 sprues + metal bits to only 3 sprues. All for a whopping $.50 decrease in price. What a deal!

There are more bits on the sprues, you get all the sponsons options and enough heavy bolters for an all heavy bolter loadout, the three different main cannons, and different stowage boxes to go with each cannon. The engine cover and the side hatches appear to all be fused in place. The turret's locating collar appears smaller, so that forgeworld turrets will no longer work; the turret is now centered. No wheels, the tracks locate position by the tracks teeth fitting into teeth shaped indentions along the top of the side walls.

aka_mythos wrote:The turret's locating collar appears smaller, so that forgeworld turrets will no longer work

I will verify this, hopefully over the weekend. If so, that's my deal breaker. I emailed Forge World asking them if their turrets and body kits would work on the new kit (no reply, as usual). Maybe they didn't know.

Cheese Elemental wrote:We don't need more anime fan gak in 40K.

CE, what exactly does "anime fan" mean?

And can you define it without sounding like a full on racist gak?

So thats not related to Patrick Star going "wweeeeee bboooo" when scared walking down the street at night in an episode of Spongebob? Teach me to assume things...

"Weeabo" is word filter for "Wapanese" on 4chan.

Although normaly used in a deragatory fashion against overzelos animefans.

It's a derogatory term for bad anime and things that try to be like anime, e.g. Tau and the D&D supplement book Tome of Battle, which is known on 4chan as the Book of anime fan Fightan Magic.

Redemption wrote:Out of curiousity, what kind of conversions have been made with the old tracked wheels, that couldn't be done with the new model?

You might wish to take a look at the scratch half-track conversion at this link.

BEEP!

Sorry sir, try again. Duke got it right, it's white folks what like Japanese stuff.

A nice term that combines racism, xenophobia and a 'stick to your own kind' narrow-minded-ness.

If you don't like anime, fine, whatever, but terms like weeabo are:

A - Hysterically funny to toss around when you don't know anyone's ethnicity
B - Bascially say it's wrong for non-Japanese to like anything Japanese.

I guess the next question should be: what's 4chan?

Frazzled wrote:I guess the next question should be: what's 4chan?

Some sort of AoL intarweb site I hear.

I don't know much about it since I don't use the AoL intarwebs much.

blackdiamond wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:The turret's locating collar appears smaller, so that forgeworld turrets will no longer work

I will verify this, hopefully over the weekend. If so, that's my deal breaker. I emailed Forge World asking them if their turrets and body kits would work on the new kit (no reply, as usual). Maybe they didn't know.

This may just be an illusion of sorts, since in the very least they thickend up the part turret that goes into the chassis, inwardly. It also appears that the Chimera and Leman Russ now share the same turret collar. This is also a blow to converters who liked using Predator turrets on their IG tanks.

aka_mythos wrote:Boxy side parts are pontoons. They make your chimeras float.

Actually, they're not. According to several GW fluff sources, they're the engines.

Well those just went from making sense to not making any sense. It makes little sense to mount an engine in a protruding box, screams shoot me, especially when the imperium has the technology to locate the engines into the side walls (like a rhino) or elsewhere.

I always assumed they were, given that some real life amphibious tanks have similar protruding features.
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/UnitedStates/lighttanks/uslt-ChristieAmphib1923-IonFonosch.jpg
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/france/imageCET.JPG
http://www.amphibiousvehicle.net/amphi/I/ikv91.jpeg
http://www.d-daytanks.org.uk/images/articles/developing_images/image004.jpg

Cheese Elemental wrote:It's a derogatory term for bad anime and things that try to be like anime, e.g. Tau and the D&D supplement book Tome of Battle, which is known on 4chan as the Book of anime fan Fightan Magic.

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Platuan4th wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:Boxy side parts are pontoons. They make your chimeras float.

Actually, they're not. According to several GW fluff sources, they're the engines.

Could be the floaters now, GW has said "feth FW" before. Plus in the new codex only the Chimera keeps the boxy sides, all the other Chimera chassis variants have the new Hellhound slimmed sides.

I guess that's because the Chimera is the Imperial Guard's #2 AV...

Some one posted some nice pictures of the hellhound on Warseer. They're some of the best pictures showing the rear details.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3772182&postcount=1

I'm impressed with how they have the fuel tanks and the fuel hoses to them. It actually makes a good amount of sense now. I'm really glad to see that its more than just a rear covering plate with some blah detail. I may have to get this now.

The pics are show a better design than what I originally thought, but to me it still doesn't compare to the FW versions.