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I'm happy as long as they de-frustrationized the track and wheel assembly. I have no idea why there is so much spontaneous vitriol out of nowhere. Warseeritis indeed.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

BrookM wrote:

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:Negativity makes you die sooner.

We can only hope so. His blood must've turned to pure vinegar by now.

I see things a lot more clearly than you lot, that much is for certain. And really, would I even want to spend more lifetime in such company? I think not.

We arnt exactly psychics on the internet , nor we do we claim to explain ourselves to the points you might totally understand.
I dont think you see things any clearer than others , if anything miscommunication plays a part in giving you that illusion.

*Back on topic , the "older" version of russes have 2 tabs beneath the turret , and the haul have 2 slots to where the tabs go into.

I have clipped mine off and it makes absolutely no difference ( other then i cant lift the russ by grabbing the turret lol )
so i was wondering if that makes the older russes 100% interchangeable with new ones.

I would have liked to see a Mars Alpha-pattern hull - more rounded model. Oh well - will have to go back to the drawing board to figure out a plasticard add-on template.
Don't mind the rest of the details mention though.

Just have to add - Johny, grow up. It;s just a toy, no need to throw yours out the pram.

I'm with John here, but less angrylike.

This was a fantastic opportunity to update it to a more sleek, modern design. A lower hull profile, more stowage, just...more better.

And yes, I know more better isn't proper English.

I'll third the wishing for a more practical design. They could have at least produced the Alpha Pattern. Ah well. Hopefully the new one is as easy to convert into something resembling a tank as the previous one was. I worry about the reported loss of the wheels, as those were really important to modifying the tracks so they had clearance. As for the rest of it? Time to get out the plasti-card...

Incidentally that Four Reich Rhino in the Warseer thread is pretty cool. It reminds me of how a guy, whose name I forget but he was one of the few decent posters on Warseer back in the day (no doubt banned with the rest of the Portent old guard), did some CAD work on a realistic Leman Russ that kept the basic design but made it look good (lowered it, widened the tracks, made the battlecannon less cartooney, enlarged the turret, gave the tracks some clearance, etc).

I don't see the issue, just be patient. If you don't like this version of the Russ there will be another one in 2024.

And I'm sure GW will lower their prices and World of Warcraft will be shut down too.

Deleted per Iorek's PM

First of all, I don't see how it's "stupid-looking". I rather like how the Russ looks and I don't get why people hate it so much. I especially like it with what I think is the Vanquisher turret, looks badass.

Second of all, where the hell is the justification for a more "modern" look? I thought the main appeal in playing IG was the WW1-esque tanks and tactics? "Modern" isn't the first thing that comes to my mind when looking at the average Guard army.

*Edited out.

Sidstyler wrote:First of all, I don't see how it's "stupid-looking". I rather like how the Russ looks and I don't get why people hate it so much. I especially like it with what I think is the Vanquisher turret, looks badass.

Second of all, where the hell is the justification for a more "modern" look? I thought the main appeal in playing IG was the WW1-esque tanks and tactics? "Modern" isn't the first thing that comes to my mind when looking at the average Guard army.

Also, now that we're trading friendly advice, I suggest that you go play in traffic, on an unlit street, after sunset, wearing dark clothing...

And I suggest you go cut yourself. Seriously, you really are acting like a fething child, telling people to go play in traffic over a fething toy.

Are you really going to say that, with the vast amounts of different worlds manufacturing tanks, the various hulls, etc...

That the Leman Russ should always have that WW1 tank look, and that every Guard army should play exclusively as waves of troops ala the Vallhallans?


If so, I'd love for them to go and flesh out the other regiments with their own Codexes, and have a Codex for each style of warfare(Cadians--mechanized/urban warfare, Elysians--drop assault, shock troops, and Catachans--jungle warfare/ambush tactics).

Because frankly, there's more to Guard than trenches and meatshields.

Kanluwen wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:First of all, I don't see how it's "stupid-looking". I rather like how the Russ looks and I don't get why people hate it so much. I especially like it with what I think is the Vanquisher turret, looks badass.

Second of all, where the hell is the justification for a more "modern" look? I thought the main appeal in playing IG was the WW1-esque tanks and tactics? "Modern" isn't the first thing that comes to my mind when looking at the average Guard army.

Also, now that we're trading friendly advice, I suggest that you go play in traffic, on an unlit street, after sunset, wearing dark clothing...

And I suggest you go cut yourself. Seriously, you really are acting like a fething child, telling people to go play in traffic over a fething toy.

Are you really going to say that, with the vast amounts of different worlds manufacturing tanks, the various hulls, etc...

That the Leman Russ should always have that WW1 tank look, and that every Guard army should play exclusively as waves of troops ala the Vallhallans?


If so, I'd love for them to go and flesh out the other regiments with their own Codexes, and have a Codex for each style of warfare(Cadians--mechanized/urban warfare, Elysians--drop assault, shock troops, and Catachans--jungle warfare/ambush tactics).

Because frankly, there's more to Guard than trenches and meatshields.

But what about Codex: Krieg? Surely they get a Codex for being Meatshields and Trenchfighters

Deleted per Iorek's PM

I can feel John's pain , but i'll leave the " i like or i dont like out of this" and just get to the point.

GW's investment in making plastic kits costs money , there is no doubt that we'll be stuck with this "new" LR for a decade.
How ever it looks pretty much the same as the old ones , and just as pricey.

So why would GW waste money to recreate something that looks the same? = why people are disappointed.

stupid looking or not, it's a fine tank, and it's battle cannon round is 1 of the best there is....

I say it's fine, and the majority agree....at least it didn't look worse!

Marshal, there's already a Codex: Krieg!

Meatshields and trenchfighters is the 'codex', gawd!

JohnHwangDD wrote:http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207928

Now, that's a somewhat radical approach to fixing the Russ, but very impressive in the details and execution.

Quite so. Shame that it's monstrously ugly. Better luck next time.

Kanluwen wrote:Marshal, there's already a Codex: Krieg!

Meatshields and trenchfighters is the 'codex', gawd!

Silly Me!!!

Because frankly, there's more to Guard than trenches and meatshields.

And there's more to Tau than "anime mecha anime fan fightan magic", but will people ever listen? No.

Seriously though, I just don't think there's anything wrong with the tank's design. And I'm sure every regiment is different, but that doesn't mean they all use their own totally unique vehicles, does it? The "s" in STC is for "standard", isn't it?

*Edited out.

So why would GW waste money to recreate something that looks the same? = why people are disappointed.

It's not like they haven't done it before. The recut Ork boys and CSMs were pretty much the same as before, with a few new bits thrown in. Maybe they're fairly happy with the design and don't want to make mini baneblades?

Actually if it were a mini baneblade then I wouldn't like it. You can't please everybody I guess.

Sidstyler wrote:

Because frankly, there's more to Guard than trenches and meatshields.

And there's more to Tau than "anime mecha anime fan fightan magic", but will people ever listen? No.

Actually, I think it's more true for the Tau than the Imperial Guard. The Guard is explicitly a stagnant organization, in a culture where innovation and free interchange of ideas are not only illegal, but also heretical. They are very much slaves to the status quo, blindly following doctrine their ancestors laid down a millennium ago with none of them knowing why. If anything, the Guard is far too specialized and capable, considering the nature of the Imperium.

The Tau, on the other hand, are inquisitive, technically advanced and dynamic, pretty much superior to the Imperium of Man in every single way. They adapt and evolve to deal with new challenges in new ways, whereas the IG just goes through the motions like a race of brainless drones.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:

Because frankly, there's more to Guard than trenches and meatshields.

And there's more to Tau than "anime mecha anime fan fightan magic", but will people ever listen? No.

Actually, I think it's more true for the Tau than the Imperial Guard. The Guard is explicitly a stagnant organization, in a culture where innovation and free interchange of ideas are not only illegal, but also heretical. They are very much slaves to the status quo, blindly following doctrine their ancestors laid down a millennium ago with none of them knowing why. If anything, the Guard is far too specialized and capable, considering the nature of the Imperium.

The Tau, on the other hand, are inquisitive, technically advanced and dynamic, pretty much superior to the Imperium of Man in every single way. They adapt and evolve to deal with new challenges in new ways, whereas the IG just goes through the motions like a race of brainless drones.

*Some* Guard armies do, if we go by the fluff.
Creed's grasp of combined arms tactics, the Tallarn playing to their strength, the Elysians perfected their aerial strikes as best as they can, etc.

There's plenty of "specialist" Guard armies. The problem is that, currently, those specialist Guard armies play just like the non-specialist Guard armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Further thinking:
I think the biggest issue, to me at least in regards to the Guard, is that GW thinks too...big for Guard. At least in 40k, that is.

40k isn't suited to an unwieldy organization that's deployed in waves of millions by their commanders.

If they went and did the Guard to be more focused on the Veterans/Stormtroopers or the Mechanized units, etc...I personally feel we'd be in a better place.
Less emphasis on tanks also would be fantastic to me.
I mean, the Drop Sentinels from IA3/4?
Awesome. They give the idea of a specialist force that's suited for THAT role, and has trained extensively to hold their title as best at that role.

If making the Leman Russ realistic means flattening it like a BB, I'm not interested either. The LRBT is a characterful vehicle. Then again, I don't complain about the last edition of SM vehicles either.

Why do people need a 'realictic' Leman Russ anyway? To bring it line with the sheer wealth of other realistic things in 40K?

Because they want something that looks like a tank.

I'm buying and painting 3 Leman Russ kits this week (using Forge World Demolisher cannon). I can't see any reason to wait a month for the new kit. As a store owner, I'll consider the new Demolisher a basic restock, rather than a new release. Am I missing something?

Nurglitch wrote:Because they want something that looks like a tank.

Tracks? Check!
Turret? Check!
Big Honking Gun in the Turret? Check!

Looks like a Tank to me?

The IG don't need to be special ops. Thats not what they do. They are a sledgehamer. Slow, unwieldy, and all but unstoppable. This is how it has fought for Millennia, and successfully so. Why would the Imperium change it?

If you want a special ops force, might I suggest Space Marines, Tau, or Eldar rules? These cover that style of Warfare, be it highly mobile, hit and run forces (Eldar) super elite infiltration where skill matters more than numbers (Marines) or long ranged firepower backed up with some mobile infantry (Tau)

Really, another pointless, badly thought out debate on a 40K forum? Who could have imagined that?

40K and specificially, the Imperial Guard, have had a "retro" technology look for two decades. It seems odd to criticize this now. It is what it is and that has made it very popular. There are plenty of historical simulation games out there with realistic, modern looking equipment. Yes, modern tanks have sloping armor and no sponsons and the troops who man them do not have magic weapons nor super-human allies nor alien monsters to fight. 40K has never been an historical simulation, it's a fantasy game. If they changed it to please a few then GW would lose the many. Instead of wishing 40K was something different, if one doesn't like it, then find models and a game one does like. If 40K lost its retro "dark age of lost technology" atmosphere, GW would be out of business over night.

BrassScorpion wrote:Really, another pointless, badly thought out debate on a 40K forum? Who could have imagined that?

40K and specificially, the Imperial Guard, have had a "retro" technology look for two decades. It seems odd to criticize this now. It is what it is and that has made it very popular. There are plenty of historical simulation games out there with realistic, modern looking equipment. Yes, modern tanks have sloping armor and no sponsons and the troops who man them do not have magic weapons nor super-human allies nor alien monsters to fight. 40K has never been an historical simulation, it's a fantasy game. If they changed it to please a few then GW would lose the many. Instead of wishing 40K was something different, if one doesn't like it, then find models and a game one does like. If 40K lost its retro "dark age of lost technology" atmosphere, GW would be out of business over night.

Quoted for excessive irony.

You guys ever play dawn of war ( video game ) ?
The LR animation pretty sums up why i find the model's design so silly looking.

They look like they'll roll over everytime they fire their cannon , or if they go up/down a hill.

The tank looks like a ball / box.

Don't forget getting bogged down in anything but pavement due to the tracks being flush with the track-guard, the limited transverse of the sponsons, all the shell traps in the glacis plating, its height, and the side hatches.

Then don't play guard?