My Girlfriend > 2nd Amendment

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**Gwar!**

Frazzled wrote:
Fateweaver wrote:Dunno Frazz, that porcelain pony is pretty fething scary. LOL.

I think if you walked through Compton with that in your hand and no other weapon you'd get mad respect. Who's gonna feth with someone man enough to only arm his or herself with a porcelain pony?

The guy with the Mac 10?

No wai. You'd be all like "Dude, I have a goddamn Pony, you aint gonna feth with this. Keep Walkin.

**Gitzbitah**

Heh. The insanity plea of street cred. I has a unicorn.

**BluntmanDC**

First off, not all brits hate guns, my 17 year old brother has a gun licence and a shotgun and only uses it to shot pests and vermin in farm barns. the first few points are:
1. women are illogical and unresonable especially when arguing
2. anti-gun and pro-gun are both nutters and biased to the point of deafness
3. quoting the 2nd ammendment usually makes a person look bad as its usually the worst, most annoying people that do so
4. guns do not lead to someone getting killed, its a person that does, if guns didn't exsist they would just use knives

if she wants you not to have a gun at home, store it at a club so you can still have and use one, or you can use this as a barganing chip in the future, no gun in the house and you can veto something she wants. or you could find someone else who shares your interests, but that is the extreme of the options

**Valhallan42nd**

jp400 wrote:Yay, yet another thread that started off with a legit and sensable question, and then devolved into a US bashing thread.

I can't help but wonder how many more times this will go on before mods actually hand out REAL warnings to those that are constantly doing this. Seriously, what the hell do mass shootings and US gun laws/regulations have to do with trying to help the OP convince his GF to allow a gun in the house?

Falcon,
It sounds to me that no matter what you say or do, it wont affect her mind one bit. Maybe suggest takeing some self-defence classes to go along with buying the gun? Pending where you live I can point out several places you could look into.

jp400,

I don't see any real US bashing. There is some good natured ribbing, and passionate debate over America's love affair with guns (a love affair I share).

YMMV.

V-42

**Kilkrazy**

If there is USA bashing going on, put an alert on it.

**Albatross**

No offense Albatross but she probably would have thanked you for telling her to "jog off" and still gotten her crossbow. LOL.

It's 'Jog on' - and she stated that she had to borrow some of the dough off her BF, so she wouldn't have got it.

So jog on. Y'know, no offence.

@Roze - I don't need a crossbow, since I don't live in the middle ages. Plus, I'm fething NAILS.

**Roze**

LOL i dnt live in the middle ages and i'm getting pretty good accuracy on it now, i was Terrible at first!
And i would have gotten it, i'd have borrowd the cash from someone else or waited one more month. all in all i just wanted it "then" i'd have gotten it either way

**Albatross**

@Roze - Ah, but a crossbow won't keep you warm at night, my dear!

What a weird sentence. Lol.

**halonachos**

Well, the logical thing is that a gun doesn't kill anyone.

It is an inanimate object and therefore has no free will. Seeing as though it has no freewill, it cannot do things on its own. Guns, believe it or not, are not dangerous until you put them into the hands of a person. Never aim at what you don't intend to kill, check your target and what's behind your target, and always wear bright orange. A gun is about as dangerous as a sewing needle until you put it into the hands of someone, in which case a gun may be more or less dangerous than a sewing needle. For example, if a martial artist is utilizing a sewing needle they can kill you, stab to the neck, through the diaphragm, through the bottom of your chin and through the soft pallet of your mouth and into your brain...

My question would be if you and her are planning to keep this relationship going and if you or her want to have children. If so, this could be her logical excuse for not wanting to have a firearm in the house. Kids get into everything and leaving bullets and the weapon itself in separate locations are almost minimum in an effort to prevent the kid from using said firearm.

That being said, owning a gun is a big part in the american lifestyle whether its for hunting, collecting, heritage, or just plain sport. I know a guy who has muskets that his great grandfather used in the civil war and my father has the M1 Garand that my grandfather used in the korean war. I like WW2 history so I purchased a russian rifle and I like target shooting so I own a small .22.

This is off the point, but perhaps bring up the idea of a gun safe. If you plan on getting any guns a gun safe is a good idea of preventing anyone from getting to the weapons inside.
If you don't live in a mansion then chances are anyone robbing your house are petty thieves and won't have anything to crack a safe with dead bolts. Most are fireproof for a certain amount of time so any ammo put in it won't go off by chance, and most small children and some teenagers have troubles trying to open a combination lock.
There will be firearms in the house yes, but they'll be unloaded and locked away tightly from sight, and any potential children.

However, if she's from britain then chances are she was raised anti-gun and doctrine instilled as a child is hard to remove.

**Oldgrue**

Falconlance wrote:
My girlfriend won't let me keep a gun in the house...
Any of you gun guys out there have any advice?

1: New girlfriend. Quick, easy, and no nonsense. (yeah, i read the non-option this is)
2: Sit her down and go through her 'reasoning' and ask sincere questions.

My wife is against them because most will go through our thin walls, anything I'd want might visit the neighbors if I missed, and they scare the heck outta her.

**Albatross**

People in Britain are not raised to be 'Anti-gun' - we're just not raised to be 'Pro-gun'. There's a big difference.

**Orkeosaurus**

What is it?

**Albatross**

The difference is viewing the subject of guns objectively.
More guns in a society = more gun deaths. There are less guns in our society, there is a correspondingly lower chance of being shot in Britain. Most Brits see this, but that doesn't mean we are indoctrinated to believe it. Guns just simply aren't part of British life - I have only seen a real gun once in my life, and I'm 27. Many people have NEVER seen one. Hence, there is no real need to bring your kids up 'pro-gun' or 'anti-gun' - we basically make our own minds up.

**Orkeosaurus**

Albatross wrote:The difference is viewing the subject of guns objectively.
More guns in a society = more gun deaths. There are less guns in our society, there is a correspondingly lower chance of being shot in Britain. Most Brits see this, but that doesn't mean we are indoctrinated to believe it. Guns just simply aren't part of British life - I have only seen a real gun once in my life, and I'm 27. Many people have NEVER seen one. Hence, there is no real need to bring your kids up 'pro-gun' or 'anti-gun' - we basically make our own minds up.

So people who have your opinion are the objective free-thinkers, and people who don't are indoctrinated into a partisan debate?

Everyone has their own reasons for their opinions, and you don't become wiser about a topic as a result of sheltering yourself from it. There are times when increasing the number of guns in a society will reduce gun deaths (as has been shown a few times in the United States) as well as times when increasing the number will result in more deaths. It depends on many factors (who is allowed to purchase guns, how else can guns be procured, how does the population treat the ownership of guns, etc), even ignoring the fact that gun ownership is not purely a criminological affair (but also pertains to hunting, sport shooting, collecting, reenactments, and the protection of legal rights in the United States).

People who are against abortion call themselves Pro-Life, with the implication that their opponents condone murder. People who are for it call themselves Pro-Choice, with the implication that their opponents support tyranny. People's opinions on guns can generally fall along a spectrum; there's no objective distinction between "Pro-Gun" and "not Anti-Gun", unless you assume that both terms can only apply to people who hold their views irrationally, in which case no one would call themselves either of those things in any case, and the terms aren't very useful unless you're just trying to insult someone.

**Albatross**

So people who have your opinion are the objective free-thinkers, and people who don't are indoctrinated into a partisan debate?

You're misreading me a bit there, mate. What I believe is neither here, nor there. The important part is that I arrived at those beliefs free from indoctrination. Another poster (Halonachos IIRC) claimed that Brits are indoctrinated to be anti-gun - that's just not true.

Compare this:

Guns just simply aren't part of British life - I have only seen a real gun once in my life, and I'm 27. Many people have NEVER seen one. Hence, there is no real need to bring your kids up 'pro-gun' or 'anti-gun' - we basically make our own minds up.

To this:

That being said, owning a gun is a big part in the american lifestyle whether its for hunting, collecting, heritage, or just plain sport. I know a guy who has muskets that his great grandfather used in the civil war and my father has the M1 Garand that my grandfather used in the korean war.

That would seem to suggest a 'pro-gun' element in American society that isn't really present in Britain. I'm not insulting anyone.

**Orkeosaurus**

Albatross wrote:You're misreading me a bit there, mate. What I believe is neither here, nor there. The important part is that I arrived at those beliefs free from indoctrination. Another poster (Halonachos IIRC) claimed that Brits are indoctrinated to be anti-gun - that's just not true.

Ah; sorry, I missed that. Probably shouldn't have went off on such a rant.

Compare this:

Guns just simply aren't part of British life - I have only seen a real gun once in my life, and I'm 27. Many people have NEVER seen one. Hence, there is no real need to bring your kids up 'pro-gun' or 'anti-gun' - we basically make our own minds up.

To this:

That being said, owning a gun is a big part in the american lifestyle whether its for hunting, collecting, heritage, or just plain sport. I know a guy who has muskets that his great grandfather used in the civil war and my father has the M1 Garand that my grandfather used in the korean war.

That would seem to suggest a 'pro-gun' element in American society that isn't really present in Britain. I'm not insulting anyone.

I'm still not sure I see how being around guns makes you any more Pro-Gun than not being around one makes you Anti-Gun. Or are you just saying you haven't been specifically raised that way?

**Albatross**

Or are you just saying you haven't been specifically raised that way?

Yes.

What I meant is that because of the prevalence of guns and the contencious nature of the subject in America, people may be brought up 'Pro' or 'Anti' firearm ownership there. But that doesn't happen in the UK, because guns are not widely available. As it's not really a big issue here, parents generally don't bring up kids 'pro' or 'anti' . What I will say though, is that because they are fairly uncommon, most people DO treat them with suspicion and gun-ownership as an unnecessary danger to place yourself and your family. I suppose the rationale is: 'there are enough dangers outside your front door, why add to your worries by bringing one inside?'. Don't get me wrong - I keep a bat in my apartment in case of trouble. I just think there's less chance of me wrapping a bat around my head by accident, then there would be of shooting myself!

But y'know, don't discount anything.

**Orkeosaurus**

Well, if you handle a gun correctly the risk of accidentally shooting yourself is negligible. The main problem is you have to both put the initial investment into learning how to handle it correctly, and then apply that without exception whenever you interact with it. That's more investment than a lot of people really want to put into something like home defense (and I can't blame them, it's not an epidemic or anything, in most places).

**Manchu**

@Albatross: I still can't figure out why my upbringing in the States consists of indoctrination while yours in the UK entails objectivity. If anything, your lack of experience with firearms would make you less objective because . . . well, you don't actually know anything about them from personal experience but only what other people have told you, which is of course what they want you to hear/believe. Sounds rather like bias if not actual indoctrination. You're using loaded terms (no pun intended) with shaky culturally provincial premises.

I think this is what jp400 was referring to.

**Orkeosaurus**

From what I understand he was trying to say that because the concept of gun control is far less prominent in UK politics, people growing up in the UK are less likely to have strong influences on their opinion of guns passed down from their family.

I'm not sure that makes someone a better judge of the topic, but I suppose it's a decent counter argument to the accusation of being indoctrinated.

**Manchu**

Wait, what does it matter if the subject doesn't come up very often? Albatross, the thrust of your opinion comes across as "owning guns is unnecessary and basically barbaric and we British are above it." Sorry, if that's misreading. Also, the claim that you "make up your own minds" is ridiculous. You are shaped by cultural norms just like we are, the norms are just different.

**sebster**

Orkeosaurus wrote:Unicorns are magical beasts with the ability to destroy evil creatures. I'd consider them quite a bit better for protection than some measly firearm.

(They're also invisible if you're not a virgin, so they can like, sneak up on you, and BAM! Impaled!)

So if they're invisible if you're not a virgin, how did you know what was in the picture?

You can be anti-gun without being an indoctrinated and irrationally afraid of guns, just like you can be pro-gun without being an indoctrinated gun fetishist. Basic reality is that if you bring a gun into the house it brings with it certain risks, these are risks that can be mitigated with proper gun safety and storage, but it is an assumption that proper methods will always be used, so there will always be an intrinsic level of risk. That level of risk should be compared against the benefits of having the gun in the house, increased ability to defend oneself, recreation or in the case of that Martini Henry, just having it in the house because it's a beautiful thing.

It's easy to conclude either the 'more harm than good' and on the 'more good than harm', depending on personal views and personal circumstances.

**Orkeosaurus**

Girls are intimidated by the robustness of my neckbeard.

**Manchu**

Try worshiping Slaanesh.

**Orkeosaurus**

I did, but having six man boobs isn't as attractive as you might think.

**Cheese Elemental**

Orkeosaurus wrote:Girls are intimidated by the robustness of my neckbeard.

DINOSAURS DONT HAEV HARE

**Manchu**

Orkeosaurus wrote:I did, but having six man boobs isn't as attractive as you might think.

Well, have you tried buying a gun? (rimshot)

**Orkeosaurus**

Neckbeards aren't actually hair. They're Cheeto and loneliness that slowly grows into a curly, stringy substance and protects the exposed neck from those disgusting vampire LARPers.

**Oldgrue**

Albatross wrote:More guns in a society = more gun deaths. There are less guns in our society, there is a correspondingly lower chance of being shot in Britain.' ... we basically make our own minds up.

You *also* have less <insert tool here> deaths by nature of population density. We also have more cars, coins, and religious nutjobs...but less overt government surveillance. How's that working for you?
Less experience with a thing doesn't seem to me as something that engenders objectivity. It would seem to me that making something rare instead allows unfounded opinions to run rampant. Like the 'conspiracy theorists' from the original post.

**Orkeosaurus**

Manchu wrote:
Orkeosaurus wrote:I did, but having six man boobs isn't as attractive as you might think.

Well, have you tried buying a gun? (rimshot)

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Owning a Gun" bullgak that's going on in DakkaDakka right now. Katanas are much better than them. Much, much better than them.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine katana in Japan for 2,400,000 Yen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my katana.