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At my independent local gaming store you must pay to play on the gaming tables. Or you must spend 100€ (in one buy) to become a member and then, you can play for free. Plus, if you are member you have 10% of discount on GW products.
They do everything they can do, but to manage an independent local gaming store is the worst business I can imagine.
GW works against independent gaming stores! Your supplier are working against you!
1. The profit margin on models are ridiculous.
2. The supplier (GW) sells on their webstore with no sipphing costs.
3. The supplier (who sells on their webstore) has "special" products that no one else can sell.
4. Some models require bits that only can be found on... their webstore!
5. When the number of gamers has risen (thanks to a little independent gaming store) they put their own and big store on that city.
6. They do special offers on their stores that no one else can do.
7. Independent gaming stores doesn't know nothing about the next updates, models, armies and company planning. Because that, thay can not do a good job with orders
8. ad infinitum


At my business we work for a 120-230% profit margin. And we let to know our retailers the catalog for the next year. It is the only way to let him survive and make money. Retailers pay for electricity, rent, advertising, workers, taxes, ...

RUNE wrote:At my independent local gaming store you must pay to play on the gaming tables. Or you must spend 100€ (in one buy) to become a member and then, you can play for free. Plus, if you are member you have 10% of discount on GW products.
They do everything they can do, but to manage an independent local gaming store is the worst business I can imagine.
GW works against independent gaming stores! Your supplier are working against you!
1. The profit margin on models are ridiculous.
2. The supplier (GW) sells on their webstore with no sipphing costs.
3. The supplier (who sells on their webstore) has "special" products that no one else can sell.
4. Some models require bits that only can be found on... their webstore!
5. When the number of gamers has risen (thanks to a little independent gaming store) they put their own and big store on that city.
6. They do special offers on their stores that no one else can do.
7. Independent gaming stores doesn't know nothing about the next updates, models, armies and company planning. Because that, thay can not do a good job with orders
8. ad infinitum


At my business we work for a 120-230% profit margin. And we let to know our retailers the catalog for the next year. It is the only way to let him survive and make money. Retailers pay for electricity, rent, advertising, workers, taxes, ...

To be fair to GW, it isn't that way in the US. At least from my point of veiw, and I've carried their stuff for 22 years.
1. Profit margin is inline with MTG, and many other games, equal to Warmachine and Flames of War.
2. No shipping cost when my customer picks up from me either.)
3. I can order every single item on the GW website for my customers. Do it routinely.
4. See #3
5. I bought out the first GW store in Philadephia when they were going to close it. Second was opened on the other side of the city from my stores, about an hour drive. They just moved that store, and it got smaller. They are referring most of the veteran gamers down to my stores since I have play space that they lack. Someone in GW thought scheduled a store to go in near me, without quite looking at the map, other people in the company nixed the idea, and I know it cost them some cash. For years they have talked to me about how/where they were putting in stores.
6. See #3, I get everything they have on the website.
7. HA!!! Sorry, but the poor guys in retail don't know either. I have friends at the GW stores. I sometimes get updates, and new army books before they do. GW is tight with info everywhere, not just in their own stores.
8. Ad infinum, but in the opposite direction. A good independent store can study and steal the good parts of a GW store, then add stuff GW can't, and provide services to their customers that GW can't. It does take time, energy, and a willingness to commit yourself to the games. But it certainly pays off in sales. And, frankly, GW works very well with stores that do that.

I could care less about competition from GW. They don't discount. My competition comes from two sources:

1) Online discounters with a huge % off, and crappy service. They tend to disappear with peoples money after awhile, but another one always pops up.
2) Neal at the Warstore. And not because of his 20% off, but because of his committment to service. Neal competes by giving good service to his customers. Any store that wants to compete with Neal needs to start with service, complete stock of models on the wall at all times, and a willingness to fix problems. That's his real secret.

I sort of stayed away from this thread because of my obvious bias. But I'll say this: Go back and look at the thread, and notice that the overwhelming majority of people value 3 things: Service, Discount, and Selection. A store doesn't need discount, IMHO, but it better have service and selection.

mikhaila wrote:
To be fair to GW, it isn't that way in the US. At least from my point of veiw, and I've carried their stuff for 22 years.
1. Profit margin is inline with MTG, and many other games, equal to Warmachine and Flames of War.
2. No shipping cost when my customer picks up from me either.)
3. I can order every single item on the GW website for my customers. Do it routinely.
4. See #3
5. I bought out the first GW store in Philadephia when they were going to close it. Second was opened on the other side of the city from my stores, about an hour drive. They just moved that store, and it got smaller. They are referring most of the veteran gamers down to my stores since I have play space that they lack. Someone in GW thought scheduled a store to go in near me, without quite looking at the map, other people in the company nixed the idea, and I know it cost them some cash. For years they have talked to me about how/where they were putting in stores.
6. See #3, I get everything they have on the website.
7. HA!!! Sorry, but the poor guys in retail don't know either. I have friends at the GW stores. I sometimes get updates, and new army books before they do. GW is tight with info everywhere, not just in their own stores.
8. Ad infinum, but in the opposite direction. A good independent store can study and steal the good parts of a GW store, then add stuff GW can't, and provide services to their customers that GW can't. It does take time, energy, and a willingness to commit yourself to the games. But it certainly pays off in sales. And, frankly, GW works very well with stores that do that.

I could care less about competition from GW. They don't discount. My competition comes from two sources:

1) Online discounters with a huge % off, and crappy service. They tend to disappear with peoples money after awhile, but another one always pops up.
2) Neal at the Warstore. And not because of his 20% off, but because of his committment to service. Neal competes by giving good service to his customers. Any store that wants to compete with Neal needs to start with service, complete stock of models on the wall at all times, and a willingness to fix problems. That's his real secret.

I sort of stayed away from this thread because of my obvious bias. But I'll say this: Go back and look at the thread, and notice that the overwhelming majority of people value 3 things: Service, Discount, and Selection. A store doesn't need discount, IMHO, but it better have service and selection.

WELL SAID MIKHAILA.

you stated everything I was trying to figure out how to say to that post

I'll just throw my 2 cents in. I do my very best to support my FLGS whenever I can. I have traded online quite a bit and buy random things but the majority of what I get comes from there. I enjoy the ability to go and play or hang out anyday of the week. I live in the nieghborhood behind mine lol so the nearest other game store is probly 30 min to an hour away. So I really don't mind buying from them.

RUNE wrote:At my independent local gaming store you must pay to play on the gaming tables. Or you must spend 100€ (in one buy) to become a member and then, you can play for free. Plus, if you are member you have 10% of discount on GW products.

That is INSANE, so effectively, the only way to become a member is to buy a new army? Also, do you get that 10% off the original 200$+ purchase?

rune wrote:
1. The profit margin on models are ridiculous...

...At my business we work for a 120-230% profit margin. And we let to know our retailers the catalog for the next year. It is the only way to let him survive and make money. Retailers pay for electricity, rent, advertising, workers, taxes, ...

You are right, that is a ridiculous profit margin, assuming you obtain the average profit margin of your two figures (while quite a broad spectrum it already it) you would be recieving an average of 175% PROFIT margin. So that would mean that for every item you sell, you make profit of 2 3/4s so in essence, if you have an inventory of 100 land raiders at 60$ a pop (Price used for example, may not be real price at store) it would take 37 Land raiders to cover the cost of the batch as well as all other cost relations, giving you a profit of 3780$. Assuming it takes 2 months to sell those LRs (Again for EXAMPLE) that would be a wage of ~8$ and hour (above minimum). And thats ONLY selling 100 landraiders in a period of 2 months. I can only imagine the profits your store takes home if it requires people to make a purchase of 200+$ (63€ profit just to become a member, you must have some big spenders in your area). Unless your store is a ghost-town, you must be making quite the living off of indepentant game store managing.

Unless of course you mean you make an Internal Revenue of 175% (Meaning before rent, employee wages, etc) but even so, thats still outrageous!

The only company that I have heard of that comes close to that level of profit margin (on all of their goods) would be Apple. But then again, Apple is an evil company that sucks the money out of the wallets of their loyal patrons... (Personal vendetta!)

privateer4hire wrote:
Whereas in parts of rural America the physical distance involved with getting a community with enough player density makes it unworkable, too. Distance kills the country gamer and expense kills the city gamer

I never thought of that. I guess the club scene is perhaps limited to suburbs and small towns with low propery values?

Seriously though, some non-FLGS-based clubs do exist, but as you point out there are alot of barriers to putting together a club with it's own permanent space that meets more than weekly, that is not based at a FLGS or an individuals home.

Is the on-line discount such a big deal?

For instance checking out prices for a Sace Wolf Battalion set at GW is £50
Wayland have it at £40-45 *

But then you need to factor in postage costs. There is still a saving to be made but for the sake of the few quid involved, i am better off (IMHO) to go to Games Emporium an indie retailer and support them.

It is a small price to pay for the great personal service they provide.
The same question pops up regarding model hobby shops and there is plently of hand wringing and lamentation that accompanies the closure of a LMS.

The extra service that these guys are providing is exceptional and would be a tragedy to lose for the sake of a few bucks.

*please don't take this as a slight on Wayland or other on line stores as they provide good service too. It is just that having lost a LMS a few years back who also stocked GW stuff, it is a pain in the derrier to get to a store now.

I think the discount becomes a bigger deal if you're buying a large lot, Chibi Bodge-Battle.

I've noticed this, too- if I want to buy things slowly, piecemeal, there's really not a lot of savings in buying online, anyway, due to the shipping. I also can't get some of the items I'm looking for at the online discounters, only the mainstays of the army.

If I was going to buy the mainstays in bulk, I would save money doing it online... but I'd rather buy it as I go and support my local store.

Otherwise I get discouraged by the amount of unfinished models, and don't get any traction on the project (this has happened several times!). Going into the store every week or two and buying the next piece gives me some accountability and people to talk to about the project... and of course posting it on Dakka helps, too

Fair comment mate

Buying an instant army isn't going to happen for me due to cash flow
and the fact that there are far too many unfinished models in the house as it is

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:
That is INSANE, so effectively, the only way to become a member is to buy a new army? Also, do you get that 10% off the original 200$+ purchase?

Could you do an army with 100€? A simply battlebox, 85€ in Europe. 1€ = 1.35$

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:
You are right, that is a ridiculous profit margin, assuming you obtain the average profit margin of your two figures (while quite a broad spectrum it already it) you would be recieving an average of 175% PROFIT margin. So that would mean that for every item you sell, you make profit of 2 3/4s so in essence, if you have an inventory of 100 land raiders at 60$ a pop (Price used for example, may not be real price at store) it would take 37 Land raiders to cover the cost of the batch as well as all other cost relations, giving you a profit of 3780$. Assuming it takes 2 months to sell those LRs (Again for EXAMPLE) that would be a wage of ~8$ and hour (above minimum). And thats ONLY selling 100 landraiders in a period of 2 months. I can only imagine the profits your store takes home if it requires people to make a purchase of 200+$ (63€ profit just to become a member, you must have some big spenders in your area). Unless your store is a ghost-town, you must be making quite the living off of indepentant game store managing.

Unless of course you mean you make an Internal Revenue of 175% (Meaning before rent, employee wages, etc) but even so, thats still outrageous!

The only company that I have heard of that comes close to that level of profit margin (on all of their goods) would be Apple. But then again, Apple is an evil company that sucks the money out of the wallets of their loyal patrons... (Personal vendetta!)

RUNE wrote:
Could you do an army with 100€? A simply battlebox, 85€ in Europe. 1€ = 1.35$

Wow, the value of the dollar has increased. Even still, a "simple battle-box" is typically marketed as a starter force. Strike forces are full on 1500 point lists.

RUNE wrote:
I think you or me missed something. I'm not in the miniature business. I'm talking about MY businees when I told about 130%/230% profit margin. And, of course, it is not miniatures.
And, when I talk about 1,3-2,3 it is simply= the cost is 100, then, it will be sold at 230€ (at minimum). Now, you know the money that can be moved by an international fashion business.
And, of course, at the end of the month we must pay rents, workers, agents, lawyers, insurances...

I misunderstood the context of "My store" in relation to your FLGS. I thought you were another store owner (as this site has alot) and I am sure many of them were thinking "Jeeze, how much do you charge to get a margin of 175%.

Yes, the Fasion business is very profitable, no doubt about that. (See my remarks to Apple, effectively the "fasion" business of electronics) but if you are taking the 175% before factoring in the end-of-month costs (rent, wages, etc) then that would be more of a Revenue Percentage or "Marginal Gains" Profit is the money that you as the owner get at the "end of the day", when all associated costs (including Product, facilities, and services/labor) are taken from your Revenue.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Is the on-line discount such a big deal?

For instance checking out prices for a Sace Wolf Battalion set at GW is £50
Wayland have it at £40-45 *

But then you need to factor in postage costs. There is still a saving to be made but for the sake of the few quid involved, i am better off (IMHO) to go to Games Emporium an indie retailer and support them.

It is a small price to pay for the great personal service they provide.

Rest of Europe:
Battlebox/battalion at GW store/independant store = 80/85€
Maelstrom = 50/53€
save= ~35€

Imperial Guard Cadian Shock Troops box at GW store/independant store = 20
Maelstrom = €11.99

Difference between official UK and Europe prizes are stunning. Now GW are fixing differences, but they should ban discounts from webstores.
Another time, at my job, the big companies forbid the retailers to lower a minimum price to protect the market.

Of course, uk webstores were my first option and I've spent a lot of money with them. Everyone looks after their interests and, at the end, I sympathize with the problem. And think it's GW fault to allow those discounts on webstores and difference between prices.

Thanks for that Rune
had no idea there was such a difference. It is rather astonishing. Theoretically it should be cheaper online in the UK given the domestic transport costs should be lower. Mainland Europe would have extra costs incurred which means the online price ought be higher? Is sterling really that bad against the Euro
Am somewhat baffled by this.

Not sure what GW can legally do regarding price fixing. There may be legislation prohibiting such actions.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

GW *IS* legally price fixing. There *IS* legislation prohibiting such actions.

I fixt that statement using only the word "IS".

How GW gets away with it? They don't have a monopoly on the Wargaming hobby. Same way apple gets away with charging 1900$ for a computer with the processing power of a 200$ Netbook simply because it is "lighter" (MacBook Air). It's bullscrap but its legal.

Eilif wrote:

privateer4hire wrote:
Whereas in parts of rural America the physical distance involved with getting a community with enough player density makes it unworkable, too. Distance kills the country gamer and expense kills the city gamer

I never thought of that. I guess the club scene is perhaps limited to suburbs and small towns with low propery values?

Seriously though, some non-FLGS-based clubs do exist, but as you point out there are alot of barriers to putting together a club with it's own permanent space that meets more than weekly, that is not based at a FLGS or an individuals home.

Come to think of it, this sort of divide might have a lot more to do with people's perceptions and priors than is immediately obvious.

Myself, I grew up in the sticks. Trees, farms, more trees. The local game shops were about an hour away, if you were lucky enough to find one (getting a ride was of course a pain.) What stores there were often had very little stock of anything, if they stocked your poison at all. Even playing something as common as Magic when it came out was a question of finding a source for cards first, and finding friends/enemies at school to game with was pretty much the only option. As a result, any of us that played anything were used to setting up our own clubs, networks and the like to get games in.
The internet then opened up a huge avenue for aquiring gaming items, meeting people and setting up networks of gamers. Even in college we met friends, friends of friends and other opponants through groups and clubs set up among students. There was a half decent comic store that sold some gaming stuff, but I don't think I ever met anyone through there, even indirectly.

So I guess I would ask "What have I ever really gotten from a FLGS?" Turns out, not a lot. Most of the people I game with now I met through Dakka, though some have been through the local networks in the stores. Now, the occaisional tournament is nice, but I probably wouldn't notice for a good 2-3 months if the local stores closed down.

Then again, I am more of a painter than a player, and get enough human interaction at work to make me want to avoid leaving the house, so I might be a bad example. Still, I have to wonder how much of people's attachment to the idea of a FLGS is due to living in a place where a pretty decent one was handy, and so they never had to set up their own networks of gamers, and as such are not comfortable with the notion? I could see myself getting in a similar mindset if I had grown up going to Mikhalia's fantastic store instead of roughing out in the wilderness.

Speaking of which, glad to see you chime in Mike! Also glad to see our conversation Sunday helped streamline your thoughts!

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Is the on-line discount such a big deal?

For instance checking out prices for a Sace Wolf Battalion set at GW is £50
Wayland have it at £40-45 *

But then you need to factor in postage costs. ...

On the postage deal, Neal at the Warstore ships for about £3 on virtually any order size. That makes even small orders easily justifiable. Couple that with his insanely nice service, prompt delivery, and great discounts (20% on most items) and you see why it's hard to avoid buying from a store like that

Hi Privateer

Have to disagree on that. Not to incite an argument, but because I am a tight fisted

For example, a single figure blister pack would cost around £7. so three quid postage is roughly an extra 50%.
That is half a figure - so the postage literally it would cost an arm and a leg!

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Hi Privateer

Have to disagree on that. Not to incite an argument, but because I am a tight fisted

For example, a single figure blister pack would cost around £7. so three quid postage is roughly an extra 50%.
That is half a figure - so the postage literally it would cost an arm and a leg!

yes but say you purchase 10 figures, the 20% effectively is giving you 2 free and the postage is the same regardless, so you are still getting 8 and 1/2 for the price of 10 (including shipping) and thats on tiny orders, you really start to see the savings when you decide to mechinize your army (for instance, buying 6 rhinos 3 LRs and a few Pred/Vindis for apoc)

Yes
but that would be different from a small order- which was my point
ie you order one or two figures each time- a couple for the sake of arguement
5x£3=£15 postage on top of the price for 10 models is not so good

Of course if you only pay 3 quid postage on enough armour to invade Iraq , that has to be good.

Another consideration is cash flow. Personally it would be hard for me to splash out like that all in one go. So for some it is just as well to pop to the LFGS.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Yes
but that would be different from a small order- which was my point
ie you order one or two figures each time- a couple for the sake of arguement
5x£3=£15 postage on top of the price for 10 models is not so good

Of course if you only pay 3 quid postage on enough armour to invade Iraq , that has to be good.

Another consideration is cash flow. Personally it would be hard for me to splash out like that all in one go. So for some it is just as well to pop to the LFGS.

Okay let me tell you what I had in mind for 'small'. A single box of SMs is $35 retail. I get it for $28 from WarStore because of discounting. If I pay the $5 in shipping (his standard rate), then I got it for $2 cheaper (not even counting tax) than if I bought it at the LGS AND it's delivered to my door.

Obviously the single figure for $15 is harder to swallow. BUT since I would get that figure for $13.50, even then the shipping is effectively cheaper again because the model's price is reduced.

I will concede that if I'm buying a $4 tub of static grass that the $5 shipping is kind of hard to swallow. That's why I wait until I want at least a full box worth of minis

privateer4hire wrote:

Obviously the single figure for $15 is harder to swallow. BUT since I would get that figure for $13.50, even then the shipping is effectively cheaper again because the model's price is reduced.

I will concede that if I'm buying a $4 tub of static grass that the $5 shipping is kind of hard to swallow. That's why I wait until I want at least a full box worth of minis

If all you are buying is a single 15$ model, then yes, the FLGS is cheaper, if you are willing to hold off on the single figure untill you get some more stuff you want to purchase (at the same time) then the Online medium is cheaper. If you are an impulse buyer, then of course, you probably love your LGS as much as the owner loves you (infact, all Retail places lurves der impulse buyers!).

However, if you are going out to your LGS (be it a 5 min or a 35 min drive) for a 4$ tub of static grass you might be better off just going to a local art store to get a MUCH cheaper deal (even then TWS) for such a small purchase. And consider this fact, assuming your store does not have a rule on minimum purchases for Credit, buying that 3$ thing of paint (if that is all your are buying) on credit actually LOSES the store money (as most credit cards have a minimum surcharge and also charge a set % of the transaction). So if all you really need is a jar of paint and your FLGS owner is a niceguy that doesnt set Credit Mins, don't use your check card as a visa at his store... go to an art store and let them soak the lost revenue. Or better yet, wait till you need more and buy from the LGS. Best case scenario... HIT UP A DAMN ATM! (I can't stand seeing people buy things like snacks and single paint jars with a credit card. One of my FLGS don't have a min limit as one person only has credit and occasionally only needs a soda or something, but because the owner is nice not to set a limit, some jackovz seem to think it means "Oh, every time I need a 1$ soda, I should make it a SEPERATE transaction with my mom's visa!) DON"T BE THAT GUY!

I try to pick up something ever time I go to my FLGS to play. My store is a MTG store mostly but they have built some awesome tables for 40k. I try to buy a set of models or at the minimum a pot of paint to show that 40k is present at the store.

Chiming in on the clubs sub-thread: I help run a club (PAGE CC) in Philadelphia (east coast US). For those sort of clued in about the area but not quite, it's about 40 minutes from Mikhaila's store. Just close enough that a couple guys go there from time to time, but probably just far enough to be slightly different "markets," particularly when you figure many in our club are true downtowners who rely on public transit, walking, etc.

The club meets once a week (Sunday evenings) in a building downtown owned by a long standing philosophy/activism organization (Philadelphia Ethical Society). The traditional club focus is on boardgaming, but miniatures and particularly 40k are a large and increasing aspect, and definitely currently the most energized.

Although small by many standards, I think the club's actually fairly successful. The big thing is that almost everyone can find people to game with. On any given week, you will find a variety of boardgames to hop into. On the monthly 40k convergence, you'll find a bunch of different armies and a good number of players (generally 12--17 players), and the club members work together to provide and transport terrain and so on, which many people don't have or can't get there.


In many ways it fills many of the roles of a good gaming store, which I see as including at least:

- Providing space to play. I think most people will happily play games with a larger set of people than those they would like to have traipsing all over their house. On top of that, public space can often run a lot more games. Especially in a dense urban area like ours, space at home to run more than a table or two is rare, let alone space to run the 12 or so we routinely run at the club (e.g., our recent pattern of 7--8 40k, 1 or 2 Warmachine, and 2--4 boardgames). Having that kind of space to all get together is great because it helps you meet new people, catch up with guys you may not be playing on a given night, suck in new players ("Wow, what are you guys playing?!?!"), and build an event atmosphere.

- Expose people to new games, systems, armies. Despite loving and following the fluff, I might never have gotten into actually playing 40k if I hadn't kept seeing a couple guys playing it at the club. Having a large pool of people bringing in games, armies, etc., really increases your level of exposure to the hobby, letting you find that next great thing you really love.

- Teaching and recruiting new players. A lot of our guys are happy to lend out armies for people to try playing, and a lot are super supportive of new players. Part of the reason I started playing 40k a lot is basically a couple of the guys gave me a lot of their unused models once they saw the gleam in my eye... Having that large group also keeps new perspectives coming in, so people learn a lot more about rules and tactics then they would playing the same couple people all the time. Ditto on painting and modeling skills and ideas.

- Providing terrain and other support. Myself and a couple other guys love building terrain, have space to store it, and can transport it to the meetings. Other people don't. Playing at the club provides a lot of our guys much better options in this regard then they would have on their own.

- Giving a community in which to geek out. Even though the club only meets once a week and 40k basically once a month plus the odd game here and there, there's a lot of chatter about games and specifically 40k on our listserve. A lot of people get that from great forums like Dakka as well, but it's cool to then actually see those people and get in a game with those people.

- Run special events. Especially for 40k, we have a pretty reasonable stream of stuff going on, whether it's the club outing to 'Ard Boyz or other external tournaments, our own relaxed tournaments, themed narrative nights, Apocalypse games, or whatever, people really get into that and having the club provides a larger pool of players and, critically, potential organizers.


In any event, such clubs definitely exist in America and I think have an important position in the gaming community.

Another point is that people are totally willing to pay for all of those features I list above (we basically charge $4/night to cover rent), so it makes no sense for anyone to argue that people playing at a store shouldn't be supporting that store in some way. Whether it's memberships to use store features or buying merchandise, I think that's a completely reasonable expectation. Even within our club, which runs a pretty decent periodic bulk discount purchase, all of the core 40k guys definitely put out and evangelize the perspective that if you're playing in a store, you should buy something. I admit that I hesitate to buy big stuff at full price, but myself and a bunch of the guys are all too happy to buy codexes, small boxes like Command Squads, etc., at local stores.

On that note, I think clubs and stores can definitely exist together. We've been unfortunate that there haven't been gaming stores right in downtown Philly in a while, but recently we've been slowly building up a relationship with a new store on the western edge of Center City (Redcap's). For an example of how they complement each other, one thing I think we're finding is that it's obviously easier for them to host small groups at weird times. They're a store, they're open basically all the time, and they have pretty good gaming space. You can reliably count on popping in with a friend to play a match and finding a table. Our kind of gaming would have to get a whole lot more popular for the club to justify paying that kind of rent (it's worth noting though that Philadelphia and most cities have many bridge, poker, and other full time gaming clubs). On the other hand, in some ways it's easier for the club to host less regular big events. We don't have to worry about things like crowding out all the cash-money Magic players with a large crowd of comparatively space-required-per-$$$ inefficient 40k players. So, I'm hoping we can work together with symbiotic events and efforts to continue growing 40k in Center City.

I get a lot of "deals" on ebay. I am a budget-hammer player and need to save wherever I can. With that said - I do purchase items often at my FLGS. All of my modleling supplies (greenstuff, paint, brushes, primer) all come from there and I just started to buy a box a month from them. They have a deal where you get in-store credit for the average of ten GW items you buy in under a year. So, for me - this adds up to about 20% off of everything when all is said and done. I will always be on the lookout for insane deals online however, but I do my best to pump whatever I can afford (litterally) into my FLGS whenever I can! If I had $400 to burn right now - I would head there this minute and buy up that salamnders force I have been dreaming about for the past twoo weeks.