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I played at Hero Zone in sandusky OH. It's kind of sparse on terrain but has lots of table space and some cool guys, though maybe not the best players. After I won the honors I donated my scratch built terrain just to get a little more interesting tables.

Last year's league tournament had 18 players and took place over about 3 months, with a game or three every monday night end results of this drawn out challenge was:

1) mixed mech/harlequin/gunline Eldar (mee!) 11/0/1

2) very fierce ghaz+boyz player 10/1/1 a very close second... fear the waagh... I just got lucky against him

3) drop pod heavy marines with 3 speeders 8/1/3

4th was the store owners carnifex heavy nids, who were pretty scary even before the new codex 8/2/2

5th went to space wolves... the player was kind of sub-par but his army kept him afloat

past that I don't remember who won what place. That FLGS has 18 players... 2 chaos, 1 BA, 1 SW, 8 nilla(is this common!?!?!), 1 nid, 1 guard, 1 tau, 1 ork, 1 eldar (mee!), 1 necron
I thought it was cool that some the armies that only are represented by one player did the best in the end. 1 Nid, 1 ork, 1 eldar all rocked the 13-14 MEQ the whole time (depending on if you count necrons as MEQ).

When the area is so stacked with MEQ you learn that more often than not you'll want you some plas and some power weapons, and get used to tailoring your list against MEQ, so it is kind of an unfair advantage - because they all tailor theirs versus MEQ too, so when they do get one of the wierdo Xenos players they don't know what to do. But there it is... don't be predictable I guess is the moral of this story.

San Luis Obispo, CA

1st: Chaos Space Marines (non-cult)
2nd: Daemonhunters
3rd: Dark Angels Doublewing (me)

4th: Ork Kan Wall
5th: Deathguard

Ozymandias wrote:San Luis Obispo, CA

1st: Chaos Space Marines (non-cult)
2nd: Daemonhunters
3rd: Dark Angels Doublewing (me)

4th: Ork Kan Wall
5th: Deathguard

O RLY?

List?

Played at Lost Legion Games in Princeton, WV (2 hours from me lol). 18 People attended.

1. Black Templars (4 LR with a bunch of super-termintators) 55
2. Space Wolves Cav 54 (me)
3. Salamanders (I think)

Very fun tournament.

Why certain armies performed well is directly relevant to the thread. Complaining about complaining, however, is not. Perhaps follow your own advice?

The topic of the thread was "How did everyone do?" not "OMG mission 3 still sucks", etc, etc. We get it. You don't like it. I don't like it. Nobody really liked it. If you want to bitch some more about it you can do it in this thead:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/295073.page

Hey I just wanted to point out how the makeup of the game community really affects the outcome and metagame analysis of which lists are best based on who comes in where. I won my tourney because I knew that I was playing against 3/4 MEQs, as did all the other xeno players who did well. It skews the analysis of 'which army does best?' when some game clubs have very predictable lists to play against. I think the only unbiased way of seeing 'who has the best codex' is at the big national cons where opponents aren't as predictable. If half the players are spamming rune priests and JoTWW (just for instance, or whatever flavor of the month codex is expected )then the other half already know to stay in their transports and plan accordingly when making a list. Sorry RP spam... too predictable, y'know?

Guitardian wrote:Hey I just wanted to point out how the makeup of the game community really affects the outcome and metagame analysis of which lists are best based on who comes in where. I won my tourney because I knew that I was playing against 3/4 MEQs, as did all the other xeno players who did well. It skews the analysis of 'which army does best?' when some game clubs have very predictable lists to play against. I think the only unbiased way of seeing 'who has the best codex' is at the big national cons where opponents aren't as predictable. If half the players are spamming rune priests and JoTWW (just for instance, or whatever flavor of the month codex is expected )then the other half already know to stay in their transports and plan accordingly when making a list. Sorry RP spam... too predictable, y'know?

This is known as the tailoring phenomenon. Exactly as you said, it works well at the local level but starts to fall apart the larger the sample you have. It stops becoming tailoring when you are adapting to 100 different players. Then it is called building an 'all comers list'.

As a side note, tailoring is often considered an anti-competitive crutch. Not for your opponent, but for you expanding your game and skills. Learning to take a flexible and adaptive list and then react to your opponent appropriately is one of the hallmarks of a true competitor.

Congrats to Ozymandias with hte Doublewing!! Very impressive that is.

G

Sorry, pretre, don't have his list. I'll ask on our local forums and see if I can get it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@BBF: Thanks!

Ozymandias wrote:Sorry, pretre, don't have his list. I'll ask on our local forums and see if I can get it.

No biggie. Just surprising. Between a doublewing and a DH in the top 3, that turns 'conventional wisdom' upside down for list building. Although it does reinforce the more sensible player > list idea.

pretre wrote:

Guitardian wrote:Hey I just wanted to point out how the makeup of the game community really affects the outcome and metagame analysis of which lists are best based on who comes in where. I won my tourney because I knew that I was playing against 3/4 MEQs, as did all the other xeno players who did well. It skews the analysis of 'which army does best?' when some game clubs have very predictable lists to play against. I think the only unbiased way of seeing 'who has the best codex' is at the big national cons where opponents aren't as predictable. If half the players are spamming rune priests and JoTWW (just for instance, or whatever flavor of the month codex is expected )then the other half already know to stay in their transports and plan accordingly when making a list. Sorry RP spam... too predictable, y'know?

This is known as the tailoring phenomenon. Exactly as you said, it works well at the local level but starts to fall apart the larger the sample you have. It stops becoming tailoring when you are adapting to 100 different players. Then it is called building an 'all comers list'.

As a side note, tailoring is often considered an anti-competitive crutch. Not for your opponent, but for you expanding your game and skills. Learning to take a flexible and adaptive list and then react to your opponent appropriately is one of the hallmarks of a true competitor.

Hey I completely agree with you, and much prefer 'take all comers' games, but when a certain codex just gets released and gets spammed in the same predictable way over and over, it's very hard to fight the urge to think to yourself "maybe I WON'T be playing against Blood Angels/Space woves again this week"... Everyone knows about Codex creep. It's hard to play competatively against an army that hits harder, costs less and has more options than your own. In a friendly game with my brother I just take what looks cool. In a competative tournament, I look at it like this:

Player A has the advantage of shiney new cheesey broken codex
Player B has the advantage of knowing in advance that half his opponents will be spamming the same cheese out of said codex, yet has inferior options, overpriced units, etc... psychehammer. If you can predict who is going to jump on the latest spam list in droves it makes up for your outdated codex. It's not my fault half the players pick JoTWW and I saw it coming the moment the dex came out, any more it's their fault that I happened to load up on power weapons.

It IS part of the game on a tournament level, to predict your likely opponent's list. The only people I ever hear complain about list-tailoring are MEQ players... who usually have the GW favoritism advantage in the first place... Well tough gak buddy, next time bring something I haven't seen 10 times before and I won't be sitting here waiting for you with my powerswords.

If lists didn't get cheesed in the first place I would be MUCH happier to bring my take all comers army, but that's just asking to lose against spammy flavor of the month codex creep.

The psychology of the player, to me, is just as much a part of the game as what cool new toys he gets to abuse into spam'n'cheese sandwiches and how good a list he can make with the flavor of the month (usually spam'n'cheese flavor) Codex. If Everyone around me were playing guard, I would be dumb to make an army that couldn't mow down with dakka. If everyone around is playing assault termie rush, I would be dumb to not plan for that with appropriate alterations too. If everyone is doing nidzilla, or lash+lash+olblits, you get used to just knowing what you are likely to face. Not taking appropriate precautions in your list build is like trying to play chess without your queen. You have to use every advantage, including psychological insight into what you are up against. That's not being a bad player, it's meta-gaming.

Guitardian wrote:Not taking appropriate precautions in your list build is like trying to play chess without your queen. You have to use every advantage, including psychological insight into what you are up against. That's not being a bad player, it's meta-gaming.

There is a difference between taking precautions and tailoring. Tailoring generally means you tool for that kind of opponent. i.e. MEQ killer. The problem with tailoring is your narrow focus gets you killed when something weird happens, like maybe a horde orks army.

Taking precautions is just smart. If you know that you may face Psychic powers, why wouldn't you take a hood? If you know that people might shoot at you and stun your vehicles, why wouldn't you take extra armor?

I'm not arguing taking precautions. I'm arguing against tailoring for 1-2 armies.

Of course this will get very potaeto/potahto pretty quick, so I'll probably concede we're saying the same thing in different ways.

edit: Oh and the whole point behind a good 'all comers' list is that it can take all threats. Even 'spammy FOTM lists'.

Up in Sacramento, CA we had:

1. 100 foot berzerkers with Kharn
2. Dual nob Bikers
3. Tau (ME!!! )

My first round was a draw against the #2 player and a lot of fun.

Second was major victory against a somewhat hodge podge Marines

3rd was a massacre against a mixed ork army.

MrDrumMachine wrote:Up in Sacramento, CA we had:

1. 100 foot berzerkers with Kharn
2. Dual nob Bikers
3. Tau (ME!!! )
/quote]


How did 100 foot bezerkers deal with walkers?? or pie plate spam? Must have had some good matchups. Sounds like fun.

I don't know who his first matchup was against but I heard he had 1 squad of zerkers covering 4 objectives and just mostly just weathered the fire.

Second was against a mostly SM biker army and he just cast out his zerkers as a net and boxed him in until he tabled him on turn 3 or 4.

3rd game was against mech IG and with 6 KP he didn't have to do much other than kill a couple things and not die, which he did.

I did not do too well. I came in 4th, but one of the top three cannot attend the regionals, so I probably will go.

It was a really fun and friendly day of gaming for everyone.

Showcase Comics, Brynmawr, PA:

1. Imperial Guard (Al Edel) - 54 pts - 6 Chimeras / 6 Hydras / 3 Vendetta / Lehman Russ variant / 2 PBS's in Chimeras
2. Chaos (Mike Ludwig) - 53 pts - 9 Oblits / 5 units of 7 Plague marines (Rhinos) / 3 units of Chosen (Rhinos) / 2 Sorcerers with lash
3. Wolves - 52 pts (myself) - 6 Razors with GH's / 3 Razors with WG / 6 Speeders / 2 LF units / 1 Librarian / Inquisitor

I had minor wins against both lists above and grabbed a massacre against a first round BA's player. Jack was a great guy and a fun opponent to face. His BA's jump pack list packed quite a punch although he decided not to get too close on the initial drop, i.e. Mystics, which allowed me to whittle down his forces as he approached.

My games against IG & Chaos went relatively well except for some key mistakes that I was fortunate enough to overcome. One such example was being up by 15 kill pts by turn 6 in round #3. I got overly aggressive and negelcted to move away from his meltas and pop smoke on my Razor's. His meltas hit a few Razors and Speeders which swung 12 kill pts over to him. A massacre turned into a minor win in the blink of an eye.

All in all, the competition was as fierce as expected. I look forward to round #2.

Paul

Great job NTT!

G

Steve, much appreciated!

One leg down, two more to go!

Paul

Antoich, CA

1st- daemons
2nd-Chaos Marines
3rd horde orks- (me)

Adventurer's Guild, Riverside, CA

1st - Nids (me)
2nd - Nids
3rd - Mech Guard

Timmah wrote:I feel like everyone who is surprised by Tau placing high has never actually played against a quality tau army/player before.

But w/e I guess.

I'll continue to tell my friends tau are bad because the internet told me and they will continue to laugh at me.

1. Tau (me)
2. tyranid
3. black templar


i agree i'll continue to tell people that tau suck as well

Ozymandias wrote:Sorry, pretre, don't have his list. I'll ask on our local forums and see if I can get it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@BBF: Thanks!

I'm glad to see more than one Double wing list worked =D! I need to compare your list and mine again. We should compare game plays and what not

Elite Hobbies, Dover, NH.

As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I arranged with the store owner and tournament organizer to have this on Friday so folks could play in the Boston Brawl. So we had 7 out of town tournament vets and 3 locals.

The locals ran IG, SM, and Eldar. The others were:

Wyatt Traina (ETC Team USA member, Adepticon Team Pink Shirts, formerly team Girls Gone Chaos) with mixed/light-mech Space Wolves. Wyatt went on to win overall at the Brawl.

Alex Fennell (ETC Team England member, Cold Steel Mercs) with Straken horde IG. Alex got Best Sports at the Brawl with his new pirate/battlewagon Orks.

Matt Cassidy (ETC USA alternate, Cold Steel Mercs) with Straken horde IG.

Sam Gould (Adepticon Team Pink Shirts, formerly team Girls Gone Chaos) with mixed/mech Slaaneshi CSM. Sam placed well at the Brawl and win Best Painted Mini there as well.

Ragnar Arneson (Cold Steel Mercs) with mixed/mech non-cult CSM.

Tom Greene (Cold Steel Mercs, former Warmonger) with semi-mech / assault marine heavy Shrike/Tigurius SM.

Leland Smith (Cold Steel Mercs) with mostly Deathwing with a small Ravenwing contingent, led by Belial & Samael. Leland won Player’s Choice (best army) and 2nd Best Painted Mini at the Brawl.

I played Leland in round 1, he went first and played a very aggressive game, targeting my oblits and putting me on the back foot early. I was able to recover with a couple of lucky melta shots, good assaults, and a single lesser daemon who just would not die in combat with Sammael and a dreadnought for around four or five turns of combat. A bit of late luck got me a 24pt Massacre. I probably would have been better off with a Draw or Minor, as the Massacre put me into the lead and…

Round 2 I got to play Alex’s IG. This army is a very tough one, but I have a bit of practice against it, so was able to give it a good fight. VP was a much better chance for me than KP against this army, and I got a Draw, +2 for quadrants. Sadly, this kept me in 2nd place, which meant…

Round 3 I got to play Matt’s IG. This was pretty much mathematically impossible for my 31 KP army to win. I reserved everything and resolved to snipe anything I could, hide Rhinos, and minimize the damage. Thanks to extremely careful play and two failed Lashes, I got away with a Major loss. If either or both of those two Lashes had worked, I might have scrounged a Minor loss. I got said Major Loss, +1 for having scored over 3000vps just in my first two games, so there was a few points.

1st was Matt’s IG
2nd Sam’s CSM
3rd Alex’s IG

I came 4th, and might get to go on if they don’t have a Regional close to Alex.

One small correction, I'm actually the ETC captain, Wyatt is the official team smack talker.

Where does Alex live? The semi final I know about is at battleground games in Abington MA.

Sorry Spacecurves, I should have remembered that. I went the whole weekend thinking it was Wyatt.

Alex is in CT, so I may be out of luck.

@Ozzy
Nice one! I am assuming that was Gordy taking second with his Daemon Hunters? If anyone would pull that off it would be him.

And who's CSM's? Was it Abe, or Alex or someone else?

Congratz on making the Semis, buddy.

little_eagle wrote:Adventurer's Guild, Riverside, CA

1st - Nids (me)
2nd - Nids
3rd - Mech Guard

Went here and was the 2nd place guy. It was a good venue, 18 people. Tons of Guard and MEQ. Aside from an Ork player, Eagle and I were the only non-imperials in the house. Eagle ran ABC Nids with Swarmlord. I pretty much ran Nidzilla 2.0 + Stealershock, led by Warrior Deathstar. About half the store were solid players, the other half casuals. Eagle deffinately earned it, I don't think I could have won against who he did with the army he fielded.

Mannahnin wrote:
I came 4th, and might get to go on if they don’t have a Regional close to Alex.

O_o?

I will not be denied my vengeance!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mannahnin wrote:
I came 4th, and might get to go on if they don’t have a Regional close to Alex.

O_o?

I will not be denied my vengeance!

Reecius wrote:@Ozzy
Nice one! I am assuming that was Gordy taking second with his Daemon Hunters? If anyone would pull that off it would be him.

And who's CSM's? Was it Abe, or Alex or someone else?

Congratz on making the Semis, buddy.

A new player to the club named Cooper took it overall with Word Bearers. Gordy took second with Daemonhunters. Alex took 5th cause I beat him in the third round.