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Who on Earth would ever consider the Tiger 2 a good tank?

I have a good sense of humor, but saying that America is defined by goose-stepping honestly crosses a line. I have family that died in World War 2, and my Step-Mothers parents were survivors of one of the Death Camps. As much fun as you may be poking by comparing American to Hitler and the Nazis, or the North Koreans, it honestly just is not funny.

=][= don't cross the personal attack line because you're upset over something someone else said, report if you don't like something -grey_death =][=

The goose-step is a marching style that was developed in the 18th century that was popular in the German Empire, among other places.

Its not just a Nazi thing.

It also stretched the hamstrings. It was cardio and stretching all in one. I also believe the salute was traditional in ancient Rome(correct me if I'm wrong).

Henners91 wrote: Who on Earth would ever consider the Tiger 2 a good tank?

The 503rd remained in the Hungarian theater of operations for 166 days, during which it accounted for at least 121 Soviet tanks, 244 anti-tank guns and artillery pieces, five aircraft and a train. This was at the loss of 25 Tiger IIs; ten were knocked out by Soviet troops and burned out, two were sent back to Vienna for a factory overhaul, while thirteen were blown up by their crews for various reasons, usually to prevent them from falling into enemy hands.

This thread needs more patriotism.

So if we look at actual kills(and not the ones the crews burned intentionally) that was
121 to 10 or about 12 soviet tanks for 1 german one. Not to mention the planes, train, and artillery they also killed.

The King Tiger was a fantastic tank and like many people say, it is rare to find a photo of a Tiger 2 that was knocked out due to a round penetrating the front armor. It would be easy to call the King Tigers a Demolisher Variant with strong front armor and weaker armor on the sides and weakest in the back. It also had a higher ammo capacity (60 to 30), but sat higher and could get stuck in sand.

In fact I think one battle the germans lost 3 King Tigers, 2 to enemy fire and the 3rd fell in a crater and got stuck.


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Wondering why it wasn't in here yet.

halonachos wrote:
The King Tiger was a fantastic tank and like many people say, it is rare to find a photo of a Tiger 2 that was knocked out due to a round penetrating the front armor.

The Tiger II was a fantastic mobile gun emplacement. In an offensive war, it would have been nearly useless as its maximum operational range was a little over 100 miles. Sure, it was difficult to knock out when position correctly, but it would have been very easy to simply drive around it. Think of it as the Maginot Line with treads.


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halonachos wrote:So if we look at actual kills(and not the ones the crews burned intentionally) that was
121 to 10 or about 12 soviet tanks for 1 german one. Not to mention the planes, train, and artillery they also killed.

If we're going to do that, then the 15:1 ratio is invalid as we are not provided with a detailed loss summary with respect to Soviet forces. In the absence of that we must use the total losses; giving a ratio of 5:1. At that pace the 492 Tiger IIs that were built would have been quickly wiped out by the 84,070 T-34s that were built. Moreover, its disingenuous to pretend that mechanical failure, fuel economy, and other similar factors are not to be included in an assessment of a vehicles combat effectiveness. It doesn't matter how awesomely powerful your tank is when it works if it only works 50% of the time, and can be easily outflanked or avoided.

We also have to remember that the Tigers were not representative of all German tanks, with only a little over 2,000 being built (regarding both types). Compare this to 6,000 Panthers, which was an even match for the T-34, and 8.000 Panzer IVs, which were inferior to the T-34.

Awesome. Somebody posts a perfectly friendly congrats on the 4th, plus bewbs (universal show of goodwill), and within a few pages, everyone is arguing.

Why can't the non-Americans let one picture of the stars and stripes be posted without reminding everyone that American isn't REALLY that great?

As far as Russia "winning" the war, that's ridiculous. The Allies won the war. That's Russia, the US, the UK, Canada, etc. All of these forces combined to defeat the Axis.

The Russians inflicted lots of casualties, sure... But American and British bombing raids, which cost a MASSIVE number of lives on both sides, hindered production of all sorts of war materials. Meanwhile the Lend Lease program was supplying Russia with war materials they lacked the capacity to produce.

It all came down to a combined effort by the Allies. To pick one nation as a "winner" is ridiculous, and it bespeaks a strangely pathological need to diminish the US, and build up everything that's not the US.

Seriously, it's desperate. And it's also not necessary. Just shut up, and wait a little while. You'll be able to watch the decline of the US in person. Give it 20 years, and the US will be a shadow of itself, and reality will much more closely resemble the facricated history you imagine.

Actually, how DID this end up with WWII?

*reads thread*

Hmmm...Damn you Shadowbrand!

I don't think anyone said that Russia won the war. Sebster said that Russia defeated Germany, which I consider a fair assessment insofar as 'defeated' is equivalent to 'contributed the most to defeating', but I can't be certain that's what he meant. That's merely my assessment after having read many of his posts.

Well, I'm pretty sure it was Russia that went into Berlin and caused Hitler to off himself or create Iron Skull. Or get on a U-boat to Antartica. (Whichever you believe

Also, I don't make much sence in real life too. And EF, why in the name of Slannesh's third shalong is it always me? D:

Shadowbrand wrote:Well, their all dead now. So they got fethed the most.

Also Britain did defeat Napolean and Hitler. Give them a break.

Well both times they had Russias help. Whoa, did I just remember something I read? Sweet.

You. Then this.

thegrav wrote:Hitler was not defeated by the Russians and British...They had a "little" help... You need to review your history there.

It was your fault Shadowbrand! Your fault! The tears of 1000 internet kittens are on your hands!!


Actually, this reminds me of the wierdest conversation the other day:

Friend 1: "If Hitler suddenly rocked up, alive and all, and tried to recruit you into the newly formed SS, what would you say?"
Friend 2: "Does he have hot Nazi Womenz with him?"
Friend 1: "Um...yes?"
Friend 2: "Hellz Yeah!"

Still can't figure out where that one came from.

Its not my fault that Hitler wasn't defeated by Russians and British. D:

I remember reading that he really got into the paranormal and paganism with the SS and his goverment when he started losing the war.

Clearly they did not rape and plunder enough for the allfather's blessing. I know this to be true because when I went to Valhalla there was just Tom Cruise and Rommel.

halonachos wrote:So if we look at actual kills(and not the ones the crews burned intentionally) that was
121 to 10 or about 12 soviet tanks for 1 german one. Not to mention the planes, train, and artillery they also killed.

The King Tiger was a fantastic tank and like many people say, it is rare to find a photo of a Tiger 2 that was knocked out due to a round penetrating the front armor. It would be easy to call the King Tigers a Demolisher Variant with strong front armor and weaker armor on the sides and weakest in the back. It also had a higher ammo capacity (60 to 30), but sat higher and could get stuck in sand.

In fact I think one battle the germans lost 3 King Tigers, 2 to enemy fire and the 3rd fell in a crater and got stuck.


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Wondering why it wasn't in here yet.

Add in the fact that the King Tiger had to be moved on a truck, broke down tons and (please bear in mind I am no gearhead, I don't know these things for certain) I imagine couldn't be produced anywhere near as fast as the equivocal number of T-34s (let's say, using your figures, 12 T-34s...) makes it an inferior model.

If we're going to talk about effective German tanks, why does nobody wheel out the STUG? Or the slightly more-commonly cited Nashorn? The former for its kill-count and the latter for its awesome K/D ratio (yes I play too much CoD).


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Phryxis wrote:Awesome. Somebody posts a perfectly friendly congrats on the 4th, plus bewbs (universal show of goodwill), and within a few pages, everyone is arguing.

Why can't the non-Americans let one picture of the stars and stripes be posted without reminding everyone that American isn't REALLY that great?

'Cos to tell you on any other day would just be insensitive

It's the only time we can whine about it being "in-our-face" :(

Plus, the Brits are bad losers (look at the World Cup, lalalalal).

thegrav wrote:I have a good sense of humor, but saying that America is defined by goose-stepping honestly crosses a line. I have family that died in World War 2, and my Step-Mothers parents were survivors of one of the Death Camps. As much fun as you may be poking by comparing American to Hitler and the Nazis, or the North Koreans, it honestly just is not funny.

TRANSLATION: 'I am entitled to be offended by that, and would like to excercise my right to do so.'

I have family that died in World War 2

Close to them, were you?

^-- That isn't the point.

I think this thread can continue without me. Have fun all.

I'm pretty sure most people posting here have ancestors that died in the war... I'm related to people who died on both sides

Didn't know them though, obviously.

I guess the West isn't allowed to have it's day in the sun.

Well, I love my country and I think it's the greatest country on Earth. Don't agree. That's your right to do so. Unless you live in this country then I say "GTFO and don't let the door hit you in the ass."

I live in this country, and I don't think its the greatest country on Earth. Mostly because I think the creation of such a hierarchy is a total waste of time.

Also, no nation, or region, is allowed its day in the sun. It only leads to empty rhetoric for the control of plebes.

Edit: The sun brings life an warmth, the son brings pedophilia.

Shadowbrand wrote:I remember reading that he really got into the paranormal and paganism with the SS and his goverment when he started losing the war.

It was actually Hitler's fascination with the paranormal from a very young man that started his thought process of world domination. In fact, it was when he was in Vienna and was introduced to the alleged "Spear of Destiny"....

read Mein Kampf, man.

dogma wrote:I live in this country, and I don't think its the greatest country on Earth. Mostly because I think the creation of such a hierarchy is a total waste of time.

Also, no nation, or region, is allowed its day in the son. It only leads to empty rhetoric for the control of plebes.

It's definitely not the greatest now, not with our dimwit Kenyan, terrorist lover in charge but I digress. It'll be a good country again when HE is out of office.

I disagree. If I was celebrating the 4th and someone interrupted my festivities to tell me how their country is better or how this one sucks they'd have exactly 10 seconds to get off my lawn before I showed them the error of their ways.

Fateweaver wrote:
It's definitely not the greatest now, not with our dimwit Kenyan, terrorist lover in charge but I digress. It'll be a good country again when HE is out of office.

That's not very patriotic. The idea of patriotism is supposed to transcend leadership.

In other news: Awww, wook at da widdle wight winger.

Fateweaver wrote:
I disagree. If I was celebrating the 4th and someone interrupted my festivities to tell me how their country is better or how this one sucks they'd have exactly 10 seconds to get off my lawn before I showed them the error of their ways.

What if they told you that celebrating something you didn't contribute to is tacit to opening oneself to manipulation without cause?

Fateweaver wrote:

dogma wrote:I live in this country, and I don't think its the greatest country on Earth. Mostly because I think the creation of such a hierarchy is a total waste of time.

Also, no nation, or region, is allowed its day in the son. It only leads to empty rhetoric for the control of plebes.

It's definitely not the greatest now, not with our dimwit Kenyan, terrorist lover in charge but I digress. It'll be a good country again when HE is out of office.

Fateweaver wrote:I guess the West isn't allowed to have it's day in the sun.

Well, I love my country and I think it's the greatest country on Earth. Don't agree. That's your right to do so. Unless you live in this country then I say "GTFO and don't let the door hit you in the ass."

Is it 'cos you were born in it?

Fateweaver wrote:

dogma wrote:I live in this country, and I don't think its the greatest country on Earth. Mostly because I think the creation of such a hierarchy is a total waste of time.

Also, no nation, or region, is allowed its day in the son. It only leads to empty rhetoric for the control of plebes.

It's definitely not the greatest now, not with our dimwit Kenyan, terrorist lover in charge but I digress. It'll be a good country again when HE is out of office.

I disagree. If I was celebrating the 4th and someone interrupted my festivities to tell me how their country is better or how this one sucks they'd have exactly 10 seconds to get off my lawn before I showed them the error of their ways.

It scares me to think the majority of male white Americans feel the way you do... Obama would be on the political right in this country

Ah well, racism ftw eh?!

Fateweaver is pretty extreme in this country. Not radical right, but he is a pretty good example of a very stereotypical angry white male.

Either that, or he's an elaborate farce, conducted by somebody trying to make the right look ridiculous.

Polonius wrote:Fateweaver is pretty extreme in this country. Not radical right, but he is a pretty good example of a very stereotypical angry white male.

Either that, or he's an elaborate farce, conducted by somebody trying to make the right look ridiculous.

Stereotypical? I don't stereotype. I think everyone that isn't me is inferior.

So chew on them apples.

I love that this has gone from a celebration of July 4th to calling people racists.

I love my country and I celebrate July 4th just like every other country in the world celebrates independence day or the October Revolution or what have you. I am really sick of people on this forum turning what should have been a simple "yay us" thread into a forum to spout their political crap.

And yes, I would do exactly as fateweaver said if someone showed up in my backyard. When did having pride in your country and the good things it stands for become unacceptable?

And since when do you have to contribute to something to celebrate it? I celebrate my parent's birthdays without having done anything to contribute to them just as I celebrate Christmas and Thanksgiving.

Honestly, for those of you from across the pond, what is the draw to bashing The United States? I am genuinely curious. Yes, sometimes the "loud, American" can be annoying (I spent several years in Europe). Do we really piss you off that much?

Sgt_Scruffy wrote:And since when do you have to contribute to something to celebrate it? I celebrate my parent's birthdays without having done anything to contribute to them just as I celebrate Christmas and Thanksgiving.

When I celebrate my parents' birthdays I celebrate my parents' lives, and I have certainly contributed to their lives. Similarly, I consider Christmas and Thanksgiving (especially Thanksgiving) to be celebrations of family, not some event in the distant past.

The 4th of July is a celebration of America, but it often gets perverted into a celebration of America's past accomplishments. This is fine for people who contributed to those accomplishment, but its tacky in those instances in which they haven't.

For example, no one would take credit for their father's youth baseball trophies. They might say "Yeah, pops, that must have been awesome.", but they won't say "Yeah pops, we're awesome cause you won that."

I haven't seen much America-bashing in this thread.

I've noticed that in most threads where America-bashing is claimed