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IAmTheWalrus wrote:

Corvus wrote:

IAmTheWalrus wrote:
You're going to have to wake up early (unless you're in the Air Force), do things you don't want to do, go places you don't want to go (unless you're in the Air Force), exercise every day (unless you're in the Air Force), and work longer hours (unless you're in the Air Force) for less pay than your civilian counterparts.

Haters gonna hate. Everyone is jealous of us because we can blow up entire countries from the comfort of our office and be home in time for dinner on the same day. Feels good man

Not hating man, just preaching the truth. And you may be able to blow up entire countries, but damned if I ever met an airman that knew the loud end of the rifle was the one you point at the enemy.

What he is not telling you is that while the Air Force has some superior benefits(Not all of those mentioned are always true, btw), they also have some real negatives. Here are a few:

1)Your so smart you'll work for less- The Air Force will stroke your ego by telling you that they have the highest intelligence standards and that you should join the other smart people by enlisting at a lower pay grade and serve in the branch that has the slowest pay/rank advancement.

2)Ambassadors in blue- The Air Force is the most uptight of the military branches. Where other branches you can shrug of a bad performance review, LoCs, LoRs and even the occassional article 15 the Air force will kill your career over minor infractions.

3)Air Force Bases are often located in areas with high costs of living and the Air Force is one of the stingiest branches when it comes to BAQ allowances.

4)Not all Air Force have it cushy- There are Pararescue, FACs, Combat Communications Groups, Flight-line security(Try Standing Guard on a Flight-line in Minot or Rammstein winter. Try Summertime in Mississippi or West Texas ), Remote bases the have year round snow and under equipped units that are using army hand-me-downs from 20 years before. Check up on the job your signing for, some sound real good until you find out where you will be based. Heck, the life of a loadmaster can stink if you get stuck on the wrong rotation.

@Walrus- I'll bet my 4 marksmen ribbons against your statement about Airmen and Rifles.

LordofHats wrote:

metallifan wrote:You lose 2 internets for not knowing about Top Gear, the best auto show in the whole time of forever.

Drats

Never saw that when I was in England. About the only channel we got was the 24/7 teletubbie channel, or at least I don't remember there ever being anything on but teletubbies.

That's the live feed from the House of Commons channel.

metallifan wrote:
Wow. It's a good thing you pointed that out, or else none of us would've known the truth about it *eyeroll*

Yes, you go to fight. You go to do your job first and foremost, but that isn't to say that you're completely removed from experiencing local culture while you're there. In fact, most of the NCOs and Officers from our Reg. that came back from seemed to feel pretty good about their time there. The only time it's really hit us hard was when we lost a Master Corporal attached to the PPCLI.

Well someone who is thinking about joining military may not know? I think it is good to clearly point it out.

Well I don't think you couldn't have nice times on military service abroad. And I do believe there are some nice places to go nowadays that are pretty safe for peace keeping for example.

metallifan wrote:

If you wear a military uniform with the goal of picking up women, you're not looking for the kind of girl you'd take home to meet the folks man. If that's what you were after, you'd probably try using a little more tact than that. But hey, I've only been in a steady relationship for the last two years. What do I know, eh?

Well perhaps yea. But does it still take that uniform?
OT: Here in Finland we don't have uniforms like you do have there. We just have M05 "BDU" and beret and that is our "uniform".

metallifan wrote:You wanted to know what was useful about military service, I told you. You can take it or leave it, but the facts are still right there.

Yeah I am not leaving it. I know what you mean.

metallifan wrote:
A) I actually thouht before I typed.
B)I'd knock you one for referring to it as 'Boy Scouts' considering one of our guys got killed just last year, but you're not within reach and I've pretty much come to terms with senseless morons living on da' interwebz
C) If you're going to try and make up an insult, at least get your wars right. Canada isn't in Iraq, on account of the fact that we have no reason for being there.That's an American war. As for my not going, I tried. But the chance of a Private in a CF Reserve Regiment getting to go would be like winning a lottery. That chance tends to get passed off to NCOs, as they're less likely to catch a bullet.

But you've never even put in any military service. So you'd clearly know more about all that 'army stuff'.

A) What makes you think i didn't think before I typed?
B) He died in what situation? Was he the master corporal or someone else? And no I don't think you are some senseless moron in the internet. But I think the question is that are you thinking that I am?
C) No I am not trying to make insult and yeah I know that Canada isn't in Iraq. It was just a fictional scenario to point out that would have you joined to forces so light-minded if you'ld known there is a chance you are sended to a iraq for example? Or would that have made you think about it more? Becouse some of these guys are going to military service in us which isn't same thing as the military service in canada am I right?

And yeah I've been in military service actually. I was a military police in airforce.

metallifan wrote:

Corvus wrote:And I won't lie, in the US at least, the money and benefits are great. I'm 19 with no college degree and I'm making a nice steady paycheck with free housing, food, and medical care. Also when I do decide to pursue a degree, the Air Force can fund it.

This.

When I was back in college, my first year in I was making $360/2wk base pay off of 2 3hr training sessions Monday, Wednesday, and Friday nights, and then weekends we spend Saturday and half of Sunday at the armoury. As a college student, that's huge money considering they also paid course fees and covered your books. If you had spare time and wanted more cash, you were free to show up and clean the tits out of the place during the week (not that it was at all dirty, but nothing cleans floor polish like more polishing )

Well that is nice money. Here in finland they paid my rent + about 150e a month.. So could've used a bit more money. But yeah that was ok becouse we have mandatory service here instead of volunteers.



And really I do understand some of the reasons you go to the military. But some of them sound little bit odd to my ear. But maybe its the cultural difference? For example the patriotism. We are patriotic here in finland too but I think in different way..

"If you go abroad you go to a freaking war.. "

Okay, non-war or non- peace keeping assignments either my wife or I have been on:

Panama, Belize, Costa Rica, Germany, Italy, France, UK, Dom Rep, Egypt, Quatar, Caiman Islands, Guam (and from there Saipan, Palau, Truk).

US Army: World tours.

"Not hating man, just preaching the truth. And you may be able to blow up entire countries, but damned if I ever met an airman that knew the loud end of the rifle was the one you point at the enemy."

Guess you never worked with PJs or SPs.

CptJake wrote:"If you go abroad you go to a freaking war.. "

Okay, non-war or non- peace keeping assignments either my wife or I have been on:

Panama, Belize, Costa Rica, Germany, Italy, France, UK, Dom Rep, Egypt, Quatar, Caiman Islands, Guam (and from there Saipan, Palau, Truk).

US Army: World tours.

Can you tell me about those? So what did you guys do? Were those some kind of educational events, demonstrations or what? Is there a possibility to every soldier in us force to get on that kind of tours or are those for some officers or something?

Xenon wrote:

CptJake wrote:"If you go abroad you go to a freaking war.. "

Okay, non-war or non- peace keeping assignments either my wife or I have been on:

Panama, Belize, Costa Rica, Germany, Italy, France, UK, Dom Rep, Egypt, Quatar, Caiman Islands, Guam (and from there Saipan, Palau, Truk).

US Army: World tours.

Can you tell me about those? So what did you guys do? Were those some kind of educational events, demonstrations or what? Is there a possibility to every soldier in us force to get on that kind of tours or are those for some officers or something?

British Army has plenty of overseas postings which don't involve getting shot at. Depending upon your chosen regiment or trade this can be for a number of reasons ranging from humanitarian like helping to build schools in places such as Sierra Leone to Educational courses like jungle warfare in Belize. Both UK and US forces maintain bases all around the world, some such as our bases in Germany date back to the aftermath of WW2. One of my mates saw out the last few months of his time in the REME fixing dodgy wiring on trailers in Canada. Where you get posted is pretty much luck of the draw, you can volunteer for certain postings but for the most part you go where you are told to. There are no "safe" jobs in the military, just less dangerous ones. If you join the British army to do a trade one of the first things you get told is that you are a soldier first and a trade second.

focusedfire wrote:

What he is not telling you is that while the Air Force has some superior benefits(Not all of those mentioned are always true, btw), they also have some real negatives. Here are a few:

1)Your so smart you'll work for less- The Air Force will stroke your ego by telling you that they have the highest intelligence standards and that you should join the other smart people by enlisting at a lower pay grade and serve in the branch that has the slowest pay/rank advancement.

2)Ambassadors in blue- The Air Force is the most uptight of the military branches. Where other branches you can shrug of a bad performance review, LoCs, LoRs and even the occassional article 15 the Air force will kill your career over minor infractions.

3)Air Force Bases are often located in areas with high costs of living and the Air Force is one of the stingiest branches when it comes to BAQ allowances.

4)Not all Air Force have it cushy- There are Pararescue, FACs, Combat Communications Groups, Flight-line security(Try Standing Guard on a Flight-line in Minot or Rammstein winter. Try Summertime in Mississippi or West Texas ), Remote bases the have year round snow and under equipped units that are using army hand-me-downs from 20 years before. Check up on the job your signing for, some sound real good until you find out where you will be based. Heck, the life of a loadmaster can stink if you get stuck on the wrong rotation.

@Walrus- I'll bet my 4 marksmen ribbons against your statement about Airmen and Rifles.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the AF gets next to no respect compared to the Army/Navy/Marine Corps. We work hard and do an excellent job providing logisitics, security, intelligence, and air support to the guys on the ground, but at the end of the day people look at us and and say "LOL CHAIR FORCE YOU DONT DO REAL WORK". I've basically seen people try to say that our service does not matter because we don't kick in doors and shoot people dead all the time. Im not suggesting that we deserve the same respect as the guys on the ground, but it would be nice if we got a little more recognition from the public and a fewer overused jokes.

I'm an officer in the Air Force. I am currently deployed to Afghanistan and am assigned to the Army while I'm here. This is because the Army is low on manning when it comes to certain career fields and the Air Force and the Navy both said they'd lend the Army a hand. In my time with the Army I've noticed many cultural differences. I agree with some and I disagree with others. The Air Force does seem to spend more money on troop morale and welfare in my opinion. They have some of the best housing here and back home, Air Force bases are the gold standard when it comes to bases/posts/etc. However, I live like the Army over here, since I'm assigned to them. All of the military branches serve a purpose and we work better together. That is why we focus so much on joint operations these days.

As far as the Air Force being useless, just remember that you get flown over here to fight (by the Air Force) and we're the ones dropping bombs on bad guys when you need it so you're not overrun.

The myth that everyone in the Air Force is fat and out of shape and that the other branches are not is false. I've seen plenty of out of shape people in all of the services right here in Afghanistan. I will give the Marines props though, they tend to be the least out of shape over all from my experience.

Not all officers are worthless as the movies and jokes would have you think and not all enlisted personnel are uber cool super sergeants who save the world. I've come across my share of scum bags from both the officer and enlisted sides of the house. I've also come across some truly exceptional officers and enlisted. People I'd follow into battle and put my life in their hands or would count on for advice that would save the lives of my airmen. To the OP, if you have the desire and patience, I'd go to college and join the ROTC program of your choice. That way you have college done with and if the military doesn't work out you're set for the future. If it does, you have a pretty decent paying job right out of school with no job hunting. Depending on the career field you could be in charge of lots of people from the very beginning, like me. Being in the military is great for learning leadership skills. If you are an officer, regardless of your career choice, you will have transferable skills because you will have led people and managed programs.

If I didn't go in as an officer, I would have considered going in enlisted as well. There were already comments on the thread about having a stable job, a house, health care, valuable training, etc. This is all true and you get it right out of high school if that's what you are thinking. Also, I joined the military for several reasons. I don't think any of the reason in this thread are bad. Contrary to popular belief, it's a good decision to join the military for pay, especially if your wife just got pregnant and you don't have a job that will support a family. In fact, I'd say it's a pretty good decision at that point (I am not in this situation, but I have friends who are). Also contrary to popular belief, it's okay to feel patriotism in your country and want to serve your country and family and friends and in part the world. That was part of the reason I joined. It's okay to join for educational purposes. It's also okay to join if you're lost in life and don't know what to do. I think the only reason I would advise against joining is if you simply want to go and shoot people just because in the military you're authorized to do so. But that's just my opinion.

Respectfully,
DarkAngelHopeful

V/R
Richard Hart

Yeah i wasnt gonna bother chipping in with military gak because i dont like to look like one of those sad bastards who gives it the "charlie big spuds" via an internet forum, but seeing as your off to talk to the men on Friday ill give you some easy advice.

I think you know from a young age if you really want to join up.

I wanted to be a Green Beret since i was a kid, i joined the Territorial Army to get some training done early, tried out for the RM, failed, tried again, got accepted in at 19 and won my beret a few months before my 21st birthday.

In a nutshell if you like the idea of spending a great deal of time away from home, its great.But you have to be fully aware of what to expect, i fully expected to be away alot, and im from Middlesbrough, so my attitude was "great, i dont want to stay here anyway!" and there was a long running joke when i was in Baghdad ("Matty is the only guy who wants to stay here!")

Basically, if the guy has to "sell" it to you, then its not for you. Dont go in if you want big bucks, paying through college, great training so you can get a better job when you leave etc..

If your sentance ends in "when i leave" (this will pay for X for when i leave, this will mean i can get a good job when i leave etc) then you probably wont enjoy it. You need to be 100% committed, not look at your service as a "gateway" but as a vocation. I firmly believe that you get out of it what you put into it.

I fully expected to never be at home, not get paid alot, spend alot of time in war-zones and gak holes, and thats why i joined, life experience, outside the comfort zone. War! (we were all excited when we got told we were off to Afghanistan for example) screw sitting on my arse bored and drunk at home all the time, i can do that when im older!

And i absolutely loved it.

Ten years in, first men on the ground In Iraq and Afghanistan, numerous enemy contacts, grenades flying, A-10s bombing the gak out the Taliban, i thought it was fething mint. If i hadnt made the missus sit through so many tours and i hadnt started feeling my age, i would still be in! And i often look back and wish i never left..

So yeah, dont let em sell it to you, go in because you want it, and really aspire to be a professional, and be "the best" and i guarantee you will enjoy it.

If your one of the clowns that gets told "0h if your a good boxer, you can box for the navy! You wont have to deploy, you can just play sports for a living!" or you just want money, and as much time as possible on vacation, then your in for some disapointment.

Xenon wrote:
Well someone who is thinking about joining military may not know? I think it is good to clearly point it out.

Well I don't think you couldn't have nice times on military service abroad. And I do believe there are some nice places to go nowadays that are pretty safe for peace keeping for example.

Not everyone who joins goes into active service. Some people, like myself, may not have that option locally, and may not want to move away from town for at least 6 years. As far as "easy" jobs, there's always Embassy duty for more experienced guys, and postings in foreign bases - especially for Americans. They seem pretty big on that stuff.

Well perhaps yea. But does it still take that uniform?
OT: Here in Finland we don't have uniforms like you do have there. We just have M05 "BDU" and beret and that is our "uniform".

I actually met her post-service days. So she never saw the uniform. And that sounds like a standard uniform to me. Ours is just CADPAT and our Berets. And boots (obviously ) Of course, we've got all of our combat gear too, but as far as informal dress goes that's pretty much what we've got.

A) What makes you think i didn't think before I typed?

Just the whole 'government is bad! Wars of freedom are just excuses' thing.

B) He died in what situation? Was he the master corporal or someone else? And no I don't think you are some senseless moron in the internet. But I think the question is that are you thinking that I am?

MCpl Erin Doyle died in combat.

That's him on the far left with the beard. He was RMRANG's first KIA since the Korean War. And as long as you can maintain this level of civility, no I won't take you as a moron.

C) No I am not trying to make insult and yeah I know that Canada isn't in Iraq. It was just a fictional scenario to point out that would have you joined to forces so light-minded if you'ld known there is a chance you are sended to a iraq for example? Or would that have made you think about it more? Becouse some of these guys are going to military service in us which isn't same thing as the military service in canada am I right?

Although none of the privates got the chance to go over, we all had our hopes up. See, things work differently for Reservists when it comes to shipping out. Whereas Reg Force is required to go over, for Reservists it's choice. We volunteer for a ToD because we -want- to go, not because we're obligated.If anything, I'd say that takes more balls than just being told to get on a plane and stay for the ride.

And yeah I've been in military service actually. I was a military police in airforce.

Well that is nice money. Here in finland they paid my rent + about 150e a month.. So could've used a bit more money. But yeah that was ok becouse we have mandatory service here instead of volunteers.

Damn, that's right. I forgot Finland and Germany have mandatory service. We could really use that over here IMHO. People complain about not having a job, but no one thinks about joining the military. It's not exactly rocket appliance.

And really I do understand some of the reasons you go to the military. But some of them sound little bit odd to my ear. But maybe its the cultural difference? For example the patriotism. We are patriotic here in finland too but I think in different way..

Most people just join as a means of paying their way through college. With the average first-year tuition fees in much of NA in the range of $18,000 and books generally in the $2,000-$4,000 range, most students would be paying off loans for the rest of their lives without military help. Then you've got family tradition, you might want training for the civilian sector through practical means rather than relying on booksmarts (IMO, practical learning is better than sitting and listening to some prof give lectures), You may even just want something snappy-looking on your Resumé. In most cases, if an employer sees military service on your resumé, you'll instantly be their favorite.

focusedfire wrote:

@Walrus- I'll bet my 4 marksmen ribbons against your statement about Airmen and Rifles.

There's always an exception to the rule, and my statement was tongue-in-cheek. I just find it hard to trust a service, who's primary job is defending the country, that produces Airmen out of basic that have only shot a rifle once, and most haven't even qualified.

Corvus wrote:
Another thing to keep in mind is that the AF gets next to no respect compared to the Army/Navy/Marine Corps. We work hard and do an excellent job providing logisitics, security, intelligence, and air support to the guys on the ground, but at the end of the day people look at us and and say "LOL CHAIR FORCE YOU DONT DO REAL WORK". I've basically seen people try to say that our service does not matter because we don't kick in doors and shoot people dead all the time. Im not suggesting that we deserve the same respect as the guys on the ground, but it would be nice if we got a little more recognition from the public and a fewer overused jokes.

I'll buy the air support for a dollar, but an excellent job on the rest is a little bit of a joke. I think where the AF gets the bad reputation is that for the amount of funding you guys get, as a service you're not all that useful and way over-funded. I've seen Army and Marine units struggling to find the money to clean out asbestos insulated barracks while the Air Force buys new Wiis and plasma screen TVs for theirs, while at the same time building a freaking monument to no one in particular, just to burn through the budget. Additionally, the Air Force has close to, if not the same amount, of officers as the Army. Yet the Army is twice the size of the Air Force. I understand flying billets but the rest of it is just the old guard of fighter pilots not wanting to downsize the officer corps even though the jobs could be done more easily and better by NCOs.

In my opinion most of the Air Force is a money-guzzling relic of the Cold War that either needs to be trimmed down severely, or reintegrated into the Army to ensure better inter-branch cooperation and efficiency.

Xenon wrote:

CptJake wrote:"If you go abroad you go to a freaking war.. "

Okay, non-war or non- peace keeping assignments either my wife or I have been on:

Panama, Belize, Costa Rica, Germany, Italy, France, UK, Dom Rep, Egypt, Quatar, Caiman Islands, Guam (and from there Saipan, Palau, Truk).

US Army: World tours.

Can you tell me about those? So what did you guys do? Were those some kind of educational events, demonstrations or what? Is there a possibility to every soldier in us force to get on that kind of tours or are those for some officers or something?

Trying to get military secrets, eh? We're on to you.

What I can tell you from my service a couple of decades back is that you have various support units and goodwill tours. If you happen to get assigned to a unit that pulls a lot of TDYs(Temporary Duty Assignments) you can end up on one of Uncle Sams World Tours and traveling clown shows. This last isn't meant as a sign of disresptect but is or at least was an inside joke about the necessity of some the "good will" missions. I understand the importance and need of medical goodwill missions but had trouble understanding the need for traveling honour guards being sent around the world as a part of diplomacy.

Hopefully this will give you an idea as to the range of non-combat TDYs without getting into too much detail.

Golden Eyed Scout wrote:I have an appointment at my local Navy recruiter for wednesday. I might try and reschedule it for Friday so my dad can come.
Seeing as there are military members on dakka, can you give me any advice on what to expect?

Having been in the Navy 3 years goin on 4, I know a little bit about what's going on. Anything that he promises you, make sure it is on the contract. Answer every question truthfully. Pick a job you want and do not settle for anything else. They have to push new recruits into the undermanned jobs, so don't be afraid to hardball em for what you want. If you want to travel the world the Navy and Air Force are what you want. It's gonna suck at first until you learn the lifestyle, and until you learn the life you will hate every second of it.

IAmTheWalrus wrote:

focusedfire wrote:

@Walrus- I'll bet my 4 marksmen ribbons against your statement about Airmen and Rifles.

There's always an exception to the rule, and my statement was tongue-in-cheek. I just find it hard to trust a service, who's primary job is defending the country, that produces Airmen out of basic that have only shot a rifle once, and most haven't even qualified.

Things must have changed. Back in the day the Air Force recycled you back a week or two in basic if you didn't qualify. Also, When I was in the Air Force had at least annual qualification for all jobs. Then the units that were considered to be combat oriented were required to have unit level qualifications every 3-6 months. The unit level qualification tests awarded no ribbons but rather were a part of your performance reviews. The Annual qualifiers were the ones that got you the chest bling.

As to your statement about the Air force and trust. Let we me tell you about a marine that was cross training into a job that at the time only the Air Force offered. He had to undergo an abbrevieatted basic training and was in my flight. He almost washed out. He was amazed at the psychological pressure that the Air Force enlisted have to undergo. He often commented about how the physical requirements were a joke but the non-stop pressure of having to decide when to follow orders and when to not do so almost got to him.

This pressure in basic had to do with the Air Force controlling the majority of the US's nuclear arsenal and the policy of one officer and one enlisted manning the switches in the missile silo's. A part of the enlisted man's job was to say no to a superior under certain conditions. This saying no included pulling your side arm and shooting the Superior if the situation warranted such. How this applies to basic is that the Air Force would constantly put its "Canned Pickles"(New recruits) in a situation of having to say no to a superior officer.

Here is an example: As a part of our orientation we were introduced to the base commander and our unit commanders in both formation and the classroom. We all knew who they were. We also had to pull Dorm Guard duties. Note, that the Airforce does not use those nice independent Barracks but instead you are in a fortified multi-story building that is similar in design to modern prisons. Now you are pulling Dorm Guard duties in a room with no outside view except throught the 1' x 1' reinforced pexi-glass window at the door. Suddenly, the Unit commander appears at said window at, 2 AM, demanding to be let in because of some emergency(Fire in the walls was the last excuse tried on me). Your orders from your "Sergeant" are that no one enters withou showing their ID. You ask for the ID and the Colonel starts screaming at you and threatening you for jepoardizing lives by wasting time. If you opened the door you were dead meat. One guy got the base commander(a general) and actually opened the door. We all suffered for his mistake the for the week following. Now this was back in the day but much of the same responsibilities are still there.

IAmTheWalrus wrote:

Corvus wrote:
Another thing to keep in mind is that the AF gets next to no respect compared to the Army/Navy/Marine Corps. We work hard and do an excellent job providing logisitics, security, intelligence, and air support to the guys on the ground, but at the end of the day people look at us and and say "LOL CHAIR FORCE YOU DONT DO REAL WORK". I've basically seen people try to say that our service does not matter because we don't kick in doors and shoot people dead all the time. Im not suggesting that we deserve the same respect as the guys on the ground, but it would be nice if we got a little more recognition from the public and a fewer overused jokes.

I'll buy the air support for a dollar, but an excellent job on the rest is a little bit of a joke. I think where the AF gets the bad reputation is that for the amount of funding you guys get, as a service you're not all that useful and way over-funded. I've seen Army and Marine units struggling to find the money to clean out asbestos insulated barracks while the Air Force buys new Wiis and plasma screen TVs for theirs, while at the same time building a freaking monument to no one in particular, just to burn through the budget. Additionally, the Air Force has close to, if not the same amount, of officers as the Army. Yet the Army is twice the size of the Air Force. I understand flying billets but the rest of it is just the old guard of fighter pilots not wanting to downsize the officer corps even though the jobs could be done more easily and better by NCOs.

In my opinion most of the Air Force is a money-guzzling relic of the Cold War that either needs to be trimmed down severely, or reintegrated into the Army to ensure better inter-branch cooperation and efficiency.

Funny, I spent all that time running around with 25 year old Vietnam era equipment while the Army and Navy were getting a bloated budget to waste on new toys that weren't needed or functioned very well.
Here is a hint, the grass always looks greener elswhere, but the reality is that when you get there it is just as faded as from where you came. Also, All branches have wasted money on monuments, unnecessary equipment and treats for certain units. Look closely and you will see where similar things are occuring in your branch.

As to inter-branch cooperation. The Airforce is at the lead currently with its recon drones and rapid air support. Instead of criticizing the Air Force, "Why don't you ask why your branch is doing more to step up to the plate to support their own units?".

Ive said it before and il say it again, the USAF saved my tail.

I dont know why there is so much rivalry to the point of almost seeming to fully dislike your fellow servicemen, but i dont have a bad word to say about them personally.

I owe some of them pilots a pint!

metallifan wrote:
Not everyone who joins goes into active service. Some people, like myself, may not have that option locally, and may not want to move away from town for at least 6 years. As far as "easy" jobs, there's always Embassy duty for more experienced guys, and postings in foreign bases - especially for Americans. They seem pretty big on that stuff.

Yeah I understand.

metallifan wrote:
Just the whole 'government is bad! Wars of freedom are just excuses' thing.

Well I certainly can't understand everything they are doing there. But I think its better that we don't even get started on this one.. Maybe I've just listened too much of system of a down or something.

metallifan wrote:

And yeah I've been in military service actually. I was a military police in airforce.

What you gonna do when they come for you? Bad boys bad boys.


changed the link to the one with english subtitles.

That is a pretty commercial video but yeah at least some nice action there.

metallifan wrote:
Most people just join as a means of paying their way through college. With the average first-year tuition fees in much of NA in the range of $18,000 and books generally in the $2,000-$4,000 range, most students would be paying off loans for the rest of their lives without military help. Then you've got family tradition, you might want training for the civilian sector through practical means rather than relying on booksmarts (IMO, practical learning is better than sitting and listening to some prof give lectures), You may even just want something snappy-looking on your Resumé. In most cases, if an employer sees military service on your resumé, you'll instantly be their favorite.

Yeah I know it must be a hard time paying those bills. Luckily I don't have that problem becouse here it is free to go to college or where ever you like to go. You just need to buy some books but the government pays the rest. So it really doesn't bother that much that we don't get very well paid in service time.

focusedfire wrote:Trying to get military secrets, eh? We're on to you.

What I can tell you from my service a couple of decades back is that you have various support units and goodwill tours. If you happen to get assigned to a unit that pulls a lot of TDYs(Temporary Duty Assignments) you can end up on one of Uncle Sams World Tours and traveling clown shows. This last isn't meant as a sign of disresptect but is or at least was an inside joke about the necessity of some the "good will" missions. I understand the importance and need of medical goodwill missions but had trouble understanding the need for traveling honour guards being sent around the world as a part of diplomacy.

Hopefully this will give you an idea as to the range of non-combat TDYs withou getting into too much detail.

Damn I got caught already?

Heh I see. Thanks.

focusedfire wrote: AF E-peen waggling

If you are done with your pissing match and ignorance of what other services specialize in (HINT: ground based services focus on ground based tech, naval based focuses on naval tech and air based focuses on aero tech) then we can get back to the issue at hand. Which is imparting insight of our respective branches to possible recruits, so as to provide a better military force overall.

IAmTheWalrus wrote:

In my opinion most of the Air Force is a money-guzzling relic of the Cold War that either needs to be trimmed down severely, or reintegrated into the Army to ensure better inter-branch cooperation and efficiency.

Oh god you're one of those guys

IAmTheWalrus wrote:In my opinion most of the Air Force is a money-guzzling relic of the Cold War that either needs to be trimmed down severely, or reintegrated into the Army to ensure better inter-branch cooperation and efficiency.

The Airforce is cheapest branch of the uniformed forces In spite of having the majority of R&D projects under it's belt I might add. The AF was never operated as part of the Army anyway. It had always acted like a separate organization. YOu can't reintegrate something that was never integrated in the first place .

Dude, we still fly aircraft that have been in our inventory since the damn Eisenhower administration (KC-135, B-52) Half our budget goes to just keeping those things in the air.

Corvus wrote:

Oh god you're one of those guys

Dude, we still fly aircraft that have been in our inventory since the damn Eisenhower administration (KC-135, B-52) Half our budget goes to just keeping those things in the air.

I am one of those guys. I have friends overseas fighting and dying in all services, and I'm propagating my opinion for what I think is the most effective use of military funds. You disagree with me because you're biased one way, and I'll freely admit I'm biased the other. I think the only way we're going to win this is by boots on the ground and good old fashioned blood and guts, and while the Army is hurting for people, though not as badly as before, the Air Force is so overstaffed that they're kicking people out.

And as to weapons, we're still using a machine gun from 1933 (M2 Browning) so two can play at that game. The reason the AF is still operating the B-52 (which is being phased out slowly) is because of it's reliability and because it's inexpensive. According to my AF aircrew buddy those 135 airframes get rebuilt every year from the bottom up to ensure they have the best avionics and equipment available, so you can hardly call those Eisenhower era tools.

LordofHats wrote:

The Airforce is cheapest branch of the uniformed forces In spite of having the majority of R&D projects under it's belt I might add. The AF was never operated as part of the Army anyway. It had always acted like a separate organization. You can't reintegrate something that was never integrated in the first place .

Three words: Army Air Corps.

Red9 wrote:

focusedfire wrote: AF E-peen waggling

If you are done with your pissing match and ignorance of what other services specialize in (HINT: ground based services focus on ground based tech, naval based focuses on naval tech and air based focuses on aero tech) then we can get back to the issue at hand. Which is imparting insight of our respective branches to possible recruits, so as to provide a better military force overall.

1)What waggling? Walrus is talking nonsensical smack about one of the branches and you are criticizing me for correcting him. That is priceless, I suggest you go back and re-read the thread.

2) As far as what the other services specialize in, I was in a TDY Combat Communications Group that over the course of 3 years of "peace-time" duty assignments had spent less than 6 months on base. 2 & 1/2 years on TDY supplying Combat Coms support for the Army, Navy and Air Force. Yes, it was a long time ago, but I am willing to bet that I have had more first hand joint service operations experience than some auxillary bilge pump from a ship tender. So please, take your uninformed insults elsewhere.

3)Note, I have not talked smack about any branch. My comments have been geared to pointing out that the Air Force is not all Ice Cream and Cookies and for the OP to have realistic expectations. Your comment about my being ignorant of the other services specializations based upon what I have posted makes me think that you:
A) Might not have fully read the thread.
B) Might have the reading comp. levels that will necessitate your having to cross train into the Army(Sorry Army guys, I was Air Force and the rivalry is still there )
C) Might be attempting to troll
or
D) Might have spent to much time working around the old lead based paint on some of the older ships.

Whichever it is don't let me get you into trouble with some futile reply when you are supposed to be swabbing the deck,

Later


@OP-If your family has any connections with local judges or state level politicians see if you can get a letter of reference towards one of the government paid ROTC based educational programs. Now, if you are in a hurry just to get the heck out of town/ just want to be someplace else, Army is offering good signing bonuses. If your looking for real world skills for when you get out? Then I suggest the Navy. What it really comes down to is what are you looking for? A four year in and then pop out for education? A Life long career? Technical based skills and education? Future career in criminal justice or politics? Might get a more focused answer after posting what your personal goals are.

PS- Seeing as you are supposed to meet up with the recruiters soon I will make one firm suggestion. Don't feel pressured to sign anything. Think your options over and beg off to sign later if you have the slightest question. If the recruiter hits you with a line about this job may not be open for long then reply that you can wait a couple of months for it to open back up.

Corvus wrote:Dude, we still fly aircraft that have been in our inventory since the damn Eisenhower administration (KC-135, B-52) Half our budget goes to just keeping those things in the air.

Finish the phrase: "If it works..."

In all reality, all branches have old weapons that work well and are kept around. The NAVY also apparantly has issues, one being incredibly officer heavy and the other as having a lot of NAVY guys who disrespect their XO's and don't follow orders.

The B-52 sounds a lot like the M1 Abram that is built so that it is easy for crews to add on new equipment and tools. The best thing about the abrams it that they never really die, they actually get recycled and rebuilt.

The thing with planes is that if they crash, that's almost always a complete loss. If you see those airshow crashes I would like to see anyone recover anything from those crashes. Another thing with the airforce and any branch with aircraft is the stress the aircraft face even if they don't get shot at, an extreme example is the SR-71 Blackbird that actually stretches both the pilot and the aircraft itself(IIRC the jet can stretch up to 7 inches during flight).

I do agree that budgeting could be done better such as removing the whole "if you don't spend your budget you get less next year" thing, I think that it still goes on and its like paying someone less because they tried to save their money.


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And yes, recruiters do have quotas to meet in terms of what kind of people they need. If you want to drive a truck and they need a ground pounder they may tell you that they don't need guys to drive trucks and that no positions are available for that. My friend's sister is a marine recruiter.

I dunno. I'm not trying to start an inter-service flame war or say that the AF has it harder than everyone else.

I'm just trying to give my Army wingman here our side of the story, and I'm also just trying to make sure that any prospective military personnel reading this thread know that while yes, the AF is cushier than the other branches, it is not all fun and games, we do serious work, and despite what the naysayers want you to think, we work hard to make sure our forces on the ground have the best logistics, intel, transportation and air support we can provide.

IAmTheWalrus wrote:Three words: Army Air Corps.

Are we talking about the British Military? Then it's the US Army Air Corps thank you

Check up on your history. The USAAC never operate as a part of the US Army. Sure it was officially part of the US Army, but it always acted and operated as a separate force. It was only part of the US Army on paper. Operationally it was organized and operated exactly the same as the USAF. (EDIT: It was like the relationship between the Marine Corps and the Navy)

The last time we operated an Air Force as a part of the Army was the US Army Air Service in the mid 20's, but when we created the USAAC it was restructured into a separate force that only lacked official independence but for all operational purposes was independent. At the end of WWI the world began realizing that the air had become a third front in warfare, and that mandated the creation of a dedicated armed branches to deal with it. It is neither effective nor efficient to bloat the two into a single entity which then faces conflicting goals.

mattyrm wrote:Yeah i wasnt gonna bother chipping in with military gak because i dont like to look like one of those sad bastards who gives it the "charlie big spuds" via an internet forum

I have no idea what this means, but I love it.

WARBOSS TZOO wrote:I'm currently in the process of getting the Australian Air Force to pay my way through law school so that I can go full time. Afterwards I'll end up serving in the Lawyer Corps.

Same here, I'm looking at a career in law either in the Military or after it. Might see you there in a couple of years.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Everyone I know who's joined the Navy has hated it. The only friend I had who joined the Army loved it to bits. He was also insane.

That varies you see, my whole families history has been dedicated to the ADF, in particular the navy, many peoples views are different.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

WARBOSS TZOO wrote:I'm currently in the process of getting the Australian Air Force to pay my way through law school so that I can go full time. Afterwards I'll end up serving in the Lawyer Corps.

Same here, I'm looking at a career in law either in the Military or after it. Might see you there in a couple of years.

Fancy that... I have no trade skills at all and I don't fancy wallowing in poverty after completing year 12 so I was thinking about trying out for the Air Force or Army's gap year program. Only problem is, it's a full year away from home (even if it's only one state away) and I don't know if I have the guts to deal with that, especially considering I don't know anyone at all on the mainland.

Things might change though. It'd look good on a resume and the salary isn't too bad.

If you are concerned about spending time away from home now then I would humbly suggest a career in the Forces is probably not the best of choices.