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While I wouldn't refuse to play a game without painted figs I would prefer to play with and against a fully painted army whenever I play. It's just far more fun that way for me.

That being said. I had my army stolen so until I paint all of the replacement figures I will be playing with an unpainted army at all times sadly.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:This comment may tick some people off, but it's just an observation: people in my metagame, who play with fully painted armies, tend to have a better understanding of the rules and the game itself than players who show up with unpainted or shoddily painted armies. This isn't to say that the paint makes the difference, but that the people who put in the time to paint the minis to a decent standard also put in the time to learn the game, learn the rules, and learn the tactics that allow them to play something other than a complete pushover game.

Might just be a longevity issue. Those of us with fully painted armies (yes, in spite of my defense of unpainted, I do indeed have several fully painted armies play in too many tournies not to) have been in the game a lot longer, maybe? And therefor have a better understanding of the rules than some newb that has been involved in the hobby for three months and doesn't yet have a painted army? Or we have stayed with a particular army for a long time (I've been playing IG since 2nd ed) and are thoroughly familiar with it, as opposed to someone that jumps to a new army with every codex release, never staying with one long enough to learn it properly.

So while there might be a slight corollary between fully painted and knowing the rules, I'd be more inclined to say that it's a mix of how long you've been playing that leads to both fully painted and knowing the rules.

Painting requires time, patience, and discipline. A lot of gamers don't have one or all of these traits. However, they can be developed. It's true that it is no one's responsibility to make others paint, we can always helpfully suggest and still have a good game.

Besides, painted models fight better!

And on that note, I'll play against anyone with painted/non-painted army just so I can get better. Yes, my models are painted. Yes, it took me upwards of 2 years to get them done. Yes, they win awesomely and lose awesomely. My only restriction for gaming isn't paint but poor hygiene. If I can smell my opponent before I see him... fugettaboutit!

Maxstreel wrote:. My only restriction for gaming isn't paint but poor hygiene. If I can smell my opponent before I see him... fugettaboutit!

Can we get an AMEN!, brothers and sisters!!

Maxstreel wrote:
Besides, painted models fight better!

Unless, they are part of a largely unpainted unit.. then the whole unit is basically a points black hole.

Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Maxstreel wrote:
Besides, painted models fight better!

Unless, they are part of a largely unpainted unit.. then the whole unit is basically a points black hole.

Until only the painted models are left. And then its their time to shine!

don_mondo wrote:

Maxstreel wrote:. My only restriction for gaming isn't paint but poor hygiene. If I can smell my opponent before I see him... fugettaboutit!

Can we get an AMEN!, brothers and sisters!!

Amen

BladeWalker wrote:I'm at the point now where I can only tolerate unpainted when I'm forced to (in a tournament that doesn't require painting). In friendly games I only play guys that are like minded (it's about the hobby as much as the game). I voted for both mine and theirs must be painted. I never used to be as harsh about painting but I have seen some things that just ruin the game over the past few years, not to say that you can't do what you want with your hobby... I just don't have to play you.

Yeah.....those people new to the hobby are totally unworthy of playing the game!!!

I've posted on this before. I might be repeating others views, as I haven't read all pages in this thread, but I do not play unpainted, or against unpainted. I also do not place books, note books, rule books, or tokens unrelated to game play on the playing surface... I enjoy miniture gaming but only in it's fullest form. To me that is fully painted armies, on a fully painted surface, with fully painted terrain. I don't think soldiers in the future will be triping over giant rule books, and soda bottles as they fight xenos, so seeing clutter on the gaming surface takes just as much away from my experience.
I've also found that those who share my opinion are far far more entertaining to not only be around but game with. They are far more patient to get an army on the table, because they paint it, so they aren't jonesing to rush some waggh list to the table where they seek to bend every rule in the book at the same time. Granted we take much pride in the army lists we put together, but the added maturity of "If I'm going to do something I'm gonna do it all the way" really comes out during game time. Before I took this stance, it seemed that everytime I heard the most absurd understanding of the rules was from someone who took no interest in painting.
This is an expensive hobby, and unless I'm getting all I can out of it, I do not wish to play those individuals who do not share that view. Please save me the song and dance of how you get more from one aspect of the hobby over the other etc etc... I love the game, and the strategy, and all aspects away from the paint brush just as much as anyone else, but either go big or go home. Do it all to the best of your ability or find something that you can.

On a side note. I simply can't see unpainted minis, and distinguish what's what if it's sold black, white, or grey. So that's usually my canned response.

Thaylen wrote: I really don't care what the state of my opponents models are so long as I can figure out what is what mid game.

I'll agree with that. Opponent's army being painted is nice but I'll take unpainted over proxies any day.

Personally I don't field unpainted models or proxies.

I am taking a new aproach to my next army.

I am only buying one box of models at a time and wont buy another until they are painted. I enjoy painting but part of my problem i think has been that i will get an entire army, then the task of painting those 200+ models just seems so incredibly daunting that i have trouble getting motivated.

If i get one box at a time, paint them, and know when im done i get a new box to paint (and can mix it up a bit) i think it will help me out a little more.

Also the wife is fine with it, 30-60 dollars a week is a lot easier to convince her to let me get then 350 at once.

I voted that mine can be primed, theirs can be any state. But the reality is that I will only play with mine primed when I'm testing a concept or when I buy a larger army and haven't had time to paint it all.

And while I'll play against someone with an unpainted army, if they don't make any effort to paint it over time, I'll make snide comments about the Great Grey Horde.

ShivanAngel wrote:I am taking a new aproach to my next army.

I am only buying one box of models at a time and wont buy another until they are painted. I enjoy painting but part of my problem i think has been that i will get an entire army, then the task of painting those 200+ models just seems so incredibly daunting that i have trouble getting motivated.

If i get one box at a time, paint them, and know when im done i get a new box to paint (and can mix it up a bit) i think it will help me out a little more.

Also the wife is fine with it, 30-60 dollars a week is a lot easier to convince her to let me get then 350 at once.

This used to be how the hobby was managed. If you played marines, like I have, you'd get a a tac squad, paint that, play it in your army for a few weeks, then get a dred, paint that wash, rinse, repeat... and eventually you had a whole army, and the cost was more spread out. Additionally no one showed up with an unpainted army- that's just how it was. Things changed in the late 90's 2000 ish and kids started to show up en masse with 2000 pts of unpainted wanting to proxy an unpainted termi for a dred...

I have personally played unprimed and against unprimed. Even against unfinished models (spearhead land raider waiting to get the LC assembly put together).

My opinion is that unless its unassembled, its playable (WYSIWYG rules). However, as a matter of taste, painted models would be preferable, but sometimes not practical.

I never refuse a game, and I don't bother if my opponent's models are unpainted, but I would never field an unpainted model.

I field unpainted units all the time when I want to try out different things so I never complain about my opponent doing the same.

I don't mind unpainted armies, cause mine are barely painted anyway.
Proxying, on the other hand...

MisterMoon wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:I am taking a new aproach to my next army.

I am only buying one box of models at a time and wont buy another until they are painted. I enjoy painting but part of my problem i think has been that i will get an entire army, then the task of painting those 200+ models just seems so incredibly daunting that i have trouble getting motivated.

If i get one box at a time, paint them, and know when im done i get a new box to paint (and can mix it up a bit) i think it will help me out a little more.

Also the wife is fine with it, 30-60 dollars a week is a lot easier to convince her to let me get then 350 at once.

This used to be how the hobby was managed. If you played marines, like I have, you'd get a a tac squad, paint that, play it in your army for a few weeks, then get a dred, paint that wash, rinse, repeat... and eventually you had a whole army, and the cost was more spread out. Additionally no one showed up with an unpainted army- that's just how it was. Things changed in the late 90's 2000 ish and kids started to show up en masse with 2000 pts of unpainted wanting to proxy an unpainted termi for a dred...

I think theres a big difference between proxies and unpainted/primed and even WYSIWYG....

If you say that guy on a horse is general on a dragon.... uhhhh no.

Testing an army is one thing in friendly games, and I and some of my friends dont mind using a proxy for testing before we drop 50 bucks on a model..

But trying to get a pick up game and saying these are that and this is actually this... Yeah dont feel like taking the time to remember all that...

Or i have seen people show up with just legs and torsos glued to bases....

Hahhh I dont care just bring your army painted or not. I was at a tourney once were 1/2 my army was primer and my two predators were not GW models and a guy refused to face me in the second game, tourney official said he looses by default for not fielding his army. I won that tourney and was thanking God I did not have to face his Eldar army hvy with Falcon tanks.

Personally all my models HAVE to be painted before I can use them, its just what I do. As for my opponent's army I could'nt care less, I only ask I can tell what is what on the board.

Can we have the option of "would like to refuse if unpainted, but doesn't"

Considering that only my tanks are fully painted, I really can't say anything about other people's armies. By FLGS decree, all models must be at least primed (if a model isn't primed one week after its first appearance, the opponent can legally ask them to take it off the board) before being used. Granted, it's not really enforced, since it's just an opponent's decision and none of the guys at the store are jerks, but it actually did motivate people to start painting.

That said, I can understand why people don't have fully painted armies - they're new, they have a tight work schedule (I know I do, or at least am too exhausted to paint any days other than days off) or go to school and work - college is a bitch. What I can't understand is why people would pass up a game just because their opponents don't have fully painted armies - and that would be an automatic epic defeat in my FLGS league.

*sigh*
Once again:
People don't pass up a game just because their opponents don't have fully painted armies. "I only play fully painted" is just a convenient scapegoat to avoid playing TFG or Billy Bandwagoner.

However, of course, if you go to a tournament--you're required to have things fully painted or you get docked points.

I really don't care, as my army is only primed (I've painted 4 models so far...)

Ok, they have to be at least primed. I mean, it's like 30 minutes, max, of spraypainting.

Should have an option for "I'll do it if I really have to".

But in general cannot stand unpainted models on a tabletop.

Locclo wrote:Considering that only my tanks are fully painted, I really can't say anything about other people's armies. By FLGS decree, all models must be at least primed (if a model isn't primed one week after its first appearance, the opponent can legally ask them to take it off the board) before being used. Granted, it's not really enforced, since it's just an opponent's decision and none of the guys at the store are jerks, but it actually did motivate people to start painting.

I have seen that enforced mainly to curb theft. It is easy to break open a blister, glue it on the spot and play with it and not pay and claim you brought it in with you. If the owner requires everything be primed, then it makes those unprimed minis stick out and are easy to watch like a hawk. So there is method to the madness of 'must be primed'.

That said, I can understand why people don't have fully painted armies - they're new, they have a tight work schedule (I know I do, or at least am too exhausted to paint any days other than days off) or go to school and work - college is a bitch. What I can't understand is why people would pass up a game just because their opponents don't have fully painted armies - and that would be an automatic epic defeat in my FLGS league.

Most people, probably 99% of them including myself abide by the rules of the house/event. If it is an event like a Leauge that allows unpainted models to participate, then I know this before joining and am not going to come stomping into it going "Fe Fi Fo Fum! I smell an unpainted 2500 point army!" That is why there are House rules, standards and requirements. I would probably choose to participate in an event or at a club that had a similar mindset as I did and required painting if I was really upset about it. You don't know who doesn;t want to play you because they chose not to join your leauge in the first place.

Luckily since most houses/events declare what is acceptable before you even show up at the establishment, it is really easy for those people who want to paint/play painted to find events that will require it and those who don't care to find events that don't require it. Everyone is happy and gets what they want.

The store that I play at and the people that I have played in the past have the same belief. Which is that if you continually play with the same people or at the store, then you should show some progress with your painting. Whether it be a grey unit being primed the next time or a unit fully painted. I don't mind people coming to a table with unpainted armies. What I get upset over are the guys whose armies are always coming in and it is the same composition as before but no paint has been placed. I actually saw someone come to a gaming group I was with in Maine who put a dot of paint on each of his models to get around the house rule.

Painted or unpainted? Doesn't matter to me as long as you are enjoying the hobby as well as the game. If you don't like painting, then buy a painted army and call it done.

With friends i dont care.. i know it sucks to have a new army your working on but want to play it before its done.


As for a tourney, Fully painted is only way ill go with my army.

tuathal1 wrote:
Painted or unpainted? Doesn't matter to me as long as you are enjoying the hobby as well as the game. If you don't like painting, then buy a painted army and call it done.

Ok some people really really hate painting, but love the game.

A painted army can cost 2-10x the cost of just the models, I honestly dont think its fair to tell them to spend tons of money just so you enjoy looking at their models.

[quote=ShivanAngel
Ok some people really really hate painting, but love the game.

A painted army can cost 2-10x the cost of just the models, I honestly dont think its fair to tell them to spend tons of money just so you enjoy looking at their models.