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It's more than just that.

GW technically publishes all Black Library books, since Black Library, the publisher, is a subsidiary of GW.

Black Library is just as canon as that codex you love so much, Melissia. As much as it may hurt to recognize it, it's the truth.

Black Library isn't any more canon than fanon to me. Or do you forget that Black Library contradicts itself and the codices rather frequently?

The codex is the primary and most important source of fluff for the army. Black Library comes afterwards. If Bliack Library is the most important source, why Space Marines use multi-lasers?

SamplesoWoopass wrote:You say it's possible for them to fight the different armies on the table top

So are you telling me that GW was unfluffy when they included the Sisters in the War for Armageddon? Or that GW's fluff for Saint Praxedes fighting the Tyranids is unfluffy?

SaintHazard wrote:It's more than just that.

GW technically publishes all Black Library books, since Black Library, the publisher, is a subsidiary of GW.

Black Library is just as canon as that codex you love so much, Melissia. As much as it may hurt to recognize it, it's the truth.

Oh god don't say such truthful things! Logic has no place in this thread considering someone has a huge fluff-on for their army and the possibility their land of sugar and honey could be ruined by such ideals!

Melissia wrote:Black Library isn't any more canon than fanon to me. Or do you forget that Black Library contradicts itself and the codices rather frequently?

So it's not canon because you say so? Alright then.

The 40k universe revolves around the Tau, and they can never be beaten in combat. Because I say so.

And as for contradictions, codices contradict each other and themselves all the time.

Lemme see if I can dig up some canon contradictions from codices off of Lexicanum, it does a great job of pointing them out.

Here are two already:

"By 742.M41 Imperial Commanders eventually agreed to requests from the Water Caste for peace talks.

The negotiations were successful and the Imperial fleet withdrew from Tau space, primarily due to the impending approach of Hive Fleet Behemoth. Or, depending on the source, the crusade was stopped in 988.M41 due to the emergent threat of Hive Fleet Kraken."

from the article on the Damocles Crusade.

Sources are all "canon" to you.

And the second:

"Founding: The Codex: Space Marines (5th Edition) indicates the Sable Swords were founded in M41, but the Warhammer 40,000 5th Edition Rulebook states they participated in the hunt for Vanorich in M32."

from the article on the Sable Swords.

These are all sources you consider to be canon.

Canon conflict does not make canon equal fanon.

Dear DakkaDakka,

Well, I am realizing there is no contradiction if the fiction portraying the fallen Sisters is happening in the present day 40K universe. The codex would then simply have been correct up to the point it was written, up to that time, only one Sister of Battle had ever fallen.

Expecting the universe to remain static is silly I know. I don't like some of what's written, but as you say it is canon. I was going to buy the Ephrael Stern comic, but last time I looked it was out of print and really pricey on Ebay and Amazon... I hope they reprint it.

How do you all do it? I not only can't afford to buy the novels along with the miniatures and new editions of the game, I have no interest in any armies but the Sisters of Battle. But so much about the beloved God Emperor is written in the Horus Heresy books and other fiction...sigh. Even if I wanted to accept the whole series as canon, I can't manage to read them all.

My solution can only be to say that -my- Sisters remain faithful and chaste I suppose.

Though it's been heated, I have enjoyed this thread very much! My best to all of you, whether I agreed with you or not

--- Frankie

face palm* I forgot women get plus ten to their will saves against logic based attacks.

On a more serious note, I like how you ignored the entire point I was making in that, since you say that it's okay for them to fight on the table top (although you'll never be able to make sense of why they'd fight certain SM armies so I suppose you refuse to play against people who are using them) due to it being possible based on some back story that you are admitting that it's okay to have chaos sisters because in part of the back story there is or are sister/s that have fallen to chaos....

I guess that went over your head though

Melissia, do you consider the Dawn of War games and their subsequent novels to be canon? Games Workshop does. Or do they not count, because "you say so?"

Since they're canon, here:

"The only time the "secret masters" of the chapter are talked about are during Chris Roberson's Dawn of War II book. This conflicts with canon established in the Dawn of War II game where the Force Commander was promoted by the Chapter Master. This is most likely who leads the chapter, though it is also possible that the Secret Masters provide a council of sorts for the Chapter Master."

From the article on the Blood Ravens, under "Organisation."

I'm going to keep digging these up. How many is it going to take?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm going to make a slightly different point with this one.

"The novel Fulgrim indicates this was before the Emperor's entombment in the Golden Throne, but White Dwarf 255 (UK edition) indicates that it took place in 893.M31, long after the Second Founding (021.M31). However, White Dwarf 255 is from 2001 and, as such, must be assumed to have been replaced by Fulgrim, which is from 2007."

from [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Laer]the article on Laer.[/url]

Now I know you don't consider novels to be canon, but that's not my point.

The point is that this is listed as a "canon conflict."

This illustrates that while you don't consider Black Library novels to be canon, Games Workshop does.

don't bother saint. She's more stubborn than a commissar power blob.

More stubborn than Imperial Fists being yelled at by Lysander.

No, I'm honestly interested to hear her response to my points here.

The truth is, I respect Melissia's opinion, and she and I do agree frequently, but this time I want an admission of defeat. And I will cite as many sources as I have to to get it.

I will keep digging up codex contradictions as long as it takes.

Fewer personal attacks, please, boys!

May I continue to post canon conflicts in an attempt to pound Melissia's argument into the ground with extreme prejudice, or you want me to cut that out too?

I would use a lot of sister repenata and backpack mounted slaneesh icons.

@OP- Now that I think about it, A Tzeench themed set of Sisters would also be really cool. I say this his is in reference to my previous comment about those who fall from grace ending up becoming the anti-thesis of what they once were.

Really, when you think about it, all of the Major Chaos gods would have their own special desire and self motivations to corrupt the sisters.

Korne for their skills in battle
Nurgle so he can corrupt their purported physical perfection
Slaneesh so that it can corrupt the spiritual minimalists with excess
And
Tzeench because they interfere in his plans as much as the other chaos gods and that corrupting them to sorcery would be the ultimate perversion of their purpose. They would become the Seraphim of Tzeench, you could use the Living Saint model as a feathery winged thing of beauty that is his herald.

Out of these choices, my personal preferences are your Sisters of Slaneesh idea and the Seraphim of Tzeench idea. There is Something about making them look even more angelic due to being agents of Tzeench that just seems right.

focusedfire wrote:they interfere in his plans

I disagree with this portion of what you just said.

Because it assumes that you have even the slightest inkling of Tzeentch's grand plan.

Remember, it's impossible to win against Tzeentch or his minions. If you lose, it was all part of the plan. If you win, it was all part of the plan.

The schemes of the god of schemes are grander and more complex than any mortal or even another Chaos God could ever comprehend.

SaintHazard wrote:So it's not canon because you say so?

I do not believe false dilemmas are the correct logical tool.

Regardless, I don't care if they create this army. People make unfluffy armies all the time, no big deal. Go get some minis off of ebay, cheapest place to get them.

SaintHazard wrote:

focusedfire wrote:they interfere in his plans

I disagree with this portion of what you just said.

Because it assumes that you have even the slightest inkling of Tzeentch's grand plan.

Remember, it's impossible to win against Tzeentch or his minions. If you lose, it was all part of the plan. If you win, it was all part of the plan.

The schemes of the god of schemes are grander and more complex than any mortal or even another Chaos God could ever comprehend.

I never said anything about winning or losing, only interfering.

Seriously, I agree with your point. I was working from the point that the Sisters ultimate mission puts them at odds with Tzeench.


HMMmm, Then there is the possibility that the sisters might often account for that x factor in any plan. The element of chance because their abilities are in many ways more chance based than many other armies.

Melissia wrote:*snicker* Or just mak them into FSMs and piss off more people.

Ugh.

Let's not dredge that up, OK?

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Melissia wrote:*snicker* Or just mak them into FSMs and piss off more people.

I really don't understand why people get a wild hair up their arse whenever FSM's are even mentioned. Seems like a cool idea...I'd probably add a junk load of purity seals and tabards and all that jazz, just to show them off as being clearly SoBS.

Are you seriously saying you really don't know why?

Or are you attempting to be provocative?

Either way - don't.

Petite Francois wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:^ Lol.

I still wish GW sold a bitz pack simply called "female Heads". Give us 10 heads for 8 bucks and I'll buy.

Then I can make Sobs out of space marines :3

Hi Samus_aran115,

These aren't GW, but would they be useful to you?

http://www.thewarstore.com/product53090.html

They have Amazon heads in Greek helmets too, might be an interesting look for alternate Sisters of Battle?

--- Frankie

Not bad, but I like girls with long hair, and those aren't 'sex' enough for me


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And no alpharius, I don't know why. It seems like a plague of strangeness to me. Not trying to be provocative at all (Why'd I use that one.lol)

Nurgle sisters preggers with disease and rot.

Qualude wrote:Nurgle sisters preggers with disease and rot.

Thank you for contributing so much to this thread.

Nurgle sisters make little sense, if not the least of the possible chaos god alignments,IMO.

Women and nurgle just don't seem to bode well together. The torture of that eldar goddess comes to mind..

Samus_aran115 wrote:Nurgle sisters make little sense, if not the least of the possible chaos god alignments,IMO.

I agree. Nurgle's modus operandi for gaining followers is to hurt them then wait until they prostrate themselves before him as a last resort, the only god who will directly respond to their prayers for salvation. This cannot work to convert someone whose prayers will be answered, and it cannot work on someone who would sooner be martyred than relinquish her faith in the face of such adversity.

AlexHolker wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Nurgle sisters make little sense, if not the least of the possible chaos god alignments,IMO.

I agree. Nurgle's modus operandi for gaining followers is to hurt them then wait until they prostrate themselves before him as a last resort, the only god who will directly respond to their prayers for salvation. This cannot work to convert someone whose prayers will be answered, and it cannot work on someone who would sooner be martyred than relinquish her faith in the face of such adversity.

Plus, all the women I know would rather die than have a perma-yeast infection

SaintHazard wrote:Black Library is just as canon as that codex you love so much, Melissia. As much as it may hurt to recognize it, it's the truth.

There is some standard quote on that, that all BL books are canon only in the sense that there is someone in the 40k universe telling this story, which must not necessarily be true.
And take any Goto novel and you know that not everything written by BL makes sense or can be right in the 40k universe. Bad editing led to this situation. But even Abnett takes his freedoms.

PC games are even less trustworthy, as by game mechanics they must provide multiple endings for their campaigns that can't all be true.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Nurgle sisters make little sense, if not the least of the possible chaos god alignments,IMO.

Women and nurgle just don't seem to bode well together. The torture of that eldar goddess comes to mind..

Torture? No, he's giving her presents, lots of them, presents that he worked very, very hard on.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Nurgle sisters make little sense, if not the least of the possible chaos god alignments,IMO.

Women and nurgle just don't seem to bode well together. The torture of that eldar goddess comes to mind..

I hardly think SoB would care about some xeno heathen goddess's plight. And it's not like women don't feel despair, what happens if a SoB's faith fails? For instance, she could watch her whole squad get slaughtered by Chaos cultists and go into a depression about why the Emperor abandoned them. That's plenty enough for many to start on the road to Nurgle's embrace.

The Dizzler wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Nurgle sisters make little sense, if not the least of the possible chaos god alignments,IMO.

Women and nurgle just don't seem to bode well together. The torture of that eldar goddess comes to mind..

I hardly think SoB would care about some xeno heathen goddess's plight. And it's not like women don't feel despair, what happens if a SoB's faith fails? For instance, she could watch her whole squad get slaughtered by Chaos cultists and go into a depression about why the Emperor abandoned them. That's plenty enough for many to start on the road to Nurgle's embrace.

Every time you roll an 11 on a morale check I imagine that's rather what it would look like.

It happens.

Vene wrote:Torture? No, he's giving her presents, lots of them, presents that he worked very, very hard on.

You joke, but there's a reason I called Nurgle an abusive husband earlier. His actions are completely without merit, no matter what his in-universe apologists say.

The Dizzler wrote:what happens if a SoB's faith fails?

What happens if you find a square circle? Not only does the concept of a SoB's faith failing in the face of adversity go against the defining feature of the Sisters of Battle and their Joan of Arc origins, it doesn't even make sense. Like I said, her faith is backed up with honest to god miracles. A Sister of Battle who comes to the conclusion that the Emperor does not care about her plight is basically a Flat Earth Atheist.

Even if by some amazing fluke it did happen, it would happen to a single Battle Sister, not whole squads at a time.

@Alex-Just wanted to say that your above post kinda comes across as if you take the fluff seriously and possibly a bit too literally. Not trying to start anything, just stating how it came across to me.

I'd, also, like to point out that the back story is a work of fiction in which nothing is permanent or truly cannon. This is because GW changes this back story whenever it suits their sales need.


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