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the easy answer here is that you don't have to choose really. If you play a DIY chapter, you can field them using any of the three rules sets in question.

I have a friend who has a huge Black Templar army - is just so happens to include "thundercav" and "Dorn Pattern Predators" which happen to be armed with flamestorm cannons etc etc.

Remember, at the end of the day, all these guys are marines - whether he's a devastator that suffers from Red Thrist or a Long Fang or a Devastator that has Combat Tactics it doesn't really matter.

I would say pick Codex Marines first, build up a decent force of stuff that can be used in all the codeci, then start branching off into unique units.

Actually a Devastator Marine with the Red Thirst has to be treated very differently from a Devastator Marine with Combat Tactics: They cost less because they're worth less.

Seaward wrote:

legomojo wrote:
Yes, it speaks highly of my potential choices as well. The joy it brings is only equaled by it's frustration. Haha.

I hate you, by the way. You have me, ONCE AGAIN, questioning my choice to go BA over SW.

I'm sorry buddy! Maybe you can do like me, and probably just play both... haha. Get some very wolves and paint em you color scheme.

legomojo wrote:

Seaward wrote:

legomojo wrote:
Yes, it speaks highly of my potential choices as well. The joy it brings is only equaled by it's frustration. Haha.

I hate you, by the way. You have me, ONCE AGAIN, questioning my choice to go BA over SW.

I'm sorry buddy! Maybe you can do like me, and probably just play both... haha. Get some very wolves and paint em you color scheme.

You can always go the Goatboy route...

OverwatchCNC wrote:

legomojo wrote:

Seaward wrote:

legomojo wrote:
Yes, it speaks highly of my potential choices as well. The joy it brings is only equaled by it's frustration. Haha.

I hate you, by the way. You have me, ONCE AGAIN, questioning my choice to go BA over SW.

I'm sorry buddy! Maybe you can do like me, and probably just play both... haha. Get some very wolves and paint em you color scheme.

You can always go the Goatboy route...

What that?

Nurglitch wrote:Actually a Devastator Marine with the Red Thirst has to be treated very differently from a Devastator Marine with Combat Tactics: They cost less because they're worth less.

I know man, but I'm saying that physically - it's still a marine model with a missile launcher. Buy all three codeci, pick up some standard models present in all three lists (bolter marines, special marines, devastator marines, razorbacks/rhinos, land speeders etc.) and then once the OP has a good core, pick up some of the more specialized stuff (TWC, Baals, Sang Guard, etc...)

Regular marines all the way.. I've played Codex Marines for 2 years now and they have always served me best, i've played against 3 Blood Angels players and have always came out ontop because of the amount of firepower i give out. thats right 3 Sternguard squads filled with all combi weapons just obliterate BA assault squads even with feel no pain.. As for wolves their just too overpriced.. I mean really i'll take 4 Lascannons with a signum over 5 Missile launchers anyday.. My view is Codex Marine, Space Wolf, then if you just really want to.. Blood Angels

I have to admit, that's the first time I've seen someone label Space Wolves as overpriced.

Sgt_Scruffy:

It doesn't work terribly well. Codex: Space Marine and Codex: Chaos Space Marine are more compatible in terms of using a different army list for the same models, than Codex: Space Wolves, and Codex: Blood Angels.

I used to have an army that synch'd up nearly perfectly between lists, the old White Dwarf Blood Angels, and Codex: Chaos Space Marines, and that was when I made compromises like using Possessed for Death Company, Furioso for Chaos Dreadought with Extra Close Combat Weapon (The Melta Gun as a Twin-Linked Bolter), and so on.

Eventually this army underwait mitosis into Loyalist Beakies and Renegade Bunny Ears, and frankly I'm enjoying having them tailored to the resources and advantages of their respective Codexes.

I cant believe codex is winning the poll. you codex guys are just plain wrong. space wolves and blood angels are both a lot stronger. codex has a few awesome things. the rest is just blah. compare that to books like space wolves are blood angels where there's an awesome thing on every page and.... I dont know. I dont get it.

I love codex space marines and do very well with them but I will be the first to admit that codex SM is filled with a lot of crap units and is more limited than codex: SW. I do feel when all the codex's come out though blood angles will be worse off than vanilla SM. They are pretty scary now but even with FNP and decent of angles i think when more serious CC armies get updated blood angles power level will slide while codex marines will still be able to rely on some pretty nasty mech builds while BA has to pay a lot more than I think is reasonable for "fast" mech. Unfortunately my beloved biker marines will probably suffer along with jump pack BA when other CC armies get their 5th ed codex's.

true. good points.




unrelated
I dont understand all the hate for counts as armies. I mean its natural when gw releases 3 power armor codices in a year right? and when all the best codices were written within the last 18 months. If I loyally stick to codex: chaos marines and get my face beaten in by newer and snazzier space marine books, can anyone really blame me for switching out my rule set? I dont play to lose after all, and its disruptive to play balance when gw writes crap codices like chaos or dark angels early on and then decides to write awesome codices like blood angels and space wolves later. I'll stop using counts as rules when gw stops putting me in a situation where I have to do it to stay competitive.

ok rant over.

I think there's a lot more going for Vanilla chapters than just going with Wolves or BA. I think it has more with what people play with than exactly what seems better on paper.

Riddick40k wrote:Regular marines all the way.. I've played Codex Marines for 2 years now and they have always served me best, i've played against 3 Blood Angels players and have always came out ontop because of the amount of firepower i give out. thats right 3 Sternguard squads filled with all combi weapons just obliterate BA assault squads even with feel no pain.. As for wolves their just too overpriced.. I mean really i'll take 4 Lascannons with a signum over 5 Missile launchers anyday.. My view is Codex Marine, Space Wolf, then if you just really want to.. Blood Angels

What in the world is overpriced about wolves? Almost everything in the codex seems either fairly or aggressively costed to me. The only exception I can think of is Wolf Guard with shiny toys, but that's a specific load out of a specific unit. Even the "Claw" units which I love to hate on suffer more from having an awkward place in the army than not being worth the points.

Taking your example. 5 Lascannons in a Long Fangs squad is 15 points less than 4 in Dev Squad, plus you can split fire which is a better bonus than 1 shot at BS5.

Riddick40k wrote:Regular marines all the way.. I've played Codex Marines for 2 years now and they have always served me best, i've played against 3 Blood Angels players and have always came out ontop because of the amount of firepower i give out. thats right 3 Sternguard squads filled with all combi weapons just obliterate BA assault squads even with feel no pain.. As for wolves their just too overpriced.. I mean really i'll take 4 Lascannons with a signum over 5 Missile launchers anyday.. My view is Codex Marine, Space Wolf, then if you just really want to.. Blood Angels

Can you pass me that stuff you are smoking? seems funky =)

codex tacticals arent furious, dont get feel no pain, have crappy weapon options, and cost the same as blood angel assault marines. if you take a 350 point stern guard squad, melt a 250 point blood angels squad, and then get wiped by the squad right behind it, how is it that you're coming out on top? sorry, blood angels are stronger.

Wow, looks like BA, who were winning in the beginning, are loosing out to SW and Codex.

yeah. bizarre.

Well, I'd figure it's because regular Codex Marines always have their strengths over the others. Right now it, yes, Blood Angels are probably stronger. Will the power creep be the same in a year or two, when 6th edition comes around?
Wasn't Carnifex spam one of the most effective builds of the previous tyranid codex? Look where it is now... in the gaming graveyard.

Besides, the latest Blood Angel codex is simply slowed. Even more than the Thunderwolves and the Wolf Claws... but at least they didn't go the Vampire route all the way, and added some wings and angelic themes instead.

yes. they seem to be suffering from an identity crisis. artificer-vampire-angel-genetic supermen. come on guys. pick one.

Destrado wrote:Well, I'd figure it's because regular Codex Marines always have their strengths over the others. Right now it, yes, Blood Angels are probably stronger. Will the power creep be the same in a year or two, when 6th edition comes around?
Wasn't Carnifex spam one of the most effective builds of the previous tyranid codex? Look where it is now... in the gaming graveyard.

Besides, the latest Blood Angel codex is simply slowed. Even more than the Thunderwolves and the Wolf Claws... but at least they didn't go the Vampire route all the way, and added some wings and angelic themes instead.

My one concern with BA is that I suspect they're likely to not maintain their relative power even before 6th edition hits - except for Razorspam lists, which are...not particularly Blood Angelic. Or fun.

I think they'll hold their power for a while. some things... like scoring assault troopers with jump packs or descent of angels... will always be good.

It all depends on what sort of army youre looking to build and what tactic youre building it around. If you wanna lay down devastating firepower, Id take SW. SW assault units are great, but the BA still take the cake when it comes to killing in CC. SM is pretty much Ultramarines with the ability to make Salamanders, Crimson Fists, etc. But they are essentially one trick armies allowing you to exchange Combat Tactics for Twin Linked Flamers, Meltas or Fleet for your whole army. I play BA and SW and id go with BA. I actually regret buying SW because that money could have gone to fuel my BA warmachine.

SanguinaryGuard wrote:It all depends on what sort of army youre looking to build and what tactic youre building it around. If you wanna lay down devastating firepower, Id take SW. SW assault units are great, but the BA still take the cake when it comes to killing in CC. SM is pretty much Ultramarines with the ability to make Salamanders, Crimson Fists, etc. But they are essentially one trick armies allowing you to exchange Combat Tactics for Twin Linked Flamers, Meltas or Fleet for your whole army. I play BA and SW and id go with BA. I actually regret buying SW because that money could have gone to fuel my BA warmachine.

What would you specifically regret about SW?

I find thunderwolfs cavalry sweet.

Pick Codex marines, because Blood Angels versus Space Wolves is 40k's version of Team Edward versus Team Jacob. It's vampires versus werewolves all over again, and you don't want to be a part of all that claptrap.



But seriously, I play codex marines for flavor, customization and well, I don't like vampires or werewolves. In short: I choose them knowing full well that they're underpowered than BA or SW. At least not by a lot, so you can still pull some wins. Count on the Alapin move.

starsdawn wrote:Pick Codex marines, because Blood Angels versus Space Wolves is 40k's version of Team Edward versus Team Jacob. It's vampires versus werewolves all over again, and you don't want to be a part of all that claptrap.



But seriously, I play codex marines for flavor, customization and well, I don't like vampires or werewolves. In short: I choose them knowing full well that they're underpowered than BA or SW. At least not by a lot, so you can still pull some wins. Count on the Alapin move.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree 100000000000000000000000000%!!!!

I hate BA and I hate wolves play the good old normal space marines

every time you hear people talk about the other two the first thing they point to is like 1-3 models they are real good as if they don't use the army all together they just HAVE to point out that special unit thats good in CC and why its the most powerful thing they worship all day.

I wouldnt get too hung up on the fluff if I were you all. Its not the fluff - its the rules content - that matters. If you want to handicap your game so no one will laugh at you.... hey.... go for it.

starsdawn wrote:
In short: I choose them knowing full well that they're underpowered than BA or SW. At least not by a lot, so you can still pull some wins. Count on the Alapin move.

Pull some wins!?! Underpowered!?! Speak for your self buddy because no one who plays me thinks codex marines are underpowered. At best BA and SW took the solid SM core and built on it and in some cases tweaked the points values of certain units while adding/subtracting abilities. When you strip all that extra stuff away your still left with a really solid core ready to lay some smack down.

GamzaTheChaos wrote:

starsdawn wrote:Pick Codex marines, because Blood Angels versus Space Wolves is 40k's version of Team Edward versus Team Jacob. It's vampires versus werewolves all over again, and you don't want to be a part of all that claptrap.

But seriously, I play codex marines for flavor, customization and well, I don't like vampires or werewolves. In short: I choose them knowing full well that they're underpowered than BA or SW. At least not by a lot, so you can still pull some wins. Count on the Alapin move.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree 100000000000000000000000000%!!!!

I hate BA and I hate wolves play the good old normal space marines

every time you hear people talk about the other two the first thing they point to is like 1-3 models they are real good as if they don't use the army all together they just HAVE to point out that special unit thats good in CC and why its the most powerful thing they worship all day.

Well, I'm sure you've seriously read twilight with a critical eye and thus have a legitimate reason to think so little of it. Well, that or at least have taken in some if the serious literally criticisms on the issues the stories have, after all time is precious and you don't always have time to do it yourself. I'm also positive you have perfectly reasonable and rational reasons why physical affection between men is something of little enough value, that it is amusing to mock through lazily modified images. I'm also sure you've got a very convincing line of reasoning on how both those things not only draw relevant parallels to two factions in a miniatures, but how those parallels form a legitimate criticism of said factions.

I'm sure of all that because otherwise trying to make those comparison in that fashion would be very immature and more then a little bit crude, and I'm positive nobody would around here would do that. Certainly, nobody around here would be silly enough to be crude and immature just to jump on an internet bandwagon on an issue they've never actually considered. We're better than that around here!

Surely.