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if only I could fellate myself.....

I love every time i check in to the forum, the poll is almost exactly the same percentage, just with more votes.

It's very telling.

I guess you just have to decide who you believe....

So, I tended to over look specials in my decisions... how important would you say that is?

Because right now, its jut Jump Packs v. Thunderwolves. But people keep mentioning specials...

... maybe I should have, but I just never gave them much thought.

special characters?

Yes, in my brain wrote the word characters, lol.

ummmmm..... well thats kind of a tough question to answer. If you look at hq choices over all space wolves are definitely stronger because so much of their codex is geared towards the hq section. the special characters of both armies are pretty killy but overpriced. Space wolves are stronger here too though because the best blood angels special character - mephiston - has no invulnerable save and cant join a squad, so he's pretty vulnerable to power weapons and shooting. space wolf special characters have invulnerable saves to protect them and can join squads so theyt're much more survivable. for the same point costs more or less its hard to beat. the sanguinor is strong but just stupid expensive. the crazy vampire chaplain guy is good too but again too expensive. ragnar logan and njal have point costs issues too so really its just about basic hq choices. for blood angels librarians are the only strong hq choice because they are cheap, decent fighters, and can get really good psychic powers. space wolf characters have access to better wargear and the sagas help too. in general though you dont want to play special characters from either army.

Space Wolf HQ units are pretty insane, and all-around great. Of course, the most expensive BA HQ will rip a Thunderlord's arm off and beat him to death with it, but he has his own issues.

You can actually make "vanilla" Wolf Lords with the SW codex that are good. The same cannot be said about BA Captains. With BA, you're either using 1-2 Librarians or a Special Character (and possibly a Librarian).


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AbaddonFidelis wrote:in general though you dont want to play special characters from either army.

And that's just blatantly wrong.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:ummmmm..... well thats kind of a tough question to answer. If you look at hq choices over all space wolves are definitely stronger because so much of their codex is geared towards the hq section. the special characters of both armies are pretty killy but overpriced. Space wolves are stronger here too though because the best blood angels special character - mephiston - has no invulnerable save and cant join a squad, so he's pretty vulnerable to power weapons and shooting. space wolf special characters have invulnerable saves to protect them and can join squads so theyt're much more survivable. for the same point costs more or less its hard to beat. the sanguinor is strong but just stupid expensive. the crazy vampire chaplain guy is good too but again too expensive. ragnar logan and njal have point costs issues too so really its just about basic hq choices. for blood angels librarians are the only strong hq choice because they are cheap, decent fighters, and can get really good psychic powers. space wolf characters have access to better wargear and the sagas help too. in general though you dont want to play special characters from either army.

Well, I was also curious about the Vanilla Marines. I had over looked them due to my DIY status, but I have since realized that If I use an appropriate modle.... I can say they are who ever I want them to be... correct?

dont agree with that. you can make a wolf lord that will kick the crap out of mephiston and he'll end up costing less too.

Seconded

AbaddonFidelis wrote:dont agree with that. you can make a wolf lord that will kick the crap out of mephiston and he'll end up costing less too.

I wasn't talking about Mephiston. He's not the most expensive BA HQ.

yeah. as long as the wargear is modelled right and you explain everything clearly beforehand. vanilla marines unquestionably have the best special characters. BA and SW characters are just close combat fighters. Codex characters give the whole army benefits. vulkan in particular is stronger than anyspecial character out of either book. lysander is also an uber-strong close combat fighter. I'd take him over mephiston or logan any day.


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sanguinor is good but for what he costs he ought to be.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:
sanguinor is good but for what he costs he ought to be.

+1A bubble, turns a Sergeant into a mini Captain, and will beat the snot out of any IC you throw him at, not to mention being a very good heavy infantry mulcher.

All for the price of the average tooled-out Thunderlord.

yeah but the thunderlord can join a squad. you can just shoot the sanguinor.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:yeah but the thunderlord can join a squad. you can just shoot the sanguinor.

Oh... I never realized her can't join a squad... he's just.... near them? I guess...

the problem with the 2 strongest blood angel special characters is that they arent characters at all. theyre infantry squads of 1. they cant hide in squads you can always shoot them. since they're really deadly in close combat of course people will do their best to blow them away before it comes to that, so it takes a good deal of skill to use these guys correctly. its a real handicap and imo is not made up for by their abilities, which are available in one form or another to space wolf and codex players without resorting to a 250+ point special character who can get blown away by any jack ass with a plasmagun.

legomojo wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:yeah but the thunderlord can join a squad. you can just shoot the sanguinor.

Oh... I never realized her can't join a squad... he's just.... near them? I guess...

Nope, they're not ICs.

It's not as bad as it sounds, though; the Sanguinor rolls around with a 2+ armor save and a 3+ invulnerable, and if you're keeping him near units to give them +1A, you're probably getting Feel No Pain from a Sanguinary Priest - in which case, it would statistically take six full Tactical Squads shooting at him to kill him. And, contrary to what was said above, plasma's not the easy answer to him that it is to Meph. Also factor in that the Sanguinor actually does have a Jump Pack, so he can be part of a DoA force, and you should only look at one round of shooting before he's safe in combat.

All depends on what you want out of your HQs. Throw a Thunderlord at most things and he'll eventually kill them; throw Sanguinor at a Thunderlord and he'll eventually kill it, while considerably buffing other elements of your list.

Mephiston is a pure beatstick. He'll kill things, without question, and at T6 and an ungodly amount of wounds, it takes dedicated armor-ignoring fire to bring him down. There's a reason he gets used, after all.

Ultimately, I think Space Wolves is the stronger codex, arguably the best currently in the game. It's remarkably easy to play, and even their "bad" choices aren't crippling. Blood Angels are more of a high wire act.

Seaward wrote: Ultimately, I think Space Wolves is the stronger codex, arguably the best currently in the game. It's remarkably easy to play, and even their "bad" choices aren't crippling. Blood Angels are more of a high wire act.

OOoo... you peaked my interest... what are their "bad choices"

legomojo wrote:

Seaward wrote: Ultimately, I think Space Wolves is the stronger codex, arguably the best currently in the game. It's remarkably easy to play, and even their "bad" choices aren't crippling. Blood Angels are more of a high wire act.

OOoo... you peaked my interest... what are their "bad choices"

Skyclaws and bikers spring to mind. That's really all I can think of without the codex right in front of me, other than some of their SCs.

Yes space wolves are stronger for hq purposes. I prefer blood angels all around. Don't have enough experience with wolves to def say one is better than the other but they're Both strong. Blood angels will probably be easier to model though since there's no thunder wolf model.

Again though OP, what are you interested in? Does fluff play a role at all?

I love the Space Wolf army list. The models are awesome. I don't use either simply because I don't like the fluff. If that's not a consideration for you, then Space Wolves are a very good choice. They're not pure assault, but "pure assault" isn't always necessarily a good thing anyway.

Seriously you can pick any 5th edition dex and be fine tactics wise. There is also nothing stopping you from painting your space marines some off color and playing with what ever dex you feel like at a given moment as long as its WYSIWYG. Buying multiple codex's at a minimum lets you see how other armies work which never hurts and you'll always have the option to use it later. Space marines are really flexible like that.

Wow polls split. Nice!

I played Ultra Smurfs and sadly I could not win to save my life, lol. Space Marines, in my opinion, are the only army (vanilla marines) that anyone can have a backup list to take you out. With so many armies loaded with lascannons/lance weapons now I can't justify bringing half the SM Armor to the table.

I haven't experienced SW yet so I voted for BA since my friend is playing them. We teamed up for a few 2v2 games (BA and CD) and were pretty successful.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Yes space wolves are stronger for hq purposes. I prefer blood angels all around. Don't have enough experience with wolves to def say one is better than the other but they're Both strong. Blood angels will probably be easier to model though since there's no thunder wolf model.

Modeling the wolves is like... the only I WANT to model them Haha.

http://www.mrdandy.com/wargamma-battle-wolves/
http://mythicast.com/?page_id=4#ecwid:category=0&mode=product&product=1220553

Seaward wrote:Again though OP, what are you interested in? Does fluff play a role at all?

No, not really, its all about rules, fun/easy to play, looking cool in white. I have my own fluff in mind.

At my old house in PA (I live in Manhattan now) I have a lot of models that I just got because I thought they were cool (I was like 12)... so my army is kind of a hodge podge... http://gallery.me.com/mallica714#100051

...My dad sent me all the un assembled ones from days of yore (2 tacticals, 1 assault, some termies
, a lib in term, 2 land speeders, and and handful of characters)

Now I'm 23 and I have time and money to begin a new (less barney colored) Chapter.

I LOVE my assault marines... so BA seemed like a great choice. But... I mean... SW looks awesome and WOLVES... riding them... thats so cool! BUT.... now I have read the rules for Vulcan... and I love Thunder Hammers and the firey weapons....

...so I'm just stuck on the fence... and soooo is this poll!

BUT... all this arguing is VERY very insightful. And I appreciate it unendingly.

Then you can do one of two things.

You can, for one, simply pick a codex to go with and run with it...

Or you can pick a codex for now, and simply make sure that (at least most) of what you model would meet WYSIWYG requirements for the other codices. That way, if you went for, say, Blood Angels, and when in five or six more releases Blood Angels have lost a lot of their relative power - as I'm absolutely convinced they will - you can switch over to the Space Wolves. Or vice versa, though I don't see the SW codex becoming underpowered until the next edition.

Wow. Arguing civilly to have new insights and dissect the topic = fellating yourself.

Just... wow.

starsdawn wrote:Wow. Arguing civilly to have new insights and dissect the topic = fellating yourself.

Just... wow.

Whatever even though it seem partially directed at me it was still pretty funny. Personally I think its awesome the polls are so close now that the three books have been out for awhile space marine lovers can't seem to choose between them. This is a good sign of things to come for future codex releases.

cromwest wrote:Whatever even though it seem partially directed at me it was still pretty funny. Personally I think its awesome the polls are so close now that the three books have been out for awhile space marine lovers can't seem to choose between them. This is a good sign of things to come for future codex releases.

Yes, it speaks highly of my potential choices as well. The joy it brings is only equaled by it's frustration. Haha.

legomojo wrote:
Yes, it speaks highly of my potential choices as well. The joy it brings is only equaled by it's frustration. Haha.

I hate you, by the way. You have me, ONCE AGAIN, questioning my choice to go BA over SW.