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Based on my experience of playing a Shrike army with 3 full assault squads, it's not that hard to get multiple squads against any target with a base movement of 6".

Granted, Shrike gives them fleet, but except in turn 1 that's mostly just gravy that allows you to do really refined positioning of which models get into base where or offset the effects of terrain. The effective 18" assault range in every direction is usually plenty for my Ravenguard, so it should be enough for BAs too.

I routinely get multiple charges one after another in every game--far from rare.

Caffran9 wrote:DoA that is all in on the Jump/Drop Troops is super cowboy, and very limited in it's ability. It is very one dimensional and armies with strong shooting such as Mech IG will shoot it to bits without trouble (tested the match 10 times). Horde style armies like Kan Wall Orks (which aren't even consider a top list anymore) and Tyranids will have very favorable matchups agaisnt it too. The list needs depth and support. I've been testing a version with 5-6 Predators in it to much better results than something that goes all out for drop troops. The reason things like Predators are good is because you can always reserve them and they're still really good the turn they come on the table. Autolas Preds can move on 6" and shoot everything. Baal Preds are fast and can outflank. When you go first you have great shooting against some armies if you deploy them on the table. It also becomes a lot easier to deploy your troops on the table in relevant matchups (ie ones where it would be a strong consideration) because they have some support on their way across the table. It is a serious error to think that DoA BA must be played all drop. I thought like this before I finally caved and tried other things, and I'm finding a combination/hybrid to be much, much better.

Best advice so far.

Limiting yourself to one unit type? With no long range weapons for fire support at all? I get the idea that you are trying to "waste" your opponents anti-tank weapons by not including any tanks yourself, but also understand that playing that game makes your armies mono-dimensional, and creates massive blindspots and achilles heels (like the powerblob you discovered, and any mid to high model count nid or ork army would just abuse your lack of infantry control.) Then also consider that missile launchers and lascannons STILL have a wealth of targets, because you are a low model count space marine army with feel no pain. Missiles ignore your armor and your FNP, so its not like the 18 long fang space wolf army is crying because he doesn't have a predator to shoot at. He is just making you scoop entire combat squads with his missiles. Leman russes are doing the same thing but its much worse, as you can't get your meltas in range to stop it because its bubble wrapped by a power blob.

Also, for shooting that doesn't ignore cover saves. Keep in mind that a power blob will likely be under "incoming" orders on your drop turn, rocking a 2+ cover, and if you don't motivate them to move, any IG army won't be pressured in to charging you. Hanging back and trying to whittle them down with bolt pistols should seem insane to anyone. IG is a gunline, if you are not 100% dedicated to an aggressive playstyle, you are going to get shot to bits.

If you want to stay vehicle free, then you are consigning yourself to a sub-optimal list. Just like anyone would be doing if they denied themselves access to an entire FO slot, and were only allowing themselves the use of a single unit type. The good news is, there are plenty of 'vehicle only' mech armies out there that you will continue to crush with your DoA meltas. Just beware of balanced hybrid armies (like power blob IG, semi-foot dark eldar with beastmasters/wrack liquifier spam, semi-foot space wolves with plasma grey hunters) or hordes, their infantry models will ruin your plans.

The 2+ cover save is just more reason to rock them with flamers.

Anyways to say or imply mech IG ia auto win versus DoA is wrong. DoA is the best delivery system for a deep striking army versus mech IG. You have access to lots of meltas, I'm talking about multiple squads that can rock three or more meltas per unit. Guard can only do such much to keep all those meltas at arms length - it's really an uphill battle. A good DoA army is going to come in from reserve, wreck tanks then using them for cover and then assault other tanks. We've got Sanguinary Guard with the 2+ that's impervious to battle cannons and hellhounds. I'm not saying DoA is an auto win versus mech IG just that the reverse is also true. DoA is on the rise, it's one army that is paper to IG's rock.

The average mech IG army will have more tanks than the BA player will have melta guns. Maybe 2x as many tanks.

That is actually in the favor of DoA IMO.

1) Target saturation.
2) Impossible for IG to hide everything/keep it out of melta range.

Remember that pie plates scatter 67% of the time and cover also applies to Blood Angels.

No need to hide everything/keep it out of melta range. If you take out one meltagun for every tank they destroy, you win.

Terminus wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

BloodThirSTAR wrote:I don't think it's accurate to assume in general versus a good opponent you're going to be able to charge two full assault squads into one unit. It's nice when you can but purely situational in my mind.

Why not?

2 blobs+2pcs>2 assault squads+ priest in points.

You are not making any damn sense whatsoever.

First, the PCSs are completely different units doing completely different things (like slagging your armor) in a completely different part of the table. How do they figure into the equation?

Second, you are still dedicating two assault units and a character (about 500 points) against one ~225 point blob.

Third, by doing the above you are exposing yourself to counter-shooting from the whole IG gunline and maybe even counter-assault by the other blob. Expect to lose most of your attack force, if not all of it.

Fact remains, multiple charges are a rare opportunity/occurrence.

The average cost of 30 man blob is going to be closer to 250 once special weapons are added, but I'll say 225 for the sake of argument..

Why fight 225 points with 225 points when you can fight 225 points with 500 points?

The same logic goes for fighting space marines. A squad of CSM, Codex tac marines, or grey hunters costs about as much as an assault squad. Why would a BA player ever engage them in a fair 1 on 1 fight when they have the speed and maneuverability to double team them.

If a BA player can steamroll 225 points with 500 points 3 times across the table that means 1500 points just wiped 675 points from the table. Now the IG player will need to kills 30 assault marines in the next shooting phase (with 675 points gone from his army) to keep up with the BA player's assault phase.

Furthermore why would a BA army ever go into CC without a priest? A priest should always be in the equation unless the BA player is sloppy and gets his priest killed, and once the priests are dead a BA army is no longer a BA army, it's just a codex army painted red with assault squads as scoring units.

Blobs are fat, slow, and difficult to maneuver. If a BA player can't get a multi charge on one the BA player isn't a very good player.
Blobs are fat, slow, and difficult to maneuver. Given the massive size of a blob's footprint it's very likely that the next blob will be >12" after consolidation moves are finished. Even if a blob does get off a charge it's probably going to be into a combat squad, or the squad without the priest but still in the priest's 6" bubble. Net result should come to about 5 dead marines (3pw and 2 normal wounds, if IG gets lucky and scores 4 pw wounds they all go on 2 melta guns and it drops to 2 dead from pw and 2 dead from regular) and 7 dead guardsmen. Then the blob gets counter charged by 15 more assault marines and die in a single round of combat. Net result is the BA traded 100 points of assault marines for 450 points in blobs.

Terminus wrote:The average mech IG army will have more tanks than the BA player will have melta guns. Maybe 2x as many tanks.

Mech IG is an entirely different beast. Once assault marines get into a parking lot it gets ugly as the charge is deadlier than the melta guns.

Melta 2 shots=1.33 hits=1.16 ugly pen

Multi charge 25 regular str 5 CC attacks against multiple vehicles=12.5 hits=2 pens and 2 glances spread out across multiple vehicles (say 5). That probably means 3 of them will not shoot in the next shooting phase, and any immobilized/stunned results are really bad news.

3 S9 Pfist attacks=1.5 hits that glance on a 1 pen on a 2. A pair of regular pens is worse than a single melta pen.

That's just 1 squad an a priest. 2 squads can spit out about 4 glances and 7 pens in CC spread across a the entire parking lot.

Anyhow what I'm trying to say is Mech IG needs to spread out when fighting BA. If the vehicles cluster together into a parking lot they will die on droves once BA get into the parking lot.

If you can charge one blob with two squads of assault Marines then more power to you. You can't really argue against this strategy. If you think about it VV are a great unit versus blob in general since you are pretty much assured a charge... If you can hold them for a turn it's less shooting coming back at you and will make it easier for your other squads to assault.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:If you can charge one blob with two squads of assault Marines then more power to you. You can't really argue against this strategy. If you think about it VV are a great unit versus blob in general since you are pretty much assured a charge... If you can hold them for a turn it's less shooting coming back at you and will make it easier for your other squads to assault.

.... we're playing with blobs without taking Straken? Nothing is more fun then counter attack (and furious charge) on a blob.

Agreed... I've always been curious as to why he's not a more popular choice for blob IG.