Hate for the Space Marines

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**AlmightyWalrus**

candy.man wrote:
Smacks wrote:The fly in the ointment however is that so far half the people I've played so far were also playing BA or SW . It might sound hypocritical but even I as marine player get kind of fed up with all the other marine players. I really want to try out my army against Guard or Nids but they just aren't as common. Marines fighting marines just doesn't seem as interesting.
+1 to this. GW is to blame for the current loyalist MEQ heavy environment. Too many loyalist MEQ releases and not enough balance amongst all the factions. Players who wish to play a 5th edition codex have currently have a choice between 4 loyalist MEQ factions, IG, Tyranids and DE (in other words, 5 “hero” factions 2 “villain” factions). Choice is pretty much a no brainer in these cases. If you don’t like DE or Tyranids and you wish to play a 5th edition codex, you have to choose a loyalist MEQ faction.

I don't know about you, but last time I looked IG weren't MEQ...

**Ascalam**

Mech yes, to the max...

MEQ no..

**SickSix**

I am considering becoming part of the problem. I am now 0-8 with my Tau and am becoming disheartened. I am really considering shelving my Tau for now and assembling my SM army as it is more forgiving and maybe i'll get a win. Or I am just that bad and won't win either way LOL.

My problem is for me to make a competitive Tau list I would have to buy 6 more broadsides, among other models and its just not worth it. Marines are pretty forgiving.

**elementbender**

Zakiriel wrote:I agree, make it one codex for all Space Marine flavors, including the special FoC as needed.
It's like they have been selling essentially the same book with 2 different pages and changed colors on the pictures for far to long.

I as a blood angels player, think the codexs would be

Space marines

Space marine variations

This would explain how various chapters work differently e.g. Blood Angels can take assault squads as troops choices.

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Another reason is that the models are too expensive.

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This is why they are so commen, they don't cost, unlike orks who are a LOT for a big mob.

**Omegus**

I was going to type up all these reasons, but then saw that Vaktathi had already read my mind and done so:

Vaktathi wrote:Several reasons. Few people actually hate Space Marines, but rather the extent of their presence and the attention given to them.

Space Marines are the smallest fighting force in the 40k universe, small enough that 99% of the Imperium's conflicts never see one, and that they are nothing more than a myth to most Imperial citizens. Yet they comprise half the army books. These books often share 80% or more of their units/weapons/wargear and one can easily move between these armies changing a dozen or fewer models, often none. There's a continual pressure to take the smallest diversions in SM armies and use them to make different books, even if they were adequately represented by mere army composition before, or use stuff like simple FoC or weapon swaps. You've got the Chaos Space Marine Legions, huge bands of marines no longer bound by Imperial dictates and probably the most varied group in the 40k universe all sharing one book while tiny Loyalist SM chapters with minor operational differences get their own army books. You have the Imperial Guard, the largest fighting force in the galaxy and another extremely varied fighting force able to produce many competitive and varied builds within one book yet they can't do the same for loyalist SM's. There's an oversaturation of Space Marines and this takes away efforts from other armies.

Each SM book that comes out takes development & marketing time, 4-12 months of release pipeline at least, meaning for each space marine book, you're looking at 10 months or more between non-SM books minimum generally and usually more. There's huge resources devoted to Space Marine marketing and advancement while it is often felt that other forces, that could be made just as popular if given the resources, are ignored. There were 17 Marine Codex books released from when DE got their first book to their update last year. *SEVENTEEN*.

Additionally, Space Marine fluff and background has, in many people's opinions (including my own) has been taking a steady decline in terms of quality for several years. There's a move away from the "cleanse/purge/kill the heretic" type Space Marine, who looks rather techy and brutal, towards more "knights in SPAAACE" spouting off "for the honorable glory of the gloriously glorious honor of glory!" or "wolfmcwolferson with his wolfbrethren riding his wolf while wielding wolfweapons" etc. There's much more of a 'bad internet fanfic' feel to much of the SM fluff of late.

So basically it's a combination of oversaturation, overexposure, decreasing fluff quality and neglect of other armies which further reinforces GW's efforts towards SM armies because the neglected other armies end up not doing well...because they're neglected because too much attention is given to SM's. Or at least that's what is felt.

(in before copy/paste "SPACE MARINES PAY FOR EVERYTHING ELSE" nonsensical response)

EDIT: Also, as others have noted, it's also annoying showing up to the store and of the 5 tables in play, 3 are Marines vs marines, and the other 2 are Marines vs Something Else.

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King Pariah wrote:And this is why I play Rogue Chaos Malal serving Sons of Malice on the side of my Necrons so I can beat up on any person who thinks Ultrasmurfs are the best.

Sons of Malice now worship some nebulous entity called "Malice", or are just plain old renegades. Malal has been lawyered out of 40K.

**IronChaos**

purplefood wrote:
Nerivant wrote:I've seen more "why the hate" than "hate" threads this week.

Ironic isn't it?
Can we make a "I hate why hate threads" thread?

Oh noes, no more memes as "How many CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORTS could a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT transport if CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORTS could transport CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORTS?" Joking ^^

**King Pariah**

Omegus wrote:

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King Pariah wrote:And this is why I play Rogue Chaos Malal serving Sons of Malice on the side of my Necrons so I can beat up on any person who thinks Ultrasmurfs are the best.

Sons of Malice now worship some nebulous entity called "Malice", or are just plain old renegades. Malal has been lawyered out of 40K.

I know, but Malice and Malal are practically the same entity and I prefer calling him Malal.

**Cerebrium**

Out of interest, what do the space marine haters think of Chaos Space Marines?

**iproxtaco**

SickSix wrote:I am considering becoming part of the problem. I am now 0-8 with my Tau and am becoming disheartened. I am really considering shelving my Tau for now and assembling my SM army as it is more forgiving and maybe i'll get a win. Or I am just that bad and won't win either way LOL.

My problem is for me to make a competitive Tau list I would have to buy 6 more broadsides, among other models and its just not worth it. Marines are pretty forgiving.

So, buy a few more Tau models, or buy an entire new army? That's wonderful reasoning there.

**G00fySmiley**

iproxtaco wrote:
SickSix wrote:I am considering becoming part of the problem. I am now 0-8 with my Tau and am becoming disheartened. I am really considering shelving my Tau for now and assembling my SM army as it is more forgiving and maybe i'll get a win. Or I am just that bad and won't win either way LOL.

My problem is for me to make a competitive Tau list I would have to buy 6 more broadsides, among other models and its just not worth it. Marines are pretty forgiving.

So, buy a few more Tau models, or buy an entire new army? That's wonderful reasoning there.

I think the idea is that he can get some models to make them viable now and perhaps have to get somethign different next codex.. and even then how long after the next codex before there will be another tau codex, how many more MEQ codexes will come out between there?

I have a MEQ army to teach peopel to play they are easy and they will always have relevant rules. if you want to be copetetive MEQ are a sure thing, i can see his point he'll never be weak

**Melissia**

Cerebrium wrote:Out of interest, what do the space marine haters think of Chaos Space Marines?

I'm fine with normal Space Marines aside from overexposure, but whinyboy marines have the worst fluff of 40k.

Omegus wrote:
King Pariah wrote:And this is why I play Rogue Chaos Malal serving Sons of Malice on the side of my Necrons so I can beat up on any person who thinks Ultrasmurfs are the best.

Sons of Malice now worship some nebulous entity called "Malice", or are just plain old renegades. Malal has been lawyered out of 40K.

They're also extremly poorly written, like they took some thing off of a random sixteen year old fanwank off a blog or other.

**Omegus**

You'll get no argument from me there. They are a basically an attempt at an Imperium-independent Chapter that is not Chaos corrupted, not even in the Astral Claws/Red Corsairs peripheral-corruption kind of way. But they still eat people and ritually sacrifice them on altars.

Cerebrium wrote:Out of interest, what do the space marine haters think of Chaos Space Marines?

They've gotten a lot more tame, although that has more to do with Chaos I think than the actual Marines. Chaos used to be a lot more flavorful, the individual powers a lot more sick and twisted, animosity, legion rules, etc. All that was stripped away. Now the only CSM hate you hear is about their boring, bland codex.

**Shayden**

Wow! I didn't expect this thread to get past page one, let alone five!

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Cerebrium wrote:Out of interest, what do the space marine haters think of Chaos Space Marines?

They're basically the same, but louder. And crazier...

**Tyranids? Tyranids.**

Of the regulars that come to the local games workshop in my area only two are space marine players. I do think however that they get too much attention.

**Kanluwen**

Cerebrium wrote:Out of interest, what do the space marine haters think of Chaos Space Marines?

While not a Space Marine Hater, I also think that Chaos(period: not Chaos Space Marines) need more love.

I.e.--
"Shattered Oaths"--Rules for Red Corsair styled renegade Marines with very little in the way of daemonic weirdness. Generic 'chaos' breed mercs, like the Loxatl and renegade Guardsmen.
"Prayers of the Fallen"--Rules for the Black Legion, Word Bearers, World Eaters Emperor's Children, Death Guard, Thousand Sons and their stylized cult armies. Lots of daemonic shenanigans as well.
"Broken Faith"--Rules for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Raptor Cults, Blood Pact, et al. Fully dedicated to Chaos and the destruction of humanity, but generally in such a way that they're really 'Undivided'.

**Chagear**

While I agree that the SM get too much attention. The amount of codex that they recive is a note not on the "are their too many that are the same" but "why are the releases so few". GW could and SHOULD be able to release more codex with proper play testing and revision. Have 1 to 5 guys write every codex and saying nothing of play testing or market study?.... Just plain lazy(over the course of a year- with all the money they make you must be

me!

). The other armies have so much potential and it is lots in the sea of sloth and apathy on GW's part

and other choice words!

I play a SM army, but that doesn't mean I don't see the point. out of 9 people in my club 5 play SM... though 3 have (or have plans) other armies.