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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 21:54:06
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Storm Guard
Salt Lake City, Utah
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Why? Everywhere I look people are hating on the Space Marines! I understand that they are very popular with newbies, but that doesn't seem like a very good reason. Are they just considered cheap? Is it because of Matt Ward? Help me out here!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 21:55:57
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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They represent a lot of codeci even though they are relatively rare in the background.
Most of the codeci are also so astoundingly similar people can just jump from 1 codex to another without having to actually do much...
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 21:56:41
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
Karthu'ul, the Heart of the Universe
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I've seen more "why the hate" than "hate" threads this week.
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There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 21:57:49
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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Nerivant wrote:I've seen more "why the hate" than "hate" threads this week.
Ironic isn't it?
Can we make a "I hate why hate threads" thread?
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:01:37
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets
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purplefood wrote:Nerivant wrote:I've seen more "why the hate" than "hate" threads this week.
Ironic isn't it?
Can we make a "I hate why hate threads" thread?
Don't see why not. Go for it
There isn't so much hate for Space Marines, just a few of them. Ultramarines for being everywhere and somewhat bland (personal), Blood Angels for... urm... well Wardism I guess. And Space Wolves for being very cookie-cutter - typical Razorback/Long Fang/Rune Priest/ TWC lists... apparently (yet to see it myself).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:02:08
Subject: Re:Hate for the Space Marines
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Storm Guard
Salt Lake City, Utah
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It seems I've hit a nerve...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:02:57
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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If GW supported the rest of the universe as thoroughly as they did the Space Marines (new codex every edition, new models and options every time etc) there would eb a good deal less hate.
I have no issue with Space Marines being a cool faction (s). I do take issue when GW plays favorites and lavishes everything on the boys in big shoulderplates, and nothing on anyone else.
The new Dark Eldar release, and the rumored Necron release are doing a lot to help the state of irritation with GW's posterboys, but one has to wonder how many editions it will be until they see another update following this one
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The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:03:16
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Maryland
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Why the hate?
1. The miniatures. The Space Marines, in all their various flavors, have the most plastic kits available (TWC excluded). Some Codices *coughNIDScough* are still waiting for model releases.
2. The amount. We've now got the Blue Marines, the Grey Marines, the Silvery-Grey Marines, the Red Marines, the Green Marines and the Black marines. 6 Codices that take away from other codex updates (although, the Black and Green marines are starting to look a little dusty). 6 Codices that could easily be consolidated into a single book.
3. The Ride. Getting on the bandwagon is easy enough. And when you feel as if you're amongst friends, why would you want to get off?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/02 22:03:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:03:55
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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Shayden wrote:Why? Everywhere I look people are hating on the Space Marines! I understand that they are very popular with newbies, but that doesn't seem like a very good reason. Are they just considered cheap? Is it because of Matt Ward? Help me out here!
I think a lot of it is just people getting tired of playing nearly every game against Marines. As a non-Marine player, its just kinda annoying to be playing against the same army all the time. Sure, there are different colors, but from my perspective they aren't 'that' different when it comes to playstyle.
That said, I don't 'hate' them, just kinda tired of them.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/02 22:04:40
Sometimes, you just gotta take something cause the model is freakin cool... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:06:06
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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EDIT:Never mind
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/02 22:06:25
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:07:15
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Maryland
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purplefood wrote:EDIT:Never mind
Wait, what? What were you going to say?
The world demands answers!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:08:33
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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infinite_array wrote:purplefood wrote:EDIT:Never mind
Wait, what? What were you going to say?
The world demands answers!
The world can keep demanding then can't it...
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:11:50
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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Shayden wrote:Why? Everywhere I look people are hating on the Space Marines! I understand that they are very popular with newbies, but that doesn't seem like a very good reason. Are they just considered cheap? Is it because of Matt Ward? Help me out here!
Several reasons. Few people actually hate Space Marines, but rather the extent of their presence and the attention given to them.
Space Marines are the smallest fighting force in the 40k universe, small enough that 99% of the Imperium's conflicts never see one, and that they are nothing more than a myth to most Imperial citizens. Yet they comprise half the army books. These books often share 80% or more of their units/weapons/wargear and one can easily move between these armies changing a dozen or fewer models, often none. There's a continual pressure to take the smallest diversions in SM armies and use them to make different books, even if they were adequately represented by mere army composition before, or use stuff like simple FoC or weapon swaps. You've got the Chaos Space Marine Legions, huge bands of marines no longer bound by Imperial dictates and probably the most varied group in the 40k universe all sharing one book while tiny Loyalist SM chapters with minor operational differences get their own army books. You have the Imperial Guard, the largest fighting force in the galaxy and another extremely varied fighting force able to produce many competitive and varied builds within one book yet they can't do the same for loyalist SM's. There's an oversaturation of Space Marines and this takes away efforts from other armies.
Each SM book that comes out takes development & marketing time, 4-12 months of release pipeline at least, meaning for each space marine book, you're looking at 10 months or more between non- SM books minimum generally and usually more. There's huge resources devoted to Space Marine marketing and advancement while it is often felt that other forces, that could be made just as popular if given the resources, are ignored. There were 17 Marine Codex books released from when DE got their first book to their update last year. *SEVENTEEN*.
Additionally, Space Marine fluff and background has, in many people's opinions (including my own) has been taking a steady decline in terms of quality for several years. There's a move away from the "cleanse/purge/kill the heretic" type Space Marine, who looks rather techy and brutal, towards more "knights in SPAAACE" spouting off "for the honorable glory of the gloriously glorious honor of glory!" or "wolfmcwolferson with his wolfbrethren riding his wolf while wielding wolfweapons" etc. There's much more of a 'bad internet fanfic' feel to much of the SM fluff of late.
So basically it's a combination of oversaturation, overexposure, decreasing fluff quality and neglect of other armies which further reinforces GW's efforts towards SM armies because the neglected other armies end up not doing well...because they're neglected because too much attention is given to SM's. Or at least that's what is felt.
(in before copy/paste "SPACE MARINES PAY FOR EVERYTHING ELSE" nonsensical response)
EDIT: Also, as others have noted, it's also annoying showing up to the store and of the 5 tables in play, 3 are Marines vs marines, and the other 2 are Marines vs Something Else.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/02 22:21:35
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:18:42
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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I don't hate SM. I don't even hate Ultramarines. I do get frustrated with how GW neglects the rest of the game to pile on the love for their select favorites.
Fluff wise I really only hate Spacwolves. Leman Russ is a tool.
But it does get tiring with 7 out of 10 opponents play power armor.
Every IP needs it's flagship or franchise player so to speak. But to neglect the rest of the IP in the ways GW has done to overly favor it's franchise player, probably does more harm to the hobby than good.
(saying all that I am doing a SM army after my Tau are finished. But at least I started a xeno!)
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SickSix's Silver Skull WIP thread
My Youtube Channel
JSF wrote:... this is really quite an audacious move by GW, throwing out any pretext that this is a game and that its customers exist to do anything other than buy their overpriced products for the sake of it. The naked arrogance, greed and contempt for their audience is shocking. = Epic First Post.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:22:36
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Roaring Reaver Rider
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I agree that the space marines are getting way too much love from GW. One codex in my opinnion would be enough and I'd like to see more of the models coming out that some other armies don't have yet. My brother collects nids and would like to have certain units but would have to convert them and he doesn't really like to convert that much.
And a side note, I myself collect marines as my primary army.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/02 22:23:10
I shall rule the world someday utilizing my cuteness. And I already have one minion to help me do it!
Hollowman wrote:
Of course it makes sense. When there are a bunch of BDSM clowns doing Olympic gymnast routines throughout your unit, while also cutting off heads, you tend to get a bit distracted.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:24:30
Subject: Re:Hate for the Space Marines
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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I agree, make it one codex for all Space Marine flavors, including the special FoC as needed.
It's like they have been selling essentially the same book with 2 different pages and changed colors on the pictures for far to long.
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Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
>Raptors Lead the Way < |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:27:11
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Roaring Reaver Rider
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I like the way the special characters with chapter tactics work. Using that idea a single marine codex would work well in my opinnion.
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I shall rule the world someday utilizing my cuteness. And I already have one minion to help me do it!
Hollowman wrote:
Of course it makes sense. When there are a bunch of BDSM clowns doing Olympic gymnast routines throughout your unit, while also cutting off heads, you tend to get a bit distracted.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:28:27
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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I disagree. You could do all of them in about 3 maybe 4 codeci... I would shift the focus from SM to IG personally... Normal people fighting against the monsters of nightmares is much more grimdark...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/02 22:28:35
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:32:55
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Roaring Reaver Rider
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You are right. The guard is more numerous and everywhere. And they are the basic troops of the imperium. They should be focused on more.
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I shall rule the world someday utilizing my cuteness. And I already have one minion to help me do it!
Hollowman wrote:
Of course it makes sense. When there are a bunch of BDSM clowns doing Olympic gymnast routines throughout your unit, while also cutting off heads, you tend to get a bit distracted.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:33:20
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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purplefood wrote:I disagree.
You could do all of them in about 3 maybe 4 codeci...
I would shift the focus from SM to IG personally...
Normal people fighting against the monsters of nightmares is much more grimdark...
And as has been said before: shifting focus from SM to IG would rebalance a lot of the game...but 40k would also lose the most iconic and easily identifiable faction as its poster boys.
People aren't drawn in by the grunts in the mud dying to hold a tiny piece of ground. They're drawn in by the guys in the spotless armor, striding across the field and shrugging off fire while smiting the foe.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:34:42
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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I can see that...
Maybe just give the other factions a bit more support instead then.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:36:10
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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infinite_array wrote:2. The amount. We've now got the Blue Marines, the Grey Marines, the Silvery-Grey Marines, the Red Marines, the Green Marines and the Black marines. 6 Codices that take away from other codex updates (although, the Black and Green marines are starting to look a little dusty). 6 Codices that could easily be consolidated into a single book.
Seven . You also have the whiny marines of the CSMs.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:37:11
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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But here's the rub. Even if support for Space Marines was cut to virtually nothing, Tyranids got a dozen kits, Tau got a dozen kits, both flavors of Eldar got a dozen kits, Necrons and Orks got a dozen each, and then Guard/Marines between the two of them got 5-6--there'd still be complaining.
I mean, all honesty--look at what we've been hearing in threads about Warhammer Forge or the new Eldar stuff. People are already wanting them to "move on from Eldar"--and this is the first time Eldar have seen the inside of an IA book.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:39:41
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Indeed, some people are really just that stupid. Also, 10,000 posts? I need a life.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/02 22:39:58
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:49:19
Subject: Re:Hate for the Space Marines
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Stormin' Stompa
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I've played for five years, and I've only ever faced something other than marines twice, they've made the game very stale for me.
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Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 22:51:22
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Storm Guard
Salt Lake City, Utah
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Melissia wrote:Indeed, some people are really just that stupid.
Also, 10,000 posts? I need a life.
Do you think it's strange that I feel honored by having the 10,000th post by Melissia being on one of my threads? Because I don't! Automatically Appended Next Post: You guys are giving some very good arguments! Keep it up!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/02 22:59:59
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 23:01:46
Subject: Re:Hate for the Space Marines
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Mr Nobody wrote:I've played for five years, and I've only ever faced something other than marines twice, they've made the game very stale for me.
And this is the keynote. It's bad for the game mmmkay
('it' being Space Marine oversaturation)
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SickSix's Silver Skull WIP thread
My Youtube Channel
JSF wrote:... this is really quite an audacious move by GW, throwing out any pretext that this is a game and that its customers exist to do anything other than buy their overpriced products for the sake of it. The naked arrogance, greed and contempt for their audience is shocking. = Epic First Post.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 23:09:53
Subject: Re:Hate for the Space Marines
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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SickSix wrote:Mr Nobody wrote:I've played for five years, and I've only ever faced something other than marines twice, they've made the game very stale for me.
And this is the keynote. It's bad for the game mmmkay
('it' being Space Marine oversaturation)
I've played for 14 years now. Have had nothing of this "oversaturation of Marines".
I've faced exactly six Marine players in my area over that 14 years.
There's no truth to this idiotic rumor of "oversaturation". It's simply overblown, because more often than not everyone has at least one Marine force that they can bring out.
Try changing up missions, try playing campaigns from the ground up, et al. Just do something that encourages people to work on something other than Marines and you will see a drop in Marine players, I can almost 100% guarantee it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 23:20:39
Subject: Hate for the Space Marines
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
Dumbarton, Scotland
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They're just...bland. The absolute average. The mean.
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Karyorhexxus' Sons of the Locust: 1000pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/02 23:20:56
Subject: Re:Hate for the Space Marines
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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Kanluwen wrote:I've played for 14 years now. Have had nothing of this "oversaturation of Marines".
I've faced exactly six Marine players in my area over that 14 years.
There's no truth to this idiotic rumor of "oversaturation". It's simply overblown, because more often than not everyone has at least one Marine force that they can bring out.
Try changing up missions, try playing campaigns from the ground up, et al. Just do something that encourages people to work on something other than Marines and you will see a drop in Marine players, I can almost 100% guarantee it.
Having played in multiple metro areas in severals states, it was the rare store where Space Marines were only a plurality. Almost everywhere I've played SM's have been the majority of armies present, or eventually became so. Just because your area may not be so (in which case I do envy you) doesn't many others aren't. Especially large tournaments, look at the Adepticon attendance records for 40k and you'll see what I mean.
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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