Why don't space Marines use Camo?

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**Grey Templar**

LumenPraebeo wrote:
Maniac_nmt wrote:They are dunces when it comes to strategy. Shock and awe works to a point, but reading the Horus Heresey novels, Death Guard, Blood Angels, Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus, Space Wolves, Word Bearers, World Eaters, basically all boil down to 'rar...rush 'em boys'' The Marines get shot in the face and cut to ribbons, often in ways that they shouldn't because they just run into the guns. While I haven't read the Dark Angel books, so far only the Ultramarines and the Emporer's Children use any kind of tactical know how. Even then sooner or later it bogs into 'my pride says I shant hide, so rar rush 'em boys!'.

First World War and the Civil War pretty much nullify your point. Massing up like that gets you dead (as it often gets guys dead that wouldn't have to die if they moved judiciously). Rapid fire weapons, artillery, bored rifles, chemical weapons, etc pretty much nuked the 'line up and bum rush 'em' unless you massively outnumbered your foes. Marine armor, even in the books, doesn't stop grenades, many bullets, rockets, etc. Pretty much every historian will tell you way more people died in both of those conflicts than needed to due to antiquated 'line up and fire/bum rush' tactics.

In the book, you only read about the open field and siege battles, but there was one point in the Horus Heresy, the last stand of the loyalists at Istvaan III, tactics other than rushing were used to good effect against the traitor legions who laid siege to Choral city in the so called rush tactic because of number advantages. But other than that battle, there are many other battles in urban, jungle, and close up environments where Astartes fight in other ways than their usual shock attacks. One reason why you read about them fighting the way they do is simply because they're Astartes, the advantages of a straight up rush the foe outweighs the advantages of careful planning to avoid a few deaths.

During the first world war, they did NOT form ranks to fight, they fought most engagements in trenches because the enemy did, and when the enemy hides behind cover to shoot at you, it makes sense to do the same. That doesn't mean rank and file doesn't work, it simply means it isn't suitable for this kind of engagement because your opponent is not on open field, and if he isn't, it doesn't make much sense for you to be either. During the Civil War, they DID line up the troops to fight. Casualties during the Civil War was massive, but it didn't prove it was a disadvantage, because they never fought any massive engagements in urban environments, it was open field. Besides that, I wasn't talking about world war one, I was talking about 17th to 19th century warfare, where such strategies were plausible because both opposing factions choose to fight on open field. A strategy adopted from the roman legions, where you can minimize your disadvantages, and maximize your advantages with more fire power, troops, and broadsides.

That is in effect, what the Primarch's were thinking when they moved their troops in rank and file against opponents on open field and while laying siege. They do so despite enemy firepower, artillery, and unconventional weapons because they can shrug off the casualties. Again,the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, and also outweigh advantages of other methods.

the reason the Civil war was so deadly was because they were using 17th century tactics with 19th century weaponry.

both sides had Rifles or rifled muskets which were extremely accurate unlike the smoothbores that the line tactics had been designed around. as such, the rounds fired were fiendishly accurate and most would hit home. the Line formations were for when you couldn't hit anything reliably beyond 40 yards and needed to fire in massed vollys too hit anything.

other advances also contruibuted, like 7 shot carbines which could hold multiple rounds. there was a case of a small union dragoon platoon with these weapons cutting down nearly a whole Confederate regiment before they even got a chance to fire.

**Frazzled**

MajorTom11 wrote:11ft tall super-soldiers don't need camo.

11ft without armor. I'm sure your average space marine is at least 12.5 feet tall in armor. Thats why they can take out sentinels easily. They just reach in and punch the driver in the face.

**Cerebrium**

The same reason Knights wore their house colours.

**Frazzled**

Cerebrium wrote:The same reason Knights wore their house colours.

And they got slaughtered while wearing their house colors of course...

**DeadlySquirrel**

Frazzled wrote:
Cerebrium wrote:The same reason Knights wore their house colours.

And they got slaughtered while wearing their house colors of course...

But they did it with pride. And that is all the matters.

**dalsiandon**

Frazzled wrote:
MajorTom11 wrote:11ft tall super-soldiers don't need camo.

11ft without armor. I'm sure your average space marine is at least 12.5 feet tall in armor. Thats why they can take out sentinels easily. They just reach in and punch the driver in the face.

I've never seen that happen but it's sci-fi/hyper fantasy so I guess anything is possible

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Cerebrium wrote:The same reason Knights wore their house colours.

And they got slaughtered while wearing their house colors of course...

But they did it with pride. And that is all the matters.

I'm sure there are plenty who agreed (the survivors) and others( mainly the dead guys) who would care to disagree (if they were so able).

**snake**

Monster Rain wrote:Yeah, totally. Anything over 9 feet tall wearing power armor and shooting a full auto rocket launcher doesn't need camoflage, it needs badass background music.

/thread

SMs should have dedicated boombox carriers who play above mentioned badass music.

**fleet of claw**

snake wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:Yeah, totally. Anything over 9 feet tall wearing power armor and shooting a full auto rocket launcher doesn't need camoflage, it needs badass background music.

/thread

SMs should have dedicated boombox carriers who play above mentioned badass music.

Yea it is sort of hard not to notice a 9 foot tall monster charging at you with a pistol and chainsword wether it is camouflaged or not

**Frazzled**

dalsiandon wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
MajorTom11 wrote:11ft tall super-soldiers don't need camo.

11ft without armor. I'm sure your average space marine is at least 12.5 feet tall in armor. Thats why they can take out sentinels easily. They just reach in and punch the driver in the face.

I've never seen that happen but it's sci-fi/hyper fantasy so I guess anything is possible

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Cerebrium wrote:The same reason Knights wore their house colours.

And they got slaughtered while wearing their house colors of course...

But they did it with pride. And that is all the matters.

I'm sure there are plenty who agreed (the survivors) and others( mainly the dead guys) who would care to disagree (if they were so able).

You have to remember the minis are a representation. The sentinels are larger to show their relative size vs. guard, not Marines. Indeed a terminator probably towers over a wimpy sentinel and just reaches in to squish the driver.

**Kanluwen**

Frazzled wrote:

You have to remember the minis are a representation. The sentinels are larger to show their relative size vs. guard, not Marines. Indeed a terminator probably towers over a wimpy sentinel and just reaches in to squish the driver.

This was funny for about five minutes, but stopped days ago.

Sentinels are larger vehicles than Terminators and Astartes.
Astartes are 8-9 feet tall, on the average. There may be a few who "tower" above their compatriots, just like there might be a 7 or 8 foot tall Guardsman while the rest of the regiment is 5 feet 9 inches tall on the average.

**Frazzled**

Kanluwen wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

You have to remember the minis are a representation. The sentinels are larger to show their relative size vs. guard, not Marines. Indeed a terminator probably towers over a wimpy sentinel and just reaches in to squish the driver.

This was funny for about five minutes, but stopped days ago.

Sentinels are larger vehicles than Terminators and Astartes.
Astartes are 8-9 feet tall, on the average. There may be a few who "tower" above their compatriots, just like there might be a 7 or 8 foot tall Guardsman while the rest of the regiment is 5 feet 9 inches tall on the average.

You're just jealous because of the marines obvious manliness and superior, er attributes, next to your puny forces. Don't be jealous Kanluwen. You know the truth of it. They say the first step is acceptance. Its like when guys with lasguns inevitably take down said terminators despite the odds. Its not damage from the lasguns themselves, its the terminator trying to rub his eye from the annoyance of the pretty twinkling lights, and forgetting he's wearing a powerfist.

Space Marines, taller than your guys since M31.

**nevertellmetheodds**

Marines are shock troops, they arrive fast and hard so you see them anyway, its hard even with camo to hide a 8ft tall armoured dude anyway. Guess it helps with friend foe recognition also, I bet imperial fists never get friendly fire incidents.

**Psienesis**

snake wrote:SMs should have dedicated boombox carriers who play above mentioned badass music.

Then you run into this problem: