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Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

I would advise other users to keep their finecast models cool and unstressed.

Sod the models, it's us members that need to keep cool and unstressed!

I would advise everyone to love and cherish their metal models.

I hope that my comments have not come across as being too harsh. However, it could truly be tragic if people subjected their minis to extremes of temperatures on account of this thread.

I am not the only one to have problems with bases warping and melting. see the following thread from a few years back
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/212875.page

Plastic vehicles also warp from heat exposure.

Augustus wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

I would advise other users to keep their finecast models cool and unstressed.

Sod the models, it's us members that need to keep cool and unstressed!

I would advise everyone to love and cherish their metal models.

Still trying to decide what to do with what is nearly $1000 worth of GW metal models. On the one hand I say keep 'em...on the other I says...'Sssellls themmm'.

Rymafyr wrote:

Augustus wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

I would advise other users to keep their finecast models cool and unstressed.

Sod the models, it's us members that need to keep cool and unstressed!

I would advise everyone to love and cherish their metal models.

Still trying to decide what to do with what is nearly $1000 worth of GW metal models. On the one hand I say keep 'em...on the other I says...'Sssellls themmm'.

I would keep them, because in 10 years when everyone is using finecast and you whip out some metal models, it will be all "OOOOOOHH, AAAAAAHHH, Special....VERY Special"

dajobe wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:

Augustus wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

I would advise other users to keep their finecast models cool and unstressed.

Sod the models, it's us members that need to keep cool and unstressed!

I would advise everyone to love and cherish their metal models.

Still trying to decide what to do with what is nearly $1000 worth of GW metal models. On the one hand I say keep 'em...on the other I says...'Sssellls themmm'.

I would keep them, because in 10 years when everyone is using finecast and you whip out some metal models, it will be all "OOOOOOHH, AAAAAAHHH, Special....VERY Special"

That and $1000 of metal models really just means "I have a metal army"

targetawg wrote:

dajobe wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:

Augustus wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

I would advise other users to keep their finecast models cool and unstressed.

Sod the models, it's us members that need to keep cool and unstressed!

I would advise everyone to love and cherish their metal models.

Still trying to decide what to do with what is nearly $1000 worth of GW metal models. On the one hand I say keep 'em...on the other I says...'Sssellls themmm'.

I would keep them, because in 10 years when everyone is using finecast and you whip out some metal models, it will be all "OOOOOOHH, AAAAAAHHH, Special....VERY Special"

That and $1000 of metal models really just means "I have a metal army"

Like my fully painted Necron Raider Army that gets oooohhhh and aaaahs when it is presented out on a game table.

And I win with it too

For what it's worth, a buddy left a Privateer Storm Strider in his car for a few days (and even 5 minutes is too long here in Texas), and it warped slightly. So all resin is vulnerable to heat.

From this and similar threads I've read, it seems Finecast is no less vulnerable, and perhaps more so. Combined with the atrocious casting quality and lack of QC, I'll be passing on Finecast models.

Nice! It looks like a nice model. Post a pic when your done!

Omegus wrote:So all resin is vulnerable to heat.

Exactly so. The precise temp and reaction vary but all resins will soften from heating.

So basically this whole expensive and time-consuming experiment was meant to point out the obvious: that with enough exposure, extreme heat will warp resin models.

I don't mean to undermine what nkelsch has done or the sacrifices made in the name of science, but I just don't see the point. Clearly the claim that Finecast will "melt into goo" was bs, but that doesn't mean that everything we know is wrong and that it suddenly might be okay to start leaving entire armies in the trunks of our cars in 100 degree weather for hours on end. Up until this point I just assumed it was common sense that resin/plastic models would soften and warp when hot, and that people who cared about the models they spent a fortune on wouldn't use the trunk of their car as a permanent storage solution*. I don't know why all of a sudden people thought resin wouldn't warp or bend in heat and needed someone to prove it to them...I'd like to know how you guys have been fixing warped parts from Forge World models this whole time.

Hell, the release of Finecast seems to have caused everyone to regress into hobby noobs apparently. Remember when people were claiming the models didn't have to be washed and you could apply paint to them directly because GW didn't use mold release? When I got my replacement box of incubi I noticed that some of the models were covered in powder, which is dried mold release and needs to be rinsed off if you want paint to stick. So yeah, needless to say I'll be ignoring that particular piece of advice and washing every resin model I get (not Finecast though because I'm not buying that crap anymore).

That's just my opinion though. I don't think the results from the beach trip have been posted yet, so I'll be curious to see what the models look like after that. EDIT: I just missed them apparently. Okay, whatever, I still think storing your models in extreme heat is careless and stupid but if you guys really wanna do that then go right ahead.



*Seriously, you guys that do this gak, stop it. I don't care how "safe" you think it is. Even if you live in an area where it's possible to pull your car up to a gas station and leave the motor running and the windows down while you go inside to buy something, and not have your car stolen immediately, does that change the fact that it's still a boneheaded fething thing to do? I see people do that crap around here all the time and I always secretly hope someone does attempt to steal one of those cars if for no other reason than to teach those people a lesson: don't leave an open invitation. I never leave my apartment door unlocked, and whenever I park my car I always leave the windows up and doors locked. I really don't understand how people can be so careless.

I bought one of GWs new plastic necromancer models today and for all the hype (and indeed anti-hype) regarding finecast, I really, really, really hope this is the way they will go with single miniatures from now on.

The model is nicely sculpted and is simplicity itself to put together. The molded base (with a skeleton depressed into some mud) is a great touch. Mold lines are present, but are fairly minimal.

Seriously, this kit takes both finecast and metal miniatures and stomps them into the dirt. Beyond a few barely visible mold lines, there are literally no problems of any sort. I can kind of see why GW used finecast for the older miniature lines, but if you're reading this GW, more of these plastic single miniatures for the new stuff please

Indeed, I got one of those necromancers too, and it is a brilliant model. Well worth the £8 price tag, to me.

Flashman wrote:I bought one of GWs new plastic necromancer models today and for all the hype (and indeed anti-hype) regarding finecast, I really, really, really hope this is the way they will go with single miniatures from now on.

The model is nicely sculpted and is simplicity itself to put together. The molded base (with a skeleton depressed into some mud) is a great touch. Mold lines are present, but are fairly minimal.

Seriously, this kit takes both finecast and metal miniatures and stomps them into the dirt. Beyond a few barely visible mold lines, there are literally no problems of any sort. I can kind of see why GW used finecast for the older miniature lines, but if you're reading this GW, more of these plastic single miniatures for the new stuff please

Amen brother! Got the Sorceress, Necromancer and Tzeentch Sorceror so far. Each one has minimal mould lines (seriously, once deft scrape and they're gone) and are simply gorgeous.

MOAR PLS!

Sidstyler wrote:So basically this whole expensive and time-consuming experiment was meant to point out the obvious: that with enough exposure, extreme heat will warp resin models.

I don't mean to undermine what nkelsch has done or the sacrifices made in the name of science, but I just don't see the point. Clearly the claim that Finecast will "melt into goo" was bs, but that doesn't mean that everything we know is wrong and that it suddenly might be okay to start leaving entire armies in the trunks of our cars in 100 degree weather for hours on end.

The point is that many of us go to a weekly wargaming evening on a weeknight, directly after work. It is often more convenient to leave our models in the trunk of our car (which is neither in direct sunlight nor an obvious invitation to thieves) than to bring the cases into our workplace for the day.

In New Hampshire it is frequently in the 80s during the summer, sometimes spiking into the 90s and even high 90s. I have never had a problem leaving my plastic or metal models in the trunk, in their cases, and I've been doing this for over ten years. I have had a display board which I carelessly left in the rear window warp, and I have seen tanks which some fool left in direct sunlight on a hot day warp as well.

The point of the exercise is to determine if Finecast stands a greater risk/is damaged or warped at lower temperatures than the plastic models whose tolerances we know pretty well. What constitutes "extreme" heat varies depending on your personal locale and climate. Obviously none of us intent to leave our models on the dashboard for extended periods, and we can assume that none of us are dumb enough to leave our cases exposed invitingly for thieves. But nkelsch's experiments are meant to test the extremes. The temperature on his dashboard in sunlight might be the trunk temperature in parts of Texas, or southern Spain, or elsewhere in the world where some Dakkanaut is reading.

Well said Mannahnin. I have been following this thread since it started, and I find it quite interesting... especially as it's being conducted at the lower temperatures that it is.

Out here in Arizona...( i.e. THE DESERT) it can reach 100 by the end of spring, and easily reaches 120 in the summer. So the lower temps are of interest to me, since if it's too hot at the lower temps.... well, way too hot here.

Thank you nkelsch for conducting this experiment and sharing the results with the rest of us.

Mannahnin wrote:The point is that many of us go to a weekly wargaming evening on a weeknight, directly after work. It is often more convenient to leave our models in the trunk of our car (which is neither in direct sunlight nor an obvious invitation to thieves) than to bring the cases into our workplace for the day.

Admittedly I hadn't thought of that, mostly because I couldn't imagine going to something like that right after a shift.

Yup. It's something quite a large number of us do, so the safety of our models in the trunk during the Summer is a very relevant concern. My FLGS is roughly halfway between my office and my home. I'd be getting to the store a good 45 min to an hour later if I went home first. Plus just spending that extra time and gas driving.

Sidstyler wrote:So basically this whole expensive and time-consuming experiment was meant to point out the obvious: that with enough exposure, extreme heat will warp resin models.

I don't mean to undermine what nkelsch has done or the sacrifices made in the name of science, but I just don't see the point. Clearly the claim that Finecast will "melt into goo" was bs

I feel I must stress that this particular "claim" was never made, at least not by people critical of Finecast. The point was brought up that some reports suggest that Finecast is particularly susceptible to heat (which indeed seems to be the case, I've left FW resin in the trunk for days without any noticeable warping or chipping of paint), the whole "melt into goo" histrionics were voiced by the apologists, because it's standard practice for tools to exaggerate an opponent's position and make ad hominem attacks when they don't have a better argument.

Okay, whatever, I still think storing your models in extreme heat is careless and stupid but if you guys really wanna do that then go right ahead.

As for this point, several posters above me have already pointed out why not being able to leave your stuff in the car for a couple of hours may be of serious concern.

Omegus, the guy who posted the original Gandalf pics stated (earlier in this thread) that he personally encountered at least one person who had heard an exaggerated "turn into goo" story, and thought that's what the original article had claimed.

Omegus wrote:

Okay, whatever, I still think storing your models in extreme heat is careless and stupid but if you guys really wanna do that then go right ahead.

As for this point, several posters above me have already pointed out why not being able to leave your stuff in the car for a couple of hours may be of serious concern.

Yes. And if you think that's going to stop other people from pointing out my stupidity long after the fact then you're wrong!

Let me amend that then by saying it would be "careless and stupid" in just about any other situation.

While we are on the topic of melting models, what do forgeworld stuff do in the heat? Or do they go all flopsy?

Personally, I am more worried about theft over heat when leaving models in my car. When I was weeknight gaming frequently, I brought my figures inside to work. Of course that is a luxury because I have an office job with a secure office to keep my junk in. Not everyone has that. I have had worse problems from leaving metal figs in COLD temps where the expanding/shrinking of metal attached to plastic caused chips and pieces to break off. No one ever called metal the devil because of that.

It is always a personal decision to leave figures in cars and risk damage. Finecast GETS SOFT. It also has Memory. Unless you smoosh your models in your case you probably will be fine in most circumstances. If you are worried, then make bigger foam holes without lying the model on its side or smooshed too hard between foam. If that is too risky, avoid the material and stick to plastic.

So far, I am not deterred from buying finecast. I can handle the heat and the 'flaws' are easy to avoid buying at GW. I don't find it too different from forgeworld or other softer resins I have. Harder resins are not always BETTER as harder it is, more prone to shattering it is.

Now I just want to know about paint and stripping.

EagleArk wrote:While we are on the topic of melting models, what do forgeworld stuff do in the heat? Or do they go all flopsy?

They definitely warp, and don't have that great of memory (heated forgeworld models don't revert back to shape).

But they also certainly don't melt.

They definitely warp, and don't have that great of memory

Unfortunately I can relate :(

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

They definitely warp, and don't have that great of memory

Unfortunately I can relate :(

I would have been very happy to learn this lesson without running an impromptu field test on $300 worth of FW Lightnings.

Anyone want some FW Lightnings? They only droop slightly!

Mr Mystery wrote:
Amen brother! Got the Sorceress, Necromancer and Tzeentch Sorceror so far. Each one has minimal mould lines (seriously, once deft scrape and they're gone) and are simply gorgeous.

MOAR PLS!

Even more in favour - these new ones are a beauty to convert up as well - easy to scrap, cut, shape....

Rather impressive plastics these.