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DarknessEternal wrote:

Oriallis wrote:The tyranid fleets we've seen are probably just the forerunners for the main force, like the tips of fingers on a grasping hand.

Codex Tyranids says Leviathan is the last of the Tyranids.

That's because the new codex is a terrible abomination of fluff (and rules too). The point of Tyranids is that they keep on coming and that you can only hold them off for so long. If they suddenly have the newest Hive Fleet, which the Imperium is actually starting to manage by the way, be the last one it makes the Tyranids almost as doomed as the Eldar. One Hive Fleet was already destroyed by a single Space Marine Chapter, another was splintered and rendered impotent by mainly a lot of Imperial Guard and now its canon that there's only one fleet left which is slightly bigger. Way to screw over the Tyranid players (such as me, I've been playing Tyranids since 2006).

End insane rant.

Grey Templar wrote:The Eldar havn't admitted their ultimate failure. they constantly accuse mankind of, going to be, doing stupid things, they attempt to interfere and end up causing the bad things themselves and then they scream and whine at the "foolish humans" for messing everything up.


Their visions do little good for them most of the time. The bad stuff happens despite their attempts to stop it(assassinating Angron didn't work out too well) and they never think to blame themselves. heck, the only eldar i have seen take the blame for anything was the Farseer in Dark Crusade.


They would actually serve themselves best if they stopped trying to fix the future. They should all find a nice little cluster of worlds on the eastern fringe and settle down. make an impenetrable defense of these systems and rebuild their empire of old. Become introverts, let the galaxy do what it will and stop interfering. Who cares if Joe guardsmen has a kid who one day becomes a Colonel who, when fighting orks, orders a Basilisk barrrage which happens to land on a couple lost soulstones. Don't kill Joe, go pick up the damn soulstones if you do anything.

You spoken truth brother, Eldar are my 2'nd favorite race in Warhammer 40000. I understand their pride and culture, but when it comes to pure survival you can't put your pride in front of it. Despite what they think of Humans, Humanity is more capable and understanding then Eldar in 40k and Macha is one of the few Eldar who saw that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LoneLictor wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Oriallis wrote:The tyranid fleets we've seen are probably just the forerunners for the main force, like the tips of fingers on a grasping hand.

Codex Tyranids says Leviathan is the last of the Tyranids.

That's because the new codex is a terrible abomination of fluff (and rules too). The point of Tyranids is that they keep on coming and that you can only hold them off for so long. If they suddenly have the newest Hive Fleet, which the Imperium is actually starting to manage by the way, be the last one it makes the Tyranids almost as doomed as the Eldar. One Hive Fleet was already destroyed by a single Space Marine Chapter, another was splintered and rendered impotent by mainly a lot of Imperial Guard and now its canon that there's only one fleet left which is slightly bigger. Way to screw over the Tyranid players (such as me, I've been playing Tyranids since 2006).

End insane rant.

Ok, but because it's the official material the fluff stands. If Codex Tyranids say that "Leviathan is the last of the Tyranids" then it is so until the next codex came out and fix that. You are right about everything else but few things:
-Behemoth was destroyed by Ultramarines + Macragge PDF + Merchant Fleet + Ultramrines fleet ( what was stationed there anyway ) + Segmentum Battlefleet from Bakka.
-The other fleet was destroyed by the Eldar at Iyanden, and it's remnant's was hunted down by Eldar and Imperial Guard together over several sectors.
-1/3 of Leviathan was destroyed at Tarsis Ultra. The rest of the Hive Fleet is going toward Terra and Baal.

And you are not the only one complaining about codex, we are all complaining about Blood Angels and Grey Knights. And Emperor help Black Templars in 5'th edition...

Nowhere in the Tyranid Codex does it say that Hive Fleet Leviathan is the last, or even the most recent of Hive Fleets. I don't know where you got this idea from.

Can someone quote it please? I'm also not sure if this exists. I'll be horrified if it is though.

yeah, if the codex says that, ill have to pimp slap somebody, because even though I dont like the nids, i do think they add to the grimdark of 40k in a very nice(depressing) way

Pg 28, first sentence.

thats very depressing...need a nids dex...

DarknessEternal wrote:Pg 28, first sentence.

You honestly can't see the difference between latest and last?

IMO the Eldar being portrayed as suicidal arrogants is more bad writing than actually Eldar "style".

The whole point of Eldar manipulating others is because they know they can't face things head on, not to mention it contradicts the whole "doomed race struggling to survive" thing.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Pg 28, first sentence.

You honestly can't see the difference between latest and last?

It says "last" though, not latest.

Wow, that is, really pathetic. I never even noticed that, it might be accidental, but the wording does imply that Leviathan is the last Hive Fleet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:Ok, this is going nowhere. So I will not continue, and I will say that you are right about some parts - but wrong at others. We simply don't know to much about the Tyranids to even assume they send Behemoth to"test" the galaxy. For all that we know - those 3 major Hive Fleets may be the entire Tyranid race... and those smaller that enter the galaxy just remnants of them... We won't know until next Tyranid codex comes out. And while Imperium and Eldar suffer Heavy losses they rebuild in short time ( 100 years for Ultra, Eldar are still rebuilding dough ).

And Necron Lords and Immortals represent those Controllers I mentioned earlier. While most of their race is brain-dead those few that remained sane are still servant's of the C'Tan. So even they don't have mind of their own ( but again who knows? Matt Ward has given them conciseness in Blood Angels Codex, maybe the new edition will represent them in a better light and maybe they will start thinking for themselves again ).

And my final word on the subject: Eldar and Humans are 2 most arrogant races in the galaxy. Humans because of the situation and Eldar because it is in their nature to put pride on top of survival...

No I am largely right I am afraid. Tyranids have utilised strategies like attacking supply lines, luring armour into narrow passageways for a Carnifex ambush, utilising burrowing creatures to ambush behind enemy defenses, and of course, its use of expendable creatures to waste enemy ammunition, and even clog artillery with their bodies. The Hive Mind is intelligent, even the recent codex emphasizes that. That said, Leviathan being the last Hive Fleet is... Stupid, and contradicts earlier fluff. Oh, and the Eldar certainly CANNOT replenish two lost Craftworlds in a short time.

Um, okay? They serve the C'Tan, but they do so gladly, they have personalities, they have a will, the Immortals and Lords chose to enter sevitude in Necrodermis, they do have distinct consciousnesses and wills. Also, Nightbringer in particular does not actively lead or direct Necrons that often, they have ALWAYS thought for themselves, willingly serving their gods of their own accord.

Kay.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Pg 28, first sentence.

You honestly can't see the difference between latest and last?

You should consult a dictionary. Those two words are not synonyms.

In classsical Greek tragedy, as described under Sophocles' theory of theater, hubris (i.e. arrogance) is always the founding cause behind tragedy. As Greek theater's influence touched several others (including Shakespeare), it comes as little surprise that arrogance plays such a central role in military dramas...

Couldn't quite believe after going back and reading the codex through. It has to poor use of the word, meaning Leviathan is the most recent Tyranid Hive Fleet, as every other section in the Codex that pertains to the strength of the Tyranids indicates that there are a lot more Hive Fleets lurking in the void.

EDIT: Ironically, indigo, I think my response to SlavetoDarkness may be a prime example of hubris. I honestly refused to believe GW could make such a mistake (and now refuse to believe it was anything other than a mistake).

Emperors Faithful wrote:Couldn't quite believe after going back and reading the codex through. It has to poor use of the word, meaning Leviathan is the most recent Tyranid Hive Fleet, as every other section in the Codex that pertains to the strength of the Tyranids indicates that there are a lot more Hive Fleets lurking in the void.

EDIT: Ironically, indigo, I think my response to SlavetoDarkness may be a prime example of hubris. I honestly refused to believe GW could make such a mistake (and now refuse to believe it was anything other than a mistake).

I asked a friend to check his codex for and he said it does indeed say last and not latest, although he said it is not in the context people here are saying.

Polvilhovoador wrote:
I asked a friend to check his codex for and he said it does indeed say last and not latest, although he said it is not in the context people here are saying.

Last doesn't have a context. Last doesn't allow for ambiguity, it's definition is absolute.

Making Tyranids the least threatening faction in the setting was probably not their intention though, but that's exactly what that passage means until some new source of background retcons it again.

Last can mean Latest, in varying forms.

Only in certain usages where it is clearly being used in that context. this isn't one of them.

Saying Last in an absolute with no ambiguity is wrong, there's plenty of room depending on the context. In this context, if it says, "Leviathan is the last of the Hive Fleets..." (Not sure if this is the right wording), it could mean it is the latest to arrive, that's perfectly possible. From the tone I get. it seems as if he meant the absolute final fleet to arrive.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Polvilhovoador wrote:
I asked a friend to check his codex for and he said it does indeed say last and not latest, although he said it is not in the context people here are saying.

Last doesn't have a context. Last doesn't allow for ambiguity, it's definition is absolute.

Making Tyranids the least threatening faction in the setting was probably not their intention though, but that's exactly what that passage means until some new source of background retcons it again.

Anyway, I do not have access to the codex, so I relying on my friend on this one, he said last in this means merely "last of the hive fleets cited in this book" or even "last of the hive fleets known".

"At the close of the 41st Millennium, the last and greatest of the Hive Fleets descended upon the galaxy."

So it is the last then. Wow.

There could be an organization level of Tyranids above the Hive Fleet.

Hopefully it means last we're going to mention or something, because otherwise Tyranids are ed

the tone i got from the quote is that it was the last one to arrive to date and it is the greatest one yet. if GW got rid of the nids after all this time, they would be fething stupid.

i think theres still more comin

Nids arn't boned if this is the last fleet, which it is until further retcon.


if a fleet is destroyed and any Biomorphs survive on a planet, they will slowely take over the ecosystem and eventually rebuild the hive fleet. it may take a few centuries, but it can be done.

the Nids are here to stay, as a threat much like the orks. they will rise, be defeated and then rise again, always failing to be victorious, but always a thorn in the IoMs side.

DarknessEternal wrote:"At the close of the 41st Millennium, the last and greatest of the Hive Fleets descended upon the galaxy."

I kind of get the feeling it may be poor wording on Cruddace's part.

If not, lol.

weather or not it was intended to be like that may never be known, but as it is it is clear that is the last fleet.

Grey Templar wrote:weather or not it was intended to be like that may never be known, but as it is it is clear that is the last fleet.

No, it's not. As it is, with the rest of the codex taken into account, that sentence is extremely ambiguous. It could be saying the Hive Fleet Leviathan is the most recent, and so far the largest, Hive Fleet to have enroached upon the Milky Way. Every other passage in the codex indicates that there are a lot more Tyranids out there than we've so far seen.

Emperors Faithful wrote:It could be saying the Hive Fleet Leviathan is the most recent,

It does say it's the most recent. It also says there are no more after it.

"Last" and "latest" are not synonyms like you assume they are.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:It could be saying the Hive Fleet Leviathan is the most recent,

It does say it's the most recent. It also says there are no more after it.

"Last" and "latest" are not synonyms like you assume they are.

Hurhur.

http://thesaurus.com/browse/last

Definition: final; newest

Synonyms: aftermost, antipodal, at the end, bitter end, climactic, closing, concluding, conclusive, crowning, curtains, definitive, determinate, determinative, end, ending, endwise, eventual, extreme, far, far-off, farthest, finishing, furthest, hindmost, lag, latest, least, lowest, meanest, most recent, once and for all, outermost, rearmost, remotest, supreme, swan song, terminal, ulterior, ultimate, utmost, uttermost

Hyuckhyuckhyuckhyuckhyuck.