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I played this list today but swapped out the berzerkers and the defiler and a prince for a LR, Abadon and 4 terminators with LC. Played agains GK. I lost to kill points as objectives tied. I am going to try this list to a T next.

Post a quick summary of the tourney here, what tactics you used against aech army there. Are there any things you might want to change with regards to the army list?

The battle was in fact epic and I will be uploading all the photos onto Flicker for easy retrieval!

Sorry I havent been posting much. Been working a lot, and in the process of moving, so my life is pretty damn busy, lol.

FYI, each match had a different primary objective, but all secondary objectives were the same. Each player had a "keg" carried with an infantry squad of their choice, one per side. To take your opponents keg, you had to break or kill the squad carrying it and then be within 2 inches of it. Bonus points were also given for killing more HQs than you lost, and destroying your opponents most expensive unit.

Round 1- Space Wolves, 2 objectives.

Pretty standard fare. 3 squads of Grey Hunters with melta guns+combi melta wolf guard in rhinos, 2 squads of 6 missile launcher long fangs, 2 rune priests, dreadnought with Lascannon/Missile Launcher, and a land raider full of bloodclaws with a wolf priest and a DOUBLE POWERFIST WIELDING WOLF GUARD!!! Sorry, thought that part was cool, haha. I managed to focus fire on his long fangs, killing them over the course of the first couple turns. Blood claw blob turned one of my daemon princes into pudding, and in turn were hacked apart by my Berzerkers. I got full points on this one, and came pretty close to tabling him, even though I suffered some heavy losses.

Round 2- Daemons, Kill Points

This is the battle report. It'll be up by weeks end, so I don't want to divulge all the details. In the end, he beat me by 1 kill point, but I had him on Victory Points and had claimed all of the secondary objectives, so I came out a little bit ahead.

Round 3- Space Marines (imperial fists), Claiming Table Quarters

His list, while unconventional, was pretty damn cool, and his army was BEAUTIFULLY painted. Like, Heavy Metal beautiful. He was running Lysander with Assault Terminators in a Land Raider redeemer, along side a scout squad, tac squad in a rhino, predator, vindicator, 2 land speeder typhoons, and a second landraider godhammer (empty). I siezed after denying a flank, leaving lysander out in the open. and kind of crunched his army up from one side, eventually sweeping him. Lysander, however, refused to die (he was carrying the keg), and managed to kill a rhino, a squad of plague marines, a squad of khorne berzerkers, and 2 obliterators. I won, but couldnt get full points because Lysander decided to kick my entire army in the teeth.

Cannot wait to try this myself!

So... I'm at a crossroads. On the one hand, I have over 4,000 points of Chaos Space Marines of assorted gods and legions, collectively forming the black legion, and now I have to ask... is it time to walk away from chaos for a while and continue expanding my burgeoning army of Crimson Fists? Or should I flip the bird to the Loyalist scum and expand my chaos army until we get a new codex, at which point I will CONTINUE to expand?

I'm leaning towards the latter, thanks to another dakka-ite, but I'm looking to all of you for advice now as well.

th3maninblak wrote:So... I'm at a crossroads. On the one hand, I have over 4,000 points of Chaos Space Marines of assorted gods and legions, collectively forming the black legion, and now I have to ask... is it time to walk away from chaos for a while and continue expanding my burgeoning army of Crimson Fists? Or should I flip the bird to the Loyalist scum and expand my chaos army until we get a new codex, at which point I will CONTINUE to expand?

I'm leaning towards the latter, thanks to another dakka-ite, but I'm looking to all of you for advice now as well.

You could do both at the same time, buy 2 things of Chaos to 1 thing of Fists or something like that. Part of the hobby is collecting after all.

If that's not an option I would stick with Chaos for a few reasons, new book coming soon and will probably be over the top. You seem a lot more passionate about Chaos. At the end of the day it is a game/hobby after all it comes down to having fun. Less people at our FLGS play Chaos. This is of course is IMHO.

th3maninblak wrote:Sorry I havent been posting much. Been working a lot, and in the process of moving, so my life is pretty damn busy, lol.

FYI, each match had a different primary objective, but all secondary objectives were the same. Each player had a "keg" carried with an infantry squad of their choice, one per side. To take your opponents keg, you had to break or kill the squad carrying it and then be within 2 inches of it. Bonus points were also given for killing more HQs than you lost, and destroying your opponents most expensive unit.

Round 1- Space Wolves, 2 objectives.

Pretty standard fare. 3 squads of Grey Hunters with melta guns+combi melta wolf guard in rhinos, 2 squads of 6 missile launcher long fangs, 2 rune priests, dreadnought with Lascannon/Missile Launcher, and a land raider full of bloodclaws with a wolf priest and a DOUBLE POWERFIST WIELDING WOLF GUARD!!! Sorry, thought that part was cool, haha. I managed to focus fire on his long fangs, killing them over the course of the first couple turns. Blood claw blob turned one of my daemon princes into pudding, and in turn were hacked apart by my Berzerkers. I got full points on this one, and came pretty close to tabling him, even though I suffered some heavy losses.

Round 2- Daemons, Kill Points

This is the battle report. It'll be up by weeks end, so I don't want to divulge all the details. In the end, he beat me by 1 kill point, but I had him on Victory Points and had claimed all of the secondary objectives, so I came out a little bit ahead.

Round 3- Space Marines (imperial fists), Claiming Table Quarters

His list, while unconventional, was pretty damn cool, and his army was BEAUTIFULLY painted. Like, Heavy Metal beautiful. He was running Lysander with Assault Terminators in a Land Raider redeemer, along side a scout squad, tac squad in a rhino, predator, vindicator, 2 land speeder typhoons, and a second landraider godhammer (empty). I siezed after denying a flank, leaving lysander out in the open. and kind of crunched his army up from one side, eventually sweeping him. Lysander, however, refused to die (he was carrying the keg), and managed to kill a rhino, a squad of plague marines, a squad of khorne berzerkers, and 2 obliterators. I won, but couldnt get full points because Lysander decided to kick my entire army in the teeth.

Save your money mate and buy lots of shiny things in the summer when chaos come to play, the more ca$h you have the more awesomeness you can buy

I agree with Brother at this point chaos will be getting new models more and likely when the codex comes out so i would save money for the new stuff. Only things i would buy are Oblits because you only have 4 and 9 is the fun place to be, also i dont see them getting worse in the next codex. and possibly a greater daemon because it gives more options for the list you have now.

I would stick with Chaos for a few reasons, new book coming soon and will probably be over the top. You seem a lot more passionate about Chaos. At the end of the day it is a game/hobby after all it comes down to having fun. Less people at our FLGS play Chaos. This is of course is IMHO.

I agree with this

I know I'm new, but maybe my thought process will help you. I ended up caving, and going with a Blood Angels army instead of CSM. The reason for this is, as a new player, I wanted an army I could learn with that I didn't have to struggle to win with. A friend pointed out to me that if I continually lost to 5e armies, I may get frustrated and quit.

The other reason is with all the rumors flying around, it seems like I'd have to buy quite a bit more with the potential of things being replaced, such as Khorne Berzerkers with jump packs. Also, if the new codex focuses on Legions, I might have to start over with my army anyway, because I would want to go with a specific Legion.

That said, I'm brand new to WH40K, so my advice probably doesn't carry much weight. I just think it'd be a disadvantage to sinking money into something that may or may not be worthwhile in the future.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you all are right. I've got 2 more things to snag for my Crimson Fists army to get it to 1750, and then I'll just save up money for Chaos Legions. Also, as for Crash, Welcome to 40k! And you should have went with chaos, my friend

You seem to be pretty well covered chaos wise already. For me, I might just get a few more small things, nothing too major, and I should be set until the new book comes out too.

I am not so worried actually. I think fast attack options should be getting at least one decent option, so since I have none of that for now. Can just wait. Other stuff like Defilers, heavy support stuff will always be needed. Its good to have variety anyway.

I'm unable to quote on my touchPhone but I disagree about chaos marines basic sucking. 10 with 2 melts and fist with undivided icon is expensive but in the pAst I have found to be a lot better at assault in a rhino. Sure they lack f p and toughness but having dual lashing winged sorcerers join two squads of outflanking chosen is dangerously effective and denies your opponent easy killops as they are ics. My army I'm working on has about 65 models in 1850 and they are all basic besides sorcerers and obis

th3maninblak wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty sure you all are right. I've got 2 more things to snag for my Crimson Fists army to get it to 1750, and then I'll just save up money for Chaos Legions. Also, as for Crash, Welcome to 40k! And you should have went with chaos, my friend

Thanks! I still plan to. I just want to get a playable BA list first, so I can start learning. For Chaos, I already have a CSM squad, Rhino, and Terminators.

if he is playing Blood Angels he will be spending a ton of cash on tanks! lolz

I know I'm coming in late in the game here but I'd just like to mention that this list is incredibly solid.

I also agree with the OP's argument for a defiler. Oblits are awesome but spamming 3 squads of them is not the answer. I typically run either a defiler or a vindicator to help deal with heavy infantry. PC's just don't kill nobz and paladins.

Sadly the current CSM codex doesn;t really leave us with many options as to what to field. I own every model in the codex and have tried all of them, the standard tourney lists are that way for a reason. It's not about good or bad it's about efficiency

Pretty solid list.
Only trouble I think you would have is with dark eldar. Poison weapons would destroy your daemons and oblits. Vipers and the usual lance spam would wreck your rhino's and squads.
But only dark eldar. You could handle anything else fair easily I think

daBIGboss wrote:Pretty solid list.
Only trouble I think you would have is with dark eldar. Poison weapons would destroy your daemons and oblits. Vipers and the usual lance spam would wreck your rhino's and squads.
But only dark eldar. You could handle anything else fair easily I think

Dark Eldar is a tough match, but poisoned 4+ weapons do almost nothing against Plague Marines, and very little against oblits. My daemons, on the other hand, die horribly.

And I agree that the CSM codex has few viable options, at least compared to other books. But those options that we have are absolutely nuts.

I will agree with you for sure there, CSM can def be competetive with the right player behind them. The problem with having limited options is that you lose any element of suprise

Both DE and GK typically give me the worst trouble, but both are beatable.

Defeatmyarmy wrote: I'm unable to quote on my touchPhone but I disagree about chaos marines basic sucking. 10 with 2 melts and fist with undivided icon is expensive but in the pAst I have found to be a lot better at assault in a rhino. Sure they lack f p and toughness but having dual lashing winged sorcerers join two squads of outflanking chosen is dangerously effective and denies your opponent easy killops as they are ics. My army I'm working on has about 65 models in 1850 and they are all basic besides sorcerers and obis

I do agree the Csm are not Sucky. And the 2 Sorcerers join to the outflanking units is dangerously effective because you're Cheating!!!! and your opponent needs to learn that if you join the Sorcerer with that unit it loses the Outflank USR. (Note the * next to Outflank in the RuleBook)

Who wrote:

Defeatmyarmy wrote: I'm unable to quote on my touchPhone but I disagree about chaos marines basic sucking. 10 with 2 melts and fist with undivided icon is expensive but in the pAst I have found to be a lot better at assault in a rhino. Sure they lack f p and toughness but having dual lashing winged sorcerers join two squads of outflanking chosen is dangerously effective and denies your opponent easy killops as they are ics. My army I'm working on has about 65 models in 1850 and they are all basic besides sorcerers and obis

I do agree the Csm are not Sucky. And the 2 Sorcerers join to the outflanking units is dangerously effective because you're Cheating!!!! and your opponent needs to learn that if you join the Sorcerer with that unit it loses the Outflank USR. (Note the * next to Outflank in the RuleBook)

Good catch!

You're Welcome...

LOLZ

The MoK princes will go down to small arms fire easily.The Zerkers have to go in a rhino or else they'll get shredded, you need to have Nurgle or Lash princes or else they kinda suck...

I don't know how Chaos Space Marines would come out with more models because some of them are SOOOO PRETTY! However, I can see why putting them aside is an attractive thing to do! It's hard to keep up competitively with some of theses new codexes, without being full of cheese. In my opinion, I've poured my soul into making a competitive list with a beautiful black legion scheme and REFUSE to replace it. I would say, stick with chaos and the gods will reward you greatly. The rumors of our codex are starting to surface, but only time will tell what gets fixed. Hoping, it starts with our Lords, tanks, bikes, summoned demons, and AIR SUPPPPPORT! Legion for life!

I ran a very different shooty syle list the other day from this one, and it still worked out ok. I was quite happy. Its a change from something that looks very tourney style.

HQ: Sorceror with warptime.

Troops: 4 squads of 10 CSM, 1 lascannon each, in 4 Rhinos. (no other upgrades).

Troop: 7 Khorne Berzerkers, no upgrades. (in LR)

Elite: 3 Chaos Termis, 1 combi flamer, 1 reaper autocannon.

Heavy support: 1 Landraide, 1 tri las predator, 1 Defiler.

I had a LOT of lascannon shooting. And when they got close, they were surprised by 40 CSM and 1 squad of Zerkers led by the Sorceror countercharging them.

The basic sorceror lord, with force sword, pistol, and warptime, is a pretty mean combat monster. Put him in a zerker sqaud and that squad will munch through most things in close combat.

I placed my Defiler behind my LR so that it would get a cover save. And my LR stood there and shot for many turns. Only when opponent got close, then I charged it forward, unloaded my zerkers, and charged them. So, I got maximum use out of my LR.

My Defiler also got maximum usage. It shot for at least 4 turns, after which it fleet forward and charged into an assault terminator squad. Took down a special charecter before those storm hammers killed it too.

All in all, very happy with this new more shooty list. I still have a variant of the list the OP posted. That would be the one that charges forward first round with 5 Rhinos and 2 Daemon Princes.

Eldenfirefly wrote:I ran a very different shooty syle list the other day from this one, and it still worked out ok. I was quite happy. Its a change from something that looks very tourney style.

HQ: Sorceror with warptime.

Troops: 4 squads of 10 CSM, 1 lascannon each, in 4 Rhinos. (no other upgrades).

Troop: 7 Khorne Berzerkers, no upgrades. (in LR)

Elite: 3 Chaos Termis, 1 combi flamer, 1 reaper autocannon.

Heavy support: 1 Landraide, 1 tri las predator, 1 Defiler.

I had a LOT of lascannon shooting. And when they got close, they were surprised by 40 CSM and 1 squad of Zerkers led by the Sorceror countercharging them.

The basic sorceror lord, with force sword, pistol, and warptime, is a pretty mean combat monster. Put him in a zerker sqaud and that squad will munch through most things in close combat.

I placed my Defiler behind my LR so that it would get a cover save. And my LR stood there and shot for many turns. Only when opponent got close, then I charged it forward, unloaded my zerkers, and charged them. So, I got maximum use out of my LR.

My Defiler also got maximum usage. It shot for at least 4 turns, after which it fleet forward and charged into an assault terminator squad. Took down a special charecter before those storm hammers killed it too.

All in all, very happy with this new more shooty list. I still have a variant of the list the OP posted. That would be the one that charges forward first round with 5 Rhinos and 2 Daemon Princes.

I'd run Auto/Las Predators over tri las, and I'd double up on them as the defiler kinda sticks out in that list. Only other change I'd make is add a champ with a fist to the zerker squad. Other than that, the warptime sorcerer is a cheap and effective HQ choice when you just need a dude to fill the slot, and the list looks ok.

Also, I've been working on a modified version of a CSM list that was posted on Bell of Lost Souls a while back called "The Blood Parade". It involves Abaddon and Kharn in a landraider, which sounds absurd, but when you consider that space wolves invest tons of points in wolfstars, Grey Knights have absurdly costed paladin squads, and even necrons have 20 man bricks of warriors+Independent characters, it doesn't seem so crazy. It might even work. List to come shortly.

Also, the tactica is about half done, and I'm working on the wrightup for the bat-rep, but chrismas, work, moving and being sick have all taken priority. Sorry for the delay, folks

Good Job on your Win today against the Eldar!

So im thinking about swapping the dozer blades on the zerker rhino and the defiler for 5 havocs with 4 autocannons. Thoughts?