Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well I tried your list today and after several years of not playing I won 2 (IG and Nids) and lost 1 (Nurgle). With the lose I could not destroy his LR and I forgot that rhinos can now contest objectives. I like the list but the defiler almost did nothing the whole game. I might change out the defiler for 2 more oblites.

thevirus wrote:Well I tried your list today and after several years of not playing I won 2 (IG and Nids) and lost 1 (Nurgle). With the lose I could not destroy his LR and I forgot that rhinos can now contest objectives. I like the list but the defiler almost did nothing the whole game. I might change out the defiler for 2 more oblites.

How did you try to use the Defiler? He's not a gun platform by any means. Tell me about your tactics, and I'm glad the list worked out for you!

The Defiler has to shoot and move and maybe try and draw some fire from where it really matters

Well the defiler was a fire magnet.

1st game: It wasn't destroyed until the 4th by melta from the rear. He came in the second round.

2nd game: It survived the game and never reached hand to hand,,just used him as a firing platform.

3rd game: Died 3rd round to a carnie.

I guess having that big pie plate helps but are there really alot of horde armies out there? I really never the chance to bring it into h2h so maybe to more oblites will help.

By it being a fire magnet it keeps shots away from all of your other units, people hate defilers because they can be sick nasty

I'm usually constantly moving mine forward, taking shots with the battle cannon until I can fleet/assault. That's the trick, you have to keep forward momentum with basically everything in this army (aside from oblits).

Objective placement is usually pretty critical with this army. Placing most/all of the objectives on your opponents side of the table is a fantastic choice, as you'll be headed that way anyways.

Well when I originally posted (on page 1) I was a non believer. Sadly, it took a switch to Space Wolves to get me to see the light ironically. I built a laser-back spam list, with high mobility and a whole bunch of STR 8 (or better) spam. After seeing the success I had with that, I dusted off my CSM and built a list at 2500 (high I know, but thats the level the league at my LGS is playing at) and I am wicked excited to try it.

What do you think of small noise marine troop squads? You can milk more fire power, but they are about 30% more expensive. Not a big problem at 2500, I am thinking I might get more bang for my buck over the PM units.

Thoughts?

I dont see a huge problem with noise marines at that point level, but there are better options. Im currently at work, so I cant post the 2500 point version of this list, but I will say that it's pretty nuts. At such a high point level, all the minor overcosts in the codex dont matter nearly as much.

Also, would you all like me to work on a full CSM tactica article?

Absolutely.

Has anyone ever tried this tactic? (Probably better in a higher point game).

Have chosen with a heavy weapons (maybe missile launcher or lascannon), plus 4 plama guns and a few more bodies to take wounds. Since they can infiltrate, put them either on opponents side, or midfield in some cover.

This way, you have a big juicy "fire" base already set up, which can't really be ignored. If they take the bait and try and assult or attack it, then they are moving their army forward, which is exactly what you want because your army is also advancing en masse.

Anyone think that will work well with this army list's concept?

Sounds doable

A friend of mine has been experimenting with 5 man autocannon chosen squads for some time, but 110 points for a multi wound autocannon sounds pretty bad. Likewise, your build would run around 180 points, not counting extra dudes, which is far too much for an army that is already (rightfully) investing alot of points in HQ, heavy support and troops. But your idea did get me thinking... What if we combine the two?

-5x Chaos Chosen (140 points)
1x autocannon
2x plasma gun

Thats pretty cheap for 4-6 str 7 shots that infiltrate. would I take this over a squad of plague marines or oblits? Nope. But this is definitely an option once our precious heavy support slot is maxed out. Good idea, eden. It just needed to be refined.

I vote yes on issue should you build a CSM tactica

th3maninblak wrote:A friend of mine has been experimenting with 5 man autocannon chosen squads for some time, but 110 points for a multi wound autocannon sounds pretty bad. Likewise, your build would run around 180 points, not counting extra dudes, which is far too much for an army that is already (rightfully) investing alot of points in HQ, heavy support and troops. But your idea did get me thinking... What if we combine the two?

-5x Chaos Chosen (140 points)
1x autocannon
2x plasma gun

Thats pretty cheap for 4-6 str 7 shots that infiltrate. would I take this over a squad of plague marines or oblits? Nope. But this is definitely an option once our precious heavy support slot is maxed out. Good idea, eden. It just needed to be refined.

Yeah, that's why I said probably better only for higher point games. But once we have maxed out on our heavy support, we can consider this to further help to pop those transports. Probably the squad like what you said is more efficient. It won't need a Rhino, because it can already set up 18.5 inches away from the oppoenet's army, which is already within range of the plama guns. I notice this army build doesn't really utilise the elite choices. So, in a high point game, where we have some points to spare, this can be a consideration, because the army list while looking very good, is just a bit light on anti-tank (at least until the melta gun guys and the daemon princes get into range).

Ultimately though, I have come o the realisation that CSM is just not that efficient in terms of long range anti-tank. So, even if we try and squeeze more out of our elite choices, we are fighting a losing battle. We should concentrate on our strengths, which are our good normal troops choices. I mean ... space marines can take their dreadnaughts for 2 twin linked autocannons loadout, and IG probably has even more efficient toys in their elites. No matter what we try and squeeze in from the elite department, we probably still won't match them long range wise, so we should accept that and focus on our other strengths.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

th3maninblak wrote:A friend of mine has been experimenting with 5 man autocannon chosen squads for some time, but 110 points for a multi wound autocannon sounds pretty bad. Likewise, your build would run around 180 points, not counting extra dudes, which is far too much for an army that is already (rightfully) investing alot of points in HQ, heavy support and troops. But your idea did get me thinking... What if we combine the two?

-5x Chaos Chosen (140 points)
1x autocannon
2x plasma gun

Thats pretty cheap for 4-6 str 7 shots that infiltrate. would I take this over a squad of plague marines or oblits? Nope. But this is definitely an option once our precious heavy support slot is maxed out. Good idea, eden. It just needed to be refined.

Yeah, that's why I said probably better only for higher point games. But once we have maxed out on our heavy support, we can consider this to further help to pop those transports. Probably the squad like what you said is more efficient. It won't need a Rhino, because it can already set up 18.5 inches away from the oppoenet's army, which is already within range of the plama guns. I notice this army build doesn't really utilise the elite choices. So, in a high point game, where we have some points to spare, this can be a consideration, because the army list while looking very good, is just a bit light on anti-tank (at least until the melta gun guys and the daemon princes get into range).

Ultimately though, I have come o the realisation that CSM is just not that efficient in terms of long range anti-tank. So, even if we try and squeeze more out of our elite choices, we are fighting a losing battle. We should concentrate on our strengths, which are our good normal troops choices. I mean ... space marines can take their dreadnaughts for 2 twin linked autocannons loadout, and IG probably has even more efficient toys in their elites. No matter what we try and squeeze in from the elite department, we probably still won't match them long range wise, so we should accept that and focus on our other strengths.

Exactly! As i've said before, Chaos Space Marines very well may be the strongest army within 12 inches. We cannot outshoot other armies at a long range (though we can hold our own with Defilers/Oblits), but we can withstand their shooting long enough to get in for close work. Additionally, their shooting against us is far less effective due to the abundance of T5+FNP or T6 dudes.

It all comes down to The Big 3, which is a two part concept. In this case, the relevant part of the concept is HQ, Troops, Heavy Support. These are the slots where the advantages of the CSM codex are most apparent, and as such, we need to take advantage of them before investing in anything else.

And man are those three spots powerful!

I just thought of something... As wierd as it sounds, this list needs a name. Other armies have razorspam, wolfstar, and fatecrusher, and this sure as hell isnt lashblitz. Any ideas?

th3maninblak wrote:I just thought of something... As wierd as it sounds, this list needs a name. Other armies have razorspam, wolfstar, and fatecrusher, and this sure as hell isnt lashblitz. Any ideas?

Boxed Plague army

Maybe something having to do with Triple Threat due to the Big 3 the list capitalizes on? ( HQ Troops HS)

12 inch nails?

Like you said, 12 inches is where this army shines. And because it has T5 and T6 stuff in a lot of it, its hard as nails. hee.

Or maybe just Rhino Blitz, since there's quite a lot of Rhinos. And Rhino Blitz sounds cooler than 12 inch nails.

Possibly. But the name is fairly unimportant. If anyone has a stroke of genius, then please feel free to post it :-)

In the mean time, the army is 100% painted and ready for the tournament. I'm planning on getting in a few final rounds of testing on Wednesday to make sure I'm confident with the list. I still need to get in a game against Grey Knights and Necrons if at all possible. Other than that, there's not much else I can do until the tournament on Saturday. I've also started working on a full scale tactica for Competitive CSM in 5th edition. I'm a couple pages in, and still have a long way to go. I know too damn much about this army...

Haha Go for it! I think the tactica would be really useful! Not to mention it will encourage long suffering CSM players who don't understand why CSM seems to be such a hard army to win with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or how about "MEQ Can Opener"! or Can Opener for short! It really shines against other MEQ armies, and its warptime DPs, meltas are specifically meant to "open" up armor like a can opener.

We can just call it "AIDS" as it is a disease army and usually always kills everything!

Cutthroatcure wrote:I will say that the Ork army you played was in fact cheese, and I will disagree with him being the best player(Just the one who spends the most time putting together broken lists lol)..I like the idea of this army list and I myself and interested in seeing what I can throw against this list come the tourney. Do I think i will win possibly not, but I do think you have a very good list and am excited to play. Very well done...I just think you may want to think about what you will do for Speedar cause they have always been a thorn in my side and we know for a fact they will be there.

Coming from an Ork player that ran a similar list, I take the fact I build broken lists as a compliment. It was a fun game with the OP however lady luck was most definitely with Nurgle.

If he's up for a rematch tomorrow I'll be there with my orks

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Cutthroatcure wrote:I will say that the Ork army you played was in fact cheese, and I will disagree with him being the best player(Just the one who spends the most time putting together broken lists lol)..I like the idea of this army list and I myself and interested in seeing what I can throw against this list come the tourney. Do I think i will win possibly not, but I do think you have a very good list and am excited to play. Very well done...I just think you may want to think about what you will do for Speedar cause they have always been a thorn in my side and we know for a fact they will be there.

Coming from an Ork player that ran a similar list, I take the fact I build broken lists as a compliment. It was a fun game with the OP however lady luck was most definitely with Nurgle.

If he's up for a rematch tomorrow I'll be there with my orks

I'm all for it, my friend. Luck wasn't so much on my side as AGAINST your Power Klaws, which still made a difference

I guess we'll see once and for all tomorrow!

And AIDS sounds like a pretty clever name, but probably too off color, lol.

Sounds like a plan, maybe we can take some pics and do up a little batrep.

How about the name Gangrene

That particular Ork list is now 24-1-1

If you have a camera, im down for a full scale report. Nice record, too. Our last game was pretty savage, so this should be interesting.

I hate your batttle wagon army JD. And by that, I mean hate Ben's battlewagon army. You should feel honored that who I'm assuming is Travis thinks of you so highly. But if I play Eldar this weekend, I'll actually have an army that can fight against it. Our game against my chaos deamons didn't count.

And for the record, I'm planning on doing a battle report to. WE SHOULD ALL DO ONE.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Cutthroatcure wrote:I will say that the Ork army you played was in fact cheese, and I will disagree with him being the best player(Just the one who spends the most time putting together broken lists lol)..I like the idea of this army list and I myself and interested in seeing what I can throw against this list come the tourney. Do I think i will win possibly not, but I do think you have a very good list and am excited to play. Very well done...I just think you may want to think about what you will do for Speedar cause they have always been a thorn in my side and we know for a fact they will be there.

Coming from an Ork player that ran a similar list, I take the fact I build broken lists as a compliment. It was a fun game with the OP however lady luck was most definitely with Nurgle.

If he's up for a rematch tomorrow I'll be there with my orks

You know that I have nothing but mad love for you JD, I just have trouble against your armies ;P

And I am totally down for battle Reps at the tourney this saturday...I can not wait to see you all!

Sigh, I don't know if its just my local scene. But everyone there is shooty crazy. Its like 6 dreadnaughts with all twin linked autocannons, or space wolf missile launcher spam, or IG with all their shooty vehicles and air force.

So, what are the tactics for this list against extreme shooty armies? Some shooting I am confident this list can handle. But like some of the examples I listed above ...