Mass Effect 3 Announced Origin Only

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**LordofHats**

Most EULAs offer a license, not a TOS.

They're kind of the same thing.

In fact the overwhelming majority of it isn't.

My problem isn't with people and they're little secrets its with this illusion that it's somehow unknowable. NOTHING you do on the internet (or on your computer for that matter) is private. Using the these things is like walking down a public street. Is it anyone's business to know? Not really. Can they find out anyway? Yes. Anyone who wants to find out what you're doing can find out, its just a question of how hard they're willing to work to get it.

EA is not increasing anyone's risk so why people throw their arms in the air and cry foul is a mystery to me.

**Melissia**

I don't disagree about the equivalence to walking down the street, but I do disagree that it is a good thing that EA is doing this.

**dogma**

BaronIveagh wrote:
He didn't as why they'd install it, he asked why they'd buy it.

For the purposes of this conversation they're essentially equivalent.

That ME3 box you bought at Best Buy isn't scanning your genetic code.

BaronIveagh wrote:
Most EULAs offer a license, not a TOS. The EULAs in ME2 and DA2, in their original install state, at no point mention a service. Just the terms of the licensing agreement.

A TOS is essentially a license, in both cases I, as the producer, can strip you of your right to use our product, or service, if you violate the outlined terms.

BaronIveagh wrote:
Which, BTW at no point give EA the right to turn them off remotely or mention EA's forums nor a code of conduct, though like all of them, they grant EA the right to change them at any time.

They do, however, require an EA account, and the TOS for an EA account notes that your account can be suspended for delinquent forum behavior.

If you engage in delinquent forum behavior, you do so at risk of losing access to the games you purchased.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:Not everything people are ashamed of or wish to keep private is illegal.

In fact the overwhelming majority of it isn't.

Sure, but its really just a question of reasonable security. If someone really wanted to see me in the shower, they could take a sledgehammer to my wall and accomplish such a feat. I'd rather they didn't see me in the shower, but I'm not so worried about it that I construct my walls out of steel.

Similarly, I don't really care if people see my browser history, as its all stuff I can comfortably, and easily justify to anyone important. The things I can't comfortably, or easily justify (mostly work related), is stuff I take additional security measures to protect.

**Melissia**

And you're saying the outcry against this is not a resonable measure to protect your privacy or something?

**LordofHats**

I think what Dogma and I have been saying most of this thread is that people are making a big deal out of something that's really not that big of a deal.

**Melissia**

Any encroachment upon my privacy is a big thing to me.

It's a good part of the reason I don't use Facebook, and don't give my real name out, or my real address.

**BaronIveagh**

Melissia wrote:Any encroachment upon my privacy is a big thing to me.

It's a good part of the reason I don't use Facebook, and don't give my real name out, or my real address.

Congratulations: welcome to the paranoid club.

If the company in question had a respectable reputation for confidentiality, security, and honesty with it's customers, I'd object to this sort of search. EA on the other hand has a reputation for cheating people, lying, and screwing up software. This is a really bad combo.

And, again, EA required an account, but AT THAT TIME, this WAS NOT the same as their forum accounts (which were, AND SUPPOSEDLY STILL ARE ACCORDING TO EA, two separate things). That came about ex post facto when EA decided to merge everything, supposedly resulting in an account train wreck.

Edit: speaking of EA and it's hypocrisy...

Spoiler:

**BaronIveagh**

I know I'm douible posting, but I just read this and thought it semi-topical:

http://kotaku.com/5878284/mass-effect-will-set-a-record-for-most-expensive-dlc

Just what it says on the tin.

**Lynata**

BaronIveagh wrote:I know I'm douible posting, but I just read this and thought it semi-topical:

http://kotaku.com/5878284/mass-effect-will-set-a-record-for-most-expensive-dlc

Just what it says on the tin.

lol, what kind of newspost is that?

They sell action figures that come with a code for some bonus content in the game, and this is what they make of it? For all we know the "bonus content" may be nothing more than a differently coloured uniform for the companion (which seems likely, given that each figure has its own DLC). For all we know, the bonus content may also be sold on the website directly (maybe even as a pack - like they already did with the appearance sets in ME2) but is simply free for anyone who buys these figures.

Talking about making a mountain out of molehills.

This is the equivalent of someone bitching about how he paid 20.000 dollars for his bubblegum because it came free with his new car.

**BaronIveagh**

"It is slightly randomized during the registration and could include powerful new weapons and new characters." - Bioware website

Doesn't sound like different uniforms to me, though granted, it could be sold on the site, that hasn't been made clear yet, though like several of the posters on Kotaku, I'm willing to be that some of it isn't.

The best part is it's apparently randomized, so what you want to get for DLC buying that $20 fig might not be what you get...

**Morathi's Darkest Sin**

Ah so Skylanders has started something in the industry.

I don't mind, I can see me grabbing some.

**dogma**

Melissia wrote:And you're saying the outcry against this is not a resonable measure to protect your privacy or something?

I'm saying that Origin is no greater threat to your privacy than Steam, neither of which I will allow to be on the computer that contains NDA data that could get me fired.

BaronIveagh wrote:
The best part is it's apparently randomized, so what you want to get for DLC buying that $20 fig might not be what you get...

At this point I really can't tell if you're being serious.

"ZOMG, a company is selling randomized commodities!"

Its also fairly ridiculous to claim that ME3 will set the record for expensive DLC, given that the entire premise is invalidated by, you know, the action figures.

BaronIveagh wrote:

And, again, EA required an account, but AT THAT TIME, this WAS NOT the same as their forum accounts (which were, AND SUPPOSEDLY STILL ARE ACCORDING TO EA, two separate things). That came about ex post facto when EA decided to merge everything, supposedly resulting in an account train wreck.

Edit: speaking of EA and it's hypocrisy...

Changing corporate contracts, in accordance with the stipulations of those contracts, is not hypocrisy.

The topic of the comic presents a good case for a charge of hypocrisy, what you're talking about is equivalent of Alanis Morissette "irony".

If you're going to complain about corporate "malfeasance" at least use the correct words.

**BaronIveagh**

dogma wrote:
At this point I really can't tell if you're being serious.

"ZOMG, a company is selling randomized commodities!"

Its also fairly ridiculous to claim that ME3 will set the record for expensive DLC, given that the entire premise is invalidated by, you know, the action figures.

I had to look up that link you posted, just to see what you were talking about. BTW: there's a big difference between buying a crate of random stuff that either is available as a drop or can be gained for free via some other means, and random DLC which may not be available via another means.

And I think you've been snorting GW's bs too long if you think that little plastic or resin men are automatically worth $20-$60 each because a company says they're clearly superior to metal. Further, stop and think for a moment about the target audience: these are for die hard ME fanboys who are looking for completion in their game (or a character they felt should be in it and was made DLC instead, which is my somewhat cynical take on this), not hard core TT fanboys who must own every mini ever. I know that I threw out the stupid figures that came with my CE ed of ToR and WAR, and to judge the number of them that flooded eBay, everyone else did too.

It's sort of like why people go to blizzcon. It's for the in game bling, not anything else.

**Lynata**

Well, I'm sure some people may be crazy enough to throw money at BioWare to have a chance at getting some random digital item they want. I've seen it work with my flatmate as well, though that was for the Jem'hadar attack ship in STO which you had a chance of getting from a box. But honestly, would you fault the company for trying to make money? Yes, it feels bad, but this is how capitalism works, and the gaming industry as a whole has grown up. No longer are companies like BioWare or Blizzard steered by enthusiastic idealists, now they have to listen to a multi-million publisher who has to reassure its investors that it is trying to maximize profits. Brave new world.

For what it's worth, I also never understood why people play the lottery - given the chances to actually make a profit there or win the car/yacht/vacation you're hoping for it's basically the same thing, really.

In the end, supply is defined by demand, which means that the players as a whole are directly responsible for the direction the market has taken. Don't like a ToU/EULA? Think that something is too pricey? Don't buy it. It's all about the breaking point, where you as an individual draw the line, and if enough people follow your example, the companies might even learn their lesson. Well, likely not, but this is just how big businesses are run.

And I'm still thinking that these random DLCs are meant as a promotion for the action figures, not the other way around.

**Morathi's Darkest Sin**

Heh, I've been a hardcore CCG player in the past, buying things on a random chance is hardly new.

Sadly I couldn't see the site in question earlier when I posted, seems at the moment this in NA only, which is a pity. Although hopefully that means we can just purchase the DLC in europe?

Who knows.

**Snarky**

Locclo wrote:I'm playing ME3 on PS3, so I couldn't care less.

Honestly, what's everyone's beef with Origin? I use it for other games (notably Spore, Darkspore, and Dragon Age) and I've never had issues with it.

It's because it's buggy and doesn't work as intended like Steam.

Honestly, I spend more time waiting in queue due to "Disconnected from EA online" and "Game Client error" or "Something went wrong" messages then actually playing the game.

Oh, and half the time I'm playing using Origin, it crashes and boots me from the game I'm currently playing WITHOUT saving. So yeah, it's a pretty darn bad system, so bad that I've actually given up playing games on Origin like Battlefield 3.

**dogma**

BaronIveagh wrote:
I had to look up that link you posted, just to see what you were talking about. BTW: there's a big difference between buying a crate of random stuff that either is available as a drop or can be gained for free via some other means, and random DLC which may not be available via another means.

You mean click on it?

Regardless, no, there isn't any difference as there is no way to gain the contents of a Supply Crate for free. If you had done any kind of research you would know this.

I imagine your whinge at the release of MtG was cacophonous.

BaronIveagh wrote:
And I think you've been snorting GW's bs too long if you think that little plastic or resin men are automatically worth $20-$60 each because a company says they're clearly superior to metal.

They're worth what people will pay, but that's beside the point. The key here is that the item being sold is the action figure, the DLC code is an ancillary bonus.

BaronIveagh wrote:
Further, stop and think for a moment about the target audience: these are for die hard ME fanboys who are looking for completion in their game (or a character they felt should be in it and was made DLC instead, which is my somewhat cynical take on this), not hard core TT fanboys who must own every mini ever.

Oh wow, that is an impressively thin hair you split.

BaronIveagh wrote:
I know that I threw out the stupid figures that came with my CE ed of ToR and WAR, and to judge the number of them that flooded eBay, everyone else did too.

Why would you assume that someone who wanted to profit from their limited edition collectors item had no interest in keeping it themselves?

**BaronIveagh**

dogma wrote:
Regardless, no, there isn't any difference as there is no way to gain the contents of a Supply Crate for free. If you had done any kind of research you would know this.

You might want to click around that wiki then, because it lists the odds of a given item dropping, and if you go to that items page, it also shows how to get it outside of one, such as Scottish Resistance being awarded for 17 demoman achievements or Your Eternal Reward being craftable...

dogma wrote:
I imagine your whinge at the release of MtG was cacophonous.

"Lord of the Pit started touring with his Heavy Metal band Snoddy. They're particularly popular at Monster Truck rallys where at the climax, Pitlord actually eats an entire minivan."

Your Scryb Sprites fail to beat my ball lightening-bloodlust-berserk-bolt first turn combo. An MtG card you don't want can be traded or sold to someone else for one you do, not doable with DLC codes, since the randomization occurs after you input the code, if I read this right. Meaning that you own it, regardless of if it was the one you want or not.

dogma wrote:
They're worth what people will pay, but that's beside the point.

For once we agree. Things are worth what people will pay for them, regardless of how dumb those people are or how greedy the seller is being.

dogma wrote:
Oh wow, that is an impressively thin hair you split.

Barbers like to toss them into the air and see how many I can split before they hit the floor.

**dogma**

BaronIveagh wrote:
You might want to click around that wiki then, because it lists the odds of a given item dropping, and if you go to that items page, it also shows how to get it outside of one, such as Scottish Resistance being awarded for 17 demoman achievements or Your Eternal Reward being craftable...

That's deflection. The argument was that Supply Crates are not accessible without payment, and that their contents are randomized.

BaronIveagh wrote:
An MtG card you don't want can be traded or sold to someone else for one you do, not doable with DLC codes, since the randomization occurs after you input the code, if I read this right. Meaning that you own it, regardless of if it was the one you want or not.

You own it in both cases. And in both cases your ownership can be rectified by transactions that follow from the original transaction (account trading).

BaronIveagh wrote:
Barbers like to toss them into the air and see how many I can split before they hit the floor.

And I'm sure they get so thin that only the imagination can properly conjure their image.

**BaronIveagh**

dogma wrote:
That's deflection. The argument was that Supply Crates are not accessible without payment, and that their contents are randomized.

The crates themselves, sure, they're not available without payment. The things that you get from them, however can be gotten by another means, which means that your comparison, while trite, was wholly inaccurate. You do not have to pay to get those items, so the fact they're random does not have remotely the same implications as this DLC business.

dogma wrote:
You own it in both cases. And in both cases your ownership can be rectified by transactions that follow from the original transaction (account trading).

Incorrect: while you do, in fact, own a MtG card, you cannot own a DLC (see EULA) NOR, at this juncture, can you do account trading in the manner you suggest (via Origin or any other EA service, without violating TOS), so, no, your situation CANNOT be rectified in this manner.

dogma wrote:
And I'm sure they get so thin that only the imagination can properly conjure their image.

They're much like super models in that way.

**dogma**

BaronIveagh wrote:
The crates themselves, sure, they're not available without payment. The things that you get from them, however can be gotten by another means, which means that your comparison, while trite, was wholly inaccurate. You do not have to pay to get those items, so the fact they're random does not have remotely the same implications as this DLC business.

You must pay to get those items (the items in the Crates). I don't know why this is a difficult concept. The items aren't unique, but then we don't know if the ME3 DLC included with these figures is unique. Tempest in a teapot, also phrased as "ZOMG!"

Also, your use of the word "trite" is hilariously trite.

dogma wrote:
Incorrect: while you do, in fact, own a MtG card, you cannot own a DLC (see EULA) NOR, at this juncture, can you do account trading in the manner you suggest (via Origin or any other EA service, without violating TOS), so, no, your situation CANNOT be rectified in this manner.

Right, you own a license to your DLC.

Also, yes, you can account trade. I do like the use capitalization though, it certainly lends your argument credence, and doesn't at all indicate a weak position.

**Joey**

Could never get into the first one. I felt it was trying really hard to make me bored. And the combat was dull as feth.

**BaronIveagh**

dogma wrote:
Also, yes, you can account trade. I do like the use capitalization though, it certainly lends your argument credence, and doesn't at all indicate a weak position.

"Unless expressly authorized by EA, you may not sell, buy, trade or otherwise transfer your Account or any personal access to EA Services, Content or Entitlements, including by use of auction websites." Section 2, EA ToS.

Dogma, I have to ask, do you ever get tired of trying so hard to troll, and falling on your face because you did not read, or are you one of those 'hope springs eternal' types that hopes your random post will get it right this time?

**dogma**

BaronIveagh wrote:
"Unless expressly authorized by EA, you may not sell, buy, trade or otherwise transfer your Account or any personal access to EA Services, Content or Entitlements, including by use of auction websites." Section 2, EA ToS.

Section 2?

2. Content

"Content" on EA Services includes software, technology, text, forum posts, chat posts, profiles, widgets, messages, links, emails, music, sound, graphics, pictures, video, code, and all audio visual or other material appearing on or emanating to and/or from EA Services, as well as the design and appearance of our websites. All Content--with the exception of third party content discussed below in Section 6--is owned by EA or its affiliates, subsidiaries, licensors or suppliers. Content includes user-generated Content ("UGC"). UGC includes but is not limited to Account personas, forum posts, chat posts, profile content and any other Content contributed by users to EA Services. EA Content and UGC collectively shall be referred to as "Content." EA does not pre-screen all UGC and does not endorse, approve, or prescreen any UGC that you and other users may contribute to EA Services. You bear the entire risk of the completeness, accuracy or usefulness of Content found on EA Services.

EA reserves the right (but has no obligation except as required by law) to remove, block, edit, move or disable UGC for any reason, including when EA determines that UGC violates these terms. The decision to remove UGC or other Content at any time is in EA's sole and final discretion. To the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, EA does not assume any responsibility or liability for UGC or for removal of, UGC or any failure to or delay in removing, UGC or other Content.

You are solely responsible for your UGC and may be held liable for UGC that you post.

Not that it matters, that particular phrase is, per Google, is an "at discretion" clause in the ToS for Origin. Which is to say, an open challenge.

BaronIveagh wrote:
Dogma, I have to ask, do you ever get tired of trying so hard to troll, and falling on your face because you did not read, or are you one of those 'hope springs eternal' types that hopes your random post will get it right this time?

No, I'm one of those smug "I'm smarter than you." types.

**BaronIveagh**

dogma wrote:
Section 2?

My mistake: Section 11 (EA's font made it look like II)

http://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBTERMS/US/en/PC/

I don't see a lot to be smug about, here, and absolutely no sign that you're smarter then me (better eyesight outside 16" perhaps). Your argument is still invalid, as trading DLC ('content') is still a listed violation of the ToS.

**Karon**

Preordered a CE copy a while ago. If all it does is improve on ME2, it WILL be the best game ever made.

Origin is a pain - an extreme one. I switched to W7 from Vista and now I can't play ME2 or BF3 due to some fething bugs that I don't have the time or patience to fix. Some bs with origin not even installing the proper files to start the game..misconfig error for ME2.

**Melissia**

Dunno, for all the spazzing out about it, I'm still not getting it unless it's on Steam. I don't want to ahve to manage several different download clients...

**BaronIveagh**

I figure that we'll have to wait for Origin to self destruct before we can have ME 3 without Origin...

**dogma**

BaronIveagh wrote:
I don't see a lot to be smug about, here, and absolutely no sign that you're smarter then me (better eyesight outside 16" perhaps).

Well, of course you don't.

BaronIveagh wrote:
Your argument is still invalid, as trading DLC ('content') is still a listed violation of the ToS.

No it isn't, it just requires EA's authorization.

**BaronIveagh**

dogma wrote:No it isn't, it just requires EA's authorization.

Which, as best as anyone on their forums was able to determine, has happened exactly never.

Also: MORE exclusive DLC has been announced via Barnes & Nobel.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/115461-Buy-Mass-Effect-Art-Book-Get-Free-DLC