Is the Tyranids lore "too boring"?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**-Loki-**

iGuy91 wrote:My take on the Swarmlord/Hive Mind, is one of a Strategic Command, and a Tactical Command. The Hive mind being more responsible for direction the movements of the swarms, whereas the Swarmlord is deployed when general, blanket tactics are not enough, and actual creativity is needed.

This would actually make sense if Cruddace didn't put that stupid 'there is only ever one Swarmlord' thing in its fluff. If it was a creatively thinking Hive Tyrant, that's fine. The problem is, it again (like the rest of Cruddaces fluff) shows a lack of comprehension of Tyranids. What good is one creatively thinking Hive Tyrant? Sure, it might help in that one localised battle - like the fight against Calgar, where it did things like make Hormagaunts 'play dead' to ambush the Honour Guard.

What about the hundreds of other planets the hive mind is attacking at the same time that likely have engagements just as difficult? Maybe even on the same planet? The Swarmlord is fine as a localised uber-general, but with only ever deploying one, it's next to useless in the grand scheme.

It really needs to be changed in 6th to be more of an upgraded Hive Tyrant.

**Soladrin**

Short anwser, no. Long anwser NOOOOO.

And I hate the new necron lore.

**Void__Dragon**

-Loki- wrote:This would actually make sense if Cruddace didn't put that stupid 'there is only ever one Swarmlord' thing in its fluff. If it was a creatively thinking Hive Tyrant, that's fine. The problem is, it again (like the rest of Cruddaces fluff) shows a lack of comprehension of Tyranids. What good is one creatively thinking Hive Tyrant? Sure, it might help in that one localised battle - like the fight against Calgar, where it did things like make Hormagaunts 'play dead' to ambush the Honour Guard.

What about the hundreds of other planets the hive mind is attacking at the same time that likely have engagements just as difficult? Maybe even on the same planet? The Swarmlord is fine as a localised uber-general, but with only ever deploying one, it's next to useless in the grand scheme.

It really needs to be changed in 6th to be more of an upgraded Hive Tyrant.

The Swarmlord could contain a lot of resources that could be better put to just making more gaunts or Carnifexes or whatever unless it is needed.

Though, yeah, theoretically I see no reason why multiple Swarmlords couldn't be deployed around the galaxy at the same time for special battles/wars, just not at the same battle due to redundancy.

**tantan628**

I've personally always liked the theory that the hive mind may actually be a c'tan who was banished from our galaxy. He then discovered the tyranids and returned with them supposedly either for revenge or so he could consume the stars of the galaxy.

I can't remember where I read this, and it is only a rumour and has nothing to really back it up, but I always really liked it.

**Void__Dragon**

Shame that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense though.

**Veteran Sergeant**

I don't think you can really make the Tyranid lore more exciting. People are either going to enjoy the idea of playing a slavering mass of space monsters, or they aren't. Tyranids are just the kind of army that will always exist as the nemesis of a story, not the protagonist. Honestly, the more they try to create "Special Characters" for the Tyranids, the dumber it gets.

**-Loki-**

tantan628 wrote:I've personally always liked the theory that the hive mind may actually be a c'tan who was banished from our galaxy. He then discovered the tyranids and returned with them supposedly either for revenge or so he could consume the stars of the galaxy.

I can't remember where I read this, and it is only a rumour and has nothing to really back it up, but I always really liked it.

Necron fanspank. Three main problems with this theory.

1. At least part of the Hive Mind interacts with the Warp - this is why the Shadow in the Warp sits in it.
2. C'tan and the warp don't play nice together.
3. Time. Tyranids would have been on their way here from the previous galaxy before the war in heaven even started (seriously - crossing the galactic void takes a long fething time), when C'tan were happy being star vampires.

This theory only works if you ignore parts of the fluff to make it work.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Void__Dragon wrote:The Swarmlord could contain a lot of resources that could be better put to just making more gaunts or Carnifexes or whatever unless it is needed.

Though, yeah, theoretically I see no reason why multiple Swarmlords couldn't be deployed around the galaxy at the same time for special battles/wars, just not at the same battle due to redundancy.

Not the same battle, which as you said, is redundant. But there's multiple fronts on the same planet that might require creative thinking.The Swarmlord only sees what's going on locally. If there's a battle just as important on another continent, the Swarmlords not going to be doing anything to help over there.

If they removed the 'there's only one' fluff and had them as the leaders of major battle fronts, it would fit the fluff a lot better. Though it does step on the toes of Hive Tyrants a bit.

**McNinja**

-Loki- wrote:
tantan628 wrote:I've personally always liked the theory that the hive mind may actually be a c'tan who was banished from our galaxy. He then discovered the tyranids and returned with them supposedly either for revenge or so he could consume the stars of the galaxy.

I can't remember where I read this, and it is only a rumour and has nothing to really back it up, but I always really liked it.

Necron fanspank. Three main problems with this theory.

1. At least part of the Hive Mind interacts with the Warp - this is why the Shadow in the Warp sits in it.
2. C'tan and the warp don't play nice together.
3. Time. Tyranids would have been on their way here from the previous galaxy before the war in heaven even started (seriously - crossing the galactic void takes a long fething time), when C'tan were happy being star vampires.

This theory only works if you ignore parts of the fluff to make it work.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Void__Dragon wrote:The Swarmlord could contain a lot of resources that could be better put to just making more gaunts or Carnifexes or whatever unless it is needed.

Though, yeah, theoretically I see no reason why multiple Swarmlords couldn't be deployed around the galaxy at the same time for special battles/wars, just not at the same battle due to redundancy.

Not the same battle, which as you said, is redundant. But there's multiple fronts on the same planet that might require creative thinking.The Swarmlord only sees what's going on locally. If there's a battle just as important on another continent, the Swarmlords not going to be doing anything to help over there.

If they removed the 'there's only one' fluff and had them as the leaders of major battle fronts, it would fit the fluff a lot better. Though it does step on the toes of Hive Tyrants a bit.

ignoring the C'tan thing, I thought tyranids had a relavtively fast method of travelling the local cluster? Or do those narvals or whatever not work intergalactically?

As for multiple Swarmlords, it would make a lot more sense than just one at any given time, as you said. However, rather than a super-hive tyrant, I always thought a super smart ultra synapse creature should be more like a zoanthrope than a tyrant. Or would that be the norn queens?

**-Loki-**

They work intergalactically, in that that means inside the galaxy. It works on taking them to a planet, not a system. The planet also suffers massive tectonic instability while they are travelling there via this method.

Since there's nothing documented about the enitre galaxy suffering from millions of years of years of tectonic instability. There's no evidence that this transferral works extragalactically. Even if it did work extragalactically, this method would still have been started before the war in heaven.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

McNinja wrote:As for multiple Swarmlords, it would make a lot more sense than just one at any given time, as you said. However, rather than a super-hive tyrant, I always thought a super smart ultra synapse creature should be more like a zoanthrope than a tyrant. Or would that be the norn queens?

That would be a Dominatrix. In fact, the 5th edition codex even says that when a Dominatrix is in the area, the forces in the area are far harder to defeat. The Swarmlord is like a Dominatrix's abilities in a Hive Tyrants body.

**Bloodfever**

I personally love the concept of Tyranids being almost like 'Zombies in Space' as it makes them seem so much more sinister but also makes them a very unique race to any others (especially since the necron changes). Yeah, ok, the lore may be very hollow, but thats also part of the charm, you can't give a face to the unrelenting faceless masses. It's thier niche and I expect is where alot of the appeal to tyranid collectors comes from.

**Frazzled**

Marik Law wrote:With the recent make-over of the Necrons and the reasoning behind such being that the armies were difficult to really customize and give the player a good feel of uniqueness and independence, it got me to thinking about another army which suffers from the same problem in their lore (though albeit maybe not in their rules) and it's led me to one question: are the Tyranids boring lore-wise?

While they are a cool looking army and there's lots of room to customize their colours and biomorphs, lore-wise there really isn't a lot that can set your army apart from other Tyranid armies as they all have the same drives and objectives and, not saying this to be offensive or anything, they tend to be fairly mindless in their all-consuming goals.

I thought about this problem long and hard, the only conclusion I could come up with is the "death" of the all-controlling hive mind and having the "fleets" controlled by some sort of hive individual (Norn Queens or something else). To me, this could open up much different behavior between the fleets of Tyranids. Where as some fleets could continue to act like the current Tyranids do (like locusts), some may seek to be less destructive and use conquered planets to grow and harvest supplies to fuel the on-going war-efforts (much like some species of ants or termites which grow fungus in their lair to consume), where as others may be open to cooperation or even just negotiation with other species. It would allow each player to make their hive/fleet their own without just having them fall into the territory of "consume and move on."

The reason I post this here is because I wanted to hear other people's constructive takes on the Tyranids. Do you think they're lore is restrictive or boring? Would they benefit more (or less) from the player being able to more freely give his hive its own personality and goals?

Discuss.

Dear great Pasta Being no just no.
The whole point of the nids are that they are alien. Its effectively a space virus with teeth coming at you. Why does every race have to be some sort of human stylized creation?

Tyranids are af orce of nature. Let them remain that way.

**McNinja**

-Loki- wrote:They work intergalactically, in that that means inside the galaxy. It works on taking them to a planet, not a system. The planet also suffers massive tectonic instability while they are travelling there via this method.

Since there's nothing documented about the enitre galaxy suffering from millions of years of years of tectonic instability. There's no evidence that this transferral works extragalactically. Even if it did work extragalactically, this method would still have been started before the war in heaven.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

McNinja wrote:As for multiple Swarmlords, it would make a lot more sense than just one at any given time, as you said. However, rather than a super-hive tyrant, I always thought a super smart ultra synapse creature should be more like a zoanthrope than a tyrant. Or would that be the norn queens?

That would be a Dominatrix. In fact, the 5th edition codex even says that when a Dominatrix is in the area, the forces in the area are far harder to defeat. The Swarmlord is like a Dominatrix's abilities in a Hive Tyrants body.

Actually, intergalactic means between galaxies, and intragalactic means within a galaxy. Like how we are already have intraplanetary travel (planes, cars, etc), but are trying to develop interplanetary travel.

Why would the Hive Mind produce two of what are essentially the same organism? If the Swarmlord MUST exist, it shouldn't have the same power as something else.

**Xyptc**

The Swarmlord is just a particularly ancient and clever Hive Tyrant. That's all there is to it.

If Tyrants are bonded to the Hive Mind very closely, and their minds can exist beyond physical death to retain experiences, then logically the Hive Mind will deploy Tyrants that have considerable experience with Orks when encountering Orks, and Tyrants that have considerable experience with Necrons when facing Necrons etc.

This is no different to the Hive Mind deploying Biovores when Hormagaunt swarms aren't enough, or driving Hive Guard to the front lines when faicing enemy armour.

If the swarms face a particularly tactically smart opponent, one of the resources it can deploy is the Swarmlord, which has a particular affinity for that sort of thing. I'm sure there are plenty of other Tyrants that are almost, if not just as capable as the Swarmlord. GW just decided to highlight this particular example.